I watched the video rick. Where are the plans?

I figured out why my diode exploded and added a relay contact to disconnect charging. Push button to charge, release to fire. May need to add a set of contacts to isolate the ground from the bridge if I understood Aarons description.

Hell ya baby, whip out the plans, I'll take a stab at at. (probably) I will definately be going with an electric starter. :-)

Have you attempted the Diodes in Parallel?

This is straight from Chemelec, which has a WHOLE LOT of Credibility!

"Some Persons believe two diodes in parallel Doubles the Current Rating. However just putting two diodes in parallel may or may not increase the current rating at all.

All diodes have a foreward voltage drop and if you measure a bunch of a particular diode, (even all being in the same batch) you will find each is slightly different at a given current. And this can change in a Non-Linear way for other currents.

When diodes are placed in parallel, the diode with the Lowest Voltage drop will
conduct the most Current.

This could result in No Advantage, Partial advantage or High Advantage.
But Extremely Doubtful it will ever Double the current.

One way to help fix this is to put a Low Value, Series Resistor in front of Each Diode.
The voltage drop across this series resistor tends to Equil Out the differences in the diodes. The resistance of each series resistor should provide a voltage drop, somewhere around 0.3 to 0.6 volts at the current draw of the particular circuit it is used in.

Another Problem that can occur sometimes: Is when a large filter capacitor is used after the diode and If the Power transfomer has a low impedance and is capable of driving large currents. "This Inital High Surge Current, Can Damage the Diodes".

In these cases it is advisable to place a low value, series resistor. Sometimes it is called a "Fusing Resistor". This resistor Raises the Effective Impedance and Lowers the High In-Rush Current to a safer level, thus protecting the diode from damage.

In Low Voltage Supplies, Resistor Values between 0.1 ohm to 10 ohms are quite effective. And in High Voltage Supplies, Values between 47 ohm to 100 ohms are used to fix this. In the case of a Diode Bridge Circuit, a resistor is placed on Both Inputs.

A bit of Wisdom, from my many years experience."

Attached Images

	Diodes-in-Parallel.jpg (3.2 KB, 21 views)
	Diodes-in-Parallel2.jpg (1.9 KB, 9 views)

I decided to replicate Ossies circuit.
This is the original one:


At first I decided to make the upper circuit part, that would make the sparks across the spark gap at variable frequency, like this:



This worked fine, here is a video:
YouTube - another test

Then I made the lower part of the circuit with a 75w light bulb. I used a capacitor from a disposable photo camera, there are no readings on the cap, so I can't tell you the capacity. At first I just powered up the bottom part of the circuit. It was not attached to the upper part. I just wanted to see if the cap would charge up and it did. As the cap charged up, the light bulb went on for a short time. So I attached the bottom circuit part to the upper part as in the circuit diagram. At first I turned on the inverter, and then the switch that turned on the upper part, but nothing happened. I could hear the transistor switching, but there were no sparks. I turned the inverter off, but still no sparks. Only if I remove one of the bottom circuit wires from the spark gap, the sparks appear. What could be the problem? Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Jetijs

That's a good demo. Best so far of the arc staying lit. Nice work.

Just out of interest is there any theoretical efficiency gained by using this method compared to electrolysis and piping hydrogen directly to the combustion chamber as Daniel Dingel does now?

YouTube - Water Car ... Daniel Dingel

Also the general process is exactly the method which Stanley Meyer was using as described on wikipedia.

"He replaced the spark plugs with "injectors" to spray a fine mist of water into the engine cylinders, which he claimed were subjected to an electrical resonance. The fuel cell would split the water mist into hydrogen and oxygen gas, which would then be combusted back into water vapor in a conventional internal combustion engine to produce net energy."

Except that they misunderstood the concept. It's obvious now that he didn't use the spark plugs to create the spray for injecting. He used the spray as the method to get the hydrogen excited so it could be easily split by the arc that the plugs provided when lit.

In the end though it's just igniting hydrogen.

Makes me wonder why for so many years so much money has been invested into Fuel cells and supposedly delayed due to not being able to create enough hydrogen for the mass market at efficient prices. Doh, all they needed was a car battery and they could star the ball rolling.

I'm thinking that hydrogen would make a good modification for my gas oven. What is the likelihood of blowing myself up if the gas was left on for a couple of minutes like with lpg? Would the hydrogen dissipate quickly and be less of a hazard?

Finally I have noticed that there is a lot of momentum on Hydrogen as a fuel in the past month from many different parts of the world. Seems that critical mass has been reached now and it may not be long for this idea to become common knowledge. Keep up the good work exploring the possibilities.

Gotgas:
I read your post #34 about 4 times. Very insightful for me, thanks for taking the time to write it. I am finally starting to understand the principle. I had to read the thread several times. The capacitor size does not matter, it just matters that there is a compactor because of its characteristics. The characteristics of the inductor (ignition coil) also matter. Now I can start seeing the circuit for what it truly is.

I built the capacitor70's circuit and I keep blowing the transistor? I will have to do some more reading. I wrote the guy who made that cold fusion plasma 9 video. Maybe he will reply. Rick

I love this subject, it is utterly cool and my deepest respect goes to all who are building and studying it!!

When you consider the possibilities and permutations of testing the spark performance under pressure conditions (which is certainly important work), it would seem to get deceptively complex.... For instance, because the water content of the air has been proven by Luc to be a factor you would have to decide what relative humidity air to use Compressing humid air of a certain relative humidity should increase the actual humidity level inside the chamber verses "1 atmosphere"... Which could certainly account for differing spark observations.

Test open-air with 60% humidity, then take an air supply of 10% humidity and compress to 6 atmospheres? Dunno for sure if that works lineally, tho. Yikes. Scratch that one lol.

Or simply compress differing humidity air and compare the sparks. Still doesn't tell you what effects/changes are simply from compression and not humidity :/

So maybe some sort of base line would first be needed on how the spark reacts at different relative humidities at 1 atmosphere. So just how to accurately and repeatably do that? Judging by color alone may be perfectly good for someone working alone, but difficult to relate subtle differences to fellow experimenters. Photography light meters? Dunno. The ones i've seen react rather slowly. And there is the infra-red content. Gotta be a better way...

...Unless you lived or tested in the desert, or anywhere humidity is very low anyway, and then compression would not significantly raise it. Then the humidity issue could be discounted and it gets a whole lot simpler.

The reason I posted those results was to show that a spark amplifies under pressure, and that white plasma can be obtained without going to the trouble of using inverters etc.

By going the high voltage route, I expect we will see a fast expiration of the spark plug components. Indeed, why have such a powerful spark in open air, when pressure in a combustion chamber will take care of the amplification for us.

I reason that as we already know a blue spark won't ignite water vapour, what if we amplify that blue spark with a simple inline capacitor to achieve the desired white stage, then see if it will do it's thing to water vapour under pressures above (for arguments sake) 75-100psi.

I feel that HHO is very much the key here, and there should later be a percentage of HHO mixed in with the water vapour, I reason that the HHO will aid the combustion of the water vapour and will assist the compressed white spark in getting a decent ignition event happening. It would be a 2 stage approach.

My test bell window is already leaking, and while I intend to repair the leak, I'm also considering the fitting of a simple blow off valve(say 120psi) to the side of the bell head, (it does allow for that), and I may inject a water vapour at the white spark under pressure to see what happens.

I'll have to think this through as I don't want anything bad to occur. I can already see the pressure cell window making like a bullet if I get this right, or wrong??? Depends on which way you look at it I suppose.

If you look at nearly all the water fuel patents, they all fired multiple times. Most people think that the step charge was something that took place in the cell, that is not true and if you look at the circuit it is simple to see.

Another place people get confused is they are not sure if they are looking at a electrolyzer or an injector which I am sure is by design. Meyer's methods covered all of them from pulse compression US 4936961 seen here and is why the pulse train doubles, to what appears to be a plasma water resistor setup seen here in US 4798661

or even just his New Zealand video where he admits he patented up all the processes and did so with authorization of an executive order from Regan.

I really think it is time for people to break out of attempting to replicate and to begin to try new things, your own new things and if you ever hit pay dirt, remember the frustration we all feel and don't sell out or be the next Stanley, put it out there. You will never benefit any more than EVERYONE if history is our guide.

Siemens is a large corporation and they make piezo injectors that produce a pressure greater than 10,000 feet below the surface of the ocean for the new European emission standards. Therein may be your injector / fine mist solution. Siemens also has done extensive research in electrolysis and offers for sale transformers "rich in current harmonics". They are the size of a truck. Google "siemens electrolysis" if you get bored.

The Bohr model of the atom states that when a mass loses energy, it absorbs light. Voltage is light and in GB they refer to the electrostatic force of the atom as the color force if I am not mistaken. Meyer used a 120 PSI water pump. When water goes from 120 PSI to ambient instantly, it almost or does boil for a moment.

So I really feel it is important to follow your intuition. We have enough people doing monkey see monkey do Dave cells and other useless distractions although there is something to be learned from all of it.

I am going in the mag amp direction and current rich harmonics which is what Boyce was up to I suspect. The reason is all the water cars have a power source the size of a welding box. In fact, Meyer's looks like one that was painted over on his dune buggy. The Japan car from a few weeks ago, same thing. Dingle's power supply appears to be that size and the part of the core you can see looks to be the size of my 70 amp welder. Current is magnetic, voltage is not.

Here is a shot of the underside of Dingel's hood and the japan water car power supply. Both scream magnetic current and current rich harmonics to me.

Attached Images

	dingel_elec_mag.jpg (18.0 KB, 87 views)
	japan_waterfuel_ps.gif (39.7 KB, 81 views)

Did you mean to say "By going the high amperage route"? Since voltage isn't going to hurt anything, amperage is what we use to weld with.

I can touch my finger to a million volts and it won't hurt me or anything else except a CMOS chip perhaps. On the other hand, 300ma of current is usually what they use to start/stop your heart at the hospital.

Thanks for posting those results by the way - it was interesting. I suppose the higher the air pressure, the more conductive it gets since there are more ions available. You could probably use the law of squares and atmospheres to calculate exactly what what would be with a given air sample.

I didn't think to use the neon. Do you still maintain a good plasma? My diode exploded and hit me in the face. I added a relay contact to disconnect the power during firing. DA!

This circuit operates way different than what I originally thought. What a goofy idea, mixing a high voltage and high current line together like this. Who'd of thunk it?

Is there some science that suggests something different is going on here or is this a way to compensate for not having the right plasma source / transformer?

Tomorrow, if all works out well, I will get an old Russian car in fairly good condition. It has no computers, no sensors, no nothing. It has a spark distributor, that can be turned in any timing position you need. I always wanted a test car for my booster, joecell, ect. experiments. So you will have to help me to get this thing to run on water.

Hello folks,

I was just over at the waterfuel1978 group site, and noticed that a new message and file had been posted by s1r9a9m9. As files seem to be disappearing at that site, about as quickly as they are posted, I immediately copied the file and posted it in the Public folder of my Windows Sky Drive.
I think that should be okay since waterfuel1978 is an open public forum, and I gave full credit to s1r9a9m9 as being the document author. I will show a link to the file between the dotted lines below, but first an explanation is in order.

When Gotoluc posted his s1r9a9m9 replication videos on YouTube, s1r9a9m9 watched the videos and made the following comment, "Nice set up. If you use a coil with two windings going through a main coil to boost the output spark up about 10 times what you have now, you will have a system almost like mine."

Today, sir9a9m9 posted a new message concerning this coil, along with a document explaining it further. He also said that he would be posting a video soon, showing how the coil is actually wound. Hopefully he will also share some additional details.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is a link to the transformer file:
S1r9a9m9 transformer coil.rtf - Windows Live SkyDrive

UPDATE - S1r9a9m9 has now also posted a photo showing the silver cup that appeared in his YouTube video of the 18 hp engine running on water, and also shows what was inside the cup. You will see this photo, and a close-up of the photo, plus a new pdf file in which s1r9a9m9 explains the step-up transformer coil that was in the silver cup. See them here:
S1r step up transformer coil.jpg - Windows Live SkyDrive
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Note that s1r9a9m9 says the inverter isn't needed, and that in fact it can not even be used with the transformer setup. It looks like s1r is finally going to show us the missing pieces (or at least some of them), and that is great.

I hope this information spurs some additional experimentation and modification of the circuitry. I have been watching this thread with interest, and you have all been making excellent contributions to the effort. Keep up the great work!

Rickoff

Thanks Rick!
As for me, I finally figured out what the problem with my setup was. The high voltage from my induction coil was negative, that means that I needed to reverse the polarity of the bottom circuit part. Got some nice and powerful sparks, but the run battery went down. I will charge it up and then make a video. Also, all the sparking keeps disturbing nearby electronics - computers and radio, also my signal generator is affected in some way, sometimes it just restarts to the basic settings. I will have to leave some space between the signal generator and the spark gap.
Thanks.

Well, I killed my inverter
I wanted everything to be simple, so I used a bridge rectifier after the light bulb instead of the diode array. Like this:


The cap charged up and and the spark was very powerful. I set my function generator so that it fired the transistor about 2 times per second. And then, after about 10 powerful sparks, the inverter died. I should have used those diode arrays, maybe it would protect my inverter. After this I opened the inverter and saw that there are two 30A fuses burned out. But I don't think that replacing those fuses everything will work again.

@ Jetijs or anybody for that matter:

An ignition coil circuit needs a resistor on the coil to work properly. Some coils have them internally and some will even state on the coil what they need. Usually it is a big sand block about 8 ohms or so,

Hi folks,

Please see my last post in this thread (#73), which I have edited to include links to a photo showing what was inside the mysterious silver cup that appeared in the YouTube videos showing sir9a9m9 running the 18 hp engine on water. I have posted the photo, and a close-up of it, along with an rtf file and pdf file showing s1r's description of the device. This is key to getting an engine to run on water. It's the part Gotoluc didn't know about when he built his s1r9a9m9 replication, because it was hidden from view by the silver cup. Note also that s1r9a9m9 has promised to release a new video within the next few days that will make everything clearer, but there is already enough shown in the photo and documents to enable proper modification of the Gotoluc circuit to achieve a plasma spark capable of running an engine.

Jetijs - don't worry about the inverter. S1r9a9m9 saysthat you don't need an inverter, and in fact can't use it with his step-up transformer. The transformer is so simple that it will make you laugh (it's just a single common nail core, with three short coils wrapped on it), but we have all seen that it does the job, and it is the missing link in the circuits that everyone is experimenting with. Check it out!

Best to everyone, Rickoff

Rick,
I downloaded that image of the drawing and cleaned it up....I also converted it to B&W and its very clear. If you want I will email it to you so you can put that one up instead. Just pm me and give me an address to send it...

Thanks Rick for posting these updates. Very interesting indeed!

This method is different from Luc's method and appears more powerful if it is able to run a car better (so far). However, Luc's method has shown some things that some people have a hard time believing in my explanation.

I have a Goldstar OS 9020-A...not a Rolls Royce but gives me what I need. Has anyone scoped the cap to prove to themselves the activity of what the personality of the cap is while dumping to the ignition coil? How many times is something happening per pulse, etc...?

I am now using a 5A 150V variac...the output of variac...one lead to bridge and other lead to light bulb and light bulb to bridge...bulb is 110V 40W and limits current quite well. I can crank it up no problem.

Anyway, I just posted this for fun:
YouTube - Water Spark Plug | Radiant Energy | Temperature Drop
Temperature drops on plug spark 7 degrees when running a couple seconds.

I don't think that is quite right Aaron and here is why. The temperature goes back up 7 degrees instantly after it is stopped. It's one thing to suspect that your circuit does something new but the universe is pretty reliable when it come to thermodynamics. :-)

It's that whole "I will see it when I believe it thing. Last night I got two jumper wires to my scope reversed and for 36 seconds was the most gifted electrical engineer on Earth. I had invented the bifilar coil distributed capacitance pulse inverter... And I do mean it was a perfect square wave inverter with zero loss. Then I noticed my reversed wires and got some sleep. It happens to all of us, you are working too hard, take a day off.

I think what we have here is just a emf problem with the temp probe. Move it back as far as possible, wrap the temp probe in Al foil and earth ground that. I suspect the temp reading might be a bit different and the universe will go back to emitting heat normally. :-) God I'm funny...

Non resistor plugs seem to be in extreme short supply.
Auto parts stores don't carry them any more (at least the ones I've stopped at)
? Which manufacturers can we take apart to remove resistor?

Gota love so called progress, hindering progress

Checkers: Box reads: Autolite 64. On the plug: Champion RJ12YC

Hi folks,

Another member at waterfuel1978, XboxHacker, has created a diagram of s1r9a9m9's step-up transformer coil. I have added that to my Sky Drive files, and you can see it here:
coil_setup.png - Windows Live SkyDrive [Update - while the referenced diagram is nearly correct, the leads as shown on coil #3 are in reverse of how S1r's are actually connected.]
The core material is a galvanized 20 penny (4 inch) common nail. The MAIN winding is 5 turns of solid, bare, 14 gauge copper wire with 4" leads at the ends. The SECOND winding is 7 turns 16 gauge insulated multi-strand copper wire from a comman lamp cord. The THIRD winding is 13 turns of the same wire used by the SECOND winding. Note that the THIRD winding is connected direct to the battery positive terminal and then to the SECOND winding. It is very important that the SECOND and THIRD windings must have current passing through them at all times, and thus the SECOND winding passes to ground through a current using device such as a fog light, fan, or whatever.

Regarding the transformer coil, s1r9a9m9 wrote today:
"The [step-up transformer] coil must have a power supply at all times
to energize the wire when the engine coil fires. This can be done by
useing a fog light or small 12 volt motor, or just some thing that will
draw power through the wire through the coil. It may be possible to run
the charging wire from the alternator to the battery through the coil and
get the same results. It would not be drawing any power from the
system because it would not be interupted as it flows to the battery.
I am still reading through about 6 thousnd pages of work others have
provided on this project. I gots a head ache. I am still looking for a source
for the relays. If I find any I will let every one know where I got them.
Some one said that you cant get high voltage from a 12 volt system
just useing the power of the battery and alt.,. but what is the
voltage coming from the cars coil to the plugs on a car? the fire
that has always bit me has been over 28000v @ 0.78 amps. or more.
now all we are doing is adding another coil to boost the fire from
the first coil to 100 times the stock out put, but we are doing a
little more we are slowing it down a little and adding some amps back
to it as well. It ant rocket science but its not far from it. It seems simple
to be able to work, but a lot of time has went into this, and its not
finished yet. The engine still surges. It needs a fuel supply system that
feeds it as it needs it. there are other things that need to be done as well.
I dont have all the answers but I am looking. I just got lucky on the Elcamino
and the generator. Now it needs to be made to go on any car or truck, and
cheap as posible. A 65amp alternator will charge three car batteries under a
30 percent load, and maintain the batteries at 90 percent charge. So how
many math-tithions will say this cant be done. When the car is running how
much powere does it use? Now starting it is another thing , about 150
amps is pulled from the battery when starting a car engine it is
replaced with in the first 2 minutes of run time. this is the hardest
time for the batterys life , heavy discharge then quick recharge. But
how much power does the rest of the car use? Less than 8 percent of
the batteries copasity. unless you turn on every thing then you are
useing 20 percent. Stuff on a car does not draw a constant load. It
veries with engine speed battery condition and other factors as well.
Refrence to GM spects on automoitive electrical system uses and
condition of components. Thats some tough reading. So we put this
coil on each plug with a load pulled through it going to maybe some
thing that is being used all the time any ways and we now have a
system within a system that will draw 3 percent more from the power
system than before. We are still not over taxing our battery and
charging system.

Now as for how to get the water fuel into the cylinders, I havent a
clue as to how each vehicle will be done. Its not a constant flow to
each piston. It takes a lot, but only when it needs it."

As to water introduction to the 18 hp Briggs and Stratton engine used
for the YouTube videos, s1r says, "I ran the [water] hose
into the breather port hole and not through the carb.
None of the engine was modified except the breather filter
removed. This is a stock engine running on water.
The vaccum in the bottle was needed for this test, it had to draw
only what it needed as it needed it, as you could see in video 2
when I gave it too much it shut down and water vapor came out the
exhaust. A valve would have helped but my budget is gone, And its
shoe string streching time for parts.
Well as I said I dont have all the answers but I do have a bunch of
papers to go through and sort out a few more things.
I am working on a video to show how to make the coil and what it does
hooked up and working.

S1R."

As you can see, s1r's working concept is very simple, and doesn't need any complicated circuitry to make it work. It would be fun to test this out on a 10kw home generator, such as a Honda EB11000, which uses a 20 hp, 2 cylinder, 615cc 4-stroke engine. The second cylinder would help smooth out the rotations.

As s1r points out, the greatest challenge in adapting this to any engine is the water delivery method. We have seen his 18 hp engine run on straight, undispersed, unheated water. It does seem logical to conclude that pre-heated water, introduced as a fine mist, would be preferable. In either case, though, once the plasma spark disassociates and ignites a certain volume of
the water, the remaining water vapor will be converted to high pressure steam, adding to the force of the power stroke.

It is interesting to note that in his 350 El Camino setup, s1r took the engine exhaust and ran it through a small tank with baffles to separate the water and recirculate it to his water tank pre-heated. This boosted the engine efficiency, and recirculating the water allowed him to achieve 300 mpg of water used.

I hope that all will find this interesting and useful in the ongoing water fuel experiments. Best to all,

Rickoff

http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...1&d=1215667813

S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!


Hello,

"Postive Earth", said Joe (THE Joe) already 10 years ago.

He gave the hint that the old brit. cars had the positive pole of the batterie connected to the chassis of the car; all switching worked thru negative wire.

He also stated those never had any starting problems, even in the steady (looking from Australia to England) rain they started w/o choke, and didnt rust.


........the positive earth give/gave a improved ignition ..........


Please, might one or more of the researchers change the polarity of their (working/existing) LV-HV-Waterspark device, and give the opposite common ground, switch the other polarity, and turn the diodes.

Nothing changed, but polarity. What is the influence to spark property?

magnetO

Good luck with that request. I suggested the same things at first page of this thread. No answer so far.

Lighty, if you can provide a circuit schematic of what you want to test out, I could try it tomorrow. Just show me how to hook everything up

@Jetijs

Pls look at my posts to Aaron regarding reversed polarity. I provided schematics. I should have known I could count on you.

I have done the same temp test only taking temp readings when the plug is NOT sparking. Test temp...let it spark a while...turn off, then test temp.

Doing the test above is simpler than any protocols to eliminate emp influencing the thermometer...simply, only measure when there is no emp....only when the entire thing is off.

The temp will stay the SAME or will DROP.

Hi Red,

Thanks for doctoring up the diagram and sending it to me. I have posted it here: S1rRelay in bw.jpg - Windows Live SkyDrive It is much easier to read in black & white than with the yellow background. That one shows the relay circuitry that s1r9a9m9 uses. The only reason why s1r uses an inverter is because the heavy duty appliance relays that he has been using require 110V AC power to operate. You will note that the relay circuit does not show s1r's step-up-transformer, which is really the most important part of the circuitry. Please see my post #83 in this thread for complete info about the step-up transformer.

Thanks again, and best wishes,

Rickoff

That isn't the video you showed. In this video the entire thing was on and a chunk of metal suddenly gained 7 degrees in less than a second once it was turned off.

I am not saying it is impossible for electricity to reduce temperature. I can show you an experiment that takes 60 seconds to complete where ionic wind produces electrostatic cooling. My questions with the test arise when there is a temperature GAIN once it is turned off.

Lastly, the test is hardly conclusive with only one method of measurement by one person where the equipment is subjected to noise. Familiar with the term "laser cooling"?