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  #61  
Old 05-07-2019, 04:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWatcher View Post


I decided to try and use a 10 ohm - 10 watt resistor I had here.
And with rpms between 1950 rpm and 2325 rpm, I was getting
audible speed up with my ears and the amp meter dropping
in amperage.

..........It did not need all 51 strands to cause speed up either,
I placed the load between 51 and 15th series strand and was still
getting speed up.


Edit: I just checked with 10 ohm resistor load again, I can hear slight slow down at 15 strands.
So with that, we know this coil needs more than 15 strands at 2325 rpm.

peace love light
Keep flirting with it and you will find the right combo. I knew you could do it.

Sounds like around 35 strands you have struck a nerve.

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  #62  
Old 05-07-2019, 07:39 PM
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Hi bromikey, thanks, not sure it could have been done without the 1" core extension though, which I think added some phase delay.

I tried a 12 volt tractor battery as load with full wave bridge off coil, using all 51 strands
and I was able to get lenz neutral at around 2550 rpm.
If I used #1 to #15 strand, rotor would slow down, so battery load probably needs 30-51 strands and a little more rpm.

Seems obvious, the load type matters, though I would have thought the 12 volt battery, being so low in resistance, would not be much different than the 10 ohm resistor.
Maybe because it already has a 12 volt potential, that is causing the difference or the diodes resistance and causing the phase delay to be shorter, thus the need for more rpm and coil strands.
peace love light
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  #63  
Old 05-07-2019, 09:59 PM
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I would have told you about the loading but it is better you find out
some things on your own. Like Turion just mentioned more magnets
generator more and I have 20 so this allowed me more power
to light up bulbs. You do not have 20 magnets. I have 4200ft of wire
on my "C" core, you do not have a "C" core or 4200ft of wire.

I am running sometimes over 3000 rpm's, not you. You are sometimes
at 1900rpm's, that is where I would like to see results. Down lower.
You could have 6" extension on any standard coil and you would not
get to where you are now.

What you have there that interests me is 51 strands at 40ft long
which seems to allow for speed up sooner. My strands for uncontrollable
speed up peaked at 17 using 3000rpm's or more and are 170ft each
strand or 17X170=2890ft of wire.

Turion is using 250 ft per strand + 800ft long I believe, wanto got speed
up at 2800 rpm's also using shorter strands than Turion.

What is interesting about your setup is that speed up has seem to
come at a lower RPM due to shorter strands using more of them(51)

The kicker will be when you connect all 51 strands in series and begin
slowing down the rotor to see what the very slowest RPM is that speed
up under load will still occur.

If this be true, that speed up will come at a lower RPM the next person
might us 100 strands at 20ft per strand. Who knows maybe 1000rpm's
will do the same job using the right coil.
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  #64  
Old 05-07-2019, 11:27 PM
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Hi bromikey, thanks for sharing that.
Ok, I see what you are saying and asking of me.
I will test to see how low the rpm's can go with 51 strands, a 10 ohm resistor load and a couple other load resistances.

peace love light

Edit: Ok, with 10 ohm resistor load, at 51 strands of 30awg., lenz neutral is around 1500 rpm, little lenz speed up at around 1800 rpm.
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  #65  
Old 05-08-2019, 12:40 AM
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Coils

When my coil was 3 strands 800-100 feet long of #23 I got SUUL at 2800 rpm. When I went to 12 strands 250 feet long of #23 I got SUUL at 1800 rpm and it MIGHT have been lower. I wasn't testing for that so I don't know for sure. Same exact rotor.
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  #66  
Old 05-08-2019, 01:19 AM
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Hi turion, thanks for sharing that information, which I'm sure is a re-post.

I have another coil from previous experiments, it's a 12 strand - 24awg. magnet wire coil.
I measured ohms of single strand and calculated about 110 feet per strand.

Not sure if that coil is worth experimenting with or just making another coil of at least 12 strand 24 awg., with longer length strands.

I would like more usable power, plus, I do plan to build a bigger rotor with bigger magnets at some point in near future.
peace love light
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  #67  
Old 05-08-2019, 03:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
When I went to 12 strands 250 feet long of
#23 I got SUUL at 1800 rpm
At 1800 rpm's your 12"
rotor is carrying your magnets around at 63mph



Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWatcher View Post
....at 51 strands of 30awg., lenz
neutral is around 1500 rpm....................
Your magnets are traveling
16mph on that tiny rotor. 4X slower than 63MPH so maybe that short
strand coil with 12" rotor will speed up at 500rpms??
or 700RPM's see what I mean? Or 1500/4=350rpm??????????????

Slow mean less power generation so use a 96 magnet rotor

Conclusion:

Rotor dia relates to frequency based on RPM's. On a scope we read
time in micro second or milliseconds and can be converted to other
speed measurements. I went to MPH to give us a term easy to grasp.
Also to warn of the dangers of flying projectiles.

Typically Turions rotor magnet travels at 98mph at 2800rpm's



.................................................. .......
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  #68  
Old 05-08-2019, 04:03 AM
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Hi bromikey, yes, that is interesting.
Only downside, not sure how much juice we can get from these 30 awg. strands.

Maybe if more separate coil/cores are added and placed in parallel for more current, that could work.

Here's an interesting quote from Thane, yes I've been rummaging around the threads at both sites.

I can hear the sound also, just before speed up, wasn't sure what it was, now I know.
peace love light


Quote:
THE FINAL AND MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU WANT TO LOOK FOR IN YOUR REPLICATIONS IS THE SOUND THE HV COIL DISCHARGING MAGNETIC FIELD MAKES WHEN IT HITS I_RON'S ROTOR.
I_RON'S ROTOR OPENNED MANY NEW DOORS BUT THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT.
IF YOU GET THINGS RIGHT - YOU WILL ACTUALLY HEAR THE MAGNETIC FIELD PINGING OFF THE ROTOR WHEN THE HV COIL IS ENGAGED - JUST BEFORE ACCELERATION HAPPENS. (DON'T TAKE MY WORD FOR IT SEND GOTOLUC A PM AND HE WILL CONFIRM THIS). IT SCARED THE CRAP OUT OF ME THE FIRST TIME I HEARD IT.
WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?
AS I HAVE SAID THE HV COIL IS ACTUALLY A CAPACITOR UNDER THE CORRECT CONDITIONS.
A CAPACITOR DISCHAGES INSTANTLY BUT ONLY AT TDC.
SO THE SOUND OF FLUX HITTING THE ROTOR IS THE CAPACITOR STORING ENERGY AND THEN RELEASING IT ALL AT ONCE. - YOU WON'T GET THIS SOUND WITH A TYPICAL COIL THAT IS ACTING AS AN INDUCTOR PRODUCING AND RELEASING A "GRADUAL" MAGNETIC FIELD.
AND YOU WON'T GET THIS SOUND IF THE CORES "DISAPPEAR" MAGNETICALLY WHEN ENGAGED
YOU WON'T GET THIS SOUND IF THE MOTOR IS CAUSING ACCELERATION - END OF STORY.
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  #69  
Old 05-08-2019, 05:08 AM
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Coil

The standard coil bobbin I am using holds 3,000 feet of #23 when FULL. That gives me about 130 volts at 1.5 amps per coil with my rotor running at 2800 rpm. Now the only way to get more production with THAT coil is with a different rotor that has MORE magnets or THICKER or LARGER magnets and/or running at a higher rpm. Of course a LARGER coil with more wire will produce more power and research into how thick or how big a magnet is needed to fully "charge" a specific sized core is needed. The magnets I am using my be way overkill for my coils. I don't know. I'll know when I see it on my bench.

It would be pretty awesome if a bunch of folks were running the same sized rotor with the same size and number of magnets on a razor scooter motor like the one in the attached picture. And using 3 of the same sized coils. Then we could start experimenting with different numbers, sizes and thicknesses of magnets until we had what is BEST.

Attached is a picture of the little rotor I am using now 1" x 1" x 3/4" magnets on the rotor. Eight of them.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0469.jpg (239.3 KB, 38 views)
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  #70  
Old 05-08-2019, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWatcher View Post

quote from Thane, yes I've been rummaging around the threads at
both sites.

I can hear the sound also, just before speed up, wasn't sure what it
was, now I know.
Of course Thane takes the time to see who is working on this Tesla coil
patent for lenz free electromagnets. Thane instigated some of this
work after he found out for himself years ago. His thrill is to see others
succeed.

However LUC is not about helping with these confirmations but I guess
he hasn't figured that one out yet. On the surface Luc comes on as
an engineer level student who is honestly looking for the goods, nope.

On bigger wire that produces more generated power Turion has led the
way publicly holding back nothing and giving himself to teaching this
subject for years.

Thanes quote is nothing more than a validation for Thanes work and only
breaks the ice for some college boys who won't agree. Just another proof
that Thane is right. Of course he is.

However we need to work toward the practical aspects and the processes
leading up to that. Only Turion has done that, the rest are out for money
so many secrets are kept. Only the select few inside get the goodies
and most of them don't have the time to follow thru.

It is a big mistake. We have many examples of people who found secrets
only to have them die with the finder. N.Tesla did not do that.

We have everything we need right here.

...........................................
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  #71  
Old 05-08-2019, 04:02 PM
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Hi turion, thanks for sharing.
So you're using the 12 strand - 250 feet per strand coils, with some kind of multiple thin rods as core.
Those are monster coils.
Did you make the plastic coil bobbins, or are they bought pre-made from something, what dimensions of coil bobbin.
Also, what dimensions of rotor and which version razor motor is that.

Hi bromikey, of course that quote is from awhile ago, so I would hope Thane is on to luc.
All I can say is something you already know, we apparently are surrounded by a whole lot of soulless ones in this particular realm and they beat to a different drummer, not the one creator source, so a puppet in this matrix realm is what they are.
They, the soulless ones have many veils over their minds, whereas we do not, apparently.
If this were not the case, you or I or turion, etc., would not have the freewill to even think this tech is possible and would be programmed to debunk it in some way.
Yes, this is all spiritual, if it were not, all these kinds of tech would be already in use by everyone, as they once were in the recent past.
I wouldn't say it's a big mistake, that's how things roll in this place, in a different kind of realm, all those inventors would never have been programmed to behave as they have, they would have selflessly given the knowledge of such (GAME) changing tech for free, so people can build it and share it, just as Thane, turion, etc. have done to one degree or another.
I'm going to focus on building a more practical coil, out of 24awg. wire, just need to figure out how I'm going to measure out each strand and then be able to wind them together.
peace love light
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  #72  
Old 05-08-2019, 04:46 PM
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Measuring wire indoors

If you want a simple, inexpensive means of measuring long lengths of wire indoors, get yourself a bicycle wheel and remove the tire. Now you have a nice round circle that has sides on it and resembles a U. Line the bottom of the U with a strip of old inner tube or some other non slip material. Mark a CLEAR starting point and increments all around the wheel for accurate measurement. Each time the wheel makes one complete rotation you will know how much wire has come off the other side. Put one or two wraps of wire around the wheel and attach the end of the wire to your coil bobbin. As long as your supply bobbin can turn, the wheel can turn, and you can spin the bobbin with your drill, you are good to go. Now spin your bobbin with a drill and count the revolutions of the wheel. If you can do the math you will have an accurate measure of how much wire went on your bobbin.

This is the method I used to use. I have a better method, but it is more expensive. Probably costs about $40 to put together. The method I just detailed can be made from junk.

Dave
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  #73  
Old 05-08-2019, 05:14 PM
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Hi turion, thanks for the helpful tips.
I found this video on utube, I think it may be even easier and for anyone reading this thread.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdZETeUMRP8

Think I will try this method, since I don't have a large, continuous roll of wire at the moment, I have to scavenge what I have, off of many other coil experiements from the past.

Do you think I should make the coil as you have designed yours, meaning 12 strands at 250 feet per strand.

peace love light
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  #74  
Old 05-08-2019, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWatcher View Post

I wouldn't say it's a big mistake.....................
Men are selfish and hog everything to themselves, first mistake
second mistake is waiting til later by that time we will have gone
completely around them in this race to understand.

I don't hold it against people for trying to make money, besides not
everyone is that fond of the pigeons. The docile yuppies will never
get anywhere on this stuff as the schools have sucked the life out of
them keeping them from trying.

Third mistake "whats the use?"

Only the SOB'S take this challenge by force. Watch out for the tidal
wave of mindless dweeve's and their endless corrections. Seems they
only get off on self validation, mistake #4 and the list goes on forever.

Keep piercing the blackness and emerge unscathed in this Zombie
apocalypse nightmare as always.

From here it is all up to you how much money you want to spend. I
think a big machine is several thousand just for the wire, spools, cores
after that all you need it bearings and a magnet rotor. Machining costs
are 50 dollars an hour or better.

If you go with a medium size (Like me) try to do what Thane did. His
rotor has a large dia with many magnets, that will get speed up sooner
than those 3-4" wheels.

Plastic or metal rotors, magnets must be shielded to isolate them from
the next one on the wheel. Most use plastic because the don't shield.
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  #75  
Old 05-08-2019, 08:15 PM
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The coil bobbins I bought are here
Injection Molded Plastic Spools and Reels | Nortic Inc.

On the chart at the bottom of the page, look all the way down the far left column until you get to the one that says 3 1/2 x 3. That is the one I am using. As you will see they come 245 to a case, and I have used all but a few from my SECOND case. Which means I have wound a LOT of coils and gone through a LOT of bobbins and wire. I'm not sure they will sell smaller lots, but they might. I guess it would depend on how bad they want your business.

Just a note... I am going with SQUARE coils on future builds. Round coils can be rotated by the constant passing of the magnets, pulling the wires loose, unless they are REALLY secured in place, especially at high rpm.
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Old 05-08-2019, 09:46 PM
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Hi bromikey, soulless apocalypse nightmare is more accurate and I can't wait for the unveiling.
I'll probably go with the medium size device with many magnets.
And I think I will start building the rotor first and pick a motor, because I want to test this 12 strand 24awg. coil, that has 110 feet per strand, just to see how that does.
If it does nothing at reasonable rpm's, then I work on new coils.
Thanks turion, for the information.
peace love light
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:06 PM
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Process

Remember, this is a PROCESS and you have to take the steps in order.
First comes turning a rotor past coils to figure out how to get a speed up under load coil.

Once you HAVE that and know what you are doing, run one such coil as amp back emf motor with a couple generator coils.

Finally, run ALL your coils as motor/ generator coils.

Fun times.
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Old 05-09-2019, 12:01 AM
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Hi turion, thanks for the tips as usual.
Are you doing that, running the multistrand coils as motor coils also.

For coil testing purposes,
I have a drill press motor rated at I think 1750 rpm, so that is probably not good enough rpm.
I also have a MY6812B scooter motor, rated at 24 volt - 100 watt at 2300 rpm, that might work, maybe the voltage can be pushed a little if need be, to get a few more rpm's.

Also, I still have quite a few of those 1" by 1/8" neos that can be stacked.
Would recessing those into a radial rotor and super gluing in place, similar to your recent pic turion of the plastic rotor, would the magnets hold in place do you think at 2300 rpm or greater.

It will probably be a medium density fiberboard rotor.
peace love light
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Old 05-09-2019, 12:52 AM
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Motor coil

I HAVE run this kind of coil as a motor coil. No self induction.

I am turning my rotor with a razor scooter motor until I can get all the results recorded. Then it is my intention to remove the motor and see if I can get it up to the proper speed with a single coil used as a motor coil.

Rotors with magnets are just flat dangerous. I am using magnets with holes in them so that I can drill and tap a hole in the plastic, epoxy the magnet in place, and connect it to the rotor with a screw secured with lock tight. And I still have a 1/4 thick piece of Lexan between me and the rotor.

I think the BEST way to put magnets in a rotor is to devise a method where the magnet is attracted to ANOTHER magnet to hold both in place. See attached:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg rotors.jpg (40.1 KB, 33 views)
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Old 05-09-2019, 02:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
The coil bobbins ........... 245 to a case,

I'm not sure they will sell smaller lots, but they might.

Just a note... I am going with SQUARE coils on future builds. Round coils ................pulling the wires loose
You mean to tell me you wound 400 coils? That's a lot. Have you
ever encapsulated your coils and spools with epoxy?

So 1" of core material sticking out the back is enough to cool? How
about a set of aluminum fins or some kind of metal heat sink? Humm...
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Old 05-09-2019, 02:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWatcher View Post

I still have quite a few of those 1" by 1/8" neos that can be stacked.
Would recessing those into a radial rotor and super gluing in place,
The rotor is the heart of the mechanical. Your coils will cost you good
money. Hundreds in the end so buy some wire here and there. About
$120 approx per spool 11lbs.

You don't want a $10 rotor trust me. Take your time is key

Think it thru, no rush. The cups direct the magnetism one way. cheap.


http://www.magnet4less.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_11&products_id=147


http://www.magnet4less.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_95&products_id=561
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Old 05-09-2019, 03:51 AM
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Neos

Stacking neos is NOT the way to go. Two 1/4 thick neos do not put out NEAR the flux of a 1/2 neo.
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Old 05-09-2019, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
The standard coil bobbin I am using holds 3,000 feet of #23 when FULL. That gives me about 130 volts at 1.5 amps per coil with my rotor running at 2800 rpm. Now the only way to get more production with THAT coil is with a different rotor that has MORE magnets or THICKER or LARGER magnets and/or running at a higher rpm. Of course a LARGER coil with more wire will produce more power and research into how thick or how big a magnet is needed to fully "charge" a specific sized core is needed. The magnets I am using my be way overkill for my coils. I don't know. I'll know when I see it on my bench.

It would be pretty awesome if a bunch of folks were running the same sized rotor with the same size and number of magnets on a razor scooter motor like the one in the attached picture. And using 3 of the same sized coils. Then we could start experimenting with different numbers, sizes and thicknesses of magnets until we had what is BEST.

Attached is a picture of the little rotor I am using now 1" x 1" x 3/4" magnets on the rotor. Eight of them.
regards
per coil 3, 1.5 amp, 130 v equal 585 watts
how much your motor consumes
it's interesting if you already have profit
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  #84  
Old 05-09-2019, 06:09 AM
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Generator

The MY1020 running on 24 volts pulling 12 amps will run my generator with 10-12 coils on it. Its not rocket science to figure out whether this thing can have a COP>1 if built correctly.
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Old 05-09-2019, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
The MY1020 running on 24 volts pulling 12 amps
will run my generator with 10-12 coils on it. Its not rocket science to
figure out whether this thing can have a COP>1 if built correctly
.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
The standard coil bobbin I am using holds
3,000 feet of #23 when FULL. That gives me about 130 volts at
1.5 amps per coil with my rotor running at 2800 rpm
.


https://www.ebay.com/p/500w-24v-Electric-Motor-With-Bracket-Scooter-Bike-Go-kart-MINIBIKE-My1020/892033303?iid=283420548161


Lets see that is

Drive input 24vdc X 12amps = 288watts

Speed up Generator (single) coils output 130vac X 1.5 amps = 195watts

Multiple Speed up type generator coils (12 coils) 12 X 195w = 2340 watt

yeah I'de say that is better than COP > 1 so lets find the COP Okay?

That would be as follows 288w / 2340w = 8+ or COP 8

Now also consider Turion's past statements where the drive input of

288watts can be recycled or some can be recovered while running using

"THE THREE BATTER CIRCUIT" and from what I recall he recovers 50%
of 288w so now the COP doubles.

Dave has gotten even higher than that but COP 16 is far beyond my
wildest dreams.

Correct me if I made an error since I am recalling data from past threads.


.........................................
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  #86  
Old 05-09-2019, 11:06 AM
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Gentlemen Start your engines.

Personally I think the motor coils are where it's at. I'm speculating again, but trying to take too much power from gen coils used as motor coils, is a bit like putting a banana in the tail pipe of a carbon burner. It seems paradoxical, but the universe is a big place, and contrary to what we are told to believe, there should be enough for everyone.

I'm thinking of an old legend of the Fords Model T's magneto, being used as a 40 horse power self running electric motor. Motors are just about the timing, so when that window of opportunity is open. what can be done? So they had good quality iron, hysteresis, copper wires, spark gaps, and condensers.

Bro Mikeys idea of having a clutch is great ( probably not that easy), but the starter motor can be disengaged when it starts to become a drag.

I'm going to stop speculating now before I become too much of a drag.

cheers.
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Old 05-09-2019, 02:29 PM
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Coil output

Here’s another REALLY important tip. The output of the coil is related to the gap between the coil and the rotor magnet. So if you have your rotor horizontal with the coils arranged around it like spokes on a wheel, you have ALREADY sacrificed output just in the physical set up you have chosen. The increase in production is in direct relation to that gap and is IMPORTANT. Cutting the gap in half gives you more than double the output.

The air gap on the machines I have built with the help of a machinist is 1/16 of an inch. The air gap on the “home made” 3 coil prototype I am testing right now (picture attached) is closer to 1/2 inch. Why would I bother with this little machine when I have the big one? Because NOBODY is replicating my big machine, but perhaps a FEW of you will replicate this small one and I won’t be the only one trying to move this forward. IF I can prove to you it works. IF the inputs and outputs are close to what I have said they are.

Edit: Air gap is actually 5/16 not 1/2 inch. I just measured it instead of relying on my imperfect memory. And because I have 1” square magnets on a round rotor, the corner of the magnet is close to the core as it rotates, but when they are directly aligned the gap is greater.
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Last edited by Turion; 05-09-2019 at 04:09 PM.
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Old 05-09-2019, 04:38 PM
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Clutch

This photo is of a simple clutch taken from an old Dyson upright vacuum I bought back in 2004. My thumb is on the lever that engages it. One belt goes on the motor and the other belt goes on the rotor.
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Old 05-09-2019, 05:38 PM
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Hi turion, thanks for the tips, wondering how you will trigger what looks like motor coil placements, since the rotor has alternating poles.
That's odd that you can only get 5/16" gap, with my 1" diameter neos and this 4" diameter rotor, I can get it to 1/8" gap, just sitting there and when the corners of the magnet pass the core edge, it is closer to 1/16" gap.

Yes, I'm going with the horizontal rotor, only because the vertical rotor needs another coil on other side of magnet or 180 degrees from it, to balance the forces, or the rotor goes wonky.

People building this smaller model is infinitly more helpful to the cause, compared to nobody building it turion.
peace love light

Edit: what's the diameter of that rotor turion, looks like 8-10"
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Last edited by SkyWatcher; 05-09-2019 at 06:17 PM.
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Old 05-09-2019, 07:31 PM
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Hello all, Turion mentioned square coils,...maybe a triangular pattern that recedes or increases its points as the coil goes forward?
Example: triangle coil placed over triangle coil and then it is advanced or retarded from first coils starting point, then another in the same pattern.
First coil is at 12 noon, second coil starts at 1pm and third starts at 2pm,...etc.
Hmmm.
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