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Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

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  #451  
Old 09-21-2019, 10:25 PM
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Hey Sky glad to hear you are still pluggin away at builds. It is in our
blood to make stuff work, the rest will play golf instead which is fine.

It's the way we are, always making new things work. 1 idea is past on
from decade to decade.
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  #452  
Old 09-21-2019, 10:36 PM
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More info

Got smacked in the face today by something that should have been obvious to me, but wasn’t until today. Some of you may know it or be aware of it like I was but fail to apply it in your builds as I did.

A couple times a year there is a group in a neighboring community that gets together to talk about all things green including the possibility of FREE ENERGY. Ralph Ring has been their guest speaker the last couple times. Some of you will recognize that name. And I have been invited to speak as well since a few folks there have followed along on the forum over the years.

Anyway, I was preparing a little demo with a rotor and a single coil wound to speed up under. I have a pretty good idea of how much voltage my power supply needs to be set at to assure my rotor turns at high enough rpm to demonstrate speed up. I wanted to be accurate so I could show them that at a specific voltage it would NOT speed up under load, but with just .1 more volts it WILL speed up under load, so I was trying to be very accurate. I was using a 300 watt AC bulb as my load and thought it would be interesting to use a small AC motor I have. To my surprise, the lower voltage was able to speed up the run motor when the AC motor was used as load. In fact, I was able to LOWER the voltage quite a bit. (Which of course lowered the RPM) It dawned on me that when the motor coil of the AC motor was added to the circuit it increased the total capacitance of the circuit, which is also increasing the capacitance of the main coil. Hope that makes sense and you understand how that can effect your build.
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Last edited by Turion; 09-21-2019 at 10:38 PM.
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  #453  
Old 09-22-2019, 01:38 AM
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Thane Heins showed this years ago. He used AC bench grinders to drive
his genheads. First he would show the AC motor running his genhead
using a brass link or coupler. Next he changed to steel.

It would not speed up with the brass coupler. After replacing it with
steel as we all watched it sped up then.

He talked about flux or something never really got it. However he said
that the field from the AC motor strengthened the AC RegenX coils or
what we call lenz free Tesla coils. patent 5 million something.

Glad you are going to give a demo to people who are thirsty for extra
energy producing generators. Infinity is the right word for the COP of
these machines.

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  #454  
Old 09-22-2019, 02:06 AM
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I think this is 8yrs ago? Thane deleted his video but someone
else uploaded it again. People delete their video's and something
can be learned from each of them.

Here is what you want to see.


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  #455  
Old 09-22-2019, 02:15 AM
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Here is part 3 and my mistake, this is not 8 yrs ago it is 11 yrs
ago i was looking at this.

Anyway here it is with the AC induction motor tight to the genny


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  #456  
Old 09-22-2019, 02:17 AM
MerLynn MerLynn is offline
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Here's one for you....

Radiant Energy as Tesla described it,
Neutral Center Energy as Keely described it,
Still Magnetic Light as Walter Russell described it.
Cold Fusion Electricity as Ponds and Fishyman described it.
Equilibrium as Joe describes it
Zero Point Energy as the Ill informed describe it

Does Not have any Lenz law problems. Nor is it meterable...
But you know by its effects that you have it.
It comes with many different uses and humans seem to only want HEAT from it... To save their lazy arses from work.

Keshe says it ( I dont like his terminology at all) that Structures of Light constitutes the ONLY building block in the Universe. Tesla says it that Everything is the Light. Its not a flow of electrons creating Lenz laws...

Energy is a 2 way flow and we only play with the Hot side. Can Fire Cracker Scientists be that dumb?

Here's but one use for Radiant Energy....
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Aqua-Chi...E/174030365268

Here is another (using the password wizzzard777)
https://www.magneticwaterscience.com/?page_id=46

Here's how to make Food out of sea water using Radiant Zero point, Neutral Center Energy
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Ocean-Wh...s/173841889962
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  #457  
Old 09-22-2019, 02:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MerLynn View Post
Here's one for you....

Radiant Energy as Tesla described it,
Neutral Center Energy as Keely described it,
Still Magnetic Light as Walter Russell described it.
Cold Fusion Electricity as Ponds and Fishyman described it.
Equilibrium as Joe describes it
Zero Point Energy as the Ill informed describe it

Does Not have any Lenz law problems. Nor is it meterable...
But you know by its effects that you have it.
It comes with many different uses and humans seem to only want HEAT from it... To save their lazy arses from work.

Keshe says it ( I dont like his terminology at all) that Structures of Light constitutes the ONLY building block in the Universe. Tesla says it that Everything is the Light. Its not a flow of electrons creating Lenz laws...

Energy is a 2 way flow and we only play with the Hot side. Can Fire Cracker Scientists be that dumb?

Here's but one use for Radiant Energy....
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Aqua-Chi...E/174030365268

Here is another (using the password wizzzard777)
https://www.magneticwaterscience.com/?page_id=46

Here's how to make Food out of sea water using Radiant Zero point, Neutral Center Energy
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Ocean-Wh...s/173841889962
Thx MerLynn

Hey Turion

The independent lab told thane it was the motor cap speeding it up. LOL
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  #458  
Old 09-22-2019, 02:21 AM
MerLynn MerLynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post
Here is part 3 and my mistake, this is not 8 yrs ago it is 11 yrs
ago i was looking at this.

Anyway here it is with the AC induction motor tight to the genny




That is an exceptional Boat Anchor you built there. Keely said you cannot make a Neutral Center by Mechanical means. Its done by Creating a Magnetic Field WITHIN a Magnetic Field. Diodes stop the 2 way flow so it cannot ever achieve Radiant or unlimited over unity.

The Fisher and Paykel or Samsung washer machine motor is ALL you need besides an ability to think outside the box.
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  #459  
Old 09-22-2019, 02:25 AM
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Hey Turion
your new setup is not a fair test as a comparison to your machines.
You'll fool just about everyone there tho.


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  #460  
Old 09-22-2019, 02:50 PM
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Fool?

Not trying to “fool” anyone. Just describing what I saw and what I believe happened. Take it or leave it.

By the way, what I was talking about in my post has NOTHING to do with the video you showed of Thane’s stuff. He was showing that when the brass coupler is replaced with a magnetically conducting iron or steel coupler, there is an effect caused by the (now) coupled magnetic fields. With the brass coupler, no speed up under load. With the iron or steel coupler, speed up under load.

What I was showing is that when a speed up under load GENERATOR coil is physically connected to the coil in the motor it’s trying to run, the additional wire in the motor is ADDED to the length of the wire in the generator coil, increasing its capacitance and allowing it to speed up at a lower RPM, thus lower voltage. In BOTH cases in my example there is speed up under load. It has NOTHING to do with coupling magnetic fields and EVERYTHING to do with physically increasing the capacitance of the coil by ADDING MORE WIRE that just happens to be in the load. It should indicate to almost anyone how important the LOAD is that is connected to the generator coil. Not what Thane was showing at all.
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Last edited by Turion; 09-22-2019 at 04:46 PM.
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  #461  
Old 09-22-2019, 04:33 PM
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Inductor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Not trying to “fool” anyone. Just describing what I saw and what I believe happened. Take it or leave it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
...It dawned on me that when the motor coil of the AC motor was added to the circuit it increased the total capacitance of the circuit, which is also increasing the capacitance of the main coil...
Hi Turion,

Any increase in capacitance due to the motor as a load would be inconsequential compared to the inductance. Ever notice how circuit components called inductors are actual coils of wire, often using a ferrous core. Motor coils make excellent inductors. And motor loads for generators (alternators) are responsible for lagging power factors.

Some AC motors come equipped with capacitors attached for starting and sometimes running. The capacitors are typically mounted on the outside of the motor case. You don't specify the motor type.

I am just relating a few facts. I don't want to discuss it further. Take or leave it.

Regards,

bi
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  #462  
Old 09-22-2019, 05:43 PM
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Motor

bi,
This was a small AC motor from a really ancient bathroom ceiling fan I took out of the house I am remodeling. The house was built in the 60’s, but don't know if the fan was original. It sure looks like it. No capacitors present that I can see, and I had it apart to clean it up as it was full of crap. I just can’t stand to throw a motor away.

I understand that could can be used as inductors. I have used them that way in many circuits I have built. I’m not really concerned about that. The whole point of my post was just to show that the load connected to the generator coil can have a dramatic effect on if and at what RPM the coil will cause the drive motor to speed up under load. That’s it. Just an observation. Thanks for the input though. That was useful information and I can appreciate posts like that.
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  #463  
Old 09-22-2019, 08:55 PM
Quantum_well Quantum_well is offline
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Be amazed!

Screenshot_20190922-215010.jpg
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Screenshot_20190922-215010.jpg (100.4 KB, 28 views)
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  #464  
Old 09-22-2019, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Not trying to “fool” anyone. Just describing what I saw and what I believe happened. Take it or leave it.

By the way, what I was talking about in my post has NOTHING to do with the video you showed of Thane’s stuff. He was showing that when the brass coupler is replaced with a magnetically conducting iron or steel coupler, there is an effect caused by the (now) coupled magnetic fields. With the brass coupler, no speed up under load. With the iron or steel coupler, speed up under load.

What I was showing is that when a speed up under load GENERATOR coil is physically connected to the coil in the motor it’s trying to run, the additional wire in the motor is ADDED to the length of the wire in the generator coil, increasing its capacitance and allowing it to speed up at a lower RPM, thus lower voltage. In BOTH cases in my example there is speed up under load. It has NOTHING to do with coupling magnetic fields and EVERYTHING to do with physically increasing the capacitance of the coil by ADDING MORE WIRE that just happens to be in the load. It should indicate to almost anyone how important the LOAD is that is connected to the generator coil. Not what Thane was showing at all.
Okay my mistake, we have gone thru this 6 years now and it seems I did it
again, made a mistake about the setup you are running. I still am not
sure. Are you saying the induction motor you replaced of the DC motor
is now connected in series with the gen winding?

I thought you meant you ran an AC motor in place of a DC motor and
not putting gen coils in series with the induction winding? That is not
something I would have tried.

It was my understanding you switched motors. During Thanes video is
the equivalent of and AC motor vs a DC motor, probably don't follow me
but that's okay.

You see the DC motor and the AC motor respond differently to extra
flux and you know that. I know you are not trying to fool everyone but
I had to give BI a bone to chew on.
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  #465  
Old 09-22-2019, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Not trying to “fool” anyone.

GENERATOR coil is physically connected to the coil in the motor it’s trying to run, the additional wire in the motor is ADDED to the length of the wire in the generator coil, increasing its capacitance and allowing it to speed up at a lower RPM, thus lower voltage.
This is the part I don't understand. What does this mean? Connected in series?
You mean electrically connected?
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  #466  
Old 09-22-2019, 11:22 PM
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Two motors

I am turning my rotor with my original DC motor. Call this the “run” motor.

My generator coils have to be connected to a load to speed up under load. Instead of connecting them to 300 watt AC light bulbs as I HAVE been, I decided to connect them to an AC motor to run it. There are two wires coming off the coil. There are two wires on the motor. Those wires are connected together. Now the coil output runs directly to the AC motor. But because there are WINDINGS in the AC motor, the coil sees this as more wire that has to be filled up with electricity before the coil is turned into an electromagnet. More CAPACITANCE. It’s like adding several thousand feet of wire to the coil. What happens? The coil takes longer to fill with electricity and turn into an electromagnet, so speeds up the run motor (cthe DC motor) at a LOWER RPM.

The coil MUST have a load on it before it can speed up the run motor. That load can add capacitance to the coil and affect the required RPM.

That’s all I’m trying to say.
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  #467  
Old 09-23-2019, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
I am turning my rotor with my original DC motor. Call this the “run” motor.

My generator coils have to be connected to a load to speed up under load. Instead of connecting them to 300 watt AC light bulbs as I HAVE been, I decided to connect them to an AC motor to run it. There are two wires coming off the coil. There are two wires on the motor. Those wires are connected together. Now the coil output runs directly to the AC motor. But because there are WINDINGS in the AC motor, the coil sees this as more wire that has to be filled up with electricity before the coil is turned into an electromagnet. More CAPACITANCE. It’s like adding several thousand feet of wire to the coil. What happens? The coil takes longer to fill with electricity and turn into an electromagnet, so speeds up the run motor (cthe DC motor) at a LOWER RPM.

The coil MUST have a load on it before it can speed up the run motor. That load can add capacitance to the coil and affect the required RPM.

That’s all I’m trying to say.
Thank you for being redundant. That is what I need. I have always had
some learning disability and I jump to conclusions sometimes.

NOW I GET IT. And that is what I came for. This is good data. I guess
I will see just how slow I can get speed up using an induction AC motor
as a load. Awesome. I like these experiments.
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  #468  
Old 09-23-2019, 03:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
I am turning my rotor with my original DC motor.
Call this the “run” motor.
The coil takes longer to fill with electricity and turn into an electromagnet,
so speeds up the run motor (cthe DC motor) at a LOWER RPM.

The coil MUST have a load on it before it can speed up the run motor.
That load can add capacitance to the coil and affect the required RPM.

That’s all I’m trying to say.
It must have been significantly lower for you to mention. Were you
getting speed up at 1000rpm's? It seems like I remember you already
got one of your coils speeding up at 1600rpm's with all of the wires
in series. You probably wanted more current so you are using 3 circuits
of around a 1000 ft each and 2800 rpm's is normal. How much under
2800rpm's were you able to get speed up?

Even 2200rpm's would be good.Induction motors have several hundred
ft of wire on them. Several thousand feet? I guess you have a tiny ceiling
motor? I don't know about that, seems like a lot.

Here is a ceiling motor winding, looks like hair thin wire. You are
right AGAIN You could put 130vac into one of those and not
stress it out to badly.




https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-168WInewo...907_121220.jpg

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  #469  
Old 09-23-2019, 04:39 AM
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Data

All the data I have shared on the forum was for my big machine, which had six of the 2” magnets on it that were 1/4” thick. When I went with the thicker rotor there were pairs of those magnets on the rotor with a thin piece of plastic between them, but still just six magnet (pairs). So 2800 rpm was the required RPM to get speed up under load. 12 coils at 120-130 volts and 1.5 amps per coil. My current rotor has 12 magnet pair and I have seen speed up as low as 1600 RPM. The magnets are smaller in diameter, but have almost the same mass because they are way thicker. I’m fairly sure it will speed up under load at LOWER RPM. BECAUSE, doubling the number of magnets is not the only change that was made.

The original coils on the 2800 RPM machine were 3 strands at 1000 feet each, but I went down to 800 foot strands to bring the voltage down to 120 volts.

Current coils are 12 strands of 250 feet each, with four strands in each group connected in series. I still end up with 3 wires coming off the coil so amp output is the about the same, but speed up under load RPM goes down.

The capacity of these coils is greater, so that means a greater output as a generator coil. I haven’t measured the output and won’t until I get the generator back together.

If your goal is to bring down the RPM for speed up under load, you have 2 choices
1. Add more magnets to the rotor.
2. Add more strands of wire in parallel connected in series.
You can still have roughly the same total amount of wire on your coil, but just shorter strands and more of them. Gives you more in parallel connected in series and more capacitance.

I guess I was very vague about the AC ceiling fan. It was an EXHAUST fan in the bathroom ceiling. An entirely different kind of motor. Sorry about the confusion.
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  #470  
Old 09-23-2019, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Turion View Post
All the data I have shared on the forum was for my big machine, which had six of the 2” magnets on it that were 1/4” thick. When I went with the thicker rotor there were pairs of those magnets on the rotor with a thin piece of plastic between them, but still just six magnet (pairs). So 2800 rpm was the required RPM to get speed up under load. 12 coils at 120-130 volts and 1.5 amps per coil. My current rotor has 12 magnet pair and I have seen speed up as low as 1600 RPM. The magnets are smaller in diameter, but have almost the same mass because they are way thicker. I’m fairly sure it will speed up under load at LOWER RPM. BECAUSE, doubling the number of magnets is not the only change that was made.

The original coils on the 2800 RPM machine were 3 strands at 1000 feet each, but I went down to 800 foot strands to bring the voltage down to 120 volts.

Current coils are 12 strands of 250 feet each, with four strands in each group connected in series. I still end up with 3 wires coming off the coil so amp output is the about the same, but speed up under load RPM goes down.

The capacity of these coils is greater, so that means a greater output as a generator coil. I haven’t measured the output and won’t until I get the generator back together.

If your goal is to bring down the RPM for speed up under load, you have 2 choices
1. Add more magnets to the rotor.
2. Add more strands of wire in parallel connected in series.
You can still have roughly the same total amount of wire on your coil, but just shorter strands and more of them. Gives you more in parallel connected in series and more capacitance.

I guess I was very vague about the AC ceiling fan. It was an EXHAUST fan in the bathroom ceiling. An entirely different kind of motor. Sorry about the confusion.
Took your picture again
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  #471  
Old 09-23-2019, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Turion View Post

If your goal is to bring down the RPM for speed up under load,
you have 2 choices
1. Add more magnets to the rotor.
2. Add more strands of wire in parallel connected in series.
Absolutely is a great goal because anytime we can bring down the RPM
the longevity on the apparatus is increased for one thing. The other thing
is that as RPM goes down the safety concerns or danger is reduced as
parts wear down and begin to fail.

RPM's of 3000-4000-5000 would require a higher degree of precision
brought about by CNC machining, metallurgy, mechanical teams to
construct for a smaller more powerful output for way less money.

Did you ever use a high RPM generator for extended periods in the field
to run saws and lights? Those poor machines run 3600 RPM's and
degrade very rapidly. You know when she's gonna blow.

On the other hand if you also had a chance to
run an ONAN Generator at the same construction site you will
understand the difference that RPM makes.

As you work in the field using a screaming generator your nerves are
constantly bombarded and you can tell that is diminishing day by day
till one day you go buy another for fear you will be out of power.
The other one still runs but you have to be ready.

The Onan Gen runs for years and rarely fails, never making you wonder
if it is going to hang in there. This is how I look at a slower moving rotor.
The Onan runs at a crawl of 1800 rpm. Now you can rest easy.

Bigger rotor, bigger winding, bigger engine for slow speeds, see below.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yf2zP2UTK6A


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRJYAs5DOs8





.................................................. ...............
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  #472  
Old 09-23-2019, 05:27 PM
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Rpm

With reduced RPM your output is less. BUT we know how to compensate for that don’t we? You have a bigger rotor with MORE magnets and MORE coils.

In the past they couldn’t keep reducing the rpm and still achieve more output because they were limited in the number of coils they could add by both the magnetic drag and Lenz (and at low enough speeds the effects of cogging) We have shown how to eliminate both. The slower you want to go, the bigger the coil and the bigger the magnets (And MORE of both of course)
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Old 09-23-2019, 09:27 PM
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With reduced RPM your output is less. BUT we know how to compensate for that don’t we? You have a bigger rotor with MORE magnets and MORE coils.

In the past they couldn’t keep reducing the rpm and still achieve more output because they were limited in the number of coils they could add by both the magnetic drag and Lenz (and at low enough speeds the effects of cogging) We have shown how to eliminate both. The slower you want to go, the bigger the coil and the bigger the magnets (And MORE of both of course)
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Old 09-25-2019, 12:34 AM
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Speed up with Indctive load.

When speed up is achieved with an inductive load and has leveled out, it might be possible to make it continue to speed up by gradually lowering the inductance of the load until it is going fast enough to bypass the inductor.

Three possible ways to do this might be, use a large inductor with a removable core and gradually pull the core out until it is just an air coil, or have a multi-tapped inductor, or use the primary of of a transformer that has a higher inductance than the motor coils when unloaded, then gradually cancel out that inductance by increasing the load on the transformer.
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Old 09-25-2019, 09:33 AM
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fast enough to bypass the inductor.

Three possible ways to do this might be, use a large inductor with a removable core and gradually pull the core out until it is just an air coil, or have a multi-tapped inductor, or use the primary of of a transformer that has a higher inductance than the motor coils when unloaded, then gradually cancel out that inductance by increasing the load on the transformer.
Did you try one of these? Remember you need power output also.
Which one of the three can you demonstrate? Or have you done them
all? Generators today can not be adjusted this way. Do you have such
a motor generator? Or did you want me to run the test?

Any data to support these possible solutions?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 09-25-2019, 12:15 PM
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Did you try one of these? Remember you need power output also.
Which one of the three can you demonstrate? Or have you done them
all? Generators today can not be adjusted this way. Do you have such
a motor generator? Or did you want me to run the test?

Any data to support these possible solutions?

Thanks in advance.
HI BroMikey,
It wasn't my intention to get anyones hopes up too high. I haven't tried or are able too demonstrate any of these. I was just running with the idea of an inductive load causing amperage and maybe ti's magnetic field to lag causing the rotor speedup, The idea of gradually lowering the inductance was just a method to adjust the timing, much like the vacuum advance on the old gasoline motors.

I should have been more clear. The idea was intended to be a motor speed controller. I don't think that alot of power could be taken from it because of the inductive impedance that would be created. If it worked at all and the rotor speed could be accelerated to the point where the inductor could be bypassed and the coils are getting hot from being shorted to much, maybe then a restive load could be put across the coil,

For it to work at all the think that the hardware would have to optimized for that and the coils would have to induct powerfully. It's a busy time of year for me and my current attempt at a machine is a while off. If you have a machine assembled and the idea interests you, you are welcome to try it. If you do, please share data.

Regards
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Old 10-14-2019, 05:42 AM
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Hi all, have been testing the solid state multifilar coil generator.

It seems the same effect may be manifesting.
Using a drive coil/core that is using pulsed dc (joule thief style) and a 26 strand coil/core, in-line and in front of that, cores touching or with a small air gap, the small air gap gives a little more voltage.

With the correct frequency range, using a low ohm resistor connected across series wired multifilar coil, the input amps decrease and an audible increase in oscillator frequency can be heard.
Also have an led bulb off the drive coil, connected to flyback diode and that gets a little brighter at the same time.
This test was only drawing around 1 watt.

Will be testing this further and would also like to setup a flip flop drive circuit, to see if an AC drive will be any better.
peace love light
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Last edited by SkyWatcher; 10-14-2019 at 05:47 AM.
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  #478  
Old 10-14-2019, 10:13 AM
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BroMikey BroMikey is online now
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Sounds like 1 watt in and you can light an LED bulb? Maybe like
the joule thief? Can you show the setup, I am lost to know what is
being said.

BTW I take back what i said, Thane only used a bifilar coil not a 26
wire coil. Should be interesting. All in series? Humm..
Got a vid or diagram?

The amplifier drive was only for the BITOROID on steroids but it won't
hurt to try it. The Bitt as we call it uses an alternation flux path to benefit
from PF keeping the input the same. maybe you can do this with your
setup? Hum...? Let me know.
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Last edited by BroMikey; 10-14-2019 at 10:22 AM.
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  #479  
Old 10-15-2019, 02:56 AM
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Hi bromikey, will post a pic tomorrow sometime, busy with some other things at the moment.

The 120vac. 6 watt led bulb, is just placed across the drive coil diode flyback, so it protects the transistor a bit.

Using a low ohm resistor across multifilar coil/core as load.

As the pot. on the joule thief transistor base is varied, it does seem if the frequency is too low, the amp input does increase under load.

Though when brought high enough, the input decreases under load and frequency increases and led bulb goes a little brighter.

That seems similar to the mechanical version, maybe.
peace love light
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Old 10-15-2019, 03:29 AM
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BroMikey BroMikey is online now
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Hey sky maybe Turion knows what might happen, he did some of those
joule thief's, but me thinks the spike will destroy your bulb leds

Ain't it the pits. Now then using 26 series strands for a secondary is a whole
new ball game. Not sure what to try for kicks.

Dave knows more than he lets on. Try ANOTHER BASIC FREE ENERGY DEVICE
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Last edited by BroMikey; 10-15-2019 at 03:32 AM.
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