Not safe for me to teach on this site anymore.

Do you have a successful replication?

H2OPower,

I hope to see someone incorporate everything together here that you're mentioning.

In regards to the isolation of the positive tube from the water to make a real capacitor, some people have been very well aware of at least this component including the ground to the water bath itself:
Stan Meyer Bifilar Chokes (diagram here)

Stan Meyer Bifilar Chokes

Stan Meyer Bifilar Chokes some discussion of purpose of Delrin encasement

Many months ago, I showed a few references to Peter and he helped me build something at his shop...a real water capacitor...what that project was is irrelevant... what is relevant is that the goal is to have a water cell where voltage potential WILL NOT LEAK. The project was far from perfected but this concept is clearly spelled out in Tay Hee Han's patent as well.

Meyer shows this very clearly with his diagram of the delrin encasement.

Delrin isn't practical for anyone unless they have access to some machine stop probably. My homebrew solution was to get a can of plastidip to coat the outside positive tube in to isolate it from the water. Also, super corona dope can be painted on the outside of the positive tube, which I have a few quarts of this for this purpose.

Anyway, I'd like to see you or someone else show results from all of this.

Thanks for posting this and I hope to see some more progress in this area..very exciting!

Use of 430F was not only for extra resistance , Here are some quotes from the brief.

Like I said the WFC is NOT IMPORTANT it is the GAS PROCESSER that is the key to this technology.

Some numbers for you to think over:

Gasloine has a energy level of 4846 kJ/mol
H2 + 1/2O2 has an energy level of 286.02 kJ/mol

Now this is what happens when it passes through the Gas Processor:
1st ionozation level,
H 1312 + 1/2 O 1313.9 = 1968.85 kJ/mol
2nd for oxygen,
H 1312 + 1/2 O 3388.3 = 3006.15 kJ/mol
3rd for oxygen,
H 1312 + 1/2 O 5300.5 = 3962.25 kJ/mol

Now you can see just what the Gas Processor is doing. Note, depending on how far you ionize the Oxygen the energy levels keep going up to end up with this:
H 1312 + 1/2 O 84,078.0 = 43,351 kJ/mol. Now that's energy

If you get to any one of these energy states it will run your engine with ease. So, the key is to make the Gas Processor and make it to ionize the gases that go through too a energy state as far as you can so you can get these energy levels to put in the cumbustion chamber and ignite them. I suggest to make two of them one for the incoming air and the other for the hho from what every source you choose to get the hho from. Now you can see just how Stanley Meyer ran his 1.6L VW engine on just a 7L/min production rate.

Energy independence is now yours for the taking, enjoy,
h2opower.

The WFC is more useless without the insulation on the tubes but I agree it is destabalizing the gas. It isn't about volume of gas but how high you can potentialize the same volume of gas. Jetijs realized this on a few experiments that equal volumes don't necessary have equal power.

Anyway, a quote from the page I mentioned...not Meyer's...just old known science:

"The velocity of an ion in a gas is extraordinarily larger than the corresponding velocity in an electrolyte. H-ions move in pure water only at 1.08 cm/hr at a gradient of 1 Volt/cm, so that the H-ion in hydrogen moves 25,000 times faster than in water.

Saturation current
Can a strong electric field remove the freshly formed ions from the gas so fast that no recombination whatsoeveroccurs? An experiment with the plate condenser (Fig. 507) gives the answer!"


------------------------------------------------------------



What is this answer? It is on that page.

That's good information Aaron, shows the speed of things going on in these reactions.

One thing I have notice in my research is that Oxygen can't be stripped of electrons from the ground state too the lowest in one hit, it has to be done in stages. But the good thing is for oxygen it only takes .98 eV to push it up a level. Hydrogen, on the otherhand, takes 13.6 eV to push it up to the next level so you really have to focuse your energies well when it comes to hydrogen.

Now everything is going to be in percentages, we have to design it in a way that has the best percentages of conversion. I also see no harm in putting two gas processors back to back. But when designing for one for the incoming air and one for the hho, the two will not be made the same. One will have its primary focuse on stripping Oxygen and the other will have it's primary focuse on stripping Hydrogen. Being that Oxygen has more than 73 wavelengths at which to bombard it with the Gas Processor ment for Hydrogen will convert some of the Oxygen as well, just not as high in percentages as the one built for Oxygen will.

Another thing that helps us is the technology on LEDs has advanced much since the time when Meyer used them. From what I can tell they are about 20 to 30 times as bright as the ones Meyer had to use in his day. Hitting these things at the right wavelengths is a must. I thought about using white light LEDs, kinda throwing everything but the kitchen sink at it aproach, but I decided to try and match the atoms. Now Meyer didn't have white LEDs to use in his time, for even though they did exist back then they weren't really on the market for sell until 2003 I think. So, if we do our homework we can make a Gas Processor that Meyer would be proud of.

Photon bombardment is 180 degrees of the pulsing of the high voltage field and the electron extraction circuit pulses with the LEDs. Remember the idea is to strip as many electrons as you can from the incoming gases. The time it will stay for Oxygen is about .74 sec's but that is plenty of time when you think about the gas speeds inside of the intake system. Meyer says in the patent if you want higher conversion rates you have to increase the frequency to 50k Hz and above. But with the advances in LEDs we have a lot more photons to bombard the atoms with than Meyer did so we should out do him easily. Also note it takes cohernt light not defusied light to effect the atoms.

Best Regards,
h2opower.

This page I meant (where the info/answer is)
K9 Passage of electricity through gases

H2OPower,

What is your solution to "burn off" the electrons? A Meyer EEC type circuit or something else? If it is like Meyer's do you have a schematic of what you're going to use?

I sent you a PM on what I am doing so as not to confuse anyone reading any of this matireal.

I wouldn't call it "burn off" but more of a "consuming of the negetive electrons" so that the probability of recombination of the ionized gas atoms is far less likely to occur. That bit of reading you shared with us explains the purpose of the EEC very well and adds clarity to what Meyer had done with the Gas Processor. Thanks

Best Regards,
h2opower.

Very interesting topic! Just curious though if a commercial air ionizer could possibly work for this type of application (with some modifications of course)?

Hi Bill,

Those would be donating electrons so wouldn't really fit this purpose since we want to get the electrons out of the water and hho gas that comes out of the water.

However, the concept of ionization by collision is used in Patrick Flannagan's negative ion generators. The electrons are spit out so they hit other attached electrons and so forth like a chain reaction. It still isn't suited for the purpose of increasing the power of the hho water gas but is a great synchronicity I think that you mention ion generators because I was specifically thinking of posting about Flannagan's generators in relation to mentioning the ion collision effect.

I would recommend that anyone read this patent to get a good feel for this basic concept:
Water decomposition method and device using ionization by collision - Patent 4427512

The Meyer method to get the electrons out is with an EEC - electron extraction circuit. The electrons freed in the water and in the hho gas leaving the cell are going to be attracted to the positive plate/tube/field. If there is a connection there going from there to a bulb and the bulb goes back to ground, that bulb will be a path for those electrons to leave the water or gas and will therefore prevent the h and o from recombining back into water molecules.

So far, I've seen some (claims) EEC results with bulbs. I'd like to try the experiment with capacitors and inductive loads to see if it pulls those electrons away any more effectively. I supposed the evidence of any of this is in how much work we can get out of the gas in the end after it has been stripped of electrons.

You can also see in the patent diagrams that ionized and non combustible gases are used in the watersparkplug design.

http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/PatE5.pdf

Thanks for the explanation Aaron Looking forward to hearing about the experiments with capacitors and inductive loads!

About the cell I have heard from a successful replicator that the key to success is understanding that you need a standing, longitudinal wave between the cylinders. So both inductors need approximately the same turns and then the magnetic pulse will throw H2O molecules left and right with equal force and HHO will rise FROM THE CENTER POINT BETWEEN THE CYLINDERS. Just like a standing wave.

Anyone can easily reach COP of 3 without perfect cylinders(MOST IMPORTANT DETAIL THAT THE CYLINDERS ARE PERFECTLY MACHINE TOOLED TO INCREASE OUTPUT). But the simplest version of Meyer is not hard to build for the experimenter in here who has experience from bifilar coils. And remember AC power source is just fine if you use 50% duty cycle.

I am not sure if you guys are getting the point here . The water fuel capacitor is not needed to run a internal combustion engine. The gas processor is the key to Stanley Meyer's invention. In the end Stanley Meyer didn't use a water fuel capacitor with his injectors. The injectors sent in a charged water mist with the same concept as a Taylor cone, primed Oxygen atoms, and recirculated exhaust gases. There was a very little hydrogen produced from the LEDs on the side of the injector to get the reaction started once ignited in the combustion chamber. But with a firestorm type spark plug even that wouldn't be needed, just gotta love addvances in technology .

Example: If the gas processor creates Oxygen striped to it's second ionozation level that newly formed (primed) Oxygen has the energy to break the bonds of water and then react with it. Oxygen in it's second level has 3388 kJ/mol and it only takes 1368 kJ/mol to break the bonds of water, now do the math and you will see why the Gas Processor is the key too Meyer's invention, for you can strip Oxygen way past the 2nd level. Try it, do the math and see the results for youself .

As for using the store brought ionizers not sure but the EEC has to be in the circuit for it consumes the negetive electrons that where just striped from the atom. If the EEC is not put in the nutrual and the negetive electrons will be attracted to each other and your primed gases would be lost in short order. The EEC's job is to consume the negetive electrons so the negetive oxygen ions have nothing to combine with cuting down the probability that the primed gases will combine with anything on their way to the combustion chamber for they will repel each other for most of them will be negetive electrons.

I hope that clears things up some,
Free power to the people,
h2opower.

Thanks H2OPower for your clarity. I will look into it. The WFC is easily built, the gas processor needs more attention as you say. The steam resonator is it really included in the Meyer buggy engine? If so, is it the final step before ignition?

What is this charged water mist? Water is charged when it is in a WFC and is separated and actually allowed to recombine back into water...then it is charged and it is supposedly acts different than regular water that hasn't been through that process.

Also, what is your definition of a positive electron and negative electron?

There are 3 flows on a circuit. Positive voltage potential, negative voltage potential and electrons that are of negative potential.

This is getting interesting, about the EEC I always thought he did that trick rotating the HHO gas(which is magnetic) inducing a rotating magnetic field causing the electrons to flow away(or whatever happens when HHO is rotated near a conductor, I bet very few people know for sure) in a conductor, at the moment I do not find that drawing in one of his patents, it looks like a solenoid coil.

Anyway a unipulsed magnetic field could do the work too, remember south pole ionizes one way and north pole the other way. And then of course he can use his laser/LEDs. Finally it seems his steam resonator comes in handy too before ignition.

So we have 3 main steps(as fas as I see it very quickly, I am surely wrong about some details):

1) Make HHO with WFC - easy and clear
2) Ionize HHO and air(O2) ambient by magnetic pulses/laser/LEDs etc. Not very clear to me.
3) Spray water mist into the mix and use the steam resonator to separate everything before ignition. Ignite for suction(implosion) power. Pretty clear.

?? Feel free to summarize better and more exact. Thanks.

Stan Meyer worked hard and he was a practical genius, that is clear to me, most of his theory we should forget though.

Turns out I was completely wrong, I found that drawing and the solenoid coil turned out to be a solenoid spring....

However the idea about rotating HHO to get the electrons away might not be the worst I have had, a rotating magnetic field is somehow familiar territory here I believe....

Please help us uninformed with the short and simple story of the ionizer part of Meyer´s patents. Thanks.

For that Aaron we go to the Taylor Cone and how it relates to Meyer's injectors. In a Taylor cone the tip of the needle is subjeted to a high voltage field. The fuild,(in our case water) picks up this positive charge, and when it is injected into the combustion chamber the engine itself is the collector and the water mist starts to break up into a plume of ever decreasing water droplets aiding in combustion with the freshly primed air gases.

Qute from the reading you gave us to read:
In order to explain this phenomenon, we must return to the ionization process itself: By external action ( for example, by X-rays) one electron is separated from a gas molecule (or atom), and thereby it becomes a positively charged ion. Under the normal conditions, which held in Fig. 508, the separated electron will attach itself soon to a gas molecule, because free electrons can hardly exist in a dense gas. The molecule with the excess electrons form then a negative ion and remain so until it reaches the electrode or recombines with a positive ion, whereby both molecules return to the normal state.

Now to tie all of this in with the EEC from the reading you gave us to read:

Recombination and velocity of ions

If you also earth in the ionization chamber of Fig. 507 the plate P, the number of ions in the chamber K increases, since the field which extracted them from the air space is absent. Does the ionization process last until all gas molecules have been split into ions or are there other processes to stop this? To start with, one expects that individual ions approach by themselves by diffusion the plates P, P' and the housing and thereby lose their charge. In fact, this is what happens, however, in general, the number of ions destroyed in this manner is very small compared with the direct reunion (recombination) of the ions in the gas space as a result of the forces of attraction, which are present between oppositely charged ions. This recombination apparently takes place the faster, the larger is the number of positive and negative ions in the space. Hence, if you focus your attention on a definite negative ion, the probability that it will disappear by recombination with a positive ion is proportional to the number N+ of the present ions; the same applies to the positive ions. The frequency of recombinations in a gas is therefore kN+N- or kN�, since, as a rule, equal numbers of positive and negative ions are present. K is a factor which differs with the state of the gas. Hence the number of recombinations increases quadratically with the ion density. A strongly ionized gas de-ionizes on its own very quickly unless an external agent generates continually new ions. You can measure the recombination of ions in a strongly ionized gas: For example, Rutherford discovered that of 106 initially present ions half of them disappear after 0.7 sec and 90% after 6 sec. Also, under the action of a very strong ionization, the number of ions, which accumulate in a gas space (free of an electric field), remains very small compared with the number of present gas molecules.
and this too:

Saturation current

Can a strong electric field remove the freshly formed ions from the gas so fast that no recombination whatsoever occurs? An experiment with the plate condenser (Fig. 507) gives the answer! Ionize the gas with a lastingly applied X-ray tube and increase, starting from zero, the field between P and P' by connecting to P at first one, then two, three, etc. accumulators. For each field value measure by means of G the current flowing through the gas. If you plot the strength of the ionization current against the field strength (Fig. 508), you obtain a curve, which at first rises very steeply almost linearly, then flattens out and levels out parallel to the abscissa. This behaviour is easily understood. In a weak field, the ions wander only slowly, whence they are in the gas space a relatively long time and therefore do not readily encounter opposite charged ions for recombination. As their velocity increases, the probability of a recombination drops. The number of ions, which reach the plate, and therefore also the current strength grow with increasing field strength to a value, at which the ions pass through the gas so fast, that recombination cannot occur in appreciable numbers. A further increase of the voltage cannot now cause an increase in the current, because all forming ions are transmitted to the plates P and P'. The maximum current is called saturation current, the corresponding Voltage saturation Voltage. - The saturation current measures directly the number of ions, generated in unit time, and hence also the strength of the ionizer. If there arise each second N pairs of ions in a gas space and each ion carries the load e, then I = eN, for the current is nothing else but the charge which flows each second through the conductor's cross-section.

What I get out of this is if you consume the positive electrons the negetive electrons have no positives in which to recombine with and the probability of recombination cannot occur in appercialbe numbers before the primed air gases reach the combustion chamber.

The last thing in the Meyer's set up just prior to combustion is the Gas Processor, for you only have .74 sec to get the primed air gases into the combustion chamber due to they are in an unstable state. Also, I think the Meyer made the steam resonator due too the fact he lived in a place that snowed and could freeze the water. It is sketchy in my mind, but that is what I think I read about the purpose of the steam resonator.

Aaron, now can I ask you to do something. Post the math of the process so I can see if you understand what the Gas Processor is doing? Thanks.

Best Regards,
h2opower.

This is how I see it:
1) Make WFCw/gas injectors or water mist injector( a real injector for you have to control the amount of water that goes in and the timing).
2) Make the Gas Processor, for it is present in both Meyer's gas injection and water mist injection setups. The Gas Processor uses high voltage(electron bombardment) and photon bombardment of coherent light from the LEDs to push the income air to a higher energy level, and then a electron extraction circuit to consume the negetive electrons that where just striped so the primed air gases don't reform back to their ground state, and/or form ozone.
3) If you live in an envirenment that can freeze water insulate all water lines and make the steam resonator to keep the water from freezing.

Let me know if that helped,
h2opower.

I'm not a mathematician. When I need to know electrical circuit equations or what the simple answer is, I consult experts that can tell me.

Aaron, I am not picking on you, hope you know that. I'm asking for how I view this technology. In my view this technology is very much like a vacation. How so? Easy answer, would you like to read about me going on a vacation or actually go on a real vacation in the same place for yourself. Does that make any sense? Now I put that question I ask towards Aaron to anyone reading this topic. Or would you rather read my expireances on my vacation?

,
h2opower.

There is an older video of Stan discussing this exact effect.
I searched for it lastnight no luck.

He says in the video that the water is not returned,
that it is consumed... Kind of unnerving.

I guess; Make two canal rays one of H and another O,
cause them to intersect at the center of a spark gap???

If you get a torch *like* Irving Langmuirs
http://www.geocities.com/bioelectroc...y/langmuir.htm

We all can use the heat somehow....

A very spooky and interesting topic indeed.

Dave

Now I gave a lot of the math for the reaction already, but it was incomplete.

This math is just simple math of a first year chemistry student, algebra(though not error proof).

2 H-H bonds and 1 0=0 bond are broken.
2(436) + 498 = +1370 kJ/mol. That is the energy it takes to break water down.
4 O-H bonds are formed when hydrogen and oxygen are ignited to form water.

4(-485) = -1836 kJ/mol

Summing the two processes: 1368 + (-1836) = -468 kJ/2mol or ~285 kJ/mol.

Now lets look at what happens when you add primed Oxygen gases to the equation.
1368 to break water down
now O(primed to 1st level 1314)-H = 2(-1096) = -2192 (only two bonds where formed due to oxygen is now single just O not O2).

Summing the two processes: H-H 2(436) + 1/2O .5(1313.9) = 1528.95 kJ/mol - 1836 kJ/mol = -307 kJ/mol. So a net 307 kJ/mol for the new reaction with the primed Oxygen gases, and remember gasoline has 4864 kJ/mol.
Note also that this is only Oxygens first energy level, the more electrons are striped the greater the energy yeild, example 2nd energy level for Oxygen is 3388 kJ/mol, this time you do the math.

Now I may have made a few mistakes but the way it works wont be hampered by my errors, so if it needs correction by all means do so.

That should help everyone to understand the importance of the Gas Processor,

h2opower.

Well it may work and it may be important but what is the end product after ignition. The way I see it we have a lot of positively charged ions that you recombine into something! What is that something??!

Not water according to many people(ie Meyer)....

Please clarify the final chemical reaction if you ie have H+ and O4+ and ignite? Where do the electrons come from?

Maybe Stan gives it away when he uses the words fracturing the hydrogen.

H2 - 2E = two protons.

maybe the proton fractures???? (positrons make the bonds???)

or

a naked proton draws an electron from the Vacuum??? (would return water)

or

maybe some of the O gets ripped apart and the electron debris is used for recombination?
(He deceives us by saying Hydrogen fracturing when its Oxygen fracturing???)

or....

Or just maybe the spark(cold current) is responsible for inititiating a new kind of logic into the reaction between the protons, ie a neutrinolysis just like Meyl tells about in his book?
If so, picking one electron from the light neutrino might yield much less energy than picking many electrons/positrons, especially the really heavy types(my neutrino etc) of neutrinos with 5 electrons/positrons in their vortex chain.

For sure there must be a connection with cold fusion and a transmutation of elements? Anyone has seen a report of the exhaust pipe analysis from Stan´s buggy?

But this is very important and I am not sure I like a water consuming engine, that is for sure.

even worse is one consuming O2
Yes IMHO this is an area of physics involving the nucleus...

If this destroys Hydrogen, great we have a stepping stone

If this destroys Oxygen, I hate to say this but Government need intervene somehow. Like, Demo the effect, Document it, Explain it so everyone knows its insane. Kinda like they did with past nuclear concepts.