One more idea:
Might be useful to make the circuit design using a CAD program like Eagle 5 (http://www.cadsoftusa.com/index.htm.en). Demo version available. Reengineering gets easier and the circuit board layout can be given away ás a parameter file for fast and easy replication of the circuit board.

Greetings,
bussi04

Me too.

I think a good indication of the importance and relevance of a thread can be measured by the number of dis-informants and their efforts.

I'm only an occasional reader in the thread, I have read most of the available Stan stuff a year ago and seen the movies available, so I like to be up to date. But doing work in other threads, it is killing to have to read the nonsense posts also.

I would be thankful I you or h20power expressed your opinion on who the dis-informants are.

This is not censoring, as it still is my choice, if I put them on my ignore list.

If the word dis-informant is considered too strong a "stamp" on a member, Then the list could be described as a list of members with more noise than useful information in their too numerous posts.

IMHO this problem is increasing, so we need to be able to counter this better, in order to save time and do valuable work instead.

@h20power
Super thread

Eric

Hi Bussi04,

For the bobbins yes I have three now as it is easyer to wrap for me, and yes the fins on the bobbin caivities are a little off but I did the best I could all of them are done by hand. I ran the speeds too high on the lathe and heated up the delrin and it has heat bends in it like a bowl on some of them. Plus it was over 100 F when I was working on some of them and that didn't help much.

And when I say all the coils have to be matched up I am talking about individual bobbin cavities one from each, since there are four coils then this has to be done four times for a number count for the whole bobbin cavity. So that is each bobbin cavity has to have the same inductance and once you have one bobbin cavity you will have it for the whole set.

40.8 is a great place to start, I am going for 42.712 as water seems to have some resonance in that area from looking at the work of others . But the main thing is to bring the circuity into resonance so nothing burns up when you go to drive them.

Now what is a image charge? Method of image charges - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now why is this important? Water is a dielectric liquid as a result it can pick up an image charge from pass through voltage zone. But water can only handle around 20k volts of charge at this point the water molecule will split into two droplets and the voltage is divided between the two. The Kelvin water droper expirement shows water hitting this voltage threshold: Physics – A Physics Lecture in MIT – “Water Battery”

Now why is that important to us? If the voltage zone has a pulsating power supply the droplets that divided due to this action will be recharged and the water droplet will spilt again, and be recharged again. While it is in the voltage zone the water droplet will be charged, split, recharged, split, and the process goes on until the water reaches a sort of critical mass and it seperates into it's componet elements hydrogen and oxygen.
To aid this the phase diagram of water is used in that water at a high temperture high pressure will remain in a liquid state but if injected into a low pressure zone at the same temperture the water will instantly turn into a vapor. Using this knowlegde of water we set out to give the image charge breakdown of the water molecule a head start.

This process of charge divid and charge again is an accelerating one, in that the surface area of the water molecule to be charged keeps getting less and less. This drawing gives a visual representation of that process taking place:

In all of this shows the science of the water fuel injectors for this is how they work to break down the water molecule in to it's componet elements hydrogen and oxygen. It is all done by taking full advantage of all the properties of the water molecule into account.

Now if you have an injection system that returns the water to the source tank you can, like in the water droplet expirements, build up the voltage in the storage tank giving you yet another head start. There must be no grounds in the system or the voltage will not build up. For you see what happens when the bucket is grounded and/or shorted.


h2opower.

HI H2opower,
I have start my experiment .. I need only an little rensponse from you .. I need to know if you have idea about chemical composition of exaust gas after thermal explosive energy.. Thanks in advance..

I agree.
I disagree.
Why use non-free limited demo versions for open source research, when you can use cross platform (Linux, MAC, M$) intuitive, free, full fledged open source program for diagrams and PCB layout. You can even see your PCB in 3D view.

KiCAD: Information from Answers.com

Yes

All kicad files are open format text files, which makes them very suited for version control.

I use svn (subversion) with RapidSVN as graphical interface. Very easy to use. I consider version control as a thing I could not even dream of missing, it keeps track of your work, so you can always retrieve older versions and have differences pointed out by the extremely useful "meld" program integrated.

If you use the free Ubuntu Linux OS which installs like a dream (www.ubuntu.com), all these programs are installed by setting check marks in the "Synaptic package manager" graphical installer program.

M$ svn program name is TortoiseSVN . This free open source program is integrated in the file manager (plugin), also a very intuitive, diff program is integrated.

Svn is also available for the Mac.

Eric

@h20power

Although I consider using water on the lathe a nuisance because of the water spraying around, it can keep your delrin cool.

Eric

Here is Meyer's News release number 3. Good reading for all of us.
Thanks h2opower.

Here is Meyer's News Release number 4. Thanks again h2opower.

Thanks Chasson321,

That should help everyone to understand Stanley Meyers work a bit better.

Tecstatic, I have to learn how to use such programs is the hardest part for me. I do agree that by sharing we can inproove Meyer circuits and bring them up to date with circuitry Meyer never had available to him before his untimely death.

Just like the LEDs he had to use in his time don't even compare to the ones we have today so also is true about the advances in electronics, for if memory serves me right wasn't top of the line CPU's 75MHz or something like that?

I present the understanding of Stanley Meyer's patent bringing science to them when none exsisted before. He only would sound off words of importance but not talk about why those words where important. Words like "Water is a dielectric liquid" and "utilizing the properties of water" and as far as I know he only mentions the "4th energy level or more" once in his all of his patents. That last one makes no sense put in any other context other than with the stripping of the electrons from oxygen and the resulting energy content of the reaction after the said energy levels are reached.

Now with the concern of coherent light you choose to use you have to hit the oxygen atoms at the correct resonance wavelengths or the atoms will not absorb the energy. You can't just put any wavelength of light you want in there it has to be light that the atom can absorb. For example if you put 405 nm in there oxygen will not absorb that wavelength so nothing will happen. Some wavelengths for oxygen:
398.220
406.990
407.216
407.587
408.391
408.714
408.927
409.724
410.500
As you can see from the list you would have missed oxygens absorbtion spectrum. If you miss the absorbtion spectrum the nucleous will not absorb energy and thus will not push the electrons about it further away from the center so they can be stripped off in what Meyer calls destablizing the atoms. So it is very important you ask or do research on the LEDs you chose to use to find out what wavelengths they actrually put out.

As you can see we are now moving forwards


h2opower.

Thanks again chasson321

Now everyone read these okay? Look at page 5 talking about the Gas Resonant Cavity and you will see that it is the oxygen atom Meyer's talks about being strip of electrons and then locking on to the hydrogen atom. As I began to learn just what Stanley Meyer had done I had all of these to read to help me understand what was being done to the water molecule to make use of it as a source of fuel. I had more but a really bad computer attack made me lose a lot of filles ones showing Meyer's retrofiting a Corrvet and a small plane and some sort of SUV I couldn't make out what type. This technology is real folks as you can gather by reading the news releases. It was lost when Stanley Meyer passed but now we are getting back on track with even more goals towards energy independance for all.

We can do this


h2opower.

H20 Have you ever imagined that meyer used laser energy to overcome the surface potential barrier of his electrodes as to have better emission as to have collision and not the way he explained? or not exactly the way he explained?

anyway thank you for coming and read my thread

hey buddy its nice to read all the good information ur giving
i would like to add a few circuits which i think may help us out,
but not sure which one,

Thanks so much paulsonaivy.


with some changes though I will make it with the EEC and LED driver seperated or not sharing a FET.
This is the original circuit for comparison.

Note that the veriable voltage control comes from the FET PNP going into the primary coil of the VIC transformer, that is where the RPM and other torque sensing voltages will come in for full control of the system throughout the RPM ranges.

Now this is Meyer's voltage control circuit:

and the cell driver circuit:

So we have something to compare everything to what Stanley Meyer was using.

Now those nice cpu chips bossi04 showed would be a nice up grade.

Things are going a lot smoother now without all of the attemps to keep us stuck in theory and/or keeping me defending my mathmatical theory I am following. Everyone owes a big thanks to Joit


h2opower.

I think that the pulsing of the EEC must be differently wired:

The input of the inverter 4001 nearby the "Electron Extraction Grid" shall be wired to the point labeled "switch". It must not be grounded.

greetings,
bussi04

This was done by HMS-776, the main thing that the EEC must do is pulse 180 of the gas processors pulsing and the LEDs pulse with the EEC. This is just a starting point for us to work with. I think your right with Q4-Q5 and think that all imputs go to 'J' on Meyer's Voltage Amplitude Control circuit. The following manual adjustments must be for stablizing the engine at idle speeds there are two of them. I have ask HMS-776 to give some imput but he might be buisy with other things, we will have to wait and see. Now Meyer has this as his LED control:


What do you make of it and where would it go? Here is another circuit that it might go to:
a


h2opower.

Hi how are you keeping?

Listen dont try and explain yourself to those bozo's cause i don't
Havent been here for a while I am working my butt off not on the GP though I'll carry on this weekend though Thanks and keep up the good work.

Digits

I'm keeping fine now that I put all of them on the ignor list, things are running smoothly again, and I am able to share a whole lot more. With those individuals in the mix I found my hands to be tide most of the time on theory explaining, and methods to use. I have been very clear in the mathmatical model I am following and as always putting science in the game to Stanley Meyer's work. Welcome back any good news to report? A lot has been said in the time since you have been here, so I'll give you time to go over it all and you can get back to me if you have any question.

I think that should do it, for now everyone knows how every individual part works in Stanley Meyer's technology. I just started going over the electronics, a part where I could use a helping hand, and everyone now knows that the pulsing of the EEC and LEDs are 180 of the GP's or any other thing is it hooked up to like the WFC and possible the injectors. Knowing that will aid everyone in designing a circuit that works for many types of cars.

Again, welcome back


h2opower.

H2o,
Have you ever checked out the oscillation overthruster circuit? Is it something we could possibly use? I don't know If it would suit our needs so someone with some electronics know how will have to judge. Here is the link to the site with more info.
Stomping in Clown Shoes » WFC PLL – the Oscillation Overthruster

Attached Images

oscillation_overthruster_schematic.jpg (21.3 KB, 34 views)

Anyone have idea what is element indicated in image?? Regards

Attached Images

eec_expl.jpg (33.6 KB, 40 views)

I read the whole page on the site and found it very interesting. Zero fosile fuel was so close just no EEC and a non functional VIC transformer. But I think he got the circuit right for the questions he was asking. Very nice reading, thanks.


h2opower.

that would be a lamp tutanka

That 4046 PLL resonant locking /scanning circuit with the GP additions is not correct. That was an early design, I have learned much since then.

A few points to keep in mind:

The GP VIC does not have chokes (since it requires an off time in which the LED's and EEC are pulsed).

If done correctly, the PLL resonant scanning locking circuit is not needed!

Stan States that the EEC can use the positive electrode of the Gas Processor. (I believe it's in pat 5,293,857).

The principle of electrostatic Induction (also known as polarization) is widely used in Meyers work. It is shown in multiple locations throughout the Tech brief in drawings of the Gas processor, WFC, and Injectors. When you see the negative electrode grounded, you must understand why.

In a capacitor with the negative electrode grounded, a negative voltage is formed on the inside of the electrode. We know in physics that opposites attract, and that's what happens here. The positive charged electrode causes the grounded electrode's electrons to cluster near the positive charge, causing a negative charge equal to the positive charge.

Meyer Even Stated this in the TB on page 8-3.

There are multiple diagrams in the Tech Brief of the Gas Processor, The WFC, and the Injectors which show the negative electrode grounded.
Meyer states opposite voltage splits the POLAR water molecule.

The GP only needs the positive electrode to be charged (as long as the capacitor plates are close enough so electrostatic induction can take place)

I think a Ignition coil or something similiar would do quite well.

You are sure?? Isn't designed as an lamp on diagram...

With optoschmitts that send a high signal on lit instead of dark, we can eliminate A2 and all the safety logic for the accelerator pedal.
Originally A1 was sensing 5 vdc on all pins except the one that was blocked, and A2 was designed logically into the circuit to monitor the output rail of the infrared LEDs, so that if any were dead there would not result a runaway engine condition. In the diagram posted from Figure 2, the simpler version would be to reverse the logic on A1's input. If any LED's fail then the engine will simply have a non responsive "dead Spot" in the acceleration.
My new version was designed by accident when i realized that the moving metal blockage could be changed to a moving slot that allowed one led at a time to pass light to its corresponding optoschmitt sensor... with this design many of the logic chips and components can be eliminated...see attached image
If you like duplicate the circuit in Logisim, make sure to turn on one of the inputs to A1 and watch the outputs alternate at different speeds based on the input chosen

The A1 chip is a CD 4067b

I will be making one of these figure 2 devices soon as a coffee table conversation piece... a sort of toy accelerator pedal for guests to admire.

theres a guy on ebay selling 12 dollar optoschmitt sensor / LED combos for .99 cents each! and he ships quickly

I think figure 2&3 can be taken out completely on 'J' (fig 4) is where you put in engine senors for control of the engine like; RPM, torque sensing, ..ect. The main thing is that this circuit was ment for the gaseous injection system and we are trying to addapt it for the Gas Processor/EEC/LED Driver. We will need another one to drive the water fuel injectors.

I have also looked over the whole large circuit and think I have found the place to add in the LED driver and EEC circuit, right where it says 'switch' near the primary coil for right there is what we are looking for something pulsing 180 degrees of the Gas Processor. What are everyones thoughts on that.

Now HMS-776 is right about the EEC can be the same as the positive on the GP, but ask yourself this, "If the air speeds are around 32ft/sec or more where do you have the best chance to catch the electrons, A. Inline with the air flow as in the tube? or B. Perpendicular to the air flow as in a mesh screen?

As for grounding the units to the casy, that is a no go. On figure 10-5 in the SMTB Stanley Meyer shows why it is nessasary to have the secondary and chokes an isolated unit. Figure 10-5 shows that the diferance in potential is double for the negetive is not at zero but the same in magnitude of the postive just opposite polarity. Plus in the WFC if you hook up the EEC like you are suposed to do sharing the postive with the VIC transformer and the negetive is grounded, when the EEC turns on it will sense the ground and you will have standerd Faraday type electrolysis. It has to be an isolated circuit the VIC transformer for those two reasons.

As for not needing the PLL circuit I can see why it would not, for the air has a dielectric value of aproximently one and it does not change with pressure or tempreture very much, but it does change with humidity, so I think better safe than sorry, for I would hate to break down in the middle of desert due to it rained really hard and the dielectric value changed and you burned out the VIC from driving it while out of reasonance.

On the VIC for the GP I will use the one with the chokes for it is one I have already given a periode of instruction on how to build them with the chokes being fully ballance with the secondary and primary coils. But you can use what every works for you is my thinking. So, I leave that choice up to the individual builders of which they want to use. Without the chokes it will be more or less like a typical transformer no more voltage step ups when the voltage pulse ends it will have to be done by the windings ratio.


h2opower.

Why secondary pickup coils are so big ? For normal sensing resonant frequency it should be just a few turns coil.
It doesn't match with PLL circuit, so the only answer is that PLL circuit is not for Meyer transformer.

I agree to wiring the EEC circuit to label "switch".

But: what about creating a pulse-train with chokes and then led and eec-interaction in the pause after pulse-train (like in the waterfuel cell)?
do we need a pulse train or continious pulsing?

greetings,
bussi04

That will have to be tested out for no one has gotten this far before. I was thinking about the same thing and looked up a few words I didn't fully understand and found this: Ultrashort pulse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Now I am not sure how this relates to what we are doing I just have a strong feeling that it does. So on the off pulse of the GP we would then need a very sharpe pulse or pulses of coherent light. But sense the LEDs we have are so much stronger than the ones Meyer had to use in his time all we might really need to do is make sure the ones we choose hits the oxygen atoms wavelength so the oxygen absorbs the energy and pushes the electrons away from its center.

As far as I know the K-17 circuit of Meyers isn't out for us to view and that one controls the LEDs. I have also given some thought into using LED pulsing circuit chips or better known as LED drivers, but since I have so many LEDs I would have to buy a few of them.


h2opower.

Referring to my above post # 1042. This diagram from Stan Meyers Pat # 4,826,581 shows what I described above.

Explanation of The Diagram:


-The High Intensity Voltage circuit (far right) does not have any chokes, it has only a primary and secondary coil, the secondary is grounded, the only applied voltage is a positive voltage to the positive electrode. Chokes are only used when a continuous voltage is needed such as in the WFC to prevent the water molecule from having a relaxation period.

-The negative electrode (far left) shown in the diagram is grounded, this is one example of polarization (electrostatic inudction). Though there is still a negative voltage present on the inner part of the electrode (nearest the positive charge). It is the nearby positive charge which causes the electrons of the grounded electrode to cluster towards it, creating the negative charge known as electrostatic induction, or simply polarization.



In Paragraph 3 of the same patent you'll read:

Now that above quote also states that the applied voltage in the Gas Processor is a Polar (Singluar) Voltage.

Also note that the applied frequency INDUCES resonance of the electrons.

Just a few things to point out. I think the GP can be made in a few different ways, but the simpliest way will be the most successful. And I'm just trying to figure out the simpliest way through clues left in Meyers work, like the drawing and explanations above.

I think Stan Made the GP small for a few reasons, 1st, the airflow required to be ionized and excited to get the proper energy was very small. Remember when using the Gas Processor 1 gallon of water has more energy than 40,000 Barrels of oil, and possibly over 1.5 Million if recirculated and reused!

Secondly, The tubes are very close together, so as to take advantage of electrostatic induction, which simplifies the transformer required and the whole GP as the negative voltage is created, or induced by the positive voltage (creating the electron clustering effect/negative voltage).

And thirdly, the tubes (electrodes) are small in size. I think the reason is in the fact of charge distribution. If the area is smaller a lower voltage charge will be required to get the desired effects of ionization. This was known by Meyer and was the reason for the Taper in his Water Fuel Injectors.

Now I am going to show everyone how to measure something that has no scale. The LEDs are aproximently 5mm agree'ed? So you make a legun to measure with from them, and in doing so you will see that the gap between the electrodes is about 1cm or more. That is how Architecs measure things in a picture any picture pick something known and make a scale from that known object for the picture. That is something that is hard to do in 3D but in 2D very easy.

As for the rest I didn't ask you to come here to argue with me, but to help if you could with the electronics. In every design the end user will have to build their own water for fuel system as they see fit. You bring out good points but talk of old Meyer technology. Everything I talk about for the most part is of the fuel injections system as a whole or end product prior to his death. I will aid people that want to know how the WFC works but not focuse my talks on it. Going over the electronics is all that is left to do, the steam resonator is covered very well in Meyer's patents, all the rest I talk about are things missing and or things having a lot of questions around them.
In the diagram you shown the gases running through the gas processor are combustable meaning he is talking about the Gas Gun, for the gas processor on the car only has ambent air running through it and is a simplfied drawing of Meyer work. Who's to say if the grounds shown are isolated grounds or not? But when talking about the use of a VIC transformer Meyer always adds that it is an isolated circuit for the most part.

Again this is why no one to this date has ever had a working WFC for they grounded the negetive and never had an EEC hooked up to it. The EEC is hooked directly to the positive, pulsed through a FET, to a blocking diode, an amp consuming device, and then the postive electrode to the WFC. If the system is grounded when the EEC is on it will sense the ground and a positive/negetive conection will be made and current flow through the water will take place just as normal everyday Dr. Faraday electrolysis. If it is isolated any negetive electrons or ions will be attracted to the positive charge and the amp consuming device will start consuming negetive electrons/ions as a result.

Alternators work completely different, the RPM's makes the resonance not pulsing the field windings and the three coil sets in the stator are hooked up just like the simplified drawing shows. One is to apply a voltage to the field windings and use a pwm for the motor and adjust it to resonance with the water. The guy on the back of Stanley Meyer buggy was doing just that, keeping the rpm's in resonance with the water molecule through the circuitry. But I am willing to bet no one is willing to try this for it seems far to simple and all that needs to be done is a simple rewiring. In this way it work much like a Boyce system except the voltage can be raised independently of the system for it is isolated from it. Meyer says the alternator is being used as an amp restrictor and that makes the use of two of the coils in the stator to be used as chokes. One has to pay attention to the start and end of the stators windings and hook it up just as the Meyer patent says it is to be hooked up. The alternator is for the most part a VIC transformer in that it has bobbins just like the VIC transformer and each of the little coil loops after the magnetic field pass through it has an reactance charge that multiplies through the rest of the coils sets. In doing this type of set up the water in the WFC should get colder for at resonance just like Dr. Lindemann says voltage turns to amps but what is not known is the water becomes the EEC. Things that change the resonance are the amount of gas produced, the tempreture, the quality of the water and the contaminates in the water, so I would imagine it would be very hard to keep the rpms in resonance with a system like that so Meyer made some changes.

In chapter ten Meyer had changed things and sperate choke coils where added so that makes it hard to follow for he changes things but doesn't say hey I made some changes.

Now I don't want to fight with you on anything, okay? I just want to finish up the circuitry. The math is done and the science learned now we just need to put the circuit together the right way so we have control of it and then can make it useable to the whole world. For me this is the last step, car already picked out, Gas Processor already made, VIC transformer in the works, and injector modifications being planned out. Sure I have more work ahead of me of that I am sure but that is where I am with this technology ready for engine trails. Just have to make sure the circuitry is up to par.


h2opower.