HI H2O,
I have read some your explainations but at this time I don't have understand effective reactions.. In fact Meyer system is based on electrons, you add .. you cut electrons.. you ask that water is atomized .. ok.. in this waymy mind figure it.. air (oxygen) and water and charged. For charged we add electrons to water and we cut electrons to air.. after are mixed trougth injector and sended thougth HV field that transform mixture in monoatomic hydrogen (I think).. But as you know engine have phases and time of reaction is very small.. For it my mind suggest me to create externally hydrogen to send into engine.. If Meyer system work as I have mentioned there are not difference to create externally hydrogen and send it into engine.. Or I have lost other thing?? Please answer me .. Many Thanks

After H2O ...
You ask of vacuum, etc... Some threads ago you have posted an youtube video link about engine that theorically work to water.. This work in this way.. First charge water with temperature at 90°C, chambre combustion is different and air compressed with piston (high temperaure is reached) is accumulate with specific valve inside chambre combustion, after piston oes down and create vacuum.. in this condition is injected water atomized 90°C and electric arc HV is created.. result (to verify) is creation of hydrogen into combustion chambre.. after hot air is released and burn hydrogen.. This is an best scenario but in fact must be verified and engine must be modified in some parts.. Our real scenario is different .. we have an standard 4 stroke engine and we have to work on it.. If you have run with success an 4 stroke engine you are great but you can share with us your video and explain pratically and not with theory as you have reach this success.. no more words are needed .. I don't want your project but only an scheme to blocks ..

It is an ionic reaction where hydrogen is the limiting reagent. Now in the math I posted what I show is a worste case possibility. The charged air gases have to break down the water molecule expending 1836 kJ/mol to do so, and only di-atomic hydrogen was used to complete the reaction with the ionized oxygen atom. Don't worry about the time it takes for the engine to suck the mixture into the combustion chamber for the gas speeds inside of an engines intake system are quite fast. Now you can put hydrogen in to mix with it in the combustion chamber for it wont hurt the overall process. But if you have a blow back with thermo explosive energy you might kiss your Gas Processor good bye as well as the whole intake system that isn't design to handle high pressures.

The system is stripping electrons from the oxygen and inducing an image charge on the water molecules as a result the water molecules are negetive and the oxygen atoms are positive, I wonder if I got that right, but anyway that is how it works with the water injector system.

Nite all,

h2opower.

HI H2O,
Thanks for reply me..
Ok .. but how many electrons are stripped from oxygen and add to water?? This is fundamental for reach the success.. Is a mathematical electronic reaction and can't be casual but precise..

This tube was blocked from being made

Stanley Meyer says 4 or more so here are the reactions:

4th energy level is as follows:
2 H-H bonds 872 kJ/mol and 1 O=O bond 7469.2 kJ/mol are formed yielding 8341.2 kJ/mol. The net sum of the reaction now is 8341.2-1836 = +6505.2 kJ/mol
5th
2 H-H bonds 872 kJ/mol and 1 O=O bond 10090.5 kJ/mol = 10962.5 kJ/mol. The net sum of the reaction is 10962.5-1836= +9126.5 kJ/mol.
6th
2 H-H bonds 872 kJ/mol and 1 O=O bond 13326.5 kJ/mol = 14198.5 kJ/mol. The net sum of the reaction is 14198.5-1836= +12362.5 kJ/mol.
Now this is more than 2.54 times the energy content of that of gasoline, and gives a most probable answer to the question of, “How did Stanley Meyer run his 1.6L engine with an hho production rate of only 7L/min.?” For you still have two more electrons to strip off.

Hope that helps,

h2opower.

HI H2O,
Thanks for answer me but still isn't clear without real reactions.. Oxygen have 6 electrons on second orbit and two on first. Water have 2 atoms of hydrogen and 1 of oxygen and formed an octet 6 (oxygen electrons) +2 (hydrogen electrons). Water is ionized negatively (add eletrons) and air positively (strip electrons). For obtain reaction oxygen of air must be -1 electron for to weak the bond of water.. Of course water must be ionized for obtain a fast reaction.

But ins't sufficient theory .. If you have build with success Meyer system you know how many electrons are needed to add and to strip. I need to know mathematical reactions.. Are very important for my mind Many Thanks

Hi H2O

I am in the final stages to build my gas gun.
I have loaded a drawing of how aproxx my setup will be I also included the soft copy wich you will be able to edit in CAD since you told me you'v got it.

I sometimes think I know how everything works and then I hit a blank and doubt everything I know ha ha ha.http://www.energeticforum.com/images/smilies/rofl.gif

I am still not sure what I am going to dd to get water atomized but I am searching for Ideas I was thinking Ultra sonic but It makes very little and is very far from 125 Psi.

One question should'nt one of the tubes be insulated inside the gasgun?
I have a small HV supply with 4k volts and it sparks with a gap of about 2mm
with 11k and up its going to spark constantly and may cause carona discharge since I am pumping dry air through a the tube, kind a think of it mabe its not a bad idea but ja.

So as far as I understand it we have dry air pumped through a gas gun stripping of electrons.
Then water being atomised then exposed to a high volage zone 11k+ Stan said that the smaller the water droplet the smaller the voltage needed
And finaly introduce non-combuxtabl gas and ignite!

I hope I have it right

Thanks and feel free to leave coments on the drawings even change if you want to.

Thanks Digits

http://www.energeticforum.com/images/smilies/yahoo.gif

Attached Images

Cad rep.pdf (51.4 KB, 46 views)

Who blocked it and why?

In one of Stan's drawings he has the LED's labeled as infrared. I believe its the laser accelerator diagram. Should we try infrared?

yes he was also saying that they were in the red spectrum. so Infrared would be a good place to start since it makes sense. maybe even a broadband red might help to figure out if it is the red spectrum.
I was also thinking infrared. Just a gut feeling...

On the subject of LEDs, I found this site Environmental Lights - Home. It sells LED strips of various colors and intensities. It even sells infared. The LEDs are roughly 1/2" apart on most of them and the lengths can be cut to whatever size you want. It might beat going through the hassel of printing circuit boards and soldering a butt-load of LEDs and resistors together. Just food for thought.

Nah in order to get the kind of effect Meyers was talking about you need a good amount in the span of an inch or so on each side. It's gonna take a custom job to get the right packing of leds. I'll have to check my patent files again and see just how many we should be going for. I fugure that our diodes are stronger now so I'll try to adjust the amount needed to get the same effect by eye. Unless someone wants to calculate the amounts needed from todays leds. But we have alot of variables as well on that subject seeing that leds come in a vast array of sizes now as well.
I'll post later on the patent schems and drawings to let you see what he was upto. it seems he had a gas mixer then high voltage wave guide that was tapered on the end to compress the mixture then shoot it out the end. But in the schems that I have there is also an excess energy coil to soak up the extracted energy after the laser excitation of the gases then the taper wave guide. the whole process is protected by ball valves held by springs for the inlet of the water to protect the system. I think this one I have is an older diagram so you'll have to bear with me while I get back upto speed. This is the one I have atm.

Water for Fuel
any ony seen this?

Yeah chuukie, that's Kevins site and he going to give his version a try soon.

As for the type of LEDs everyone should look into ultra bright types that have 23k mcd or higher. Here is a list of 73 wavelengths for oxygen: http://astro.u-strasbg.fr/~koppen/discharge/oxygen.txt That way you can look into which ones seem to work on oxygen the best, but note there are more wavelengths that effect oxygen.

Remember have fun looking up which wavelengths do what to oxygen for this part is new to all of us.


h2opower.

PS Does everyone have an idea of how the injectors work now? For it is not like the WFC's way to split the water molecule.

"Thermal Atomic interaction (gmt) is caused when the combustible gas ions (from water) fail to
unite or form a Covalent Link-up or Covalent Bond between the water molecule atoms. as
illustrated in Figure (1-19). The oxygen atom having less than four covalent electrons (Electron
Extraction Process) is unable to reach "Stable-State" (six to eight covalent electrons required) when
the two hydrogen atoms seeks to form the water molecule during thermal gas ignition.
The absorbed Laser energy (Va. Vb and V c) weakens the "Electrical Bond" between the orbital
electrons and the nucleus of the atoms; while, at the same time, electrical attraction-force (qq'),
being stronger than "Normal" due to the lack of covalent electrons. "Locks Onto" and "Keeps" the
hydrogen electrons. These “abnormal” or “unstable” conditions cause the combustible gas ions to
over compensate and breakdown into thermal explosive energy (gmt)."

That is a direct quote from his Birth of a new Technology paper.

Just remember that his whole process the final end point of the spark plug was tapered. It is that way to facilitate the wave guide a kind of electric pump to compress and push the whole mixture out of the end to be ignited by spark or compression heat away from the unit.
One other note other then the ionizations of the ambient air and water mist everything kinda happened all at once. As he put it instantly.

Turning water into "Mirco-Capacitor" is yet another way to break the bonds of the water molecule and it has nothing to do with Dr. Faraday type electrolysis. We all know that water is a dielectric liquid and knowing this we know that all the rules of capacitances apply. As the dielectric liquid passes thru the voltage zones it picks up an image charge from the voltage zone that is on the capacitors plates of the injector. This image charge is then used to break the bonds of the water molecule by allowing the voltage to perform work. How? As the water molecules evaporate they lose size or that is to say the phyical area of the newly created miro-capacitors is decreasing at a rate faster than the relaxation time of the water molecule ability to lose the image charge they picked up. This is the very definition of how voltage preforms work.

Now there are two theories as to what is taking place;

One is the water molecules self destruct as the water molecules decrease in size due to the evaporation time is less than the relaxation time of water. Remember the relaxation time for water is є/σ< 10-6 seconds and for air є/σ> 10 seconds giving the water plenty of time to evaporate while still retaining its induced image charges from the injectors high voltage zone. Since water is polar it acts like a capacitor, but one that the area of the plates are decreasing and the charge is just about remaining constant. Once it reaches a critical size it self destrucks turning into hydrogen and oxygen.

or

This creates hydronium ions ( H3O+) and these ions can't exist in waters' evaporate state thus releasing one or more ( H9O4+) mono atomic hydrogen atom(s) per water droplet when the droplet size reaches a critical mass of not being able to support any hydronium ions. And the image charge picked up will not allow the hydronium ions to dissapate it's charge.

Again no one ever seemed to pick up on what Stanley Meyer was doing until now. He used two totally different ways to break down the water molecule that both were not apart of Dr. Faradays type of electronlysis. One breaks down the water molecule in a direct short condition and the other I just discribed.

That is the way the water fuel injectors work like a kelvin genarator and/or a Taylor cone.


h2opower.

h2opower

Do you think the speeds are fast enough that you can just mix the gases at the intake manifold and skip the whole complexity of building the injectors? Or will the O stabilize from the grounded engine block?

According to Stanley Meyer's patent yes, once the ionized gas is mixed with the atomized water mist that has be turned into miro-capacitors it is a flamable mixture. It is all in the patent for he speaks of safty factors and talks about that very thing. You do have to take my word for it, build the Gas Processor and test it out for yourself with a modified Kelvin genarator that has 20k volts at the ring or more. That is why I say understanding the system is far better than trying to back engineer the system with no understanding. Once you learn the way the system works you can make it work just by following the rules that Meyers had given.

Always strive for understanding, for once you learn the way the system works you can change the system to suit your needs.


h2opower.

I am cheating a little bit in your favor by telling you this, build the gas processor, then get a LPG/Hydrogen conversion system from here: Alternative Fuel CNG Engine Conversion LPG Hydrogen Erdgas. Use any hho system that produces 7L/min or more, (Boyces systems will do that with ease with just over 5amps of current draw) and away you go. But once you understand how the Gas Processor works fully you will also understand how Stanley Meyer's WFC works fully, hint, the WFC will not work without the EEC.

But another question you should have asked is, "How do you make mirco capacitors from water?" If you already know then in your next post answer that question, if you would be so kind.


h2opower.

Hi H2O

Just done some reading on electron spary and so on and found what you where refering to about micro caps in water.

It seems to Ionise the water( or the gasguns processed gas in conjunction) comming in we need to apply a high positve voltage onto a siringe needle.
This will create what you called a image charge on the substance you have injected.
In return a Coulomb Fission will form between Ions. meaning the ions will repel each other and will break up untill they are in their simplest form, beacause they are all the same charge now.

Although they still do not fully understand the full mode of operation there are 2 theories
Either the the molecule gets charged and starts repelling each other and whole the surface decreases due to Colomb Fission the become even more charged und breaks up even further into smaller particles
Or the voltage applied will exceed the suface tention and will casue the molecule to fall appart into smaller particles.

I hope this is write so far the votage neede looks small like in 3-5 k so thats easy

My question is though
do I only ionize the water like this and feed it with the primed gas form the gas gun ?

Thansk Digits

If you apply positive voltage you generate acid water... you need to apply hig voltage negative field.. you need to add more elctrons on water not strip electrons.. air must be ionized positively and water negatively.. There re availables some way not only one, important is that concept must be clear..

tutanka, you are correct, you will have to use negative high voltage in order to get a negative image charge.

I'm an italian private researcher... As many peoples I was focalized on standard ho cells but when I have read thred of H2OPOWER my mind has been illuminated. The way for obtain high amount of energyu is work in this direction but I think isn't present only one solution.. Importat is understand concept of functionality.... after is only question of intuition.. For it I think that isn't needed complicated circuits .. in nature don't exist anything of complicated.. all is simple.. and for this concept must be created an water system energy... simply using HV fields and imagination.. Regards

However I think that if someone of you has already realized an similar system it would have to share the experiences with others. This does not mean that it must slament give to the plans but only an indication.. Regards to all

Yes, that's the idea, but I found that in order to get water to break into hydrgen and oxygen it has threshold of about 20k volts depending on the frequency or so then you can pulse flow the water like an injector. It is why scienctist don't like to use water with a taylor cone for it evaporates, but what they didn't know was some of it was breaking up into hydrogen and oxygen. No one ever put a match to it, lol. That threshold also hold true for the Kelvin grenarator watch this video and pay attention to the single hook up or the one with the batteries, but Stanley Meyer applied 20k and higher to the ring: YouTube - Lec 9 | MIT 6.013 Electromagnetics and Applications, Fall 20 This video also helps explain how the WFC works in that it will stretch or elongate the water molecule and in the very next instant consume the negetive electron only causing an unbalancing of the equilbrium in water, then the water responds by releasing gases to restablish equalibrium. That is the importance of the EEC in the WFC.


h2opower

Yes, I think the water has more hydronium ions as a result due to the image charge placed on it. Remember there are, as far as I know, two ways to create these miro capacitors. One found in Kelvin Genarators and the other in Taylor Cones. Both people where trying to understand lightining storms better, and in doing so they started to unravel the mysteries of life it self. For our very own bodies us water in this fasion but on a miro scale with lots of different chemical interaction, plants too also do this.

But remember the rule: Ions
If an atom has more or less electrons than protons, that atom acquires an electrical charge. A shortage of electrons results in a positive charge; an excess of electrons gives a negative charge. The element's identity remains the same, no matter how great the excess or shortage of electrons. In the extreme case, all the electrons might be removed from an atom, leaving only the nucleus. However, it would still represent the same element as it would if it has all its electrons. A charged atom is called an ion. When a substance contains many ions, the material is said to be ionized.

Also know the rules of dielectrics in a capacitive field, but note water is a bit different than other substances, for no substance on earth can do the things that water can do, Carbon dioxide comes close but no dice. Due to the relaxation time of water the capacitive plates don't have to be parallel as shown in the Kelvin genarator video above. Professor Walter Lewin did an expirement lengthing the gap between the water suply and the charge ring to demonstraight that concept. This is something I don't think Stanley Meyer understood or his injector systems might have looked a lot different, but he did use both forms for the tappered one is closes to the Taylor cone in fuction.

The electro static precipitation chamber with coherent light enhansement(Gas Processor) bombards the air atoms with ions from the corona discharge, and on the off pulse times the photons having been chosen to hit oxygens wavelengths hit the oxygen atoms to not give them a break so they don't revert back to lower energy levels. The electron extraction grid consumes these freshly stripped electrons and lessons the chance that the oxygen atom will stabilize greatly and also prevents the creation of ozone in the process.

hope this helps,

h2opower

This would require two steps:

Create a potential difference

Separate the charges.

I guess I wasn't very clear, what I meant was what methods do we know of today that can create micro-capacitors from water? Answer is the Kelvin Genarators, and Taylor Cones. There might be more ways, but these are the two ways I know of on how to make micro-capacitors out of water. But you are correct but also water physical properties lend it to also doing so, mainly in that it is a dielectric liquid able to take on an image charge from a capacitive zone. The waters' dielectric properties also make it so the capacitor doesn't have to be parallel as seen in the demostration of the Kelvin Genarator due to the relaxtion time of water.

Then we can use gas law science to get the most out of the water molecule PV=nRT and the phase diagram of water. Albert Bowe's water motor is an good example of that use:
YouTube - The Water Manipulation Motor - Introduction (1 of 2)
YouTube - Water Manipulation Motor - the details (2 of 2)

Now using what you have learned about the Gas Processor imagine it being used on Albert Bowe's technology. This is why I say there are many ways to use water as a fuel source, and why I saw the Gas Processor is the key to the technology. For the Gas Processor can be used on different systems away from Stanley Meyer's patents. I gained a lot of understanding from Viktor Schauberger on the nature of water: Sacred Living Geometry -Enlightened Environmental Theories of Viktor Schauberger .


h2opower.