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  #301  
Old 07-13-2019, 11:51 AM
lotec lotec is offline
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Thanks SkyWatcher for sharing test results. Ive been curious for some time about these types of coils.

Thanks Dragon, that looks like nice work.

Regards
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  #302  
Old 07-13-2019, 09:44 PM
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SkyWatcher SkyWatcher is offline
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Hi all, made a few more tests today.
Changed the pulley configuration and set it to maximum 3070 rpm.

Each power channel now gives 130 volts AC, coil open circuit.

Then wired both channels in series for 260 volts ac.

Tried a 25 watt 120vac, incandescent bulb and it shows 10 volts ac across the bulb.
Input watts do not change, though hardly any power is being drawn by the bulb.

Think something is wrong with this setup so far.
Can the magnet to core gap be the problem, it is at 1/8" gap at the moment.
On one power channel, the 6 watt led bulb lights up nicely, though with an increase in watts.
Hmm, will have to give this some thought.

Hi lotec, you're welcome.
peace love light
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  #303  
Old 07-13-2019, 10:12 PM
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BroMikey BroMikey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWatcher View Post

Each power channel now gives 130 volts AC, coil open circuit.

Then wired both channels in series for 260 volts ac.

Here is the data for mine. 29awg wire 55pound magnets @ 1/16"
gap against 3/4" X 3/4" core block. Output at 3000 rpm's = per
strand of measurement. 1 Strand 50 votls @ 170 foot.

Each strand 170 feet X 17 strands = 900 volts all open circuit readings.
The wire is rated at 600vac bye bye coil.

Same setup gap at 1/8" output 450vac with barely any speed up under
a loaded condition, Like I said you will learn the importance of
building with high tolerances. The tighter gaps and the stronger
magnets stress out a poorly built platform. Use a shield to hide behind.

Wooden wheels with popped in magnets might come out if gaps are
tightened up so be careful SKY.
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  #304  
Old 07-14-2019, 12:45 AM
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Tightly wound 50 strand "C" core 79 oz





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  #305  
Old 07-14-2019, 02:56 AM
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SkyWatcher SkyWatcher is offline
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Hi bromikey, thanks for the tips.
Wow, nice coil/core you have there, is that 29awg. wire, looks thicker.

Don't think it will be a problem to get 1/16" gap, the rotor runs very true, meaning imperceptible wobble.
Will add some super glue to each rotor magnet just in case and a barrier.
Still seems a little hard to believe, that closing the gap by only a 1/16", will make much difference in amperage output.
I'm now wondering if the extended core on the front was a mistake.
Can always turn the coil around the other way, as the back side is just about flush with the bobbin material.
Think that's the next step, turn the coil/core around, so the rotor magnet flux, can sweep through the coil/core closer.

Then again, your core is miles away from the coil, will have to ponder this.
peace love light
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  #306  
Old 07-14-2019, 04:45 AM
bistander bistander is offline
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Maximum power transfer

Hi Sky,

Please look into the matter. By increasing RPM you should see an increase in output voltage. Which you did. But instead of following my advice, you wired the 2 channels in series. Yes, that increased OC voltage, but with your load choice, sent you further away from matching impedance. Matched impedance is a big deal in area of AC power. Ever notice how HiFi speakers and amplifiers are matched?

So when you put the 2 channels in series, the coil's resistance went to 62 ohms. From the lamp's rating, load resistance in about 600 ohms. You must not of saw much power as you did not measure it.

The previous test used one coil channel (31 ohm) and a 10 ohm load resistor. You recorded 0.89 VAC, or .79mVA.

If you run 2 channels in parallel (15.5 ohms) it will be pretty close to matching a 10 ohm load. Or if you have 3 of those resistors, configure for 15 ohms. That will show you the maximum power with that configuration. Then cut the air gap in half and really increase power.

BM and Turion like to bad-mouth me. But I've got many years of education and experience with this technology. I know what I'm talking about. Don't believe me? Check me on the maximum power transfer therom. Or run the test I suggest.

Whatever. Thanks for sharing the data.

Regards,

bi
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  #307  
Old 07-14-2019, 06:47 AM
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BroMikey BroMikey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWatcher View Post
Hi bromikey, thanks for the tips.
Wow, nice coil/core you have there, is that 29awg. wire, looks thicker.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post

BM and Turion like to bad-mouth me.
bi
@ Bi

It isn't bad mouthing, it's called correcting you for your inability to follow
the data presented for this build. The goal is to see any amount of power
that can be generated without dragging down the speed of the rotor.

Since you are not building this design it is a foreign subject matter
when comparing flawed data. We are not after resonance or levitation
we are building coils that are free from lenz law.

@Sky
If you get enough flux from a magnet the length of the core won't
stop you from reaching the null or speed up. Close the gap and add
all of the winding in series. 26 strands will speed up the rotor . From
there you can back off a few strands at a time til you get the null
point. If 26 strands does not do anything much it is because you need
to close the gap. Most small motors are gapped at half a 1/16th or less.

My new coil is 25awg. As you already know the purpose of having single
magnet thru the rotor coming out on each side with a "C" core is to
close the gap without undue stress or to self center the stress on the
magnets or balance out the pull. I would be afraid of your stacked
magnets that I think you said are glued together when closing the gap.

You have a barrier, great.

It is also possible that your drill press motor is just to powerful to
notice small fluctuations. this is why I weaken the power of my AC
dishwasher motor by using a Variac. What I found was that running
my Ac motor at 120vac or 85vac the rpm's were the same with no load
on it. The lower voltage is better for measuring load changes, much more
sensitive. My motor is like yours, it can run at 5 amps. All I needed was
1-2amps.

Do you have a Variac? Or a dimmer switch for a ceiling fan? Or
throw on a dc motor.


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  #308  
Old 07-14-2019, 04:02 PM
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SkyWatcher SkyWatcher is offline
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Hi all, Hi bi, thanks for sharing the information.

Hi bromikey, thanks for the positive and good information.
Yes, the core you have is nice for balancing the rotor.

Don't have any large enough dc motor on hand here, or at any local shop except maybe a different surplus shop that am aware of, to swap out the drill press motor.

Though maybe will pick up a dimmer just to test it, since the test durations are not very long and this motor can be replaced.
So next step, will be closing the gap to at least 1/16", then use dimmer to lower input voltage, to make rotor speed changes more obvious and adjust coil strands in series.
peace love light
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  #309  
Old 07-14-2019, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWatcher View Post
So next step, will be closing the gap to at least 1/16", then use dimmer to lower input voltage, to make rotor speed changes more obvious and adjust coil strands in series.
You are smart to follow me. I am not sure about all dimmers but some
of them will be able to handle start up and others will pop. Find a 6amp
fan dimmer and I think they go down to 90 volts of pulsed AC from a
triac.

I also looked on ebay for month till I found a good variac for cheap.

I ac motor engineers talk about SLIP and refer to the air gap, bottom
line is a line voltage these motors are fixed for one speed at full load.

The speed don't change but the volt drop will lower the motors ability to
go full load


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Variac-Transformer-Variable-AC-Voltage-Regulator-1000w-Metered-AC-110V-10Amp/202466501095?hash=item2f23f1a1e7:g:ypQAAOSw~QhbvyN K
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  #310  
Old 07-14-2019, 11:06 PM
Quantum_well Quantum_well is offline
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Some might.

Bound to be criticism but some might find this interesting.
https://youtu.be/xQ8kvHj_JSs
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  #311  
Old 07-15-2019, 05:15 AM
bistander bistander is offline
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PM alternators

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Love it!!!!

Apparently these guys from Missouri Wind and Power did NOT graduate from the Bistander school of generator design. If you listen to their video, they believe that cogging still exists at speed. In fact, they are so concerned about cogging that they designed an entirely NEW generator, with the help of an electrical engineer, just to REDUCE cogging. Not eliminate it, as we have shown you how to do, but just to reduce it. Gee bi, maybe you need to get out there to Missouri and clue these guys in that there is no cogging at speed and they have wasted thousands of dollars on that generator prototype. I’m sure they will appreciate your EXPERT advice. Are you there bi? Speak up now. Show us all how SMRT you are.

And NO, they didn’t design the whole machine just to overcome the fogging on start up. How do I KNOW? Research!
Hi Turion,

I guess you now accept that generator principles and physics used in machines with square or rectangular coils and magnets apply to yours using round poles. Remember this?

http://www.energeticforum.com/316715-post102.html

Here was your reply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
That’s like saying you have measured the performance of a car with square tires and are asking where do ROUND tires fit into the calculations. They don’t, because you have square tires on the car. But you keep on driving the car with square tires. You truly deserve it.
I doubt you took the time to download and read it. However I am interested what your research brought up. Can you provide and link or search phrase? Google was uncooperative. Missouri Jeff had a nice looking stator core. More representative of the machines on which I worked. I don't recall ever doing a round poles machine. Most used around 40 to 50 coils. None had skews. Our markets didn't require cogging mitigation. I think our automotive division did skew the heater blower and wiper motors. Some use it, some don't. All I am saying is that "your magnetic neutralization" is worthless at 2800RPM, 2kw. It is merely a distraction.

Regards,

bi
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  #312  
Old 07-15-2019, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Our markets didn't require cogging middigation.

I think our automotive division did skew the heater blower and wiper motors. Some use it,
some don't. All I am saying is that

"your magnetic neutralization" is worthless at 2800RPM, 2kw. It is merely a distraction.

Regards,

bi
Duh "Our Markets wouldn't let us go outside the box, duh. Get a life
inside the subject matter which takes more brain matter, zero lenz
and zero drag plus zero cogging. What is this?

Mitigation is spelled wrong but it is a big word that you should be
so proud to have in your vocabulary. We can't have Lenz mitigation
my goodness no.

Turion is right again that these guys have figured out a way to stop
the huge cogging at speed as well as on start up. Good idea to use
twice as much copper and wound the right way, HUH? Right?

Poor Bi he tries so hard to chin up to the pro's, makes a good sound.
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  #313  
Old 07-15-2019, 10:39 AM
dragon dragon is offline
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They all used triangular poles to remove the cogging problem.



Skewing the stator slots was most likely a far less expensive alternative to having custom triangular magnets made.

Back in the 70's we modified the delco 10si by pressing out the shaft, removing the field coil and replacing it with ceramic magnets ( cheap speaker magnets ). It was about the only way to set up a DIY wind gen without having to run power up the pole to drive the field coil.

The purpose of lots of turns of smaller wire is to bring the voltage up so the transmission lines can be small diameter lines run into an MPPT controller then converted to what ever is required by the battery bank or grid tie.

In any case it's pretty much all basic design since the 1800's
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  #314  
Old 07-15-2019, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon View Post
T

The purpose of lots of turns of smaller wire is to bring the voltage up
The whole thing is bigger and looking at it the windings look thicker
too, plus double the copper. It's not just thinner wire in the same holes,
sorry can't go along with that even if you are a nice guy.
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  #315  
Old 07-15-2019, 11:52 AM
dragon dragon is offline
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Being a small unit they most likely have to use smaller wire with lots of turns to achieve a reasonable voltage level for transmission as well as making the best of the real estate available for the wire and keep the rpm's within a reasonable range for the blade design. With something that small their probably using blades that run in a TSR range of 7 to 9 which is pretty fast.

I started building 3 phase air core alternators in the late 90's. Much more efficient and very light weight. I used to have custom triangle magnets made, not for the cogging - specifically for the magnetic surface area over the round or rectangular to advantage the real estate for maximum copper. Still have a few hundred of these in a box I use for my own toys... The stators were designed for the lowest possible resistance as well as ultra low rpm operation.

Given this background I can see a few flaws in the solenoid style alternator design, I understand your reasoning for the design but with a few design tweaks you may end up in a much more efficient place.

The low Lenz design that I posted doesn't stop or lower the lenz force ( we need this for a powerful output ). What it does is divert the force away from the rotor - that is - because the magnets are stationary and the stator coils are stationary the Lenz force is diverted into the solid mount of the case. The rotor simply directs the polarity. There is still a slight force working on the rotor but most of the Lenz force is against the magnet and stator. I posted a video of the stator wound with 8 ga wire producing 28 amps in that small fan motor conversion. Even at very low rpm the current output is very high for it's size. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dordyphTKFs

In any case, I know you guys will figure it out... I'm simply a curious observer in your project.
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  #316  
Old 07-15-2019, 08:12 PM
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Hi all, ran some more tests today.
Moved the rotor magnet to core gap, to 1/16" and also flipped the core/coil around, so that the magnets are closer to the coil as they sweep through, because the other side has the 1" core protrusion.
It does seem to help with power production.
2 power channels, or 26 strands in series = 17.5 vac over 25 watt incandescent bulb and input watts stay the same.
1 power channel, or 13 strands in series = 47 vac over same 25 watt bulb and input watts increase.
So only getting about 1/2 watt through bulb, with 26 strands in series and input seems to stay the same.
And getting around 3.7 watts with 13 strands in series, though input increases then.

Motor cannot start without the magnet neutralization in place, it just sits there without it, so that's a more positive thing so far.
That's all for the moment.
Not sure this coil is doing it, or the rotor speed or magnet count is too low.
peace love light
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  #317  
Old 07-15-2019, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWatcher View Post
Hi all, ran some more tests today.

gap, to 1/16"

Motor cannot start without the magnet neutralization in place

..................count is too low.??????????????
You are where I am. Where is that? learning to match flux or strong
magnets with the core size and type.

Test for core material.

Take a paper clip and set it on the core end right after running it for
a few minutes. If the paper clip stays on the core you have a magnet
instead of a core.

Suggestion. Take an old microwave oven (MOT) apart by grinding off
the factory welds. Taking the "E" section off of the base. The base welds
can be ground and you will get some grain oriented steel that will
measure 4" long X 7/8" then using an old knife find the number of
leafs you want for say a thickness of 7/8" and strike the back of the
knife with a hammer gently. Tap each side til your block pops off.

Or I think Turion uses buck shot forced tightly into a tube with epoxy.

I have not experimented with wire cores so I don't know. All I use is the
state of the art transformer steel. I am about to try 25awg wire but
know nothing yet. I am where you are, trying to find combinations of
core material to strong magnets to see what i can generate in the way
of power output.

Excellent to hear the magnet that is set in opposition the attraction
side at the core is working enough to get it running.

You need to find the null and you should already be seeing huge
speed up at 26 serial strands. You will need to lower the drive voltage
on your ac induction motor to see small changes.

For instance, with my 5 amp induction motor, it was so powerful at
120vac that the amps were about the same but I noticed little effects.

Or you could put a big pulley on a DC scooter motor and belt up.
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  #318  
Old 07-16-2019, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon View Post
Being a small unit they most likely have to use smaller wire with lots of turns to achieve a reasonable voltage level for transmission as well as making the best of the real estate available for the wire and keep the rpm's within a reasonable range for the blade design. With something that small their probably using blades that run in a TSR range of 7 to 9 which is pretty fast.

I started building 3 phase air core alternators in the late 90's. Much more efficient and very light weight. I used to have custom triangle magnets made, not for the cogging - specifically for the magnetic surface area over the round or rectangular to advantage the real estate for maximum copper. Still have a few hundred of these in a box I use for my own toys... The stators were designed for the lowest possible resistance as well as ultra low rpm operation.

Given this background I can see a few flaws in the solenoid style alternator design, I understand your reasoning for the design but with a few design tweaks you may end up in a much more efficient place.

The low Lenz design that I posted doesn't stop or lower the lenz force ( we need this for a powerful output ). What it does is divert the force away from the rotor - that is - because the magnets are stationary and the stator coils are stationary the Lenz force is diverted into the solid mount of the case. The rotor simply directs the polarity. There is still a slight force working on the rotor but most of the Lenz force is against the magnet and stator. I posted a video of the stator wound with 8 ga wire producing 28 amps in that small fan motor conversion. Even at very low rpm the current output is very high for it's size. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dordyphTKFs

In any case, I know you guys will figure it out... I'm simply a curious observer in your project.
Thicker wire and more of it. Windings set on angle.



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  #319  
Old 07-16-2019, 01:42 AM
dragon dragon is offline
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Much thicker stator core also.... the 10si core on the right was also hand wound with small wire where it would normally be wound with 18 ga or larger. Most of my 100 amp units had 6 turns per coil of heavy wire but they needed 2000+ rpm to make 14 volts. Their trying to get a much higher voltage at lower rpm so their most likely using 18 to 20ga or smaller. I've hand wound hundreds of those 10si cores. Got a big basket of parts left over from those days and still have a couple complete units on the shelf.

I've designed a simplex motor using some parts out of one that I'm machining parts for in my spare time currently.

What would be interesting for you guys to test would be a simple air core coil following some simple rules. I don't know the magnets your using but I'm assuming their the standard round units. So, the coil center must be the same diameter as the magnet, the width of the coil legs should not exceed the width of the magnet - for instance the total diameter shouldn't be more than 3 x the diameter of the magnet and the magnet should drop through the center. You want to keep the thickness of the coil about the same thickness of the magnet or slightly larger - the thicker you go the less flux saturation on the rear of the coil.

Figure out how many turns you have with your current set up and try to match that with the largest wire that you have real estate for following the parameters above. This is just a simple air core coil which wouldn't take very long to make. Run the same tests your currently doing with both the coils.

Chances are you won't need as many turns per coil to achieve the same output voltage so matching the turns may be a bit higher. Since there is no iron you can close the gap for clearance only - there will be no cogging and start up will be instantaneous. Since your using only one pole - only one coil leg at a time will produce an output as the magnet passes over. This will still show an AC wave output as it passes each side of the coil. Using NSNS layout the output will be double plus as long as the NS are positioned over the coil legs.

Just a simple low cost comparison....

Edit: if this isn't clear let me know and I'll draw a diagram of the layout and coil sizes.
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  #320  
Old 07-16-2019, 02:06 AM
dragon dragon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
The rotor on the machine I am putting back together has 12 of the 1"x 3/4 magnet pairs (magnets stuck to each other through a tiny sliver of the rotor that didn't get machined away in the center of each of the magnet holes. The cores for the coils I am using now are 1/16 steel rod like the last several coils I have built, although I DO intend to try two ferrite core coils using the powdered ferrite mixed with epoxy to compare output and speed up under load. The coils are wound with 24 strands in parallel, each 125' long of #23 with 8 strands connected in series.

I put a REALLY weak, really SMALL ceramic magnet on the back of each coil core, so that the cores do not become magnetized. It is all about the CHANGE in flux to create electricity. I haven't experimented to see if this actually contributes to the coil output, but that would be interesting if it DID. It DOES keep the cores from getting magnetized because the rotor magnets are of the opposite polarity.
So thats how many turns on the core before you series the 8 together? And, your output voltage ( open circuit )... and your short circuit current if you have that as well... Ok, one more edit.... the resistance of the coil as it's used for the output ( 8 in series I'm assuming ).
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  #321  
Old 07-16-2019, 02:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon View Post
So thats how many turns on the core before you series the 8 together? And, your output voltage ( open circuit )... and your short circuit current if you have that as well... Ok, one more edit.... the resistance of the coil as it's used for the output ( 8 in series I'm assuming ).
Thanks dragon for bringing me up to speed on your past winding schemes.
Very interesting stuff indeed.

Dave uses a 1" core and winds 24 strands in parallel onto it, some call
litzed coils. Now with 24 wires going in and 24 wires going out he takes
sets of 8 and this means he has 3 sets of 8. 3 X 8 = 24.

8 wires or coils are wired up one after another or in series. Since each
wire going in and out on his coil is 125" a piece he get 8 X 125 = 1000'
This is Dave's favorite number of feet for his design that does not speed
up nor slow down (more importantly) the rotor thus no affect on drive
input.

Since Dave has 3 sets of 8 coils he wires up in series whatever he gets
out of one set of coils can be multiplied by 3X. The max rating for 23AWG
wire when used as coils is I believe 700ma Dave stops at 500ma and
having 3 channels or 3 sets of 8 coils he winds in series gives Dave
a 1.5 amp or 1500ma output for a complete coil in his set up. 12 of
these in total are used to decorate his little black box.

I don't know anything about core material other than electrical steel
except for what Dave said he tried. Dave's core rods work tho seem to
be suffering some saturation effects long term.

Do you understand why I am using a "C" core? Do you? You need to
think about it. The "C" core (Not the material the shape) geometry
is subject to both NORTH and SOUTH at the same time coming off
the magnet. At TDC (Top Dead Center) the electrical winding magnetic
energy having a certain polarity, reverses and both ends
(Not just one end) of the "C" do a toggle . Flux goes back and forth or
flux is traded back and forth almost a form of recycling.
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  #322  
Old 07-16-2019, 11:06 AM
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Thanks Turion, looking forward for the details

Mikey, thanks for the info. I'm looking for the total turns of the bundle wound on the core so I can ascertain the total turns once its wired in series. Also the open voltage, short circuit current, at what rpm and resistance of the coil ( maybe a resistance reading on one length of wire - the rest could be calculated ). I do understand the C core approach, very similar to a basic magneto alternator. Remember though, to much iron is much better than not enough when it comes to forming magnetic paths.
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  #323  
Old 07-16-2019, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon View Post
Thanks Turion, looking forward for the details

Mikey, thanks for the info. I'm looking for the total turns of the bundle wound on the core so I can ascertain the total turns
1" core and about a 6" length for 125'? Easy to calculate
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  #324  
Old 07-16-2019, 10:38 PM
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Ok, so around 280 turns with approx 6 layers.... 3.2 ohm ea for each wire ( .135 ohm all in parallel - this looks nicer for efficiency ) ... 25+ ohms with 2240 turns total per series of 8.

Just need open circuit voltage and short circuit current at running rpm....
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Old 07-17-2019, 01:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon View Post
Ok, so around 280 turns with approx 6 layers.... 3.2 ohm ea for each wire ( .135 ohm all in parallel - this looks nicer for efficiency ) ... 25+ ohms with 2240 turns total per series of 8.

Just need open circuit voltage and short circuit current at running rpm....
Let me think...........
Dave fills a 3" dia spool so the average dia = 2" X 3.14= 6.25" per turn
125'X 12" = 1500"/ 6.26" turns = 240T

Not sure on spool length.
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  #326  
Old 07-17-2019, 04:02 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is offline
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#23awg copper is 20ohms per 1000 feet for a single series connected
circuit. This is for 1 and 3 such circuits are then all connected in parallel
to each other giving a total

Rt = 1/R1 + 1/R2 + 1/R3 = 6.667 ohms right again.
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  #327  
Old 07-17-2019, 04:48 AM
bistander bistander is offline
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Not quite

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post
#23awg copper is 20ohms per 1000 feet for a single series connected
circuit. This is for 1 and 3 such circuits are then all connected in parallel
to each other giving a total

Rt = 1/R1 + 1/R2 + 1/R3 = 6.667 ohms right again.
It may be the correct value but your equation is wrong.

1/Rt = 1/R1 + 1/R2 + 1/R3 + ..... 1/Rn.

bi
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  #328  
Old 07-17-2019, 10:31 AM
NROC NROC is offline
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The value is right,

The equation should just be 1/(1/R1 + 1/R2 + 1/R3)

All the Best
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  #329  
Old 07-17-2019, 03:25 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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Cogging again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
...
And here's an interesting bit from an old video where I only had six of the 12 coils on the machine because the AMP draw with the coils UNLOADED was like 18-19 amps WITH JUST SIX COILS in place. Why so high when WITHOUT coils in place it is less that 12 amps if "cogging makes no difference at speed" as bi has claimed?? I'll give you a clue. It's because he doesn't know what he is talking about. Is that a big enough clue?
https://youtu.be/A3DakXN-cR8
Hi Turion,

I assume by "coils" you mean coils with cores. So you have 12A draw on drive motor with no cores in place. And then with six cores in place you see 18-19A. Same RPM. You blame this on cogging. The increase in drive motor current (and power to turn the rotor) is NOT due to cogging. Cogging has negligible effect in power at speed. The Eddy current and hysteresis losses in the cores are responsible for the increased power needed to turn the rotor at speed.

Regards,

bi
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  #330  
Old 07-17-2019, 06:10 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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Cogging again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Then why does the amp draw go DIWNwhen I use magnetic neutralization,which you claim doesn’t work.
It did not on your last test or on Sky's.

And I do not, did not, claim that your "magnetic neutralization" does not work. It appears to mitigate cogging. But that is a non-factor to power required at speed.

bi
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