i did not see a schematic so i am not sure what is happening on your circuit ,but i tried reed relays at first but they do not have a iron core and the iron core in the relay is important for the interaction of the self oscillation of the relay .with the use of a 555 with a transistor or fet driving the relay the self oscillation is no longer important . the more i think about the 3055 it would have to have a protection diode on it i believe and that might mess with the recovery energy . i will have to rely on Peter on advice on changing the drive for the relay. on using no relay just fet or 3055 i would have to experiment to have any usable data on that . i did this morning just for a test ran the coil on the output of my imhotep fan and it didnt have enough punch with only one fan to drive the coil to full saturation all tho a parellel fan arrangment might drive it well also someone with the larger bedini 's might be able to drive the coil .

Putting this baby together...

Condensor, which is positive and which is negative? I would assume case is negative, so I would run that to the negative of the coil... and the center is postive to positive of the ignition coil...

right?

you are correct the case is negitive and the wire or post is plus

To get the intense light, with the schematic I posted, I had to play around with both relays using 2 neo magnets and for some unknown reason, get it to a point where all of a sudden the bulbs just hit high intensity light.. It's quite exciting when you get it right and you can tell because the whole room lights up .. I'll try and get it onto video later but it won't show or mean much without a light lux meter. When it does hit this high intense light it does not change the ampage draw... because I can then slowly change the neo magnets to draw around 1.5amps.. if i make the relays pull any less than this then the bulbs instantly go dim again..

Hope this means something to someone.. I thought i better explain in details what is happening.

What im trying to say really badly is, if you have a small reed switch iron core coil before the ignition coil between the positive and negative of the different batterys strange things happen.

i think that if you interrupted the first oscillation like this usable energy is pulled into the system.

I have tryed this many times with a one wire coil in place of the ignition coil and the volt meter on bold batterys go mad.

im i going down a dead end here?
But i really do think the relay has a energy input in to your system.

Attached Images

reed.JPG (129.6 KB, 84 views)

Coool
You got something there old boy
cant wait to see the vid

Yes it does. The relay and the primary if wired correctly have the lowest current draw and you get 3 coil collapses from the setup. 1 - from the the relay, 1 - from the primary and 1 - from the secondary. The spark plugs themselves, when you used with a conventional coil rely on the collapsing field of the secondary to spark. Your replacing that spark plug with a negative resistor which is the fluorescent tube. But the interaction with the primary and the relay coil collapse does make a difference. There is many reasons i went with the relay. One of them was the free assist between the primary and the relay.

I do understand what you are doing now. Your breaking the connection on the positive end and using a Bedini with a 555 to pulse the negative end. Interesting. Hows the light output? Does the light output change with the frequency of the 555 or do you have it prewired to a certain frequency, or have you made the 555 adjustable? And as far as the magnet adjustment how does that affect the circuit? what kind of current draw is on your 555. Sorry for firing so many questions but your setup is interesting. As far as your meters going crazy, digital meters will be all over place with this high voltage. Lindemann has said that if you want good results use an analog meters and isolate them with a cap and diode. Then you will get solid readings and accurate readings but there is high voltage all over these circuits from the collapsing fields. have a fun safe trip


i do want to add, you are using your own custom coil, so your results are going to be slightly different and We may not be able to replicate your exactl results. When you get back Def we will have to check that out more.

as far as light output your eyes are the best judge. Peter had suggested using any small solar cell on your meter and place it near one ran off the grid and note the reading, then place it near your circuit and see what the difference in voltage is. Its not a lux meter but it will give you a difference of reading for comparisons. hth

I did run a test today 3 in series and it does work does not matter about matching bulb types, i used all sorts of bulbs. Interesting. The light output spread between the 3 was not as intense as in one bulb. I will be trying adding the other relay and see how it goes on a parallel double coil arrangement and will try charge 2 batteries and let you guys know. Keep up the great work.

I have an idea for measuring the light...

Use a solar cell and measure the voltage.

You can also use the power of the solarcell to feed back into the primary battery...

Just a thought.


Mine is not working yet I must be doing something wrong. Gonna give it a break and hit it again later.

I do understand what you are doing now. Your breaking the connection on the positive end and using a Bedini with a 555 to pulse the negative end. Interesting. Hows the light output? Does the light output change with the frequency of the 555 or do you have it prewired to a certain frequency, or have you made the 555 adjustable? And as far as the magnet adjustment how does that affect the circuit? what kind of current draw is on your 555. Sorry for firing so many questions but your setup is interesting. As far as your meters going crazy, digital meters will be all over place with this high voltage. Lindemann has said that if you want good results use an analog meters and isolate them with a cap and diode. Then you will get solid readings and accurate readings but there is high voltage all over these circuits from the collapsing fields. have a fun safe trip


i do want to add, you are using your own custom coil, so your results are going to be slightly different and We may not be able to replicate your exactl results. When you get back Def we will have to check that out more.[/quote]


the draw on the 555 is very low i have two resistors so its trigger at the 2n3055 at 1volt i cant read the amp draw my meter will not go so low!
check the link
555 Noise-Maker Kit > Maplin

it got a FET and a has a varible resistor biuld in gos from 20 Hz - 20 kHz which is crap for the small ajustment that we need. Not try ajusting the frequency.
light out is very low, my coil is to big all we need is a small one that can move the reed switch and not pull the power out of the pulse. thats why i think 555may work there, but two will be tricky.

would your relay work there?

Magnet placement.
your have a north pole coil pulse with the magnet pushing the reed together.
them your move the reed across the coil one part of the reed across the coil one part coming at right angle sticking out.move the magnet watch the video its easy.
was thinking of try one on the back of the coil two with another negative from a nickal rode in the ground(earth battery stuff) or from the change battery.
got to go
ps.you like rock im in a band you may like us
MySpace.com - I Pariah - Sheffield, UK - Metal / Rock / Classic Rock - www.myspace.com/ipariah

take care B

The magnet on the relay is increasing the oscillation rate, at least in my testing.
I'm sure you guys played with different cap/resistor values before releasing, care to share your results?
I imagine you picked values that were easy to find.
Are we at the ideal for the Radio Shack relay (max oscillation) or are there better values maybe?
That is why I was asking about the impedance of the relay coil, we should be able to calculate the ideal values for highest frequency.
I am wondering if there is a way to take advantage of the other contact on the relay.
Also looking forward to the non-Lite version of this project.

I may build the 555 circuit Bodkins is using this weekend to play with too.
I have a bunch of fans to convert into SSGs as well, still trying to find the ideal setup.
I have some nice MJL21194 transistors to try out too.

Only 1 relay needed to run 2 coils now..

more info in the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWcPnwAEVvs

WOW!!! I love the Light output! I WANT to see your schematic using only one relay and the 2 coils. Are u feeding them through parallel or according to the first schematic i posted?? The meter does add a resistance on voltage measurements most of these digital meters are a megaohm to 10 megaohms which is a very high resistance. the reason they are that high is so that they dont skew your testing results. If you are running it on the 10amp section, which is a separate input it is running through a copper shunt inside the relay which im not really sure of the resistance on the shunt. They are supposed to be like a open circuit but they do have resistance. Which looks like it affects this circuit. I am FLOORED by the light output. Have you been able to tell how many amps you are drawing? Please give us more details. Loved what you have done with this circuit

Yes the magnet does change the frequency or duty cycle (on time off time) of the relay. I have not measured it free-running to see its frequency. My meter has the capability to do this, its a very expensive true rms fluke that I used when i was in repair.

As far as the cap and resistor you can go from 1uf to 4.7uf possibly even higher and resistance from 100ohm to 1k. All these are available from Radio Shack. This was only added as the snubber to quench some of the arcing. If you choose a different relay, you might not even have to include the snubber if the relay does not arc and you choose the right bulb. The condenser that is across the positive and the negative of the coil was added and then removed and made not much difference. I only included it because i wanted the circuit to have all of the things I had tested on it. If you use the blue relay it is sealed. You can not look at the contacts. On my icecube relay which no one can obtain, I could watch the arcs. Which without the snubber it would arc in a light green arcing pattern. It did not matter if you used 1uf or 4.7uf or the 100ohm or 1k, the arcing ceased. The condenser as i said, was added as a precaution, it is not intricate to the design. Everyone has started adding multiple bulbs and coils and have not looked at the contacts as far as i know. This circuit as far as i know is not in resonance because each bulb you use is different. I left that up to everyones individual measurements to peak its efficiency.

It looks like waterhouse has def stretched the most amount of brightness out of the bulbs so far. I will def watch where he is going with it. As far as going solid state Bodkins is making great progress on that end. We shall see where it goes.
Yes there is a way to use the other contact. You will see very soon on the next release

Happy experimenting

ps : the non-lite version will be released soon, it is a super simple learning tool that you will be able to use to get basic radiant charging and very low desulfation. But it is just a couple of parts, its super simple for those who dont want to mess with the fans. Its great for kids and adults to build and would make a good science fair project. Its not dangerous because there is no super highvoltage, its just in the hundred of volts. It only draws 80ma and runs forever

the draw on the 555 is very low i have two resistors so its trigger at the 2n3055 at 1volt i cant read the amp draw my meter will not go so low!
check the link
555 Noise-Maker Kit > Maplin

it got a FET and a has a varible resistor biuld in gos from 20 Hz - 20 kHz which is crap for the small ajustment that we need. Not try ajusting the frequency.
light out is very low, my coil is to big all we need is a small one that can move the reed switch and not pull the power out of the pulse. thats why i think 555may work there, but two will be tricky.

would your relay work there?

Magnet placement.
your have a north pole coil pulse with the magnet pushing the reed together.
them your move the reed across the coil one part of the reed across the coil one part coming at right angle sticking out.move the magnet watch the video its easy.
was thinking of try one on the back of the coil two with another negative from a nickal rode in the ground(earth battery stuff) or from the change battery.
got to go
ps.you like rock im in a band you may like us
MySpace.com - I Pariah - Sheffield, UK - Metal / Rock / Classic Rock - www.myspace.com/ipariah

take care B[/quote]

Yes you can insert the relay on the negative side as well as the positive side. But in your particular circuit you would be switching both the negative and the positive and the timing could be pretty difficult on that. I havent studied that area very deeply but maybe someone else here in the forum would have more experience in this area to help consult you.

ps : listened to the music sounds excellent

that is an excellent idea, trickle charge the battery on the front end

Hi guys, just to let you know I have got my first 15w globe modified and working.

I am super short on funds so I had to use what I could. I had heaps of .53 wire so I wound my own transformer/ignition coil. I wound the secondary first around a bobbin, no core, and the primary with a trigger wire was wound on top. Interestingly, the secondary only measured 46 ohms, its probably in the vicinity of 1000 turns but super high resistance may not be a necessary thing on the secondary.

I put about 100 turns of .9 and .5 over the top and used a basic SG circuit in self oscillation mode. Doesnt charge very well, but it lights up ok, its no blazing sun, but my meter cant read the voltage on the secondary on the 1000v setting. Some nice little sparks too if the secondary is held close together.

Draws about 400ma, and can fill a 10uF 250v cap to 190v separate from the light. I guess this could be dumped onto a second battery when configured right.

Ill keep tinkering and post up a schematic soon.

Waterman where are you getting the relay sir!

Hi

Just for a small report I used the neo magnet for my relay and The current draw dropped to 0.47A from 1.13A with the same light output! That means 12 * 0.47 ~ 6W. totally excellent. Keep up the good work Everyone!

Elias

Great video, impressive brightness
Just a quick word about the relay getting hot, I don't think that this is because you are using two coils. I think, that this is because you are using a magnet. My relay also did get hot, but only when I used the magnet. Try to pulse the bulbs without the magnet for a while and see if the relay will get hot
I knew that higher voltage will do the trick in getting more brightness. Great work. I just love how it is going with all of us working together and sharing our results.
Thank you all!

got my relays from here: eBay.co.uk Shop: Search results for Radioshack.

When I have the Multimeter connected i'm drawing 1 amp.. when not connected i'm not sure because I can't measure it

See amended schematic:

rol3.jpg

I think the relay is becoming hot because it is getting some of the feedback voltage from the coils.. I was not charging batteries with the feedback so this could be why.. I will try with batteries being charged to see if it makes a difference.

Sadly my ordinary work does not allow me the time I would like to spend on this exiting experiment. I did this some days ago, sorry for not reporting at once.

I also used a neo to try tuning the frequency, by got no further than 350 Hz.

I then changed the bias of the springs, and restricted the movement of the vibrating part of the magnetic circuit, then I got up to 500 Hz.

I cannot reach the very nice brightness that waterhouse24 demonstrates , but the 500 Hz resulted in my best brightness so far and as a bonus the current dropped from 800mA. it now was running at 4.1V 650mA = 2.7W. Further adjustment got a little higher frequency, and the current dropped to 400mA but the brightness dropped also. Now the high voltage was close to sine shape, but before I got a picture the relay gave up.

It got so hot that the contact arm lost its strength and bent nearly 90 degrees, the contacts also looks more burnt than seen before.

I wonder whether the contacts just got its share of wear, or the resonance was the cause of death. My power supply was restricting the current to 2 Amps.

In my attached pictures 3 traces are seen. The top is from a high voltage probe 1000:1.
at scope .5v that gives 500V/division. There is no difference in brightness whether the probe is connected or not.

Previously i made a high voltage 400 kHz flyback supply. Then the probe draw a small arch when connected. But with this circuit this was no problem.

The middle trace is the voltage across the primary coil, 20V/div. The bottom trace is the voltage across the contacts, also 20V/div.

Scope ground is connected to coil negative. All traces have zero at a division line.

Note that for 1 ms each pulse current is just wasted, as the voltage across the primary is constant 4.1 V. So a solid state circuit could nearly double the frequency to raise the brightness by increasing the time high voltage is present.

I also wonder whether another design of the coil could be more efficient, if the high frequency oscillations on the primary could join making HV. In other words get another relation between primary and secondary resonance..

My home made Ignition coil is seen also with the welding rods added.I dusted off my old analog meter to get a more reliable reading of the current.

The last picture shows the recovery charging pulse to a 12V lead acid battery. Its duration is remarkably long compared to my SS charger. It raised the voltage of the battery. but the relay life did not allow for testing the efficiency.

I am sure your ignition coils are far superior to my home made coil,

Eric

Ps. It just sucked in, that the max attachments is not per post but for all postings, so I had to delete two previous pictures and reduce the size of the pictures below.

So if a picture is interesting in this forum, I will save it at once, as they can disappear to make room for new attachments

Attached Images

M4110059a.JPG (418.6 KB, 21 views)

waterhouse24, are both of your ignition coils equal? I just made the same circuit with non equal coils and the brightness has not increased at all.

@waterhouse24

Thank you for your diagram and test.

It would be interesting if a person skilled in the art could explain the reason you get the increased brightness. Is it the secondaries exitating each other because of slightly different time constants, maybe to some degree resembling the effect from the fuelless engine (capacitor motor)

Yesterday i did a lot of (re) reading on Peters book on cold electricity, but ran out of time (re) watching Eric Dollards Borderland video on Tesla's findings. I remember there is replication info also.

The German professor Konstantin Meyl is a brave man:
Meyl - Skalarwellentechnologie - Elektromagnetische Umweltverträglichkeit Potentialwirbel, Skalarwellen & alternative Energie

On this page is some videos I have seen some time ago. It is in German, but just watch the video with the small boat and a bulb running from a small scale model of Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter. Meyl claims this small circuit independently tested has demonstrated a COP up to 10.
It looks like the flat spiral coils fits a double sided PCB approx. 100 * 100 mm. The motor consumes 2.5W wireless transmitted power.
http://www.k-meyl.de/go/40_Videostre...r_htl-wels.flv

His university does not want him to tell about this, freedom of speech in the EU ? He was previously fined in court 4000 Euro for a demonstration. The court sentenced him for 50mW emissions even though mobile phones emit much more. An EU agency actually compares the danger of 3G mobile phones and WIFI emissions with the danger of asbestos.
Meyl call it electrosmog. He is also a speaker on health conferences. There are much more of interest from Prof. Meyl on his page.

Back to business. I wonder if an SS like circuit with capacitor discharge could light the bulb efficiently if the charged battery was replaced by this spiral coil primary, and the bulb connected to the middle of the spiral (see Tesla patent #593.138). Maybe two PCB's could be used in a push pull fashion, so the two PCB's was stacked parallel a cm maybe less apart and with one PCB turned so the coil "windings" is opposite direction and a bulb terminal connected to each center. Not exactly as tesla did, but less would maybe be enough.

I guess a micro controller could be a help. An Atmel tiny45 could maybe offer the functionality to get the timing right and and itself using very little energy. If this idea is not shot down, I consider trying it later when I get more time. I have found A CAD PCB program able to make the coils. My Open Source regular and excellent KICAD PCB CAD program does not handle it so far.

If it could work, it will be quite simple the use the controller or maybe one other type uC (more pins) from the family for making it all running off the net.

And thanks again to all in this forum for giving inspiration and advice.

Eric



If you understand the German

One of my coils is a Delco Remoy (Number on side is79526666) and the latest addition is a coil from a BMW 316 (K Registration)

I've connected up the charging battery and the light is still as strong but the relay is still get very hot. I think I may have fried one of them

@waterhouse24

Have you tried running the extra coil alone to compare with the other coil ?

Eric

Ps. please disregard the last fractional sentence in my previous post, i did'nt see it in the preview.

Hi guys, excellent work, I have been following all these threads and i think all this is wanderfull.

I was looking around and I found this website about inginition coil drivers I hope it helps.

RMCybernetics - DIY Homemade Ignition Coil Driver

Yes when I first got the BMW coil i tested it and it was the same brightness.

The last video I did where I was disconnecting 1 coil.. the coil left running was the BMW coil


Hope this helps someone.. just a photo diagram of the setup:

photo.jpg