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  #211  
Old 06-10-2019, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWatcher View Post
Hi all, here's a video of the rotor running on 12 volts.
It should work ok, have to try it with magnets installed yet.
peace love light

https://youtu.be/KbOO4pOXEp8

Pretty decent is right and when you get the magnets on it will be just
as smooth if not better, course you can get any better. The thing ain't
even tied down and there is no vibration. Pretty sweet deal, oh and
thx for the pat on the back over my new bobbin.
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  #212  
Old 06-10-2019, 11:02 PM
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Hi SkyWatcher,

I make alot of things out of mdf like your rotor in the video.
Be very careful when you put magnets in it as there will be alot of stress on the mdf board and its only wood. I would put a couple of bricks between the rotor and yourself in case the rotor should fall apart. I have a rotor like yours that I have used for other experiments but I have only ever had it up to 1000 rpm. It is 200mm in diameter.

Mdf is very useful and easy to work with. I also print out a design like yourself to cut out mdf.
I will explain a good method I use to get it onto the mdf.

Get your piece of mdf that you want to cut out and another of roughly the same size to use as a pressure plate.
I use spray glue from a craft shop.
This is very important. Spray the mdf only, with the glue (not the drawing) applying an even coat. Allow to dry for a minute or two. then place on the drawing and just let it down evenly onto the glue/mdf.
Now get the other piece of mdf and place it on top of the paper and apply pressure evenly onto it to press the drawing onto the glue.
and that's it.

By doing it this way the paper doesn't stretched or get distorted in any way. It took a while to get this right, but it is the best method I have come up with so far.

Here is a link to something I made using this method some time ago - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kqN7ihsOyM

Hope this may come in useful.
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  #213  
Old 06-11-2019, 04:44 AM
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Hi bromikey, thanks for the positive words.
I put all the magnets in place and spun it up on the 12 volts and it was not too good.
So I shimmed, then had it fairly true and when i took the rotor off and put it back on, the rotor was out of true again.
It's useable, though at higher rpm's, It might put too much stress on the motor bearings.

So, I plan to make a new, simpler, radial rotor, without all the time consuming spacers.
The 1/2" deep magnet holes will be drilled into the periphery of the rotor, superglued in place and fiber tape reinforcement.
It might be a smaller diameter rotor this time, will have to draw it on cad and see how it works out.

Hi netica, thanks for the good information, will probably use those tips.
peace love light
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  #214  
Old 06-11-2019, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWatcher View Post
I put all the magnets in place and spun it up on the 12 volts and it
was not too good.

Remember that I cheated? I use HIGH SPEED SAW BLADES. Here is what
I know about randomly designed materials. machines randomly blow
out fibers and chip with varying amounts of glue, press it out heated.
They were never meant for high speeds. Such materials must be
balanced later. Wood is no better, this is why some portions of randomly
produced materials will be indestructible on one side and crack on the
other seemingly without cause.

On the other hand light weight board has it's place for mounting and
fixtures. Now take a piece of plastic, it is uniform throughout it's
entire mass. Lexan is so awesome, scientifically formulated to stop
bullets but every sq inch is exactly the same as the next just like
poured steel, aluminum and brass.

Another thought is that you can chuck up a 12" circle of Styrofoam
spinning it effortlessly without vibration until you start hanging
weights on it's outer perimeter you find just how precise it needs
to be.

I know all this so me cheated My first one was a 10" tablesaw
blade using the arbor from off of a table saw ordered from ebay
used at $20 measly bucks Think of it. I let everyone else
do the work for me. That is why I am looking at auto flywheels for
a possible future rotor. They are already balanced good to 10,000 rpm.

So you see, i feel your pain. But how else ya gonna learn?

You are an advanced builder way ahead of the curve, nothing stops you.
Stick with me, I won't let you go unchecked.

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Last edited by BroMikey; 06-11-2019 at 09:43 AM.
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  #215  
Old 06-12-2019, 01:23 AM
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Rotor pictured

Rotor design for small rotor. The magnets along the rim are inserted into a hole drilled into the rotor like spokes on a wheel. But not YET. LONG magnets add to the flux generated. A slot is cut into the rotor that can even go all the way through. Into this slot a magnet is inserted that is in attraction to the magnet inserted from the rim. They form a "T" shape with the slot magnet being the top bar of the "T". This magnet is epoxied in place. Now the magnets inserted from the rim are put in place. They are attracted to the magnet in the slot and will NOT come out. If you WANT to remove them, use a magnet that is bigger and stronger than the one you used to create the top of the T and with leverage, you can break that magnetic lock and pull the magnets out of the rotor. I have used this design for a long time and I know it works. A member of THIS forum is making some of these rotors right now for Bob French and I so that we can build the little Five coil unit we talked about. The rotor is printed on a 3D printer. I am NOT making them nor am I selling them. I am actually BUYING a couple because even though I have a printer, I don't have it set up and don't have the time. In fact I have TWO 3D printers. I also have a CNC machine I haven't had time to put together. Time is NOT my friend right now. The hole where the shaft goes has a place to inset a standard skateboard bearing on the top and on the bottom. This is a pretty THICK rotor just for stability. The idea is to have four generating coils with magnetic neutralization set up, and one motor coil. This was designed with the size bobbin we have been using in mind containing 24 strands of # 23 each 125 ft in length with a core of your choice. Eight sets of magnets on the rotor.
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Last edited by Turion; 06-12-2019 at 02:14 AM.
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  #216  
Old 06-12-2019, 01:33 AM
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Nice work, thanks for your
dedication and valuable time.
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  #217  
Old 06-12-2019, 03:54 AM
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Hi all, Hi bromikey, thanks for the helpful information and positive words as usual.
That's not cheating, that is being creative and trying not to reinvent the wheel.

Hi turion, thanks for sharing the nice rotor pic and information, I see it has the narrow magnets for the slower rpm effect, nice.

I was working on the simpler rotor today, I made it 8" diameter this time.
Yes, used mdf again and was able to balance it out well with a little lead weight.
Again, I used the hand jig saw to cut the rotor, which is not ideal.
I usually use a circle jig with a plunge router and that has always worked pretty well, just got lazy I guess.
Also, the rotor will have 10 magnets this time.
Next step is to bore the magnet holes in the radial edge a 1/2" deep.
Will then probably have to rebalance the rotor with the magnets in place.
peace love light
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  #218  
Old 06-13-2019, 03:33 AM
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Hi all, the new 8" diameter magnet rotor is coming along.

Almost done super gluing them, then will add fiber tape reinforcement around the periphery.

Will probably have to rebalance after that.
peace love light

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  #219  
Old 06-13-2019, 08:41 PM
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Nice big magnets, not my favorite design but that is okay for testing
if you don't get injured during 3000 rpm operation. Yes use some
bricks like short chimney all around the project, lead is to costly

I think the key issue (just guessing) with clear tape is that this design
makes it more trouble to get a tight gap and in the process some of
the tape and magnets will come into contact. You know what they say
about one weak link in a chain.

Since you are using such powerful magnets your plan was probably to
use a wide gap. Good idea. Lexan also works well for flying magnets.

Sand bags?

Great job balancing. I see many ways to balance, tiny
bearings when standing up the rotor vertically. Then there is the
horizontal balancing act like a magician holding up a plate in the
center with 1 finger.

Have a good day.


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  #220  
Old 06-13-2019, 11:07 PM
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SkyWatcher

Do you have space restrictions for your build?
John Bedini wrote the bigger the better= slower rotation.
If balanced it can run super fast and safely.
I had my now broke wheel generator running so fast It sang but it scared the Shiite out of me.
I ran it slow on 24 volts to charge the battery bank for my inverters to run my house.
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  #221  
Old 06-14-2019, 02:37 AM
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Hi bromikey, yes, that is a good idea, It will have protection around it for sure.
Though it should not need 3000 rpm to achieve lenz neutral and if 2300 rpm is not fast enough, well, I'll make a new coil then.

I finished the rotor and it is balanced pretty well, used lead from an old, large bullet that was found in a field.
Though had a little issue with wobble, a steel washer configuration solved that.

Hi pot head, yes I have space restrictions at the moment and I don't plan on ballistic speed with this rotor, though would like a slower rotating design, as long as it can get lenz neutral effect.

peace love light

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  #222  
Old 06-17-2019, 02:47 AM
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Hi all, the project is moving along, waiting for the paint to dry on the rest of the core pieces.
Though I will probably test the north-south magnet rotor as is, then probably make it an all north out magnet rotor after that, to use turions counter permanent magnet neutralizer method.
peace love light

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  #223  
Old 06-17-2019, 08:29 AM
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You can do both tests and should. "N" "N" "N" is one test.
Here is what i am looking for.

200ma @100v for 1 of the 3 channels on a single AUL coil. X 3= 50-60 watts and this is
with weak magnets and #23 wire. Magnetic cancellation as well.

24vdc input was and will be 2 amps at running speed. Go figure. Originally I run a
modified motor at 20vdc at 2 amps and got speed up with the huge 50lb magnets on
my 20 magnet 10" rotor, taking 5 amps for start up smoked my modified, redid the
winding and am now ready to try again.

Gonna run a standard scooter motor first which leaves me some head
room as before I needed a clutch to reach run RPM's, remember?

Yeah extra power to get her up to speed. Learned my lessen, gotta have
cancellation.

Now with the small rotor and weaker magnets it won't be a problem
to get up to cruising speed even without cancellation. Again both
tests are in order.
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  #224  
Old 06-17-2019, 08:42 PM
viomarmi22 viomarmi22 is offline
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I will build a generator with magnets placed in halbach array mode. I have already bought 40 pieces of magnets and I will still buy 40 pieces, the rotor will be external to the electric bicycle hub, so I can experiment with different types of stators. If there are any grammatical mistakes, I use google translate, I am Romanian and speak Italian only, so please excuse me!https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2-pc...27424c4ds056EX
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File Type: jpg 250mm_prototype_text__20881.jpg (36.8 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg 250mm_prototype_2_text__31648.jpg (45.7 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN5475_3.jpg (133.4 KB, 24 views)
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  #225  
Old 06-18-2019, 10:42 AM
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Nice work. Nice stater. Radial machines are good that they can present an endless stream of flux cutting copper, but harder to engineer , for low drag, than axial machines. Faraday's macine could present an endless steam of flux cutting copper , but had other issues. Please share how Hallback array works, for low drag.

cheers.
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Last edited by lotec; 06-18-2019 at 10:47 AM. Reason: to clarify
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  #226  
Old 06-19-2019, 02:22 AM
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Hi all, Hi bromikey, thanks for sharing the good information.
Yes, don't think my setup at the moment will be too much an issue, as it starts up fine, though with more core/coils, probably not with this motor.

Though with 4 core/coils, with the 10 magnet rotor, it might not be too bad.

As It rotated in the cad program and it showed that when a magnet set is ready to move away from the cores, another set of magnets would be pulling strong to help move those away from their respective cores.

Hi lotec, thanks for the positive words.

Been busy working on the workshop in shed, it was taking on water, think we fixed that problem and we made the work bench 24" deep for these type of projects.

Also had to screw the project board down to the workbench, as the core/coil holding structure was causing a little flex of that board, when the magnets passed, now it is better.

Then I also realized the one set screw in the arbor was not sufficient to keep the shaft centered and secure inside the arbor.

So I'm working on drilling and tapping 3 new set screws at equal points around the arbor.

That should do the trick, they are for 3/16" diameter bolts or set screws, which should give more stability and be more secure, especially with blue loctite added if needed.

Here's the new workbench and progress of arbor..
peace love light



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  #227  
Old 06-19-2019, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWatcher View Post
with 4 core/coils, with the 10 magnet rotor, it might not be too bad.

As It rotated in the cad program and it showed that when a magnet set is ready to move away from the cores, another set of magnets would be pulling strong to help move those away from their respective cores.
Yes that is worth a try, good thinking can't wait. If I had 4 cores I might
do that test as well, someday. 4 core correctly spaced would lower the
price way down.
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  #228  
Old 06-20-2019, 03:44 AM
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Hi bromikey, thanks for the reply and positve words.
Well it wouldn't be perfect, since just as 2 of the magnets, (180 degrees from each other, as seen in the photo), are needing to be pulled away from their cores.

The other 2 magnets which are 90 degrees or so from the other magnets, need a little more rotation to start pulling hard at their cores.

So it would be at least a 50% or more improvement, at neutralizing the magnet cogging issue, I think.
Actually, 6 core/coils might be an even better geometry, for reducing magnet cogging, I'll look at my cad program in a bit and check that.

Was working on the motor arbor again today.

Picked up a few, actual small allen set screws.

I tapped threads at both sides of shaft on the nut coupler.

Also had to shim the shaft with one layer of aluminum tape, (though not sure how the tape will hold up) that solved the centering and wobble issues, as did the set screws.

Then used some blue loctite on the set screw threads, as they came loose on first test run, with just the core in place.

Will test run it tomorrow for a bit and see if it can hold together or not, will use super glue on threads if need be.
peace love light
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Last edited by SkyWatcher; 06-20-2019 at 03:46 AM.
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  #229  
Old 06-20-2019, 03:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWatcher View Post
Hi bromikey, thanks for the reply and positve words.
Well it wouldn't be perfect, since just as 2 of the magnets, (180 degrees from each other, as seen in the photo), are needing to be pulled away from their cores.

Will test run it tomorrow for a bit and see if it can hold together or not, will use super glue on threads if need be.
peace love light

I feel your pain

From what I read if you have 8 hard magnets the best it to use either 7
cores or 9 cores and if it is maximized the best that can be achieved
is the equivalent of 1 magnet to 1 core cogging resistance. Less that
perfect means same as 2 core cogging to break the lock.

Still this is much better than all of them locking up on you all at once.

I get a big kick out of your progress, stay at it, you will be in pole
position sooner than you think. There are a bunch of guys who will
follow you.

NOTE: If you get time check out the SERIAL BRAIN 2 decodes we are
living in historic times.

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  #230  
Old 06-20-2019, 07:44 PM
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Hi bromikey, thanks for the encouraging words.
Yes, It's been tricky getting this homemade arbor to work well, I think I am onto it though now.
The slight wobble seen in the video, I'm sure that can be resolved as well.
The blue loctite seems to be working well though and with at least another core on the other side, that would balance things better and reduce vibrations.

Next step is to wind the already prepared, 26 strand coil, onto the core/coil bobbin.
Here is a video of it running at 12 volts, with just the core in place.
peace love light

https://youtu.be/8kjUei--LUU
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  #231  
Old 06-22-2019, 01:04 AM
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Hi all, an update on project.
I decided to try and get the small wobble out of the magnet rotor rotation, somehow.
So on examining further where the problem is, yet again, it is the arbor-shaft interface.

So my final effort to solve the motor arbor issue is this.
I have used full strength jb-weld, and globbed it onto the motor shaft.
Then used masking tape to protect motor bearings and then wrapped a masking tape former around the globbed on epoxy, so it will cure more uniformly.

When the epoxy fully cures by tomorrow, the motor will be powered on and a metal file will be used to machine the epoxied shaft to the correct diameter, to fit the nut coupler/motor arbor.

Wish me luck.
peace love light
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  #232  
Old 06-22-2019, 01:45 AM
bistander bistander is offline
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Simple request

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWatcher View Post
...
Here is a video of it running at 12 volts, with just the core in place. ...

https://youtu.be/8kjUei--LUU
Nice video SkyWatcher. Can you please measure volts and amperes with and without the core in place. RPM for both cases would be nice if you have a tach.

Thanks in advance,

bi

ps. Another interesting test would be to run for a while with the core and record the temperature.
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  #233  
Old 06-22-2019, 04:30 AM
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I watched your video.
You remind me of a younger me.
I havenít seen how your parts are matched, but if you recess the tighteners
and also use the threads all the way down to the rotor, maybe you will have stability?
I use one single pole for the build and two outer stable bearings.
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  #234  
Old Yesterday, 09:46 PM
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Hi all, thanks for the positive replies.

Decided to change the setup, since my homemade motor arbor is not working as well as hoped.
So, had this drill press collecting dust and some rust and decided to use it rotate the magnet rotor.
The rotor now stays true and rotates the magnet rotor almost perfectly.
Still need to think about how to mount it and the coil/core bobbins.
peace love light

https://youtu.be/uDQhnrIVfj4
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  #235  
Old Yesterday, 10:11 PM
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Nice setup. You can get those drill presses for not to much and
is a perfect pick for a fast test rig with variable speeds. Nice.

Now you can see the significance of having a rotor have it's own
shaft and bearings.
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  #236  
Old Yesterday, 10:18 PM
Quantum_well Quantum_well is online now
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Safety.

I think something like a full face motorcycle helmet with
polycarbonate visor would be in order.
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  #237  
Old Yesterday, 10:48 PM
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Sky, See attached. I have done this before, although not with a drill press. Tomorrow I will send you a picture of my drill press at my old house. It is awesome
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