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  #31  
Old 12-02-2008, 05:54 AM
vzon17 vzon17 is offline
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Originally Posted by Shamus View Post
An important thing to keep in mind is that the Club of Rome talked about this long ago--they said, in their own book that they put out ("The Coming Global Revolution" I believe), that they were struggling to come up with something to fight against that would unite all mankind and that man-made climate change would "fit the bill".

Also notice how the language has changed from "global warming" to "climate change"--this is no accident. They've gone from something easily disprovable to something more easily manipulable. Also interesting is that before the media started pushing this phony agenda is that they were saying we were going into another ice age.

Aye, swindle indeed.
Yeah back in the 70s in was a global cooling hysteria and talk of iceage all over the mass media. Amazing what a small temperature change can do to public opinion. Imagine if something really big changes. people will be stunned and flabberghasted. LOL
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  #32  
Old 12-02-2008, 11:30 PM
jibbguy jibbguy is offline
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If it's so "phony" why is there such a huge melt-off of permafrost, polar ice, and glaciers....? I'm afraid there really is no denying this. And there is historic evidence that it is not cyclic, at least not beyond Ice Age -kinda "cyclic".

See, that's why i spoke up about this video. People WANT very hard not to believe that these things are happening, now, in their life times. Anything they can find to discredit the reasons given they latch onto... However they are missing the point (...or perhaps are conveniently using the controversy to put it all out of their minds).

Do the reasons matter so much; compared to the event itself ? Something, that if ignored, would change the entire planet to a point where 100 years from now, it would be unrecognizable? Where billions die and constant wars are fought over the dwindling supplies of good land, food, and water...

If we started working on this now, we could build gigantic mirrors in space as "shades" to displace sunlight. We could build huge pipelines to bring that melt-off in Greenland and other places to the cities and farms where it is needed. We could build giant desalinization plants and turn deserts into wheat fields. We could pipe in sea water into desert basins creating lakes (which would increase rainfall down-wind from them). Creating all this may not help much; but it could just make the difference in the Balance.

What are we gonna tell our grandkids if we looked at the data, and still did nothing? Are you all willing to risk the consequences of doing nothing? Is it more convenient and comfortable to simply deny it? Are you so afraid of being wrong, that you will refuse to study these effects we are seeing carefully for yourself?

We must all answer those questions for ourselves in order to be honest and objecting about this subject. There are people on both sides who are using this for their own purposes; ignore them. Look at the data, read it and understand that what ever it is they tell you, or claim... There is only one important fact that really matters: The glaciers, polar packs, and permafrost are melting at unheard of rates; and nothing like this has been seen since the end of the 2nd-to-last ice age (..when ocean levels were at least 20 meters higher than now), well over 150,000 years ago.

We are now a "civilized", highly industrialized world for the most part. But our civilization is very fragile and depends on technology; and our technology depends on natural resources. The devastation we would see from 3 meter ocean rise would be catastrophic in the extreme. The oceans' eco-systems would not survive this; the pollution unleashed when most of our major cities are drowned would be overwhelming. If we lose the oceans, we can forget it... we're doomed as a species.

CO2 is the red herring that is allowing the "whale" to be ignored. For whatever reason.. Global warming IS happening.
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  #33  
Old 12-03-2008, 02:39 PM
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I read that the artic has increased its ice by 30% last year.

But we surely must do something and that is jailing the criminal gang that govern us. I don't mean Bush or the next puppet. I mean the string pullers: CFR, bilderberg, Club of Rome, etc.
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  #34  
Old 12-05-2008, 09:40 AM
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Everything's Cool 2007 DVDRip XviD-VoMiT, global warming

For the past two decades researchers, activists, scientists, and progressive politicians have struggled to rouse the public and the federal government to take action on global warming. Concurrently, naysayers, industry funded think-tanks and lobbyists have worked tirelessly to challenge, convolute and dismiss the issue as hysterical. Everything's Cool tells the harrowing story of what it takes to talk about global warming -- the art of duking it out with collective denial, the struggle to communicate the urgency of the crisis to an indifferent public and a laggard United States government. We follow a cadre of messengers who are passionate, exasperated, driven by fear, hope and a deep appreciation for the ever shrinking window of time we have to stop global warming. THE STORY AS IT IS EVOLVING We take to the road with veteran global warming messenger and author Ross Gelbspan, as he launches "Boling Point" -- his "last" and "final" book on the issue. We are behind the scenes at the Weather Channel for the education of Dr. Heidi Cullen, a climatologist cum television personality, who has the unique and often excruciating task of reporting and/explaining climate change in sound-bites fit for a primetime audience. We film a group of citizen-activists -- ages 18 to 80 - training for their inevitable "elevator speech" - their chance to tell the right story to the right audience at the right time and rouse the sleeping country. They are the Paul Reveres of the next energy revolution. Meanwhile the national NGOs, who have been working on the crisis of global warming for the past two decades -- including National Resources Defense Council, Greenpeace, Environmental Defense, - along with Moveon.org pin their oft-dashed messaging hopes on a summer Hollywood blockbuster. "The Day After Tomorrow" does what they've never been able to do. It fictionalizes every difficult aspect of global warming into a nightmarish, but undeniably compelling message. The impacts are severe and immediate, the rich countries are devastated, the skeptics, the delayers and the recalcitrant feds are taught their lessons, and it all happens in the time-span of a long weekend. For a moment it seems to be working- newspapers have cover stories, news programs devote entire segments to global warming -- the issue is finally in play! Activists, scientists even former VP Al Gore are in almost all the press coverage speaking right on message: "this might be over the top and science fiction, but global warming is real and happening now." But our collective attention span is short. Spiderman 2 and Fahrenheit 911 soon push The Day After Tomorrow out of the theaters. The public discourse moves on leaving the issue profile of global warming essentially unchanged and mired near the very bottom of the issue heap coming into the election of 2004. Now what?

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  #35  
Old 12-05-2008, 05:11 PM
Peter Lindemann Peter Lindemann is offline
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Ash,

Great archival stuff. What a great list of high powered folks pushing the message of Global Warming.

Here's a recent article that looks at the science and the data more closely. The article is called "Is the Earth Getting Warmer, or Cooler?"

Is the earth getting warmer, or cooler? • The Register

Enjoy,

Peter
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  #36  
Old 12-05-2008, 08:08 PM
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  #37  
Old 12-06-2008, 01:23 AM
vzon17 vzon17 is offline
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[QUOTE=jibbguy;36847]If it's so "phony" why is there such a huge melt-off of permafrost, polar ice, and glaciers....? I'm afraid there really is no denying this. And there is historic evidence that it is not cyclic, at least not beyond Ice Age -kinda "cyclic".


Its not phony, the part that is phony is that man has something to do with it or is causing it. thats the phony part. if that part was true that man has somethnig to do with it then it would not have happened in the past. Climate change is real but its not our doing. And that is the whole point of the argument. What people always do is present the argument and when somebody refutes it they point to the part that is real and say hey how can you refute this, and ignore the part they also presented as being its cause. Its a typical bait and switch operation and immediately exposed the perosn trying to make the sale as not so honest, or trying to run a manipulation game. Its old news. the rational can not argue with the irrational, because the irrational can't or won't stay on point.
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  #38  
Old 12-06-2008, 07:01 PM
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I used to be one of the skeptics of all man-made global warming (cooling) theories. I used to believe that the climate of this planet is affected by the sun only. But after reading Sai Baba's comments on natural disaster, I changed my mind completely.

Sai Baba is not a scientist, but he warned of the danger of the climate abnormality in 1992 --- five years before the Kyoto treaty. Here are the literature sources of his warning:

The Ramala Centre - Newsletter March 2000

".... In an interview that Ann and I had with Sai Baba last February Swami told us that the Earth was sick. He said that the hole in the ozone layer was getting bigger and that as a result the Earth was heating up. He also said that the Earth had a high temperature, a fever, and that she would have to cleanse herself of this fever. What form this cleansing will take I do not know, but I believe that we are witnessing the first symptoms of this fever in the extremes of weather that we are now experiencing all over the world."

Go Veg, Be Green, Save the Planet! : For Scientists and Engineers

"Adoration of Nature: Students! The progress of modern technology, by polluting the atmosphere with carbon dioxide smoke, is causing threat to the life on earth. The smoke has already created a hole in the ozone ring above the earth which has been serving a protecting cover against harmful radiation from the sun."

"The Ozone layer above the earth faces great danger owing to atmospheric pollution and intensive afforestation is essential for controlling this pollution and safeguarding the ozone layer."

"Because of the advance of technology, several factories have sprung up, causing emission of harmful gases in the atmosphere and resulting in the ozone layer becoming thinner. If this goes on unchecked, it may have disastrous consequences. Scientists are trying to stop the breakup of the ozone layer but are unable to find a remedy. The cause of this situation is that more carbon dioxide is being let into the atmosphere. Normally, plants and trees absorb and assimilate the carbon dioxide and supply oxygen by the natural process of photosynthesis. But because there is deforestation to an alarming extent, the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has considerably increased. The remedy for this situation is intensive afforestation, growing more trees everywhere, and protecting the existing trees without destroying them for other purposes. The relationship of man, nature, and God is very intimate, which scientists may not be able to realize." - Sathya Sai Baba, Sanathana Sarathi 36, February 1993, p. 45.



(Note: 1) In many of his teachings, Sai Baba constantly mentioned carbon dioxide smoke as a source of problem rather than carbon dioxide. This "carbon dioxide smoke" may well be a ozone depleting chemical which he failed to describe in scientific language. I think his translator might have removed the word "smoke" to avoid what was to him (the translator) a misunderstanding. 2) Sai Baba did not say the climate abnormality will definitely come in the form of global warming. )


Another warning from Sai Baba is about our excessive expliotation of the nature, which, he believes, was the cause of the Tsunami in Indonesia that killed 294 000 people:

"Then Sai Baba warned us that Man was extracting far too many minerals and too much oil from the Earth for short term financial profit. He said that the Earth was hollow and was becoming unbalanced. He held his hand up, in the shape of a clenched fist, to look like a ball, and then he turned his hand sideways. What this portends I do not know, but it seems to me to imply that there will be a shift in the axis of rotation of the Earth. ... "

If Sai Baba's comments are worth something, the present recession (or even economic depression) is probably a blessing in disguise for the humanity rather than a curse.

(Disclaimer: I am not a follower of Sai Baba, but like most of you, I am also a member of scientists' community.)
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  #39  
Old 12-07-2008, 02:18 AM
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Anyone aware of HAARP and its capabilities?

What if.........
At one point in time I remember having read a statement that the American Government that controls HAARP can heat up or cool down a particular Area. Being TESLA Technology, I am convinced that this can be done.
Why not keep the Arctic Ice free? It is a very much disputed route for shipping and exploration.
Of course when you heat or cool off an area opposite to what Nature has planned ,you cause major changes in ocean currents which in effect influence the entire weather pattern.
So if they muck around with the weather for economical reasons it would be understandable that the real reason would be hidden from us and we would be fed the B.S. Story of Global Warming due to Mankind's Pollution not to say there is none and not to say that it has some influence.
What happens when pollution from a major earthquake covers the upper atmosphare ? Right.... remember Krakatoa the earth entered into a small Ice Age.
The Ozone hole yes it is real and it affects the UV Radiation and all the other Higher Energy levels to harm Life on Earth but would it change the Temperature? I don't think so.
Infrared Radiation does. I know what someone will say Xrays will cook you yes so does Microwave but the Energy level would have to be very High.
This is not something that we are seeing right now.
Nabiru yes it is scary from what I have read about it and Nasa is keeping a close watch on it.
I am sure we are not being told the real truth although which is known to our Governments. They have their spot underground we don't.
So why should they Care?
Professor
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  #40  
Old 12-08-2008, 09:35 AM
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More info

I started my own little website on Global warming propaganda

globalwarmingpropaganda.com
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  #41  
Old 12-08-2008, 05:38 PM
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@Peter Lindemann,

This is what happens when you attack one's religion. and I believe the global warming/carbon credit religion is infecting many otherwise objective thinkers.


Quote:
The answer to this can only be discovered by an OPEN SCIENTIFIC INQUIRY where all of the data is considered dispassionately
That statement pretty much sums it up, and I agree with you.
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  #42  
Old 12-09-2008, 03:21 AM
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Thanks for that Peter and V, that reading saved me a lot of time, well i will do my part and promo them from the Panacea side for all. Thing is ill have a message that emissions are still harmful and we are better off with out them,. The carbon credits can be changed to help make people adapt more environmental solutions (I'll mention these on the page) and not not just taxing over mis represented scientific research.

Thanks for the info guys.

Ash
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  #43  
Old 12-09-2008, 08:11 AM
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Made it onto Panacea

Such great info on this forum as always such a shame to let it die down in the threads, well not any more
Evidence of Concern
Any fixes needed let me know, well done guys .

Ash
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  #44  
Old 12-10-2008, 07:17 PM
jibbguy jibbguy is offline
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Who says it's a "Religion"? Prove your statement.

The assumption that people who believe in the fact of global warming are "religious fanatics" is patently, utterly, and disingenuously false.

Our opinions in this matter are based on two things: science, and observation. We can observe glaciers melting, we can see that millions of acres of tundra has thawed, and we can see that the ice packs have shrunk considerably over the last 30 years. I realize some peeps here don't like to hear that (..because it is the only irrefutable argument of this entire matter), but that's just too bad.

So such comments are really meant to be ad hominem attacks; not arguments of fact of reason at all. "Attack the messenger instead of the message" is a good tactic when you have no viable argument; and i've run into it a thousand times. Unlike most "we're better then them, just ignore it", "polite" Progressives and Liberals.... I never been able to put up with it for a second, and will call them on it every time.

I don't take kindly to being accused of being a "religious fanatic" when it comes to defending the reality of global warming. If someone has arguments against mine i am happy to answer them, but when the debate leads to ad hominems (as this topic alway seems to...), then there really is no debate.
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  #45  
Old 12-14-2008, 01:24 AM
Peter Lindemann Peter Lindemann is offline
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Recent News on Global Warming Dissent

Hi Guys,

Here's a recent article showing that the "Global Warming" dissenters are starting to gain some momentum. It's about time!

ICECAP

Enjoy,

Peter
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  #46  
Old 12-14-2008, 02:01 AM
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Thanks for that Peter. Here's even more good news: Scientists are starting to speak out against the manmade global warming agenda being pushed by the IPCC and Al Gore.

.: U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works :: Minority Page :.
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Old 12-14-2008, 03:32 AM
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Science & observation & fanatics, Oh My!

Hi Jibb;

As far as the changes in the permafrost and polar ice caps the video Peter posted contained scientific charts and observations which showed this has happened before, sometimes to an even greater degree, but eventually reversed and stabilized. I'm not looking for a discussion here, just using this to make a point.

I think this illustrates the problem in a nutshell. Everyone has their own set of data to support their opinion while ignoring other data for whatever reason.

Here's a video I haven't seen mentioned here which seems to suggest our own pollution is keeping us cooler, not warmer.

NOVA | Dimming the Sun | Discoveries in Global Dimming | PBS

I agree with Peter this should be studied by a competent panel of unbiased scientists who consider all the facts objectively, but where to find them? Especially since they always seem to be financed by some hidden agenda. How do we eliminate the political/financial special interests who motivate the fanatics? Looks like it will take someone above our pay grade to figure all that out, providing they even exist.

Meantime, I agree with Ash we should concentrate on just cleaning the environment up for the reasons he gave until someone comes up with a viable solution to "Global Warming", if there is one.

Al
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  #48  
Old 12-14-2008, 06:27 PM
Peter Lindemann Peter Lindemann is offline
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Hi Guys,

Here's a link to an article from BBC about the recent Climate Conference that just concluded in Poznan, Poland. The main issues are Political maneuvering, funding for Developing Countries, Carbon Taxes, etc.

BBC NEWS | Science & Environment | Mood mixed as climate summit ends

Peter
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  #49  
Old 12-15-2008, 06:55 AM
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Thanks for all the links Peter . Updating the pages with them.

Ash
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Old 12-15-2008, 02:33 PM
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What is "cyclical" iyo? And does that matter anyway it's if happening now?

It's interesting that "Chemtrails", are by definition, "pollution"

Regarding just how long it's been since the millions of acres of permafrost now quickly thawing has been frozen, and what that means...

Ground Frozen Since Ice Age Thaws and Collapses | LiveScience

Climate warning as Siberia melts - environment - 11 August 2005 - New Scientist

U.S. Geological Survey
Climate Change Impacts on the US: Alaska. Educational Resources

*Alaska permafrost thawing, Siberia frozen peat bogs melting, Arctic Yedoma releasing hot spots of bubbling*methane ***The WE News Archives******

Melting of permafrost could trigger rapid global warming warns UN
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  #51  
Old 12-16-2008, 06:54 AM
vzon17 vzon17 is offline
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Trigger???

Melting of permafrost could trigger rapid global warming warns UN[/QUOTE]

Ah ha ha ha ha, pretty dam funny, sunset could trigger darkness too, we are all doomed !!

The UN has about as much credibility as hollywood in my book.

Nothing personal against you jibbguy keep up your posts, its good to have lots of info.

The reason people attack the messenger is that they know deep inside that its balloney and don't want to invest a lot of time gathering the facts to argue or debate with those that have taken it to themselves to own certain beliefs.
I can look at the belief of santa Claus and see it for what it is without a lot of scientific research or facts to back up my assesment. the same with global warming. once you know certain key facts then ten thousands points against it won't mean anything.

And this is because when you choose to believe something you can always find mountains of proof to support your belief. doesn't matter which side you choose.

And thene there is reality. it exists and functions regardless of what anybody believes or thinks. Base ones thinking on reality and a lot of stuff falls away.

So have you seen the tundra melting? probaly not, have you seen a polar bear? probably not, have you seen the water rise. probably not. All the info we get to support our sides is all hearsay on most levels. we don't need a commity of scientists to figure it out. all we need is one man that is submersed in the facts by dircet experience and measurment and then you have something to work with. Anything that has a political or news media source is by its very nature suspect and most likely false and dishonest and you will have a very high percentage of correctness by discounting those sources. included in those sources are any government involved studies.
If you fill your book with biased info you get a biased conclusion. that is why its a religion, because its a collection of believersl that have no facts to back up their beliefs. And thtey defend them with fanatic zeal.

So the way I approach it is I go against what the wide spread belief is and in most cases that is the reality of the situation, works in climate, works in health , works in energy, works in philosophy and politics. commonly held belief is usually wrong, so most people believ in man made global warming so I say there is a 99% chance they are full of it.
And gathering facts for one side and gathereing facts for the other side does not resolve that answer as there is some much info on either side. that more won't solve it.
So they say there is global warming caused by man, and they all fear the consequesces. so how do they know the consequensces are to be feared. maybe they are beneficial. Its all speculation.
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Old 12-16-2008, 08:30 PM
Peter Lindemann Peter Lindemann is offline
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Hi Guys,

Here's the latest article from BBC. 2008 was cooler than last year and the coolest, overall global temperature since 2000. Predictions of "no further warming" in the next ten years clearly show the "Global Warming" bias as it is reported.

But the data is there. How embarrassing for the "true believers" as the CO2 rates continue to climb straight through the new cooling trend.

Enjoy,

Peter

BBC NEWS | Science & Environment | This year is coolest since 2000
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Old 12-16-2008, 11:37 PM
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Keep em coming please Peter. Does any one remember the Al Gore Doc where he stated that they the Congress, wrote a memo to politicans to go forth and give the impression to the public that global warming is more of a Myth then reality. Maybe that was part of his Disinfo tactics...dunno always wondered about that one
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Old 12-17-2008, 03:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Lindemann View Post
Hi Guys,

Here's the latest article from BBC. 2008 was cooler than last year and the coolest, overall global temperature since 2000. Predictions of "no further warming" in the next ten years clearly show the "Global Warming" bias as it is reported.

But the data is there. How embarrassing for the "true believers" as the CO2 rates continue to climb straight through the new cooling trend.

Enjoy,

Peter

BBC NEWS | Science & Environment | This year is coolest since 2000
Well according to the finding by some scientists on the global warming swindle movie they figured out that the C02 follows global warming by 800 years, so if that is correct then the C02 rising now is from the warm globe 800 years ago.

USATODAY.com - Tree rings show Earth was warm 800 years ago

Co2 does not drive climate as it is only a tiny fraction of one percent of the air and the part that man creates is only a tiny fraction of that, which amounts to next to nothing. So if Co2 is rising as much as they say then its just part of the natrual cycle, the Ocean gives it off and absorbs it, its is our natural buffer of Co2, jelly fish farts, yikes
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Old 12-17-2008, 05:02 PM
Peter Lindemann Peter Lindemann is offline
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New Discovery of Sun's Influence

Hi Guys,

Just ran into this. The article discusses the discovery of a rhythmic expansion and contraction of the Earth's atmosphere caused by the Sun. Very interesting.

Sun Induces Strange 'Breathing' of Earth's Atmosphere | Wired Science from Wired.com

Enjoy,

Peter
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Old 12-17-2008, 09:04 PM
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Perhaps some of you here are only interested in facts if they fit YOUR beliefs.

Regarding the arctic tundra melting.. Several years ago i did travel to Alaska and visited an Exxon facility there on business. Lol i had a chartered Alaska AL flight all to myself to Fairbanks, they really needed my services at the time . I also have film i shot that week of glacier faces falling off. That same glacier has moved back several kilometers since i have been alive; at a highly accelerated rate from previous centuries. I did see some permafrost melt (...and the ground WAS very dark when compared to snow... and absolutely covered with mosquitoes and other little flying bugs lol), but the point is that if you want to disbelieve established facts like this, then there is no reasonable argument to make with you.

Again with the "religion" ad hominems lol. It is meant to deflect from facts, and paint those that point out the facts as somehow "tainted" because of their excess zeal. But whether or not i or others are overzealous doesn't have a tinker' damn to do with the glaciers and permafrost melts. They do exist and any numbers of red herrings and straw men won't change that.

As i said the reasons for global warming/climate change are debatable. But the current physical results of it really are not. Until you show some proof that all these scientists, including NASA and Geo Survey peeps are lying about what is happening in the Arctic Circle, South America, New Zealand, Antarctica, the Alps, and elsewhere (many of whom are from foreign countries who don't give a damn about our "red and blue" politics)... Then it is rather silly to simply deny it.

Again, the sun COULD have something to do with it (...just as CO2 could); but taking some recent data and extrapolating it to be the reason of the current melt-off is rather tenuous.
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Old 12-18-2008, 06:04 AM
Peter Lindemann Peter Lindemann is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jibbguy View Post
Perhaps some of you here are only interested in facts if they fit YOUR beliefs.

Regarding the arctic tundra melting.. Several years ago i did travel to Alaska and visited an Exxon facility there on business. Lol i had a chartered Alaska AL flight all to myself to Fairbanks, they really needed my services at the time . I also have film i shot that week of glacier faces falling off. That same glacier has moved back several kilometers since i have been alive; at a highly accelerated rate from previous centuries. I did see some permafrost melt (...and the ground WAS very dark when compared to snow... and absolutely covered with mosquitoes and other little flying bugs lol), but the point is that if you want to disbelieve established facts like this, then there is no reasonable argument to make with you.

Again with the "religion" ad hominems lol. It is meant to deflect from facts, and paint those that point out the facts as somehow "tainted" because of their excess zeal. But whether or not i or others are overzealous doesn't have a tinker' damn to do with the glaciers and permafrost melts. They do exist and any numbers of red herrings and straw men won't change that.

As i said the reasons for global warming/climate change are debatable. But the current physical results of it really are not. Until you show some proof that all these scientists, including NASA and Geo Survey peeps are lying about what is happening in the Arctic Circle, South America, New Zealand, Antarctica, the Alps, and elsewhere (many of whom are from foreign countries who don't give a damn about our "red and blue" politics)... Then it is rather silly to simply deny it.

Again, the sun COULD have something to do with it (...just as CO2 could); but taking some recent data and extrapolating it to be the reason of the current melt-off is rather tenuous.
Dear Jibbguy,

I honestly believe that everyone in this thread agrees that the climate has been warming during most of the last century. Clear records show that this particular warming cycle began in about 1650. This was a full 100 years before the beginning of the "industrial revolution" and the slow beginning of the burning of coal to drive steam engines in the late 1700's. If there was no significant rise in CO2 levels between 1650 and 1780, then it is reasonable to ask what caused THAT warming?

It is also well documented that carbon burning increased rapidly after WW2, but global temperatures dropped from 1940 to 1970. What caused THAT cooling while CO2 levels were rising? These are reasonable questions.

Yes, the permafrost is melting. Yes, the glaciers are melting. The evidence is, as you say, overwhelmingly obvious. The intelligent and respectful discussion here is about WHY! We all would like to understand the genuine CAUSES of what we observe, and that includes Climate Change.

I would enjoy it if the TONE of this thread reverted to a more respectful and civil discussion, with plenty of room for differing points of view.

Peter
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  #58  
Old 12-18-2008, 07:17 AM
anut anut is offline
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Here are some comments from a near-death experience surviver (i.e. nder). This nder is not a scientist, but apparently he has predicted the 911 event before its happening:

"Our scientists, politicians, powerbrokers, celebrities, and talking heads in the media seem to be powerless and clueless in trying to explain why all these things are happening. Even on global warming, the scientists cannot seem to agree on what is causing the world to be so out of balance. Perhaps they are clueless because they are only looking on a physical level for an explanation for global warming, not recognizing that it may be what we are doing, or alternatively, what we are failing to do on a spiritual level that is affecting the planet in ways that cannot be explained through science. That is, unless scientists focus more attention on a super-microscopic level and recognize that the intelligent plan that guides the universe, the life force of energy that controls all particles of matter and all living things, has become so corrupted by an increase in dark energy that the planet and its inhabitants are reeling on a downward course into an abyss of chaos and confusion.

By tuning into the TV Weather Channel from the comfort of our homes, we can view global satellite images of the weather patterns that are affecting the planet, but we still cannot find an explanation for why the weather patterns are so out of balance. Perhaps what we all need is a Spiritual Weather Channel, so we can then view all of the destructive spiritual storms that are raging throughout the planet as a result of all the dark and negative energy created by the violence and war, the materialism and greed, and the disrespect for the sanctity of human life at all levels of life from conception to natural death, particularly with the unfettered experimentation on human life itself. Have you stopped to think for a moment how God is viewing our activities right now?"


Source: Mission of Angels Foundation - [ 2006 Messages ]

I am not sure if the so-called dark energy that this nder referred includes "fear". If it does, and given his track record is worth considering, perhaps we should stop killing our fellow human beings and other animals, because the fear of being killed is also a kind of fear. Our instinctive fear of being killed also logically makes the philosophy of killing universally unethical.
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Last edited by anut; 12-18-2008 at 07:23 AM.
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  #59  
Old 12-18-2008, 11:06 AM
CaptainScat
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we have a spiritual weather channel, the 700 club

as far as not killing goes does this extend to plants? and if no, why?
does this extend to microbes? and if no, why?

surely you realize life feeds on life?
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Old 12-18-2008, 08:00 PM
Peter Lindemann Peter Lindemann is offline
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Lots of Fun!

Hi Guys,

Just a little bit of local news here from Spokane, in the Eastern Washington area. Today, the city and all outlying areas are completely shut down, after a record shattering snowfall of 17 inches in the 24 hour period that ended at midnight last night. The fun part is that it is STILL snowing, with no let-up in sight. Storm totals for Northern Idaho, including Coeur d'Alene and Post Falls are in the range of 32 inches so far, and growing.

Local TV programming is all Emergency Weather Alert up-dates on all channels. Police are telling everyone if you have a regular two-wheel drive car "don't even think about getting out and driving". Even 4 wheel drive vehicles are getting stuck and sliding off the freeway.

All schools, Universities, City Hall, Post Offices, Doctors offices are closed. All plowing crews are on 24 hour rotations with private contractors adding to the efforts.

Looking out the window as I write this I am seeing some of the heaviest snow of the storm with near "white-out" conditions.

Lots of Fun!

Peter
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