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  #1  
Old 06-15-2019, 09:23 PM
Cadman Cadman is offline
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Cadmanís Hydrostatic Displacement Engine © 2019 Cadman Weyland

Cadmanís Hydrostatic Displacement Engine
An open source self sustaining gravity powered device. Free for personal or commercial use.

Please download the attached document

Main discussion here
https://overunity.com/18243/cadmans-...gine/msg535315

Cadman
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Cadmans Hydrostatic Displacement Engine.pdf (92.2 KB, 40 views)
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Old 06-23-2019, 11:39 AM
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Gambeir Gambeir is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadman View Post
Cadman’s Hydrostatic Displacement Engine
An open source self sustaining gravity powered device. Free for personal or commercial use.

Please download the attached document

Main discussion here
https://overunity.com/18243/cadmans-...gine/msg535315

Cadman
Thanks for posting your work here. I carefully read over the pdf one time, further scanning over the info at the link, and I take it you have yourself built a quasi-operational system? Quasi meaning that it might not be pretty nor ready for prime time, but one which proves the design? Just asking is all out of personal interest. Any kind of pictures of your set-up would be useful if you have constructed a prototype.

What can I say? If this is working then it is certainly something which many people can reproduce. I'd love to see any multi-cylinder designs you may have, now or later, and once more thanks for posting this here.
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Old 06-24-2019, 01:21 PM
Cadman Cadman is offline
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Hello Gambeir,

I have not finished a complete prototype yet. I repeated the lift test I had done previously and posted a photo of it at OU. Not that that is any kind of proof to those who would think it's a fake.
I have also posted a detailed analysis with drawings of a prototype similar to the one being constructed, and I invite anyone to calmly and rationally point out any errors they think I might have made as long as they can back it up with the math.

When it is finished I intend to post the complete design and also a video if I can get it on line at Youtube.

Regards,
Cadman
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Old 06-28-2019, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadman View Post
Hello Gambeir,

I have not finished a complete prototype yet. I repeated the lift test I had done previously and posted a photo of it at OU. Not that that is any kind of proof to those who would think it's a fake.
I have also posted a detailed analysis with drawings of a prototype similar to the one being constructed, and I invite anyone to calmly and rationally point out any errors they think I might have made as long as they can back it up with the math.

When it is finished I intend to post the complete design and also a video if I can get it on line at Youtube.

Regards,
Cadman
Thanks for answering and as for what others think; well you can lead a horse to water but you're never going to force it to drink if it hasn't the mind to do so.
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Old 06-28-2019, 09:23 PM
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OK, all caught up on the amusing discussion over at OU; along with the great video's. Just for your own comfort, take heart in the fact that in general some egg head's get wrapped up in singularities, and I am fairly certain that's what happened with some of your fans at OU. Further, since many of the people involved in these topics are male, that amounts to a double strike against seeing what should have been obvious from the get go, and that's a fact of nature proven in numerous studies, and being aware of that fact is important to recognize if you are a male because it is our inclination to become blind to the surrounding information.


Objects that have more density than the surrounding matter will sink. The greater the density the higher the sink rate. The navies of the world have pretty much tried every conceivable way to make that happen, mostly by making holes in ships, which then obviously allows the lighter density of water to surround the object ship.

Steel is never going to find an equilibrium with water, as evidently someone over at OU thought, and such that it is suspended at some depth, which seems to have been one argument, and which seems to have arisen out of some disjointed notions about pressure. The displacement piston can only be supported by pressure density, which means the water must be contained since the water is not itself of the same density as the piston, and a hole through the piston makes that impossible even when connected to a riser tube. The piston is going to sink and the fluid is going to move up the riser tube. Evidently that concept was lost to some in the discussion, and whom seem to have thought even with a hole in the piston the piston would sit atop the water, but a hole allows the less dense water to move; a de facto envelopment.

As a side note: Pressure altitude density is an important factor in aviation and worth remembering because variables can alter the density of space. That understanding finally lead to the hypothesis that maybe the oceans themselves do funky things, from time to time, and not just the sky's over our own heads. This includes the possibility that gas release from oceans might explain the vanishing of ships since that would change the density of the surrounding volume of water: I'm sure you're familiar with the concept. In truth we are probably just now getting the some kind of similar concept about the atmosphere itself as a possible explanation for mysterious aviation disasters.

My point is, if there is a will, there is a way, and just because you begin with one density does not mean you have to end up only using that density in fluids and gases, and if Ken Wheeler is correct, and he is, then that also applies to solid objects as well: Understand? It's just something I think is worth bearing in mind because options always exist to make the impossible and improbable possible.

As you are obviously aware, the weight of a piston determines the pressure applied to the fluid beneath, while the diameter of the inlet determines the head pressure and therefore how high or far it can potentially move. Head pressure being akin to temp in thermometer, but in addition what isn't being taken into account by fans over at OU is the water pressure at the inlet that leads down from the holding tank, and which falls slightly more than five feet down to the first point of inlet where: *Atmospheric pressure is double for every ten feet of depth. So that pressure is further exploitable by the diameter of the inlet hole.

A potential force multiplication exists since a 63" inch depth is slightly over 5 feet, so you have a 1.5 atmospheric pressure potential, and not just the 14.7lbs standard air pressure at sea level. * Note that this varies according to the actual outside air pressure (*real and true air density is altitude pressure), but standard is 14.7 lbs at sea level for calculation purposes. Therefore slightly over 22.5 Lbs of pressure exists at the bottom of pipe leading down from the the holding tank. I'm not sure if the fans you're accumulating have considered the aforementioned and so I bring these to you for consideration.

That inlet pressure is a factor to take into consideration, and when taken in with the diameter of the inlet hole, should determine the head pressure of the inlet water. I'm not sure this is something taken into account and probably needs some more figuring to see if this matters, and if so is it an exploitable matter to consider?

The other thing was this discussion which resulted in some video's. Water has a density that is less than steel/iron and because of that fact any material of greater density will sink if the displacement of the volume of mass is breached. In other words, the a hole in the middle of your design reproduces that breach, and therefore the displacement piston sinks forcing the volume below it to rise. I can't believe it took a video to show that. Nevertheless, I still enjoyed the work and effort of that was put forth to prove the point.
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  #6  
Old 07-05-2019, 11:52 PM
Solarlab Solarlab is offline
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Hi Cadman;

Great work and very interesting, thanks!

The links below might be similar to your concept development and may possibly contain some valuable design and construction insight and info.


Design and Construction of a Hydraulic Ram Pump

(including a bit of history and analysis)
Shuaibu Ndache MOHAMMED
Department of Mechanical Engineering,
Federal University of Technology, Minna, Nigeria
Design and Construction of a Hydraulic Ram Pump from Leonardo Electronic Journal of Practices and Technologies

Abstract
The Design and Fabrication of a Hydraulic Ram Pump (Hydram) is undertaken. It is meant to lift water from
a depth of 2m below the surface with no other external energy source required. Based on the design the
volume flow rate in the derived pipe was 4.5238 ◊ 10-5 m3/s (2.7 l/min), Power was 1.273 kW which results
in an efficiency of 57.3%. The overall cost of fabrication of this hydram shows that the pump is relatively
cheaper than the existing pumps.
Keywords
Hydram; Pump; Volume Flow Rate; Power; Efficiency; Impulse Valve; Delivery Valve.

Home Built Hydraulic Ram Pumps
http://www.inthefieldministries.org/...am%20Pumps.pdf
"Complete detailed and illustrated instructions from locally available pumping parts - 1" Hydraulic RAM"
How to build a RAM PUMP
French River Springs
Published on Jul 7, 2018
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enBEMgDR3-A

How to Make a Large Size Free Energy Water Pump - Ram Pump
Tradisional Channel
Published on Dec 28, 2018
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Esln877z4IE

Hydraulic RAM Pumps - Amazon (wxamples)
Small - $125US - - - Large - $185US
https://www.amazon.com/Hydraulic-Ram.../dp/B072J2Q7L6

Regards and good wishes, SL

[also posted these a few days back on OU but it's still waiting censor/moderator approval ]
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Old 07-06-2019, 02:06 PM
RAMSET RAMSET is offline
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always liked Most of your contributions

SolarLab
glad to see you posting somewhere ,I know there was a ruff time at
Stefan's forum with Wesley's blog spot [his notebook]

I had read there that you work to help Kids understand the "whatifs" ?
and hunt outside the box.

a more noble cause would be hard to imagine .

I know the topic here makes for very strong opinions .
member Evolvingape forwarded these few words for perspective...
and just how much we really still have unknowns or "Whahtifs"
to consider.

NOTE : I post this for perspective in fluid systems , not specific to Cadman's design principle.

the simple siphon [or is it ....?
snip
For much of scientific history, scientists have believed that siphons work because of the force of atmospheric pressure. A basic siphon consists of a tube in a larger container that goes up over a hump (the edge of the container) to empty out into a container at a lower level.

When liquid is sucked through the tube over the hump and begins to empty into the other container, a decrease in atmospheric pressure is caused at the highest point in the tube (where it passes over the hump). This decrease results in the atmospheric pressure on the surface of the liquid pushing liquid up into the tube toward the area of lower pressure.

While the atmospheric pressure theory seems to make sense, some scientists noted that it requires the presence of air. When tested in a vacuum, a siphon still worked, so it seemed that some other force must also be at work.

More recently, scientists who have studied siphons have theorized that the key force is gravity. When liquid is sucked up the tube and over the hump, the force of gravity continues to pull the liquid through the tube. This theory relies upon liquid cohesion, which means a continuous chain of cohesive bonds must exist in the liquid.

Some scientists refer to this as the chain model, because you can think of the water like a chain being pulled through the tube instead of a liquid. When you begin to pull the chain through the tube and over the hump, gravity will take over and continue to pull the entire length of the chain through the tube.

Unfortunately, most liquids don't necessarily have strong cohesive bonds to make them act this way. Other scientists have created flying droplet siphons and carbon dioxide gas siphons that feature gas bubbles that exist between liquid molecules.

It may be the case that atmospheric pressure, gravity, and liquid cohesion all work together to make siphons work the way they do. Scientists will continue to study siphons to figure out once and for all how they work.
end snip
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
IMO these type of experiments or concepts should never be dismissed
as settled science ...

our ability to manipulate the environment around us grows with each passing second.
and persons like Cadman stir that Pot...and encourage more "outathebox"
thoughts.
besides its Funn !!

respectfully
Chet K

PS
to SL
would be nice to read you in other places too..maybe things can get sorted?
respectfully
Chetkremens@gmail.com
pps as an example member Kator 01 [a wonderful contributor ]
made a comment here on some "plasma cloud" ??
https://overunity.com/18269/revoluti...msg536149/#new

Note : not looking to side track this topic
will remove off topic bits in a few days [or the whole post if requested]
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Old 07-09-2019, 06:51 AM
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Gambeir Gambeir is online now
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Honestly, scientists or idiots, because I'm not sure the former fits. I had no idea that any other explanation for how a siphon works even existed other than by gravity. Totally crazy theorizing but greatful and amused for the trouble.

Above all else suction is what defines a siphon. A siphon is a gravity powered suction device, I can't really say motor, but something near enough that it might be seen as such. I didn't see any reference to the concept of a vacuum in the entire litany of retarded thinking. Thanks for the extreme effort it must have taken to put in writing the idea's of the truly mentally incompetent.

These people seemed to have asked every possible combination of question in trying to understand a simple siphon except the most important one. Like say for example how a vacuum works. Good God, seriously stupid; I mean the closest any of them got was by some convoluted logic in applying Bernoulli's principle by way of atmospheric pressure change, a highly dubious concept in it's own right, especially considering that would mean it's possible to levitate a bucket of water by way of a siphon, at least if I read the logic to that one correctly.

How a siphon works is not a mystery, except evidently to contemporary self proclaimed scientists, and God help all of us if these are actually certified rubber stamped and tagged one's. Just imagine having your kid get a PHD in physics and not even be able to grasp the basics of how a siphon works. Well there's a 100K well spent huh? Christ Sakes the thinking is just otherworldly.

First you have to have a vacuum to make a siphon, and the vacuum is enabled by there being a tube, then you have to have enough vacuum in the tube to draw the liquid up and over the highest point: So long as vacuum is maintained, and there is moving fluid in the fall, then the fluid being siphoned will continue to move up and over the high point. The vacuum is maintained by the fact that the feed end is immersed in liquid and must remain immersed in liquid for the siphon to continue working. The vacuum is the motive force driving the siphon and created by the fluid moving on the fall side of the siphon. This moving fluid must be greater in volume than the water it raises above the high point.

Weight, balance, and fulcrum point: Why have they made this so absurdly confusing other than to use this sort of guile to make a buck by making the absurd seem a mystery?
Alternatively, maybe this is like a covert IQ test to see how dumbed down and mind controlled people are? I mean you got "Scientists" telling you these things; must be true huh?
This is truly a case of being blinded by science. With this kind of idiocy polluting the mainstream the future of that profession is seriously in doubt.

Thanks for posting that BTW and I don't think it sidetracks anything either. Well worth reading through I think, mainly because of what it illustrates as supposed scientific thought, I just hope none of them are getting tax payer dollars to study how a siphon works.
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Old 07-09-2019, 11:24 AM
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citfta citfta is offline
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Sorry Gambeir, but your post doesn't make any sense.

You start out by saying that gravity is the way a siphon works but then later you claim that vacuum is what makes it work. And you bashed the post prior to yours, but then explained how a siphon works with a description that is almost identical to the one in the post you bashed. And obviously there is more to how a siphon works than just vacuum because as posted in the prior post a siphon still works even when the whole siphon is in a vacuum.

It should be clear to anyone that has used or worked with siphons that gravity is the primary force that makes a siphon work. The weight of the water pulling down on the output side of the siphon has to be greater than the weight of the water being pulled up into the siphon tube.

But the cohesion of the water does play an important part in the operation. If you try to make a siphon with a very large tube the water will separate as it comes out of the tube and allow air into the tube which will stop the siphon action. In a smaller tube the cohesion of the water prevents this from happening.

Respectfully,
Carroll
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Old 07-09-2019, 01:21 PM
RAMSET RAMSET is offline
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just paying attention here [or trying]

somebody say Vacuum ?
Member Evolvingape had shared this vid after asking a question.[regarding this topic ...and he is not a naysayer ,quite the opposite.

"what is the weight of a liter of water in a vacuum at sea level on Earth "

EA quote
So regarding the weight of a liter of water in a vacuum at sea level on Earth what fluid is the water displacing in a vacuum and therefore what is the buoyancy force?

It can't be the same apparent weight as air or water gives can it?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDfI2piICvM&app=desktop

to note Evolvingape is helping some of us who have issues with
wrapping our heads around the math the medium and the whatifs..
towards a happy ending to benefit humanity..

BTW the simple siphon "snip"above.. was his contribution,and honestly
flying droplet siphons and carbon dioxide gas siphons
or whatever...
just paying attention here and grateful for the lessons.

I believe the idea of manipulating Mass in the gravity field an amazing area to explore.



respectfully
Chet K
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Old 07-09-2019, 01:38 PM
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Gambeir Gambeir is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citfta View Post
Sorry Gambeir, but your post doesn't make any sense.
Probably because you didn't read it but reacted to it. There is a difference believe me. Take a time out, and then another, and then see what you think instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by citfta View Post
And you bashed the post prior to yours, but then explained how a siphon works with a description that is almost identical to the one in the post you bashed.
Nope; I bashed the ideas in the post. I thanked Ramset for troubling himself with writing them down.

You're completely in error on both counts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by citfta View Post
You start out by saying that gravity is the way a siphon works but then later you claim that vacuum is what makes it work.
Look, you say exactly what I did in your statement below but without the critical understanding that a vacuum is the motive force. Without a vacuum gravity itself cannot act to pull water over the edge of a bucket.

The motive force is a vacuum. A siphon is by definition a vacuum pump. It is not a weight and balance beam, but rather a weight and balance tube with the fulcrum being the vacuum itself.

The critical part is to not become lost in minutia of absurdities. Water sticks together without any assistance or worry that it will decide to part bonds. Cohesion is an absurdity so far as understanding the motive force because it's given that the reason water flows is because it is a fluid made possible by cohesion. So yes of course it's important but it is a quality. We aren't dealing with sand but with fluids.

Cohesion is not the motive force but rather a requirement for a vacuum draw: A draw being a lift.

Quote:
Originally Posted by citfta View Post
It should be clear to anyone that has used or worked with siphons that gravity is the primary force that makes a siphon work. The weight of the water pulling down on the output side of the siphon has to be greater than the weight of the water being pulled up into the siphon tube.
Quote:
Originally Posted by citfta View Post
And obviously there is more to how a siphon works than just vacuum because as posted in the prior post a siphon still works even when the whole siphon is in a vacuum.
Changing the operating enviroment to a vacuum does not mean that a vacuum isn't present inside the tube, and which is greater than the outside vacuum chamber, nor does it prove that the siphon isn't working just because the whole is now inside a vacuum.

There's just not enough information to make any rational deduction with this statement. I mean we have no clue what was measured or what was tried. Does the siphon now flow uphill? Did anyone measure the internal vacuum pressure in the siphon? So this is interesting but that's all because we don't have anywhere near enough information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by citfta View Post
But the cohesion of the water does play an important part in the operation. If you try to make a siphon with a very large tube the water will separate as it comes out of the tube and allow air into the tube which will stop the siphon action. In a smaller tube the cohesion of the water prevents this from happening.

Respectfully,
Carroll
Well yea, it's not glue, it's water. It doesn't take a genius to understand that concept, but try this with something more sticky than water and you're going to be able to use a bigger pipe, that is if the cohesion story sticks. Environments determine requirements. Change the Enviroment and you've changed the requirements. What may be a requirement in the atmosphere is not the same as it might be in space. I consider the application of a vacuum to be an extreme form of environmental alteration.
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Old 07-09-2019, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAMSET View Post
somebody say Vacuum ?
Member Evolvingape had shared this vid after asking a question.[regarding this topic ...and he is not a naysayer ,quite the opposite.

"what is the weight of a liter of water in a vacuum at sea level on Earth "

EA quote
So regarding the weight of a liter of water in a vacuum at sea level on Earth what fluid is the water displacing in a vacuum and therefore what is the buoyancy force?

It can't be the same apparent weight as air or water gives can it?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDfI2piICvM&app=desktop

to note Evolvingape is helping some of us who have issues with
wrapping our heads around the math the medium and the whatifs..
towards a happy ending to benefit humanity..

BTW the simple siphon "snip"above.. was his contribution,and honestly
flying droplet siphons and carbon dioxide gas siphons
or whatever...
just paying attention here and grateful for the lessons.

I believe the idea of manipulating Mass in the gravity field an amazing area to explore.


respectfully
Chet K
I understand Ramset.

Falling weight of water in a tube = vacuum. That's one thing, moving weight by way of a motional fluid is quite another, and water is not so sticky that it can be pulled like a chain, or like glue, nor is it sticky enough to explain away a siphon as something so simple as linked chains. The idea is absurd. You can't pull a stick out of water, toss it over a wall, and thereby drain the swimming pool.

A tube enables a vacuum to be formed because fluids enable seals. The vacuum is what gives water it's cohesion in a tube and so that it can operate as a connected chain. We know this because the next way to move water is by capillary action. Water has to have either a guide which makes bonds as in capillary action or else a tube with a vacuum. That's my understanding.

I could be wrong of course about there being a requirement for a vacuum, but so far as I know a vacuum is the product of a siphon's action, and is what it takes to move water up and over the rim of a bucket. A suction does remain present at the pickup indicating that a vacuum is present in the siphon line when the siphon is running. I don't see any of that being addressed.
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Old 07-09-2019, 08:28 PM
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Gambeir Gambeir is online now
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I'm sorry if I've pissed people off but the whole idea that "Scientist's Say" is annoying as all get out; like ya know this is God broadcasting.

I was considering caving in slightly however we are living on Planet Earth, not lost in space, and what then is of significance? If there's a correlation which makes sense of the idea of why we would need to even consider a changed enviroment such as a vacuum chamber then it needs to be explained more clearly.

I do not see the relevance to the application at hand.

When liquid is sucked through the tube over the hump and begins to empty into the other container, a decrease in atmospheric pressure is caused at the highest point in the tube

I'm going to stick to my gun's for now. I still think it's idiotic science because obviously you have gravity on Earth and liquid cohesion is a given, but the final analysis of scientists is that gravity and cohesion are critical in explaining how a siphon works? Well maybe so for the crew of the Jupiter II, but for me here in the USofA it's plain old vacuum pressure.

Just remove the vacuum by drlling a hole in that high point of the tube and then see how important cohesion and gravity are in making a siphon work.
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Old 07-10-2019, 02:35 AM
RAMSET RAMSET is offline
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Nah

No worries over here ,and I doubt Carroll holds any ill will.

your a cool dude !!

Glad you share your thoughts !

Mine were never different from yours [on the siphon

but I did learn some new perspective from that link
and now I'm hoping there may be more to the story ...
?
we shall see ? ,one thing is certain...very cool topic to ponder all the whatifs

respectfully
Chet K
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Old 07-10-2019, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAMSET View Post
No worries over here ,and I doubt Carroll holds any ill will.

your a cool dude !!

Glad you share your thoughts !

Mine were never different from yours [on the siphon

but I did learn some new perspective from that link
and now I'm hoping there may be more to the story ...
?
we shall see ? ,one thing is certain...very cool topic to ponder all the whatifs

respectfully
Chet K
Thanks, I agree with you on the new perspective learning aspect as well ..Lol
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