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  #421  
Old 07-17-2019, 11:37 PM
alexelectric alexelectric is offline
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Originally Posted by dragon View Post
Being a small unit they most likely have to use smaller wire with lots of turns to achieve a reasonable voltage level for transmission as well as making the best of the real estate available for the wire and keep the rpm's within a reasonable range for the blade design. With something that small their probably using blades that run in a TSR range of 7 to 9 which is pretty fast.

I started building 3 phase air core alternators in the late 90's. Much more efficient and very light weight. I used to have custom triangle magnets made, not for the cogging - specifically for the magnetic surface area over the round or rectangular to advantage the real estate for maximum copper. Still have a few hundred of these in a box I use for my own toys... The stators were designed for the lowest possible resistance as well as ultra low rpm operation.

Given this background I can see a few flaws in the solenoid style alternator design, I understand your reasoning for the design but with a few design tweaks you may end up in a much more efficient place.

The low Lenz design that I posted doesn't stop or lower the lenz force ( we need this for a powerful output ). What it does is divert the force away from the rotor - that is - because the magnets are stationary and the stator coils are stationary the Lenz force is diverted into the solid mount of the case. The rotor simply directs the polarity. There is still a slight force working on the rotor but most of the Lenz force is against the magnet and stator. I posted a video of the stator wound with 8 ga wire producing 28 amps in that small fan motor conversion. Even at very low rpm the current output is very high for it's size. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dordyphTKFs

In any case, I know you guys will figure it out... I'm simply a curious observer in your project.
interesting what you mention, but you can give more details and more clear demonstrations
Thank you
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  #422  
Old Yesterday, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Turion View Post
I'm getting old. I wasn't exactly sure about the ohm measurement on those coils I posted about, so I scoured my old notebooks this morning until I found the proper entry. All coils were SUPPOSED to be 3 strands 800' of #23.

I pulled all 12 coils off the big machine because some were NOT speeding up under load' They measured as follows
1 @ 5.2 ohms Nope
2 @ 5.4 ohms Nope
6 @ 5.5 ohms Nope
2 @ 5.6 ohms DID speed up under load
1 @ 5.7 ohms WASN'T tested

Hummm..... Very interesting, let me think about the old coils BRB.

1000' = 20 and using 800' could be multiplied as .8 X 20ohm = 16ohms
then using the parallel resistance calculator = 5.33 ohms

not sure what happened there.maybe they are a little longer?

If they were 900' each that would be .9 X 20 = comes to 6 ohms

So I guess they are 850' this must be why you went to 1000'??

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  #423  
Old Yesterday, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Turion View Post
If 2" is the average diameter, the distance AROUND a two inch diameter circle (circumference) is 6.28319 inches and 125' divided by 6.28319" would be 238.7 turns per strand x 12 strands of wire = 2,864 total turns of wire.
https://youtu.be/A3DakXN-cR8
That is an awesome video Dave. I wish I could see it light up the bulbs
and say maybe 5 or 6 with the rotor turning at 2800 rpm's the motor
amp draw might go down?

would it run at 24vdc @ 18 amps because 36vdc X 18 amps =650watts

3857rpm's. That is a crazy speed, do you have to run it that high to get lenz free?

That is a beautiful machine Dave, you should be very proud of it.

Look at all the money you have tied up in it, so incredible.

You could put 10 or 15 LED bulbs in parallel to get what you want, a
small price to pay considering all you have tied up.

Let's see the average LED bulb is 12 watts and you are putting out
say 180-220 watt so 15 bulbs is 15 X 12 = 180 watts. Or does that
throw a damper on speed up?

That would be dramatic wouldn't it. 15 bulbs per channel X 6 coils.

Doing the math even at 650w input you could show 1200w output
with only half the coils hooked up. Not bad. Are all of your coils that
are left over not speeding up? So run 3850 r's then and use two
bulbs in series? No? Use two 75w bulbs in series and your voltage
will work out better.

Just kidding on having it speed up but you know what I mean.






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  #424  
Old Yesterday, 03:50 PM
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Old machine

That is an old version of my machine in the video. It was composed of blocks that stacked and were bolted to the blocks below. They held the coils. I think I built 3 versions of that machine before I trashed that design. The blocks were supposed to clamp the coils in place with the ends of the coil bobbins in little groves. Hard to put them in place, and they kept popping out. Plus, you had to take the whole thing apart to take the coils out. Poor design, but I learned. Kept trying to redo it and make the grooves deeper and the clamp tighter, but gave up after 3 tries. It had lots of problems. As you see in the video, I was only running it with HALF the coils, so the rest of the blocks were NOT stacked. It did NOT have magnetic neutralization in place, so high amp draw. Couldn’t really RUN it with all the coils in place on the MY1020motor.

Here is a later version running with ALL coils speeding up under load and six 300 watt bulbs lit. Still NO magnetic neutralization in place so drawing WAY too many amps for the motor, but if ANYONE thinks I could have turned that rotor with 12 coils in place and UNDER load without the machine being Lenz neutral, I invite them to get off their ass and TRY it. This was running on an MY1020 motor on 24 volts. But better than 30 amps and the motor is rated for like 27.

Magnetic neutralization was the NEXT step, which also increased the rpm and REALLY stepped up the output. It ALSO took ALL the strain and stress OFF the motor. It is a beautiful thing to see. I should also mention that the rotor in this video has 6 of the 2” magnets that are 1/4 thick. With 12 of the 1” magnets that are 3/4 thick the output goes up to 250% of the original. Just so you know.

In the video above, I NEEDED the 36 volts to break the magnetic lock because that rotor had six magnets and places for 12 coils, so on start up, each magnet was aligned with a coil on each side of it. Once it was running voltage could be turned down to 24 or 12. I eventually settled on 24 volts as the best input.

In the video below, to get the machine to even start with all 12 coils on the machine, I had a button that would fire all the coils as motor coils for a split second to break the magnetic lock, and then the motor could turn the thing. But by the time you put the strain of getting up to speed in the face of magnetic drag on that motor five or six times, it was done. Neutralizing magnetic drag was critical.

https://youtu.be/l4Rjh0w3SuY
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Last edited by Turion; Yesterday at 04:17 PM.
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  #425  
Old Yesterday, 08:51 PM
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Hi all, thanks for sharing all the good and helpful information.
Just finished connecting 25 strands in series and will be mounting the coil/core where the other large coil/core was, we shall see what happens.
Will increase strands in series if needed, though have a feeling 25 will do it with the more powerful magnets on the drill press magnet rotor.

Also, take note of me homemade back to back drill chuck, motor arbor/adapter.
Will be using this in the near future, to use with the scooter motor that I was trying to use, and maybe get a different one, higher power scooter motor.
peace love light

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  #426  
Old Yesterday, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
That is an old version...... Kept trying to
redo it and make the grooves deeper and the clamp tighter, but gave up after 3 tries. It had lots of problems..... so high amp draw.


Here is a later version running with ALL coils speeding up under load
and six 300 watt bulbs lit. Still NO magnetic neutralization in place


With 12 of the 1” magnets that are 3/4 thick the output goes up to 250% of the original. Just so you know.

In the video above, I NEEDED the 36 volts to break the magnetic lock because that rotor had six magnets and places for 12 coils, so on start up, each magnet was aligned with a coil on each side of it. Once it was running voltage could be turned down to 24 or 12. I eventually settled on 24 volts as the best input.

In the video below, to get the machine to even start with all 12 coils on the machine, I had a button that would fire all the coils as motor coils for a split second to break the magnetic lock,

https://youtu.be/l4Rjh0w3SuY
Wow it is a beautiful thing to neutralize and use 12 X 1" magnets
wow wee that's a lot of improvement and with both in place a 2000w
machine becomes a 5000w machine. Better get a cooling scheme.



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  #427  
Old Yesterday, 10:18 PM
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Machine

Between 1800-2000 watts. It may be more, but that’s what I KNOW it will do. If you know how much a coil will output at a given rpm of the rotor using a specific size of magnet, and the amp draw and speed of the motor is unaffected no matter how many coils you add or whether or not they are loaded, lots more may be possible, especially at higher speeds. But I am very happy with what I have stated. Less than 300 watts in and 1800-2000 watts out.
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  #428  
Old Today, 12:10 AM
dragon dragon is offline
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Turion, nice build ! Sounds sweet humming away there. What are you estimating the efficiency to be as shown in the video? Are those 220 volt 300 watt bulbs?
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  #429  
Old Today, 02:35 AM
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Hi all, the double drill chuck motor adapter works nicely, it runs very true.

Going to use this scooter motor now and remove the drill press monstrosity.

Now the motor can easily be swapped for anything with a shaft diameter of 1/2" or less.
And if it needs some pillow block bearings, etc., that can easily be implemented as well, as some are on my shelves.

Also, will be able to use the motor pulse controller I built to run this motor and we can see changes in rotor speed better.
peace love light

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  #430  
Old Today, 03:00 AM
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@ Dragon
Turion's coils put out 130v his bulbs are for USA grid. 120vac

@Sky
Great Idea, excellent brain storming.
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