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  #151  
Old 05-25-2019, 04:59 AM
alexelectric alexelectric is offline
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The machine I recommended (which I have also built and am putting back together at this time) is all N magnets out on the rotor. For EXACTLY the reason Bro Mikey talks about. When you are using a horizontal rotor with magnets on the rotor edge, when a magnet is aligned in attraction with a coil, the magnet directly across from it is aligned with an adjustable magnet on the stator. They cancel each other out. In a vertical rotor, that's magnets on the face of the rotor instead of the edge (so it can have a coil on each side of the rotor) wen the magnet is aligned with the two coils, the magnet opposite it on the rotor is aligned BETWEEN two adjustable magnets that match the face of the magnet aligned to them in repulsion. It will not put out as much as my big machine because it is only 10 coil instead of 12 and does not have as many magnets on the rotor, nor are they as thick. But when I get it back up and running it will STILL prove my point. I know some people are going to whine because it doesn’t put out 2,000 watts, but let them. It is also WAY less expensive to build than my big machine for a number of reasons. Size, number of magnets, etc. So it is THIS machine I have chosen to share for replication.

My BIG machine has N/S magnets on the rotors and 12 coils. But the rotor is larger in diameter by 3 inches and has a second set of magnets out closer to the rim. Each time one of the primary magnets centers between two coils in attraction to both, these secondary magnets center between two magnets on the stator in repulsion. The N side of the magnet is aligned with an N magnet on the stator and the S side of the magnet is aligned with an S magnet on the stator. The stator magnets are adjustable on the big machine just like on the small machine, but I made MISTAKES building the big machine that I corrected when I built the smaller one. The big machine used square magnets that rode in square plastic tubing and the little magnet holder that was adjusted in and out was complex and did not work well. I went to round magnets in pvc pipe for the small machine and that eliminated the magnet holder complexity. Live and learn. It was also CHEAPER, which is always good.

At speed I see no difference in INDIVIDUAL coil output between the two machines, but the number of magnets on the rotor makes a difference as does the thickness of the rotor magnets. One just has more coils and stronger magnets. It USED to have weaker magnets and that is when I compared the output of the coils. Right now, the bigger machine definitely gets MORE out of the coils.

Which brings me to another thought. At SOME point the core is absorbing all the flux it can accept, so the coil will put out NO MORE electricity no matter HOW big or thick the magnets are. I don't know what that point IS.

as a side note: I have an entire box that is probably 18 inches square built out of 1 x 6's holding all of the different rotors I have tried on these machines to get the one I believe outputs the most for the situation. They each have a piece of 3/4 plywood between them so that I can get them apart because the all want to stick together. Some of them are only 1/4 inch thick with a single magnet pressed in, and some have magnets pressed in from both sides. Some are missing some of the magnets because they got pulled out for the NEXT rotor. I would be happy to send ANYONE one of my old rotors so they can experiment if they are willing to pay the cost of shipping up front. I am really tired of people promising me they would pay for shipping and then they get what I sent them for FREE and never paid my shipping costs. I can't tell you HOW many times that has happened, and I don't mind giving stuff away for free or I wouldn't OFFER it, but it is the principal of the thing when people make promises they don't keep.
greetings friends we can communicate by mail to see the cost of shipping, I'm interested in your proposal and thanks
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  #152  
Old 05-25-2019, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by SkyWatcher View Post
the shaft hole is probably less critical, though will be done.
You are going to be surprised to see how important it is to do that.

The point made by a pencil lead is as wide as 5 thousandth and it is
so easy to be off 10-20 thousands. What I like to do is to do the rough
cut circle then after I am sure the dot in the center is close I drill it.

After that I drill a bigger hole to put my shaft and hub into. Then into the
drill press to check for roundness WITH a pencil or scribe. Even drawing
with a compass after the hole the size of the shaft is drilled requires
a spacer to do the drawing on the outer edge.

I instead use a small ruler size board drilling a shaft hole in one end and
a 1/16" hole on the other end where I want to make my mark. This is
much more accurate than a compass. It is a way to strike a circular
line. I use 3 holes to make circles about 1/8" apart going inward
so I have something to visualize. Its a homemade compass that rotates
right off the shaft. Then strike a line right on the edge (drill tiny holes)
where you THINK the circle is perfect. Boing boing it's always off a tiny.

You are welcome, my expertise (on a good day) is mechanical schemes

3000rpm will be no trouble at all. Smooth a silk. The magnet holes are
not as critical due to the weight of each being so close to the next (I hope)

Unless it is out by 1/8" then I have been known to move the center hole
and shim

https://etc.usf.edu/clipart/77300/77340/77340_circle_crve_md.gif
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  #153  
Old 05-25-2019, 11:52 PM
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Hi bromikey, thanks for the helpful information.

Though as I said previously, I used a cad print out and taped that to the wood.

Then used a sharp metal punch at the crosshair marks that are printed, through the paper and into the wood as my pre-pilot hole.

Then used fostner drill bits for all the holes, as they have a nice central point on those bits.

It should be very close, if any issues, I'm sure they can be worked out as you are saying.
peace love light
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  #154  
Old 05-26-2019, 01:17 AM
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Sounds good to me, never tried that one so let me know.
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  #155  
Old 05-27-2019, 06:53 PM
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Hi all, finished securing all the magnet spacers in the rotor.
peace love light

Edit: Also, I chucked it in a drill and secured a metal file to the work bench. Then spun it up on the file and was able to get the rotor rounded fairly well, seems very true with regard to rotor edge.

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  #156  
Old 05-27-2019, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by SkyWatcher View Post
Hi all, finished securing all the magnet spacers in the rotor.
peace love light

I just saw a guy on youtube show a rotor made of this material
explode and shatter 3-4 magnets on one end came off due to these
light weight press boards weaknesses.

I can't remember the letters designated for his board and brand.
Your magnets are much lighter than his was. Glad you got a shield.

The guy I saw in the video did not have a shield so I never heard what
the magnets actually hit you know like a lamp or a window. No
children allowed.

Standing a magnet up on it's edge like a silver dollar to put glue on that
tiny surface area is not as good as laying a drum on it's side to put glue
on the huge amount of area. Same pull force just more gluing area and
not just gluing are but also the area where force thru centrifugal that
will hold the magnet in place.

You need not reply. This is only a repeat of an old post pointing out what
no one else has stated because up until now only coin geometry magnets
have been suggested since they only cost 20 cents a piece while the drum
magnets are way more expensive coming in at $1.99





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  #157  
Old 05-28-2019, 01:54 PM
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Oldie but goodie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs9k-iMjjsE

The first
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  #158  
Old 05-28-2019, 09:07 PM
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Hi all, thanks for sharing bromikey.
Hi turion, thanks for the video link, yes I've seen that before, good video.

I've built the multistrand coil maker setup and made a first strand of 130 feet of 24awg. magnet wire.
Will then use that strand to wind each further, consecutive strand together.

Not sure my coil bobbin will fit 24 strands, will see how it goes, can always make the bobbin wider.
peace love light

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  #159  
Old 05-28-2019, 09:21 PM
alexelectric alexelectric is offline
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Originally Posted by SkyWatcher View Post
Hi all, thanks for sharing bromikey.
Hi turion, thanks for the video link, yes I've seen that before, good video.

I've built the multistrand coil maker setup and made a first strand of 130 feet of 24awg. magnet wire.
Will then use that strand to wind each further, consecutive strand together.

Not sure my coil bobbin will fit 24 strands, will see how it goes, can always make the bobbin wider.
peace love light

good information of your advances, a question that the wire strands are not wrapped at the same time in parallel, and then connected in series, can comment on those who know to guide me.
thanks and congratulations, well-deserved effort for your contributions
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  #160  
Old 05-28-2019, 09:42 PM
alexelectric alexelectric is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post

342/5000
the videos of
MrAnguswangus
They had a whole series of consecutive projects and tests, they are interesting as it went with different configurations,
but has time that has not been updated
what happened
someone knows
or have a new channel
I thank MrAnguswangus for his videos, which guided us to better understand the generation of energy
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  #161  
Old 05-29-2019, 01:15 AM
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Hi all, Hi alexelectric, all strands will be wound parallel to each other, I'm just using a winding method of, one at a time, which is a slow way for the moment.

Meaning, I place the measured out 125 feet spool of wire on top of other spool, then wind the top and bottom together and we now have a 2 strand coil.

Then, place that 2 strand spool on top and wind top and bottom together, onto another empty spool and we now have a 3 strand coil spool.
peace love light
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  #162  
Old 05-29-2019, 02:35 AM
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Thumbs up

ok
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  #163  
Old 05-29-2019, 03:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWatcher View Post
Hi all

Not sure my coil bobbin will fit 24 strands,
ANSWER

http://flyer.thenetteam.net/3batterygen/spoolsize1.jpg
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  #164  
Old 05-30-2019, 03:23 AM
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Hi all, Hi bromikey, thanks for the helpful information.

Been working out the bugs of my coil maker, it's going good though, just takes more time this way.
I may just go to 12 strands at the 125 feet length per strand.

Then once I get everything together and running, we can see how it goes and if it needs more strands, I can always add them with this coil making method I'm using.

peace love light
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  #165  
Old 05-30-2019, 05:46 AM
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Sky,
You would want 24 strands a 125 ft per strand (recommended) or 12 strands at 250 ft per strand or 3 strands at 1000 feet per strand. You will need to fill that bobbin up to get what you want. I have probably 6 coils sitting on my bench that are ALL supposed to be 3 strands at 1000 feet per strand. When you measure the ohms of the coil they only differ by .2 ohms, yet the ones with 5.5 ohms will NOT speed up under load where the one with 5.6 ohms WILL at 2800 rpm with my rotor, and so will then with 5.7 ohms. The devil is in the details. I have learned a lot of crap about this the hard way, and I HATE winding coils.
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  #166  
Old 05-30-2019, 05:50 AM
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I have not got that far to understand that the same number of feet
comes out to a higher ohm measurement but maybe you don't mean
that.

So 24 strands conneted in series does not have the same ohms as 3 strands
connected in series of the same number of feet?
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  #167  
Old 05-30-2019, 06:13 AM
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if it matters, when you look at the math and what matters the most,
as far as coils,
it is the numbers of turns that count,
not number of feet, not the resistance
resistance matters a bit, but only in how many amps you push through it.
so, to sum up, turns and amps matter, and how close the turns are to each other matters third
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  #168  
Old 05-30-2019, 07:48 AM
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Coils

All six of the coils I wound were SUPPOSED to be three strands of 1000 feet each, but chances are they are NOT. Or if they are the same, perhaps the ones that work have the strands wound tighter so there are more turns on the bobbin, or the wire is closer together. There are lots of possible variables, and so few people building coils and testing. One thing I do know. You can get more turns on a coil with a longer piece of wire, so in a sense, length of wire DOES matter as it impacts the number of turns.

spacecase0,
You forgot one important point. Number os strands matters too. Because wires in parallel connected in series increase capacitance. With 3,000 feet of of a single wire wrapped on a coil you will not get the same results as with 24 strands in parallel connected in series. The frequency (rpm of the rotor) at which the coil speeds up under load will be much different.
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  #169  
Old 05-30-2019, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by SkyWatcher View Post
Hi all, Hi bromikey, thanks for the helpful information.

Been working out the bugs of my coil maker, it's going good though, just takes more time this way.
I may just go to 12 strands at the 125 feet length per strand.

Then once I get everything together and running, we can see how it goes and if it needs more strands, I can always add them with this coil making method I'm using.

peace love light

I do that all the time, get going on a build then stop to work on tools
So your last coil was 2000 ft and 12 X 125 ft = 1500? maybe not enough
but remember what Turion is always talking 2800 rpm and 3 channels
of 1000 feet each. Okay? So if you are targeting a slower speed and the
bobbin just won't hold 3000 ft probably should not go below the number
of feet the first one you made has and still it is 1 channel. That's fine I say
because your rotor is little so the speed of the magnets are slower.

You are improving your skills all of the way around. I don't see why you
shouldn't to able to reach the null point easier with the geometry that
gets tighter tolerances. Like I said 3/16' gap did not do much even with
strong magnets.

Didn't you say 51 strands 40 feet long? And you reached the null? Right?
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  #170  
Old 05-30-2019, 12:51 PM
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Coil design

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
... When you measure the ohms of the coil they only differ by .2 ohms, yet the ones with 5.5 ohms will NOT speed up under load where the one with 5.6 ohms WILL at 2800 rpm with my rotor, and so will then with 5.7 ohms. The devil is in the details. I have learned a lot of crap about this the hard way, and I HATE winding coils.
A percent or two resistance could be caused by difference in winding tension which can actually stretch small gauge copper wire reducing its diameter increasing its resistance.

Also, temperature has a large influence on copper resistivity. Variation in ambient from morning to afternoon can easily account for several percent change in resistance.

A coil's resistance will often be 30 to 40% higher at temperature associated with rated load operation versus cold ambient room temperature. All this fuss adjusting coil parameters at room temperature won't apply at working conditions, will it?

While I'm on the subject, I read over some of N. Tesla's work on bifilar coils. But I could not easily find instance where he addressed multi-filar, meaning more than the two conductors side-by-side in the coil. Can anybody provide a reference for me?

Regards,

bi
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  #171  
Old 05-30-2019, 04:14 PM
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Tesla

Tesla Patent 512,340

The basis for everything I have done with these coils I wind. Also predates Thane Heins by a year or two, and is in the public domain. Free for everyone who understands what it means and how to apply it to BOTH motors and generators. Which I have done.
Attached Images
File Type: png Tesla Statement.png (178.1 KB, 33 views)
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  #172  
Old 05-30-2019, 04:34 PM
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Hi all, Hi turion, thanks for the guidance, maybe I will do 24 then.
If the coil becomes too much, I will just make a bigger coil former.

Hi bromikey, thanks for engouraging words, yes, I will be testing that 51 strand - 30awg. coil also with this setup.

I have 3 strands wound so far, had some wire tangle issues I needed to work out, steady as she goes.
peace love light
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  #173  
Old 05-30-2019, 05:05 PM
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Coils

Just a little video to try to help explain for those who still do not understand.

In the video I forgot to mention that the electromagnet formed by the coil is a magnetic field in opposition to the approaching magnet. It can be created any time from the instant the field of the magnet begins to affect the core of the coil to AFTER the rotor magnet has gone PAST the core of the coil, depending on the speed of the rotor, because the rate at which the iron core of the coil can absorb magnetic flux is a constant (for our purposes anyway), while the speed of the rotor is a variable.
https://youtu.be/eiJqLo0XY84
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  #174  
Old 05-30-2019, 05:15 PM
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Bifilar coils

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Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Tesla Patent 512,340

The basis for everything I have done with these coils I wind. Also predates Thane Heins by a year or two, and is in the public domain. Free for everyone who understands what it means and how to apply it to BOTH motors and generators. Which I have done.


Yes Turion, l read that before. He speaks of only bifilar winding, and the standard monofilar. He says nothing about, 3, 4, 5, ... multi beyond 2, the bifilar. My question is: where, or why use multi, or more than 2, bifilar? It does not appear N. Tesla teaches that.

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bi
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  #175  
Old 05-30-2019, 05:25 PM
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Tesla

Tesla’s patent says when two wires are in parallel and you connect the end of one to the beginning of the next the capacitance in the coil increases because of the relationship between the turns. I thought it only LOGICAL to see if adding more strands in parallel had INCREASED capacitance effect. Turns out it does. Wind a coil with 24 strands and start connecting them in different combinations.
2 strands of 12 in series will get you speed up under load at a reduced speed of the rotor from 12 strands of two in series. Same amount of wire, same number of turns. Just a difference in capacitance because of how the wires are connected. I should point out that 12 strands of two in series will NOT speed up under load without an increase in rotor rpm.
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  #176  
Old 05-30-2019, 05:38 PM
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Multifilar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Teslaís patent says when two wires are in parallel and you connect the end of one to the beginning of the next the capacitance in the coil increases because of the relationship between the turns. I thought it only LOGICAL to see if adding more strands in parallel had INCREASED capacitance effect. Turns out it does. Wind a coil with 24 strands and start connecting them in different combinations.
2 strands of 12 in series will get you speed up under load at a reduced speed of the rotor from 12 strands of two in series. Same amount of wire, same number of turns. Just a difference in capacitance because of how the wires are connected.
Clues in his quote from the patent which you posted and from known physics of capacitance, going "multi", more than 2 which is bifilar, is counterproductive, or in other words, yields less energy storage in capacitance than a bifilar coil of equivalent turns and resistance.

Regards,

bi
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  #177  
Old 05-30-2019, 06:56 PM
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Coils

Then build them your way. I donít care.
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  #178  
Old 05-30-2019, 07:07 PM
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Who cares?

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Then build them your way. I donít care.
Maybe the folks building to your instructions care.
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  #179  
Old 05-30-2019, 07:27 PM
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2 strands of 12 and 12 strands of 2? What is that?

@bi
duh
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  #180  
Old 05-30-2019, 07:38 PM
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Huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
...
2 strands of 12 in series will get you speed up under load at a reduced speed of the rotor from 12 strands of two in series. ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post
2 strands of 12 and 12 strands of 2? What is that?

@bi
duh
What is it? .... Support of my contention, isn't it? How do you read it? @BM
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