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  #1  
Old 04-26-2019, 04:09 AM
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Multifilar Generator Coil - Lenz delay Experiments

Hi all, thought I would make a new thread for this, don't want to clutter up anyones thread.

Experimenting with the multifilar coil, lenz delay effect.
This coil has 50 strands of 30awg. magnet wire.

Used bailing wire, cut to short pieces and spray painted each piece for the core.

The pieces are shoved into a 3/4" diameter length of PVC pipe and super glued in place.
The coil/core former is adjustable.

Also used a new piece of wood for the base, as the previous base was warped and was causing vibrations and noise, it runs much smoother and quiter now.
Using a brushless 400 size, RC airplane motor for the drive, with 2s lithium ion battery pack, hooked to a reciever and transmitter.
Rotor has 8 - 1" diameter by 1/8" thick neo magnets and the rotor diameter is 3-3/4" to outside of magnets.
Will be placing coil strands in series to try and achieve lenz neutral or speed up at reasonably lower rpm's.
Questions or comments welcome.
peace love light

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  #2  
Old 04-26-2019, 05:48 PM
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Hi Turion, wow, thanks for all the great information.
Thanks for the coil offer, though I think for now, I'll just experiment with what I have.
It is 50 strands, should have made it 48 though.
I guess I'll just not use 2 of the strands, then I will have a 48 strand coil.
Only half way done marking all the strands with masking tape and checking continuity with meter for matching strands.
That is interesting about the connector strips.
Could it be, when using these multifilar coils at lenz neutral or speed up, maybe it is creating a different kind of energy that is flowing over the connector strip and short circuiting itself somehow.
Will continue working on this coil.
peace love light
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  #3  
Old 04-26-2019, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWatcher View Post
Hi all, thought I would make a new thread for this, don't want to clutter up anyones thread.

Experimenting with the multifilar coil, lenz delay effect.
This coil has 51 strands of 30awg. magnet wire.

Used bailing wire, cut to short pieces and spray painted each piece for the core.

The pieces are shoved into a 3/4" diameter length of PVC pipe and super glued in place.
The coil/core former is adjustable.

Also used a new piece of wood for the base, as the previous base was warped and was causing vibrations and noise, it runs much smoother and quiter now.
Using a brushless 400 size, RC airplane motor for the drive, with 2s lithium ion battery pack, hooked to a reciever and transmitter.
Rotor has 8 - 1" diameter by 1/8" thick neo magnets and the rotor diameter is 3-3/4" to outside of magnets.
Will be placing coil strands in series to try and achieve lenz neutral or speed up at reasonably lower rpm's.
Questions or comments welcome.
peace love light


hello Sky

You are really moving along, yes listen to Turion on man, that is what
he is here for. 48 is a great even number and one more thing, all of
these talks we are having right now are repeats of what you have
heard for years.

You are we acquainted with the details. You are very sharp and in my
opinion are one of the few who could actually move this tech forward
at a lower rotor speed. I would have beaten you but right now I am
out of time to do much on coils.

The lower rotor speed of 1200 rpms is still a mystery that I think will
be solved with the shorter strands though I have never heard of anyone
using such short strands and so many of them. Not even Turion. I
don't think so.

What maters is you are trying something new. The reason this test is so
important is that there are thousands out there already using a form
of an Adams or Bedini rotor running as much as 1000 rpm's using those
tape job rotors. They can all get their feet wet with their existing setup.

Here is another reason I like your test. Let's say that with this higher
resistance wire you reach the cancellation null point at the low rotor
speed using 24 strands. Not only would you another 24 strands to make
another output channel but maybe using all 48 strands might let you
run a 500 rpm rotor speed.

Wouldn't that be kool? I think that would be great. This could make for
a switchable multi-speed operation. A motor generator that works
collecting back power at many speeds. Like my room fan, it has 3 speeds.

I did the same thing painting up bailing wire.
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Old 04-27-2019, 12:39 AM
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Hi mike, thanks for the kind words and positive encouragement.
I see what you're saying, many more can use this, If it can be lenz neutral or better at lower rpm's.
By the way, I guess I did count correctly when I was in the backyard, the coil is 50 strands.
I finished labeling all the strands today, that was tedious.

Also, for those that may not have seen bromikey's coil making guidance in the other thread.

He gave the great idea of putting posts in the ground at 40 feet, and walking the wire around the posts, back and forth, till you have the number of strands you want.

Next step, going to connect strands in series, incrementally.
Then, short circuit them for each series coil pair added, to observe for decrease in lenz effect.
peace love light

Edit: Also just realized, I need to cover all the stripped ends of the strands not in use,
to prevent any of them from touching and messing with the experiment, so, no testing until that is done.
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  #5  
Old 04-27-2019, 10:09 AM
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Thank You Mr Turion

Here is me being audacious That's me. Squeaky wheel. I
feel like I need to be a public nuisance talking extremes to get
attention.

You will notice that the 11th strand (each one 170ft) was not the null
point but way way past allowing drive motor power reduction of nearly
500ma. Starting at 2400ma dropping to 1930ma without collecting
the coils energy. That energy amount was another 20watts so let look.
Using only half the coils strands. What if I had 6 coils?

88vac x 2400ma = 211 watts drive input dropped to

88vac X 1930ma = 170 watts then add another 20 watts or less.

At 17 strands I generated far less but speed up was great but because
my wire is only rated at 600vac and I was running 1100vac It has
weakened. Untrustworthy for any accurate measurements at this point.










......................
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  #6  
Old 04-27-2019, 10:14 PM
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So true, the collective army of youth coming over the hill.
Let's go boys. Reminds me of the first time I searched for Dave Lawton
to ask him a question and he had been long gone years ago.

Nothing lasts forever even tho most people think so.

Yes yes I would like to here more about these multi-coils. You say you
have some experience motoring and generating? Maybe the coil is the
same? Hum..? Well I must admit I have never plugged one into power
to see what it does.

Not sure where to start but guessing use any pickup method you like to
setup a triggering circuit to fire the coils when the magnet comes around?

How did I do? Do I get my picture on the cover of the ROLLING STONE?
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Old 04-27-2019, 11:09 PM
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Quick coil update

Hi all, Thanks for sharing the videos mike, I'll keep an eye on your channel.
Thanks for sharing that information turion, maybe after I get some experience with the generator coil aspect.

I've wired 12 coil strands in series so far and brought the rpm up to probably 1200-1400 rpm.
I'm noticing now when shorting the series coil, it is not bogging down as much, whereas with 1-6 coils in series, it was bogging hard.
Will continue the experiment.
peace love light

And here's the latest pic with wires all labeled and with end protectors, messy.

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Old 04-28-2019, 01:34 AM
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Last update for today

Hi all, At number 24 coil strand, when shorted, it is slowing down much less than at 12 coil strands, probably 50-60% less bogging, than at 12 strands.

I tested the 24 coil strands at 1725 rpm.
Also, the gap from permanent magnet to core is about 1/8".
peace love light
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Old 04-28-2019, 02:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWatcher View Post
Hi all, At number 24 coil strand, when shorted, it is slowing down much less than at 12 coil strands, probably 50-60% less bogging, than at 12 strands.

I tested the 24 coil strands at 1725 rpm.
Also, the gap from permanent magnet to core is about 1/8".
peace love light
See that data is worth it's weight in gold added to the present information
at 2800 rpm's. (960ft and your are almost at the null for such a low speed.

Very exciting to me. Of course the number of magnet poles matters. i
think the more magnets on a rotor the sooner the null will be reach at a low RPM. Good gap too, great work to advance this research.

Thane is running 3700rpm most of the time however has shown a few
instances of slight speed up (Null Point) at lower than 3600 rpm but he is
switching off the current yet still generating and motoring at the same
time.

For just a simple setup using rotor and coils shows us a lot to start with.

Maybe at strand 30? Complete null with slight speed up?

Keep us on the edge Sky.
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Old 04-28-2019, 02:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
A coil with 1 strand 2,400' long with a potential of 100v on it would have a capacity of 27,756. Three strands each 800' long in parallel with 100v on it would have 202,500 (7.3 times as much).


https://www.teslascientific.com/prod...ce-calculator/

But remember, according to the “experts” around here, none of this matters or is good for anything.
hey Turion

Wow on the difference of capacity. Or Capacitance? I'm not the sharpest
knife in the drawer on what the 7X figure can do to this. I wonder if you
might run Sky's figures of 24 stands of 40 ft each?

Forget the nay-sayers, they are oblivious. maybe I will try that calculator
myself.

NOTE: I could not calculate the coil using that calculator here is another
but not multifilar

Helical Coil Calculator
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  #11  
Old 04-28-2019, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Mikey,

The number of magnets on the rotor has everything to do with coil output but NOTHING to do with speed up under load.
My mistake. I am mixing up he 24 generator patent data mixed in. 2 pole
is 3600 rpm and 4 pole is 1750rpm and as conventional generators add
poles up to 24 poles the generator rpm's is way lower but has nothing to
do with speed up.

my mistake.
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Old 04-28-2019, 06:03 PM
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Hi all, up to 40 coil strands and just about lenz neutral at 1725-1950 rpm, barely perceptible slow down by ear when series coil shorted.
I don't want to go much beyond 2000 rpm, as you see the rotor I have.
Will connect the rest in series and see how she goes.
peace love light
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Old 04-28-2019, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
I made that mistake and gave out false information. So YOU probably got it from ME. My fAULT.
Naw, I never listen to you, you know that, all those long boring excerpts

Thx man, wide shoulders, just like a good teacher covering for his students.
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Old 04-28-2019, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWatcher View Post
Hi all, up to 40 coil strands and just about lenz neutral at 1725-1950 rpm, barely perceptible slow down by ear when series coil shorted.
I don't want to go much beyond 2000 rpm, as you see the rotor I have.
Will connect the rest in series and see how she goes.
peace love light
You must be careful yes. You could put up a barrier, temporary. The main
thing is keeping you in one piece.

Okay 2000 rmp's 40 strands X 40 ft long each, hummm..............

40 X 40 = 1600ft so for such a slow speed maybe your rotor is okay?

Your rotor is doing the job just fine for this test. Looks like your rotor
magnets are long so as the surfaces come close to the core material
on one end of the magnet it pulls away then come back again to the 1/8"
gap. Those are slight mechanical difficulties that will be easily remedied
with a little brainstorming next time you want to dream.

Not bad for a tape job setup, shows what we never knew for sure and
needed to get time to try. Made my day. Besides who wants a gold
plated rotor for a single test that is going in the pile anyway?

Dang i can't get over it, For such a slow speed you would normally need
about 2500ft of wire but with a million strands (feels like million) put in
series brings it way down. Good going chief, you just took the charge.
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Old 04-28-2019, 10:00 PM
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Hi all, finished testing the series connection with this 51 strand coil, yes it was 51 after all, when first labeling, I marked 2 strands with the same number.

So, unfortunately, at the 1950 rpm and maybe a little bit higher, it is just slightly bogging when shorted, increases around 10 milliamps or so with amp meter connected.
Guess I should have made it 60 strands.
I wonder if increasing the magnet to core gap might help give a lower rpm delay.
Mike, I notice you have quite a bit of core material, between your magnets and where the coil sits on the core in the videos you posted, that alone is probably helping create a delay.

On my coil/core, there is only a 1/4" of core sticking out from where the coil sits, the 1/4" high density board and then the 1/8" core gap.
I'm not sure how many rpm's this rotor can go, before being unsafe, any ideas.
peace love light
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Old 04-29-2019, 02:25 AM
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Are you using weak ceramic magnets?

I noticed with my strong neo's my speed up took longer or more strands
if at all, well noticeably only when I had a tight gap. Mine is 1/16" now.

The stronger magnets do help. Remember I asked you about your long
magnets taped on the circular shape? Guessing of course but educated.
Long block ceramics will not allow you to keep your gap consistent
throughout the entire surface. This arrangement will give an 1/8" gap on
each end of the magnet but in the center might be wider.

Am I right?
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Old 04-29-2019, 03:49 AM
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Here is what I am saying Sky

Even with my very very strong neo's (super strong) if my gap got to
wide the noticeable effect was missing. There is definitely a gap to
strength of magnet to core relationship that will pronounce the effect.

When I dropped back my gap to 3/16" the speed up effect was very tiny
even at 3000rpm's at 2890ft or 17 strands of 170foot lengths. The "C"
gives me 2 poles of interaction at the same time and a place for flux
relief but does not cause the effect nor does the core length change
the delay mechanically enough.

Maybe a 6" extension might do something but for now I will say no.
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Old 04-29-2019, 04:27 AM
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Turion,
as far as wire sizes,
I bought 57 pounds of #19 wire because of a mistype someone else did.
the experiment still failed like all the other reproductions
I suggest calculating out wire sizes, frequencies and what wire will deal with what on your own.
do all the engineering for yourself before you buy or build or buy anything
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Old 04-29-2019, 04:28 AM
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Hi mike, thanks for the replies.
The rotor has 1" diameter x 1/8" thick neos.
The 1/8" magnet to core gap is with the rotor stopped and flush, when turned, the edge of the magnet is about 1/16" gap.
I'm giving this some thought and looking at turions 'your basic coil' thread again.
peace love light
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Old 04-29-2019, 08:59 AM
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Okay Sky my mistake, I didn't realize they were neo's but you are
on the right track. You could always add a few more strands fairly easy
using the same method.

Run 9 more in the yard and lay those next to the others. My neo's have
a huge pull force at 1" long around 45-50 lbs they are 1/2" dia. like i said
even with all that force (which I needed) if I didn't get as close as possible
the effect was greatly reduced. So strong that at low speeds the rotor will
growl for all the torsion but as the rotor picked up rpm's much less
pounding. Lots of stress there. That's where my magic was.

It seems like the greater the pull the better the effect was for me. Maybe
you could go to 1\2" magnets or less and get a better response. I think
that big core need a little more flux. Course tape won't hold'em.

I'll bet bigger magnets would drop the number of strands for you.

Your magnet has 3X less pull force than mine but both of us have about
the same core size. Of course you know as you make a gap the force is
much reduced and in your case might be leaving you on the short end.

Still you are within 10ma from the null. That's better than everyone else
looking for the extra energy. Most won't even try.

Great exploration I'd say.For all practical purposes you are there.

I looked more closely at the details, you have a 3.75" dia rotor mine is 9" so
my magnets must travel much faster to get around the circle.

2*pie*r = circumference so 2*3.14 = 6.28 * 1.875 = 11.775" of travel with each
rotation. At 2000rpm's we can say 2000 X 11.775 = 23,550" per minute

We can also go to feet per second.

On the other hand a 9" dia where my magnets sit comes out 2*pie*r or
6.28 X 4.5 = 28.26" for each rotation and at 2000 rpm's comes to

2000 X 28.26 = 56,520" per minute but instead I am running 3000 rpm or

3000 X 28.26 = 84,780" per minute. Over 3X more distance is traveled

All of this plays a roll. Turion's dia is huge. My magnets are at 80mph

Your magnets are moving at 22 mph and is a safe speed for tape.



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Old 04-29-2019, 09:39 PM
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Hi mike, thanks for the helpful information.

I made the gap a little tighter on the magnet to core gap.
Also, I'm building a protective shield (dome) around the rotor using 1/2" high density board, to keep the water, oh I mean the rotor magnets from removing me from this realm.

Then I can feel better about increasing the rpm's to a higher level.
peace love light
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:52 PM
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Hi all, finished the protective shield.
Not feeling the greatest at the moment, when I feel a little better I will test this at higher rpm's.
peace love light

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Old 04-30-2019, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWatcher View Post
Hi all, finished the protective shield.
Not feeling the greatest at the moment, when I feel a little better I will test this at higher rpm's.
peace love light

Very good and greetings, you've been working very hard, well that you take your precautions, commented that an occasion with a bedini engine that was testing, the magnet went off, of luck was next to and not in front, I pass twice, it was very the speed of the bedini that one of the magnets gave off, thank God nothing serious happened,
thanks to all who contribute and guide, here and seen two users who know a lot and guide, BroMikey, Turion

and share their knowledge thanks to them and others.
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Old 05-01-2019, 10:34 PM
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Hi all, finished the protective shield.
Not feeling the greatest at the moment, when I feel a little better I will test this at higher rpm's.
peace love light

Good idea. We all had the croup here for weeks. These grain elevators
and stuff in the air (GMO bioweapons=Monsantos DNA mod's) just cough
till you barf.

Anyway

Great shield, I did that also as you can see in the video, Thane did it, only
one who didn't was Turion, he got shot with a magnet I think in the foot.
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Old 05-01-2019, 10:35 PM
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Hi all, Hi alexelectric, thanks for the kind words.
Yes, I'm thankful to bromikey and turion as well.
Ok, I've increased the rpm of the rotor with the safety barrier in place to around 2625 rpm's.
Still no lenz neutral or acceleratrion when series coil is shorted, with this particular setup.

Though again, when shorted, input amps are increasing very little, 10-20 milliamps.
So, I will have to give this some more thought, on what to do next.
peace love light
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Old 05-02-2019, 12:07 AM
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Hi all, I have something I'm going to try.
I'm going to extend the core out from where it is now, by an inch in length.
Will have to hammer out the old core pieces and make new ones of proper length.
Questions or comments welcome.
peace love light
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Old 05-02-2019, 01:50 AM
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Multifilar Coil Vs Tank Circuit

from what I understand, it seems the neutralization of lenz seems to be because of resonance?..
would the effect show on a tank circuit instead?..

frequency of the rotor can be determined by (rpm/60s)*number of magnets
and the frequency in the coil can be calculated via L and C.

say a rotor that can turn to 1800 rpm with 8 magnets would be 240hz
a matching coil and cap would be 4.7uF and 93mH coil.

Just a wild thought..
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Old 05-02-2019, 04:08 AM
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Yes I would say. My rotor has 20 magnets at 50lb pull each with
a 9"dia rotor where magnets did place which also is part of the
frequency.

Turion uses 6 magnets that are very very powerful. The dia escapes me
but around 12" which relates to a magnet speed in MPH much faster
than even my 9" rotor.

A good point might be that a 3.75" dia rotor might not be large enough
along side the weak magnets. Such thin magnets or 1/8" at gaps of 1/8"
may not provide enough flux to properly react with the larger cores.

Without a balance, drag may prevail.

In my case even with the big rotor using 20 magnets, I got my best
response when cogging at low speeds were tremendous. It became
very difficult at this point to get the rotor up to speed without damaging
the drive motor requiring me to resort to using a clutch.

The rotor magnets and core material must be sized to generate a
reasonable amount of output Vs input. When this is accomplished
drive input with increase substantial as compared to a free wheeling
rotor with no magnets.

For example a 50lb magnet 1" long, with an 1/8" may still exhibit a
40lb pull while an 1/8" long magnet running an 1/8th" gap may not
be capable of offering much flux.
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Old 05-02-2019, 02:08 PM
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Hi all, Hi ricards, thanks for the positive reply.

Hi bromikey, thank you also, you always have a positive, helpful reply to offer.
I am taking note of all of your suggestions, for potential use.

In the past, I did build larger rotors, with more powerful magnets, though I was using bolts as cores, I still observed interesting effects.
One thing I observed, when the bolt coil/core was facing the magnets with the coil closest to rotor, I could not get lenz neutral or speed up.
Though when I turned the coil/core around, which means the extended length of bolt core was facing the rotor magnets.
And the coil was a good distance away from the rotor magnets, then I could observe lenz neutral and even rotor speeding up.
This is why I want to try a longer core, to set the coil a distance away from the rotor magnets, while the core end is still very close to the rotor magnets.

I notice in your regenX coil thread, Barbosi brought this up and you posted tesla patents and other information related to the setting back of the coil.
I'm almost done painting the new, longer core pieces, so I'll post experiment results when I have them.
peace love light
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Old 05-02-2019, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWatcher View Post
Hi all, Hi ricards, thanks for the positive reply.

Hi bromikey, thank you also, you always have a positive, helpful reply to offer.
I am taking note of all of your suggestions, for potential use.

In the past, I did build larger rotors, with more powerful magnets, though I was using bolts as cores, I still observed interesting effects.
One thing I observed, when the bolt coil/core was facing the magnets with the coil closest to rotor, I could not get lenz neutral or speed up.
Though when I turned the coil/core around, which means the extended length of bolt core was facing the rotor magnets.
And the coil was a good distance away from the rotor magnets, then I could observe lenz neutral and even rotor speeding up.
This is why I want to try a longer core, to set the coil a distance away from the rotor magnets, while the core end is still very close to the rotor magnets.

I notice in your regenX coil thread, Barbosi brought this up and you posted tesla patents and other information related to the setting back of the coil.
I'm almost done painting the new, longer core pieces, so I'll post experiment results when I have them.
peace love light
SkyWatcher, what do you think, that you can reach, that is, what deceleration you will have in the engine as a goal, when the resonance is fulfilled.
what is your estimate
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