Thanks for posting about this Rosco. There are more synchronicities than I have time to type!

Anyway, this link has 5 patents by Harvey Kiker on this method.

Harvey Kiker | Patents | Kiker Performance Products

The battery booster patent and the spark plug wire patent...the latest spark plug patent shows a smaller wire wrapped around the larger wire.

Homepage:
Kiker Performance Products

I would recommend everyone read the patents first then do the analysis of the S1R coil to see what similarities are there. The patents are short, easy and straight forward.

Hi everyone,

I think the 5 wrap coil may have several applications which could benefit us here.

When I look at patent #1, I reason that there could be a positive result when incorporating this design into a power supply link/cable to a HHO gen.

Could it "boost" the electrolysis event in both "brute force" and PWM controlled HHO gens?

In fact, all 5 patents are highly interesting to me.

I have information here which suggests that the position of the 5 wrap coil, relative to the length of the cable, and intended purpose, has a direct bearing on the results obtained. It could be that we will need to "tune" the cable for optimum results.

Also, when applying the 5 wrap coil to a spark plug lead, again, the positioning of the 5 wrap coil will need to be "tuned" for optimum gain.
About 6 inched between the end of the lead that connects to the spark plug looks to be the starting point. Moving the coil + or - and inch or so, may affect the spark potential, so special care needs to be given to this.

Regards,
Ross.

I work in the airconditioning installation industry and guess what I had sitting in my shed! A 4 m roll of copper tubing ID 1.3mm OD 2.58mm. Ok, not exactly the same size but worth a shot! It looks simple enough from the patents, any suggestions before I jump in?

Jeff

I'll post a vid and pics of my replication of the battery booster one.

Built this yesterday...about $15 in parts retail cost.





2.5" ID of coil
5 turns
1/4" od copper tube
Vinyl tubing over tube for insulation
battery clamp from Shucks

From battery clamp to bottom of coil (before extra piece is soldered)
is 5 feet long. Then I added 1 extra foot to reach the starter.

Will post vid soon.

Hmmm...

Kiker Performance Product 5
Looks like the one he is selling has smaller diameter loop then what his patent specifies...possibly.

Also, he leaves the normal cable from the starter and just puts that in series.

I'm going to just put the whole tube to the starter and not just in series.

That will be a lower resistance connection than what he shows. Maybe not necessary, I don't know.

Anyway, I'll post more when I'm done installing it.

Aaron,

I've never heard or seen this before, went to the web site and am really confused with this whole concept. The battery cable for instance, auto manufactures on an average use a #4 AWG CU wire rated at 95 amps for the battery connections.

General Spec's
1) CU wire dia. (.232 in) Strands 7 @ (.077 dia)

CU Tube Product Spec's
1) Outside dia. (.250 in) Inside dia. (.125 in)

As I'm sure you know the electrical current flows on the exterior or surface of the wire or anything conductive.

The formula for Round Surface Area is - 2 x PI x R x H = sq.in.
(R= radius, H= height)

Given that formula - a 1" long item

The tube has - 1.17 sq.in. surface area
The wire has - 1.69 sq.in surface area

The tube having a loss of - .52 sq.in. surface area (a hefty percentage)

Where does the current loss go into magnetism or is it a loss all together, I don't understand this concept, a vehicle needs what current it needs not a loss in current ??

(a starter uses between 1.2 - 1.8 kw at 12V DC nominal)

Any comments ?

Glen

I've just recieved an email from the Kikers, and they're not happy that their product is being discussed and shown on this site, and they've asked for it to be removed.

Hi Aaron,

That's quite a coil you have there. Actually, the Kiker specs suggest a 2.5 inch through pass diameter for the battery lead coil, and with 1/4 inch o.d. tubing the coil outside diameter would be 3 inches. Kiker says that up to 5 inches o.d. can be utilized for heftier installations, though.

I don't imagine that you ran the smaller tubing inside that, which Kiker says is the "preferred" configuration for the battery to starter tube. You would have to use some rather thin insulating material on the smaller tubing to be able to fit it inside the 1/4" tubing, which has an i.d of 3/16". The advised size of the inner tubing is 1/8" o.d. x 1/16" i.d, so the insulation layer thickness would be less than 1/32
(.031) inch.

Did you bend the tubing coils freehand? A few kinks are visible, and I'm not certain if that will have any adverse effect, but likely that it may. A tubing bender tool would be handy for making these coils, especially for the larger tubing sizes, while it may be easy enough to wind the 1/8" spark tubes on a 1/4inch mandrel without any problems if wound slowly and with caution.

I'm now wondering how much benefit I may be able to achieve if using both the spark tubes and Battery connector cables in my Prius. Two motor/generators in that, and an efficiency hike could really add up.

The Kiker spark tubes use the same 1/8" o.d. copper tubing mentioned above, and the same 5-turn counter-clockwise wound coil, but the coil location is close (2 to 3") to the spark plug end of the tube, wheareas the battery cable tubing suggests a preferred location for the coil being midway along the tube length. It seems that a relatively short battery cable tube, hooked to the end of the stock battery cable, is sufficent for the desired results. That type of configuration was also used initially with the spark tubes being addes ahead of the stack plug wires, and while it initially worked just fine, the stock plug wires soon developed problems, as they couldn't handle the boosted output. Stock battery cables, though, should not suffer from that problem, as they are built beefy and have high conductance/low resistance. The Kiker effect, once initiated, has no problem in continuing, unless suppressed by high resistance wiring.

Kiker seems to think that having the coil turns tightly compressed against each other is an important factor, and he uses a cable tie to compress and bind them in that manner, later hot-dipping the tube in an insulating coating. When making up the coiled tubing at home, you can't maintain the tight relationship of the coil windings if you place insulative tubing over the lengtyh of the copper tubing before you form the coils. I would suggest, instead, that you first form and bind the coils, and paint them with 3 or four coats of Tool Dip, allowing sufficient curing time between coatings. Then install the insulation tubing to cover the remaining exposed areas of tubing on each end of the painted coils.

When winding the coils: Notice, in any diagram showing the 5 -turn coil, the coil is not only wound counter-clockwise, but is also laid backwards 5 degrees from perpendicular, as found here: Spark tube design.jpg - Windows Live SkyDrive There is definitely a reason why that angle is important to the design, so use the same alignment for best results.

You will notice that in the latest adaptation of the spark tubes, a coiled solid wire of small diameter is applied over the insulating layer of the tube in at least two locations, and then it is also covered in insulation. If adding that adaptation to your build, the solid wire should be 1/10 the outside diameter of the copper tubing used. So for 1/8" copper tubing that would be 1/80", or 0.0125" diameter wire. Notice also that these wire windings are wound in the opposite direction of the 5-turn coils, as evidenced here: Final spark tube design.jpg - Windows Live SkyDrive Notice this diagram also shows the binding of the 5-turn coil by use of a tie, shown in dotted lines.

In thinking about why tubing makes so much better a spark or battery cable connector, I know that the path of greatest resistance is through the center of a conductor. That's why most of the applied current travels along the outer sectional area of the conductor. Removing the path of greatest resistance by using a hollow tube makes a lot of sense, and so does the
5-turn coil. Resistance on these tubes is said to be near zero ohms. The enhancement with the small diameter windings helps counter the inductive reactance of the 5-turn coil, since the coiling is done in the opposite direction, and also adds further elongation to the spark interval. Unlike the sparktubes, Kiker suggests winding the small wires on plastic tubing or straps for the coilto battery, and coil to distributor wiring. Naturally, these wires should also be well insulated after being made up. See the overall installation view here: Spark tube engine installation.jpg - Windows Live SkyDrive

Hope this proves useful to those who want to do a build, and helps avoid the time spent in researching the patents, by getting right down to the nitty-gritty details which are involved.

Best to all, Rick

Hi Glen,

I have no idea what the whole deal on this is but for $15 in parts, I'll try it.

I think you would have to double the surface area of the tube since you have the inner surface as well.

Rosco,

Their product is patented, which gives anyone the right to make their own to demonstrate the principle to themselves. Nobody here is doing any of this for commercial use. If I make one, I'm free to post all the picture I want of it and am free to point anyone to the patent. The idea and concept is public information as the patent is public information. I'll consult my own advisers and if there is some legal reason why I should remove any of this, I will.

There is hardly anyone that is interested in building things themselves and if anything, I would imagine they would be happy for the free advertising. I'm not interested in making waves for a company that is helping to increase gas mileage. But again, none of their copyrighted pictures or information is displayed in this website and they cannot prevent anyone from posting a patent that is public information.

Feel free to have them contact us at info @ esmhome.org with their desires and reasons of why the info should be removed.

I did,

Tube-
2 x Pi x .125 (r)= .785 + 2 x .0625 (r)= .392 > .785 + .392 = 1.177

Wire-
2 x Pi x .038 (r)= .238 X (strands) 7 = 1.666

I hope my math is ok, gettin old,

Glen

I agree, I just wanted to let you know that we are causing concern.

Our covering of this topic could and indeed should, be looked at postively, for if we highlight that this particular principal has merit, as I believe it does, it can only boost sales for the inventor, which can't be a negative thing.

I'm more than happy to purchase these products directly from the designer, and likely will, after I've established what I require. Yet as we are only guessing at this stage, as to what this principal is truly capable of, and it could be that we require modifications away from the original design, which the designer could have covered, and exploited should he have the desire to do so, thus, it's puzzling that they have adopted this stance. Hmmmm.

I'd have liked the inventor to have offered his assistance in determining what, in fact, could be the best approach to solving the puzzle, as he sees it.

With regard to that battery cable you made, I've seen this principal before, many years ago, yet for the life of me, I can't recall where.

You need to cut that long length off the end of it, and just fit the coil at a certain point along the existing line, the distance?? Who knows? The actual positioning of the coil is not known yet, but I feel it's crucial to achieving any gain. "Tuning" this thing will perhaps be time consuming. Input from the inventor could have saved time.

I note that certain UHF antennas use 4 wraps on the coil, and sometimes 2x4 wraps, and as such, we could perhaps be barking up the wrong tree here, with regard to the amount of wraps we require for our purposes, so without assistance from anyone, we are only left to look into this for ourselves.

Ahhh, the road is ever long.......

Actually, Glen, this is often confused. To simplify things, think of how the tubes surface area would be measured if the tube was separated at a joint and flattened out like a sheet of paper. Then the area would be width x length. The correct method of finding surface area for a tube is to multply the inch measurement of the circumference (either inside or outside) by the inch measurement of the height (or length, in this case) of the tube. The formula for circumference is Pi times the diameter (inside or outside diameter). Thus, for a 1 inch long copper tube with 1/8" (0.125") outside diameter, the surface area would be ((3.143 x .125) x 1), or 0.393 square inches, as rounded up. The diameter of the tube's interior is 1/16" (0.0625"), so the surface area of the interior wall would be ((3.143 x .0625) x 1), or 0.196 square inches, as rounded down. The combined area is thus 0.393 + 0.196, or 0.589 square inches, which of course is 0.196 square inches in addition to what a solid conductor would provide in terms of surface area (laterally). That's a whopping 58.5% increase, by the way. (1.585 x .393 = .623)

So the first principle involved here is that you take away the highest resistance path of a conductor, by giving it a hollow center, and this gives you an additional conductive path of lesser, but substantial surface area.

Hey, Glen, I like that photo of the cat with the sun glasses on. A cool cat!

Best regards, Rick

Just don't look down Jeff......don't look down.

For fear of attracting unwanted criticism, I'll now refer to the coil wraps as meanders.

I use this link as support for the name change, and I'd like everyone to see what "meandering" around with this principal appears to do when employed elsewhere.

Water splitting by HF

Note the number of "meanders" in those pics?

Hey Rick,

The quickest formula I could set my hands on for you that I use is -

Area - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The formula is for a cylinder or tube (exterior) -

2 x Pi x r2 + 2 x Pi x r x h

Tubing - .250 od x .125 id (.125 r x .0625 r)

OD - .098 + .785 = .883 sq.in.
ID - .024 + .392 = .416 sq.in

(OD + ID) .883 + .416 = 1.299 sq.in. Total

Wire - .077 dia. x 7 (strands) #4AWG CU WIRE "95 amps" NOTE-(AWG cir.mil. "is" AWG cir.mil. regardless of strand qty.)

.009 + .238 = .247 sq.in. (1-strand)

.247 x 7 (strands) = 1.729 sq.in.

1.729 Wire sq.in.
1.299 Tube sq.in.

.430 sq.in smaller the tube is

I'm sure this is the correct formula, radius squared not diameter ?

Regards,
Glen

Attached Images

cylarea.JPG (10.9 KB, 25 views)

Hi Rick,

I wound the tube around a 2.5" diameter can of AC refrigerant and did get some minor kinks. I didn't do the double tube method..just single.

On the Kiker site on how it works link, it says these make a magnetic field in the engine bay that help to ionize the fuel for better combustion. They're air core so magnetic field will be much weaker than with a core but the concept sounds feasible.

I'll post any results.

Be interesting to see what magnetic fields do with the water in the water spark circuit.

To make the spark plug wire with the Kiker method, I guess you have to take the boots from some existing wire sets or get just the boots. If you type in SPARK PLUG BOOTS in google, there are companies selling boots by themselves...but I'd imagine getting ones without built in resistors are preferable.

See this for a spark prolonger:
Ralph Bergstresser| Device for Prolonging Ignition Spark | US Patent 3,939,814

Kiker replication did give a more energetic spark as you can see in the increased brightness in the second video.

Sorry for the disappointing quality also the earth cage which is changable for testing purposes moved during installation virtually eliminating the dancing spark.

YouTube - Ball Spark Plug firing in pressure chamber

YouTube - Ball Spark Plug in pressure chamber with Kiker replication s

That's great Ozicell!

If you or Rosco can make a thread on "how to make a simple compression chamber for spark plug tests for dummies" that would be awesome! I can think of a few ways but I would rather take your advice.

Do you have a CDI you can do with or without Kiker?

Hi Aaron,

Could you please elaborate on your last question. CDI?

The pressure chamber is a sinch! It's a piece of sewer pipe, any gluing MUST be first cleaned, primed then only use PVC pressure glue. I cut a hole in the lid and siliconed a piece of Lexan (polycarbonate) for viewing. The longest part is waiting for the glue and silicon to dry. 1 hole drilled and tapped for the plug - I used teflon tape to improve the seal and a hole drilled for the guage leads, this connector must have a schroder valve depressor section. I have nitrogen and guages on hand for use in my air con business so the rest is history. I'll take some pics and post them.

Cheers
Jeff

I just split the screen and watched both vids side by side and there is a very noticable improvement in spark generation. I think tommorrow I'll make me a full set!

Thanks for the info!

CDI is Capacitive Discharge Ignition...can buy the modules from any performance shop. It connects to an ignition coil and the primary of the ignition coil is powered by a capacitor discharging into it instead of 12 volts. I have a CDI and I took it apart to look in it and the cap was 500v 2uf or 4uf..hard to see. CDI gives a stronger spark all by itself.

Top work Jeff,

I'm not sure how you went with replicating the Kiker wire, as your pics aren't available yet.

Know that the "coil" on the replication will need to "tried" about 6 inches from the plug to begin with, then perhaps "tuned" either + or - an inch or so, either way, until the sweet spot is arrived at. This may be related to the coil output you're using.

The angle of the coil in relation to the mean direction of the lead may have relevance too, as will closeness of the coil wraps themselves.

I'm not sure what ignition device you used, was it on a running engine?

If so, was it a HEI ignition?

What gap did you use? 3mm, as per the Firestorm?

Know too, that the "Firestorm" reportedly achieves quantum 4, and the Kiker wire will take it beyond there, so keep that in mind. Also note, the inventor of the Firestorm is reportedly intending to utilise the Kiker wire, so yes, you appear to be on the right track.

My tests were done on a running 253 V8, utilising number 1 spark plug lead. It has a 50,000v coil in cap HEI.

My pressure bell isn't home made, I actually purchased it on Ebay. It's an ancient spark plug tester. A lot of these old testers had pressure bells fitted. They're still available, but given their antiquity, are sometimes not so easy to find.

I have to rewind my battery booster in the opposite direction and will make the diameter smaller and might be able to get 2 extra winds on it.

Glen wrote, " I'm sure this is the correct formula, radius squared not diameter?"

Sorry Glen, but no. The formula you are using is for a solid cylinder, and figures the total surface area of all geometrically exposed surfaces, including the surface of the 2 ends of the cylinder. The area of each end would be 3.143 x the radius squared, and thus your formula states 2x that amount to include both ends. The ends don't even come into consideration when figuring surface area of battery cables, because the cable terminates on the outer surface at a cable clamp or ring terminal. So you need to simply figure the lateral surface area, which your Wikipedia source will show as 2 x Pi x radius x height, and that's exactly the same as figuring the more simply stated Pi x diameter x height. In other words, Pi x diameter = 2 x Pi x radius. Same thing - just remember to drop the first half of your formula when calculating the lateral surface area. Sorry that I figured for a 1/8" copper tube when you were actually talking about a 1/4" tube (I had the spark tubes in mind at that moment), but just plug the correct values in and here's what you get for 1/4" copper tubing : (s.a. = surface area)
Outside s.a. = 3.143 x .250" x 1" height = 0.786 sq inches, rounded up.
Inside s.a. = 3.143 x .125" x 1" height = 0.393 sq inches, rounded up.
Total s.a. = .786 + .393, or 1.179 sq inches.

Before, I thought we were comparing the surface area of a solid conductor to a tube. Stranded wire figures differently, of course. For the wire, if I understand you correctly, you are saying that a 7 stranded cable with an outside diameter being approximately the same as the outside diameter of a 1/4 inch tube, has 7 strands inside - each with a .077" diameter. Okay, then figuring one strand's lateral surface area, the formula for surface area is:
Outside s.a. for 1 strand = Pi x .077" x 1" height = 0.242 sq inches.
And total s.a. for cable = .242 x 7, or 1.694 sq inches.

So yes, the stranded wire cable actually has more surface area, and 0.515 square inches more, to be exact. The question here, though, is: Can the 1/4inch diameter stranded wire cable transfer more power faster than the the 1/4 inch tubing, and the answer is - definitely not. Here's why:
We both agree that current tends to travel near the surface of a wire, and that this is termed skin effect, right? Skin effect results in increased power loss in a solid wire, and that is what each of the strands is - a solid wire. According to Wikipedia, "Stranded wire might seem to reduce this [skin] effect, since the total surface area of the strands is greater than the surface area of the equivalent solid wire, but in fact a simple stranded wire will have worse skin effect than a solid wire, because of its increased average resistivity due to inclusion of air gaps within the wire [bundle]." In bundled, stranded wire cables, the skin effect still occurs mostly near the outer suface area of the bundle. So, in other words, the power transmission of a stranded cable is actually poorer than a solid cable. Stranded cables are only popular because of the fact that they can be bent and routed much more easily than solid wire, but solid wire is preferable where power transmission losses are concerned. That's why your household wiring uses solid copper wires. It reduces power loss and heat buildup that would occur in stranded wire. With a tube, you can take an increased advantage of the skin effect due to the inside surface, and both surfaces have very low resistance when compared to stranded wire.

Again, sorry if my previous post on the math confused you because of figuring a different cable size. Actually, I made an error on my calculator (my eyes are getting bad), figuring the outer surface area of a 1/8" tube at 0.427 sq inches, when it is actually 0.393. I went back and fixed that, so the end result is now correct, but the basic formulas used were always correct, as I have shown above. Incidentally, while the previous error resulted in a 47% increase using the tube vs a solid cable, the actual increase is 58.5% - even better! The tubing wins, hands down, thumbs up.

Best wishes,

Rickoff

Hi everyone,

I'm seriously considering buying a full set of these spark and battery cables for my Toyota Prius, and have inquired at Kiker products to see if they have results statistics available for any Prius installations. If the spark wires and battery cables are as good as they claim, then the payback in battery life, battery charging times, electric motor efficiency, and fuel efficiency will make it well worth the investment. Initially they are expensive (around $25 for each spark wire, and $75 for a battery cable, but the savings would begin to be realized within a few months time, as my wife drives the Prius about 500 miles a week, and I drive it about another 100. What do you folks think?

Rick

Ok Rosco,

I know you've seen my latest vid, now can you tell this dumb ars how do I post pics!

BTW Yes it is my running engine with 1 cylinder out of operation because it's running my plug.

The gap in the latest video is less than 2mm. I haven't tried my larger cage with the higher pressure yet! It's probably closer to the 3mm

Cheers
Jeff

In the comment box you're typing in, see the yellow "insert image" icon, just under the "undo" icon.....try that.

Or, copy and paste the pic link into this text box, I think that works too.



flame

The 1st one is using the "insert image" icon, the 2nd is just a link to where the image is stored elsewhere.