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Old 07-25-2008, 03:15 AM
aether22 aether22 is offline
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A Beta idea, Radiant energy

Hey, please see:
Solved! How Edwin's tube and Paul Baumanns machine works.
Pretty sure I have figured it out!

What you will find is that a bit of a breakthrough has been made.
It is well established that Tesla coils and the like can charge distant metal objects by releasing a radiant charge.

Well the work of:
Imris Pavel (Optical Electrostatic Generator)
Joseph Hiddink
Edwin Gray
Paul Baumann (Testkica "its running principle was found by studying the lightning effects from nature")

Possibly also Tesla, Moray, Vallée Synergetic Generator

Based on the correlations I made an posted to the OU forum Stiffler has with some ingenious experimental development managed to replicate both Hiddink's effect (he got a pulse that messed with electronic stuff) and pull real energy with a modified form of the circuit.

YouTube - Optically Induced Coherence

So we have quite an interesting development here.

Figured I'd share this with this forum.
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Old 07-25-2008, 03:21 AM
aether22 aether22 is offline
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Oh, and I almost forgot, there is an interesting patent application seemingly by 'our' JLN! on the same effect: Electrical power source - Google Patents
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Old 07-27-2008, 05:56 AM
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Aaron Aaron is offline
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how the Gray Tube works..in my opinion

Hi Aether 22,

I wanted to share with you my insight into the Gray Tube. I saw your posts in overunity.com. I posted this in the Water Sparkplug thread:

How the spark circuit and Gray tube works
Hi Mario,

(Ash, would you be willing to include this entire post in your water spark plug document?)

That is pretty much it.

But I'm sticking to my guns on my explanation that seems to not fit well with some people.

The HV from the coil moves through the HV diode to the + of the low voltage source to ground back to itself...it seeks ground through the diode. That diode is open. When the HV is off, take a volt meter and put the neg on ground and + on the hv diode cathode/output. You will see that you can measure the low voltage side's voltage potential on the output of the diode because the diode is open.

Many people think the diode is automatically closed and won't let the hv through but that isn't true. That is the whole point that diodes have reverse ratings...and if the diodes were automatically always shut, then the low voltage from the annode/input could never get through.

Also, the diode closing is not instantaneous...it is fast, yes, but not instantaneous...once the hv moves through the hv diode...it takes a bit of time for it to get the reverse current through it in order to slam shut.

The HV potential, which is the voltage gas (it is a gas composed of "particles" smaller than a hydrogen atom - smaller than an electron - very, very small fractional charges - Mendeleev's original periodic table of elements showed some of this) has MOMENTUM.

As it is moving, the HV diode slams shut and the voltage potential with its momentum slams against the diode...compressing it more and more...now that re-compressed potential...which is expanded 90 degrees from the wire has to go somewhere...the only path to ground as of now is the gap on the plug. That un-condensed/expanded potential is what causes the primary effect of the cold plasma.

Then, when voltage on the cathode/output of the HV diode drops below the annode/input of the HV diode, then and only then can LV source move out of it and over the gap.

The lv source is not the cause of the effect, it simply can boost the primary effect - which can be had all by itself with one small cap that is virtually empty when discharged to the primary.

Primary effect is that potential slamming against a diode.

Many think the simple hv spark jumping a gap is enough to ionize the gap to reduce the resistance enough to have the lv source follow it...that is simply a fairytale.

Only the recompressed potential against the diode's abrupt shut off can cause the cold plasma ionization that is necessary to allow the lv source to follow. At this circuit's scale of operation, this is all necessary to make these effects.

This is a method of "splitting the positive" that Bedini has shown for years in the open but nobody really got it. If I am wrong, I apologize and will correct all my explanations but until then, that's my story and I'm sticking to it until proven wrong but following the logic of all this, it is very consistent with what Tesla explained, it is consistent with other technologies that utilize this concept, etc...

Working of the Gray Tube

This will put what I'm saying into context with something that many people have studied but I am not sure anyone gets it. Many are convinced in all the free electron concepts in the Gray Tube, etc... McGratten mailed me a package about 7 years ago with that explanation but I always saw it happening in a different way.

The Gray Tube has a low voltage rod and high voltage rod. Low voltage rod has a diode on it that has the cathode/emitter pointed towards the gap. Low voltage source can be any low voltage source and Gray showed he used a 12v battery...the neg of that battery is connected to the neg of the HV capacitor at 3000-4000 volts and a few uf's. The + of the hv source goes to the hv rod.


I have made the Gray tube analogy to the spark method and most have automatically thought that they look at 2 gaps and think they serve the same purpose. I'll show you why the 2 gaps have nothing to do with each other but why they are making the same effect. It is necessary to actually understand how the Gray tube works in order to see what the real analogies to the spark plug circuit are.

When the low voltage side is connected by commutator, whatever...the hv source immediately sees path to ground...it sees that the diode is open and has conductivity to the low voltage source which has conductivity to ground which is its own ground...it jumps and as soon as it moves through the diode for a small unit of time, the diode slams shut....only a small fraction of the hv potential made it through.

That hv potential from the cap slams against the diode and compresses against it very strongly forcing it to explode 90 degrees from the wire outwards...the only other path to ground it by going to the grids...through the electromagnet that pulses a magnet or other electromagnet to provide motive force on a motor to a + on another low voltage source and that lv source has a - that winds up being connected back to the hv -'s.

Take a balloon and push it flat against a wall. It compresses and the contents of the balloon wind up exploding 90 degrees perpendicular to the direction of original propagation.


The gap in the Gray tube is simply a mechanism to get the HV to jump into a diode with a lv potential sitting on it so that it can move into it to have the diode slam shut to compress the potential against it.

The secondary discharge from ignition coil is a mechanism to get a HV to jump into a diode with a lv potential sitting on it so that it can move into it to have the diode slam shut to compress the potential against it.


The Grids on the Gray Tube are the secondary path for the expanded potential to move to ground.

The ground on the spark plug is the secondary path for the expanded potential to move to ground.


Here is what this method is:

You are giving the HV 2 paths to travel in order for it to move back to its own ground or relative ground.

1 path is a high resistance path
1 path is a low resistance path


The Gray tube high resistance path is out to grids back to ground.

The water sparkplug circuit's high resistance paths is over spark gap back to ground.


The Gray tube low resistance path is through the diode to lv side back to ground.

The water sparkplug circuit's low resistance path is through the diode to lv side back to ground.


1. The HV will choose the low resistance path FIRST
2. Diode slams shut expanding that potential
3. Expanded potential (electro-radiant event) has only the high resistance path left back to ground.


So when it is explained that the hv spark jumps the gap ionizing it to reduce the resistance of it and have the lv source follow it...it incorrect.

And seeing the analogy in comparision to the Gray tube, that popular explanation of how Luc's spark method works would be the same as claiming that this is how the Gray tube works:

The hv from the hv cap first jumps to the grids ionizing the air to reduce the resistance of it enough for the 12v battery potential to jump from the low voltage rod to the grids...all the while never needing the hv to jump the gap in order to slam against the diode.

We know the above is NOT how the Gray tube works but that is what people are claiming when they say the Spark plug circuit works by the hv simply going to jump over the gap to ionize it for the lv source to follow.
Aaron Murakami

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Old 07-28-2008, 09:20 AM
aether22 aether22 is offline
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I have not read your entire post yet, and not comprehended everything i did read.
However while I don't know if you are right about the diode creating the effect you claim, I never the less know for sure that the aether can be effected by similar means. (oscillating or disturbing the aether creates orgone/torsion etc...)

As for Gray I have not an ounce of doubt that it works as I have laid out, which is not to say the diode does not create the effect you claim, only that beyond creating the radiant emission the energy is from capacitance.

Anyway here is a post I added to OU thread referenced above.

Soft Electrons

The key effect, Hiddink, Gray, Pavel, JLN's Patent, Baumann and Now Stiffer have taken advantage of is related to a negatively charged particle which I will argue is an electron in a peculiar state, it may be that other types of particles can be in this state and even a chance that this particle is not an electron but something else as apparently Tesla believed

In all of these devices (with Stiffler's version possibly only using the effect as a jumping off point to something larger) a capacitor is charged, and one, seemingly the negatively plate is discharged by emission of electrons in an effect discovered by Tesla and noted by many who have worked with Tesla Coils and the like, it is Termed Radiant Energy, the other plate of the capacitor remains charged but now to a much higher potential, the emitted electrons can be collected on distant isolated metal surfaces and as shown in the case of the Hiddink experiment this radiation can kill semiconductors in the immediate area if the pulse is too strong.

The positive plate of the capacitor should preferably have holes to avoid collection of this beta emission which will lower it's remaining charge, This can be seen clearly in Baumann and Gray devices, Gray actually used wire with easily more hole that metal.

The propulsive effect that causes the emission is apparently aetheric in nature however that is beyond the scope of this post. (It is possible however that the force is electrostatic in nature and the aetheric component is related to putting the charges in this curious state)

The curious thing however, is that if there were really enough electrons flying around to kill these electronics, charge these plates and generate so much power the experimenters would be quite dead quite fast, however while some danger has been noted from this radiation it is far far lower than would be expected if this was normal beta radiation.

This mystery seems solved by the fact that such current also acts in an unusual manner in wires, this 'cold current' can flow through insulators at low voltages, and yet does not cause electric shocks as demonstrated by Edwin Gray.
It may also cause an unusually blue light to come from an incandescent bulb and cause semiconductors and possibly other components to become Coler than the ambient temperature. (This may be in part due to such components literally 'leaking' or boiling off such energized electrons, but mainly because electrons in such a state appear smaller and avoid collision)

Tesla in US patent 685,958 describes how an insulated copper plate can absorb such energetic charges from the environment (seemingly from the sun) or from any electrical device able to create such radiation, the collection may be feeble but he describes that these charges at rather low voltages can break through insulation and so recommends high quality capacitors be used.

I have been told he describes these charges as having a lower mass than electrons, but I think many may agree with me before the end of this post that most likely these are electrons, all be it electrons in a different state.

William Barbat in US patent Application #2007/0007844 describes (possibly theoretical) 'low mass' electrons being generated by a copper oxide (copper readily oxidizes in air and quickly at high heats as would have been the case for Tesla's Sheets) coating being struck by light, this is interesting as Teslas copper plates would have very likely oxidized before being coated, Barbat's theory of this enhancing loose coupling transformer operation may also be true but what I have read of his theory of why is nonsense unless these electrons produce a diminished magnetic field and with it less self inductance.

These low mass electrons are also found by mainstream physicists sometimes, in carbon, a material which as I will cover seems ideal for generating these cold electrons, see: Electrons lose their mass in carbon sheets (November 2005) - News - PhysicsWeb

Stiffler (and whoever else composed 'ATGroup'?) found these cold electrons in the TMB or Thermal magnetic battery, though the accuracy of the name is disputed.

Despite the extreme low voltage a cold blue are was noted:
"Cold Blue Arc. When a load is connected or disconnected to a TMB cell an arc can bee seen of approximately 1/16" in length. This arc is light blue in color and not something typically seen in normal electronic circuits. The arc is wide compared to its length and is quite broad in size when initially appearing.
This is extraordinary since the voltage output of a TMB is somewhere from 50-300mv, very very low voltages to be producing an arc of about 1.5mm when the normal requirement would be 1,500v to breach a 1.5mm gap, a voltage 5000 times high than found from even 2 TMB's in series.
Also note the arc is again 'cold' suggesting that these electrons didn't transfer much kinetic energy either due to their lower mass or like the electrons in a superconductor they tend to avoid interaction.

This avoiding interaction would appear to possibly a form of enhanced tunneling, the aether does seem to be the medium in which quantum events play out but my manipulating the aether it seems possible that tuantum mechanical events may be enhanced.
It is worth noting that 'ormus' or 'm-State' elements which are monatomic elements have been found to tunnel out of containers, it seems that even atoms can gain a similar energetic and low mass state.

Carbon spark gaps/arcs have been noted to run cold and produce excess energy by a number of experimenters (Among them Frolov and Sonne Ward but it has been noted by many others), it is interesting that Edwin used large carbon blocks, while it seems that he used them in part to create a voltage difference required for the capacitive effect as apparent from the MKay document noted earlier in this thread it seems likely that Carbon (Graphite) is effective at producing these low mass electrons.

René-Louis Vallée has a theory where Carbon is transmuted into radioactive Boron (a proton grabs an electron) which then decays back into carbon (20 ms half life) releasing a high energy electron, with far more energy that the electron had to have to turn the carbon into Boron.
This reaction seems unlikely, nuclear reactions do not tend to be over Unity, and the beta radiation would again be deadly.
While his theory seems probably entirely wrong it has been replicated by several including JLN and others on the OU board with success:
The Vallée Synergetic Generator Project by JL Naudin
I am moving the overunity.com site away from Servage.net . This takes some time .

In some versions there is an Arc, in others there is just a short through a carbon rod, however it does seem that this carbon rod releases radiation, it has been measured and one experimenter believed they got a radiation burn from it.

The VSG effect then seems to be a similar effect, however it has no capacitance and instead the beta radiation from the high current passing through the carbon rod is put to work by entering a coil and is entrained by an existing current adding energy to it.

I believe that Edwin may have used the carbon to further 'Soften' the electrons and I believe he may have used diodes and voltages to suck as many 'hard' electrons out of the emitting electrode and anything near it as possible, either to enhance the effect or to make is safer.
I do not know if 'hard' electrons can be carried along in the rush (or if there are intermediate levels of 'softness') but if so it would not only be an issue of performance but also safety.

It is worth noting that the replication mentioned in the MKay document has a dangerous radiation and it is likely due to an insufficiently softened beta, greater softness should result in both greater power output and a far far safer even beneficial output IMO.

So the question turns to other ways to make these cold/soft electrons.
First though I must note that Richard Lefores Clark proposed the existence of 'Soft' electrons which sound very much the same animal although his theory seems to concern things my theory does not.
It is also worth noting that Hans Coler mentioned 'Space Electrons' moving between his capacitive plates, between the 'repelling and attracting spaces'.
We will consider his methods later.

Boyd Bushman in US patent 5,929,732 shows a magnetic device that projects a magnetic field an improbable distance, there are 2 other cases of people projecting DC magnetic fields impossible distances, and also one where an AC magnetic field projected impossible distances to cause a force of a distant aligned magnet.
Boyd's device also falls slower than an object of the same mass and size.

In his patent he describes an experiment where a VDG charged IIRC negatively which only has the ability to discharge a fraction of an inch can discharge 6 feet! through the air from the influence of 2 of his magnetic beamers, one of the beamers being north and one south (the arc hitting the south pole beamer).

Peter Markovitch made a solid state device seen here:
Peter Markovich: Apparatus To Rectify Ether Energy (ATREE)
It has one very curious quality, it can pick up DC induction, something that though strange is not unique among FE devices, and it can have it flow in useful levels in various circuit configs some of which include open circuits.
If we look at Coler (current through magnet cores), Boyd Bushman, Markovitch (silver conductor with electromagnet wrapped over) we see the same design, current is passing through a magnetic field! This can cause the current to spiral, if this vortex flow is the reason I don't know but I suspect it is not exclusively.
We see verification of this in JLN's replication of the VSG, if a coil produced a magnetic field of this orientation the energy output increased greatly.

If we now again look at the TMB we see the same config, where the current (which strangely passes through the dielectric in the cell) moves along magnetic field lines.
We also can note that Baumann powered his machine in large part be a cell very similar to the TMB, called 'The Linden Experiment', it is essentially identical to the TMB with this same magnetic field and current config.

There are many other strange effects from this config, Hamdi Ucar for instance with a few volts got ionization from a coil with a similar crossing quality, lots of strange effects have been reported from such Mobius and Caduceus coils and it would take a separate post to cover this angle properly.
Interestingly (and it is a word of warning) I have heard from 2 different sources neither of which I have any reason to believe knew of each other and both reported that coils of this type may produce XRays! Speeding electrons Batman! Both had experienced this in their research! (One of them (a Dr.) also got levitation, and reported that it happens if you put in over something like 5 volts)

Before I had found that out from either of them I did experiments with similar coils creating a beam and I got the strangest Helli hover over my house in a way I have never seen before or since, he just sat there for quite a while as I was doing my experiments, just maybe I caused something that could be detected as an anomaly.

continued in next post
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Old 07-28-2008, 09:21 AM
aether22 aether22 is offline
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Before I change subject a bit I will include this video and while I can't explain everything that occurs I think you will be able to agree it explains a lot of what occurs: YouTube - Hydrogen Tap(Electricity Through Magnetic Field ) 100 (watch the next 2 from him also)
Same setup, electron flow along magnetic field and can arc through air despite low voltage being applied.

Patrick Flanagan in US Patent 4,743,275 'Electron field generator' describes a capacitor with a dielectric dropped with tiny metal particles, the entire thing is then insulated and attached to a HV AC generator.
This despite being insulated against the voltages applied emits electrons, these do not act light ions which are flow to permeate a living environment, this thing acts radiantly.
He is creating the same low mass electrons that can thumb their nise at insulation.
The method he is using is one used by many to create an aetheric effect but it would be taking this too far off subject to go there as most cases where this effect has been used has nothing to do with our subject but I could list 20 cases of this principle being used. For those curious anyay here is a sample: Ormus, Bions, Orgonite, BaFe with or without Piezo (MRA & Sweet and Dan Davidson) plus a device Stan deyo describes in a rare video lecture of a device he built, CSE, Mesmer, Patterson Cell, Hermann Plausonn and JLN's segmented replication of the Newman motor (those last 2 to be researched together, oh and with Kipper with the MWO for inspiration)

One exception is: Homemade Coherer.
Coherers (metal powder gaining conduction) were used in the early days of radio to detect transmission, the type of radios used would release an aetheric shockwave from the wire and this aether impulse would create a highly energetic state as it tries to pass through metal powder. (Literally an energetic/agitated space/aether/vacuum similar to the conditions Hutchison creates)

This could very well be how Hiddink's device and Stiffler's semi replication works among others, noble gases are monatomic and tend to create this same effects as verified by experimenters including DMBoss who is active of this forum, this is probably how the electrons are conditioned to become soft/cold.

Storms and the Hutchison effect (And Podkletnov's impulse device) sometimes curiously cause things to become not so solid so they may pass through each other, it seems likely that the same thing is occurring, that space (the space (Aether) that matter drags along) is becoming highly energized, i have established that inertia is almost certainly due to a delay between matter the aether it tends to entrain to come up to speed, if however the aether or matter is in such a state that they are held on to much more tightly there there would indeed be less inertia.

Reich found that tiny energetic particles (bions) created this spatial radiation he termed orgone. He found that this energy could be infused into matter and matter could retain this radiation, he could charge a Gieger counter and it would click at a far higher rate and yet there was no danger. (If I have to tell you why the clicks increased then chances are this thread isn't for you)
Obviously, he was charging the electrons with orgone which is precisely what these cold/soft electrons are, why they avoid doing damage, they are orgone (energetic vacuum) infused electrons. The energetic vacuum which they pull around with them (magnetic and electric fields do tend to entrain aether) is the key to their curious effects.

Many reading this will know I have not even mentioned torsion research even though it should be obvious it's the same thing and the same effects have been found.

I think that should cover it pretty well, I think most non-skeptics would agree that there is a strong weight of evidence for these easily emitted and relatively non dangerous charges being emitted, and that this emission can be collected generating excess energy as well as avoided to create excess energy be reduction of capacity.

Stiffler is using the effect but 'APPEARS' to be not only gaining from the Hiddink effect but using the aether disruption created by the emission to draw in more power by a different means.

Edit: Regarding the 'Hydrogen Tap' video, it occurs to me that this has similarities to as effect noted in the GEET and plasma reactors of the same type, the plasma flow along the magnetic field, it spirals and at a certain point there is a change and that is where the action takes place (Transmutation).
It strikes me that the current in the magnet in 'hydrogen's' vid may be doing the same thing, being so wound up (energized) by the motion through the field that it can't go any further and when a critical mass of these electrons builds up it discharges the only way it can, radially.
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Old 10-13-2010, 07:56 AM
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tutanka tutanka is offline
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Beta radiation an free electrons..

If your machine is builded right emits a lot of radiations. In fact is an mix of Alpha, Beta radiations, free electrons, ions, etc... your diagram is incomplete but the way is right. There are other modes for create free electrons without use gas or vacuum, however the key is create high radiation field around the machine and to catch these into cylinder SS with coil. Cylinder made in SS have double function.. protect you from radiations and permit to create an electromagnet for extract electricity trought coil wind around.
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Old 04-05-2018, 11:54 AM
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jim glinski jim glinski is offline
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With the vsg the carbon rods have to have a magnetic field around the rods to give direction to the new energy .usually it's a coil .and needs to be a a minimum strength .and the voltage above 100 volts gives better results ...why not use neo's to replace the coils .? Save energy .a simple spark gap between two Canon rods with coils should increase OU. Lithium was listed way above carbon concerning potential ..maybe that's why they used it with small atomic bombs to make hydrogen bombs ..that make testing islands disappear !
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