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  #271  
Old 07-02-2019, 09:20 AM
Quantum_well Quantum_well is online now
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Aul.

Dave,
in that video your man is achieving about
93% efficiency.
The only time speed up under load would have any significance is if your man on the video could show it on top of the 93% he's already getting.
In other words, if you can't exceed your generator's
peak efficiency, you're gaining nothing.
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  #272  
Old 07-02-2019, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantum_well View Post
your man is achieving about

your man on the video could show it on top of the 93%
Who's man, Dave ain't got a man showing anything. The people
here are beginners.

You are afraid that this is going to go OU. Trembling in your boots
because it would show the level of blindness that still exists on the
simple statements being made here. Unless you can acknowledge
these simple ideas you can never be or have an open mind.

Quantum,
Our purpose here is to show TWO very specific things. First, that magnetic neutralization can cancel out the increased amp draw put on a motor when it turns a rotor with magnets on it and those magnets go past the iron in a generator coil core. To show that we must show the amp draw of a motor turning the rotor with NO coil (and core) in place, WITH a coil (and core) in place, and then finally with magnetic neutralization in place. Sky's choice of motor makes that more difficult for him, but he is only trying to prove this to himself.

The second thing we are trying to show is that a properly wound coil will speed up under load and NOT reduce the rpm of the motor turning the rotor or increase the amp draw of the motor turning the rotor.
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  #273  
Old 07-02-2019, 11:35 AM
bistander bistander is offline
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Terminology

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Originally Posted by Turion View Post
bi,
Thank you so much for the education on the difference between a coil and a core. I never would have understood the difference without your lucid and meaningful contribution. One again, nit picking is all you are able to contribute. But then, that's all I ever expect from you so I am not disappointed. As far as I remember from the generators I have built, all the coils I have made contained a core. ...
Dave
Hi Turion,

You used to differentiate between coils and cores.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
...
All three of these coils would speed up under load.
10 strands of #23 at 80 feet in length AIR CORE
10 strands of #23 at 160 feet in length AIR CORE
3 strands of #23 800 feet in length IRON CORE

When I pulled the iron core out of the last one and ran it, it did NOT speed up under load anymore.
...
Dave
I guess you just forgot. Nit pick? What's wrong with using correct terminology?

Let's not distract this episode of testing and data sharing. Please run these tests on your machine.

Regards,

bi
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Last edited by bistander; 07-02-2019 at 11:45 AM. Reason: Typo
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  #274  
Old 07-02-2019, 01:53 PM
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Contribution

bi,
When your only contribution to forward progress is to detract from the discussion of substantive information to nit pick terms, I see no value in your contribution and in fact, see them as a detriment. But thatís just my opinion.
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  #275  
Old 07-02-2019, 02:30 PM
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Boxes within boxes

Quantum,
Let me see if I can put your concern in ďtermsĒ everyone here can understand. So bi should have a field day with this one. Efficiency of an electric motor is determined by dividing the mechanical output by the electrical input. A motor has a load rating. When it is under very little load it is very inefficient when this measurement or comparison is taken. It performs BEST when under (usually) about 75% of its rated load. That is when it is most efficient. So what you are saying is that unless we can show that when the motor is under a 75% load and we introduce magnetic neutralization it performs more efficiently, we have not proven anything. Is that correct?

My concern is that you are trapped in a box, and unable to think outside it. Here is why. I said we needed three measurements. We need to measure the amp draw of the motor when no coil is in place. We need to measure the amp draw of the motor when the coil (with core) is in place and we need to measure the amp draw of the motor when magnetic neutralization is in place. What we are attempting to show is that the magnetic neutralization has a desired effect. NOT that it makes the motor more efficient, and here is why...

My machine with 12 coils in place is run by an MY1020 razor scooter motor. With NO magnetic neutralization in place that motor pulls over 100 amps on startup and requires over 37 amps to turn the rotor. These numbers far exceed the rating of the motor, because the load I have it under, turning those magnets past all those iron cores, far exceeds the rated work load FOR THIS MOTOR. The motor will soon burn up. Now with magnetic neutralization in place the motor pulls just over 30 amps on startup and runs on 12 amps. Magnetic neutralization is the difference between a motor that operates well within its performance specs and a smoking pike of slag. Your choice. ALL of this has been stated before. Do I care whether magnetic neutralization allows the motor to run at peak efficiency? NO! That is not its purpose. I get REALLY tired of all you experts who havenít built ANYTHING like this generator telling me what is possible and what tests I need to run and how my machine should perform. Your expertise is getting in the way of practical application of concepts you really do NOT understand.
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  #276  
Old 07-02-2019, 04:20 PM
Quantum_well Quantum_well is online now
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A bit of fun.

Look.....krpm!

Screenshot_20190702-171454.png
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  #277  
Old 07-02-2019, 04:21 PM
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A bit of fun.

Seems unbelievable, 10,000 watts @half a million rpm!
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  #278  
Old 07-02-2019, 07:37 PM
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Hi all, well there was a difference.
Killiwatt meter says:
With just the rotor = 1.54 amps, 138 watts
With core added = 1.59 amps, 144 watts
With core and magnet neutralizing = 1.59 amps, 144 watts.

Also, it is a 1/3 HP motor and the core to rotor magnet gap is 1/8".
Not sure what to make of it at the moment, will start on winding the coil now.
peace love light
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  #279  
Old 07-02-2019, 09:15 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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Kool

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWatcher View Post
Hi all, well there was a difference.
Killiwatt meter says:
With just the rotor = 1.54 amps, 138 watts
With core added = 1.59 amps, 144 watts
With core and magnet neutralizing = 1.59 amps, 144 watts.

Also, it is a 1/3 HP motor and the core to rotor magnet gap is 1/8".
Not sure what to make of it at the moment, will start on winding the coil now.
peace love light
Thanks Sky,

Only a 6 watt increase. Not a lot. The 138 watts is likely close to the no-load power of the drill press alone. That rotor is nicely finished and smooth so as not to have much aerodynamic drag at that RPM and you have no additional bearings or friction.

Good data points. The type of test you'd want to use to evaluate core material.

Talking about just a few percent difference in data points from a single set isn't really enough to draw conclusions. Turion can comment on the air gap. But it is good to record what it is for future reference.

Regards,

bi
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  #280  
Old 07-02-2019, 09:40 PM
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Sky, I wouldnít worry about the magnetic neutralizing effect with just one coil in place. It probably isnít worth your time. If you eventually put together a bigger machine and you start to see your motor bogging down just because of the number of coils you have in place you will understand why and what to do about it. I put 3 coils on my machine this morning and only saw the amp draw go up .7 amps but I KNOW when I have12 coils in place it averages out to more than two amps per coil increase. I am wondering if there isnít a curve to this like there is to motor performance???? Never thought of that before. Will have to check that out as I put my big machineback together.
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  #281  
Old 07-02-2019, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWatcher View Post
Hi all, well there was a difference.
Killiwatt meter says:
With just the rotor = 1.54 amps, 138 watts
With core added = 1.59 amps, 144 watts
With core and magnet neutralizing = 1.59 amps, 144 watts.

Also, it is a 1/3 HP motor and the core to rotor magnet gap is 1/8".
Not sure what to make of it at the moment, will start on winding the coil now.
peace love light
Hey Sky I am keeping this post. 1/3hp is good. My 1/3HP dryer motors
take 5.5amps running with a load of laundry in them. This is standard
1/3hp motor run load amps. The washers run 9.5amps and are induction
motors just like you have there and are called 1/2hp motors.

Do you see an inspection plate.

The opposing magnets puts into his rig are done with a CNC machine
are the holes are cut dead on plus all magnets are pressed in straight.

This is not as easy as you think to get the counterbalancing magnets
right on. I found if a slight angle on the opposition magnet (1 degree)
faces toward the other magnet as it approaches will slow it down.

Remember my slow moving wheel I built this winter? play with it by
changing it's angle and remember each magnet is different from the
next one slightly. In my mind I think to use a smaller dia magnet
that is LONG. This way you can SEE the angle and still get enough
flux.
Your amp draw shows the same thing as I found what too. Got work
to do on finding the right combinations of magnets and core sizes..

You are where I am.
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  #282  
Old 07-02-2019, 10:34 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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Some more data?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
... I put 3 coils on my machine this morning and only saw the amp draw go up .7 amps
...
It'd be nice to see more data on your test. But let's say it was a 24V DC motor powering your generator. Then 0.7A at 24V is 16.8W. Or 5.6 watts per core. About same as Sky's result. No idea if RPM was close, or air gap. And assuming your coils had iron cores.

You can generate data to develop a curve, say using RPM as the independent variable. And then do a family of curves for say, number of cores, or gap distance. When you have things like this plotted out it becomes much easier to see trends and make informed design decisions.

Regards,

bi
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  #283  
Old 07-02-2019, 10:40 PM
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Data

Didnít have time to record all the data I wanted. My wifeís office is right next to my shop and she is working from home this week so I have to be quiet. That means not running prototypes when she is working. That leaves morning while she is out walking or after she goes to bed. Will try and get the rest of the data I wanted. I did shoot a video,but put the camera down while I put coils in the machine and forgot to record the rpm with the coils in place, so just need to start over in the morning.
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  #284  
Old 07-03-2019, 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Turion View Post

Tomorrow I am going to drag out the three coil machine I built and run it with a power supply. I should be able to show amp draw of the motor without the coils (and cores) in place and WITH the coils (and cores) in place as well as the rpm of the motor in both situations. If I get time, I will hook it up to a load and show the output from a single coil (and core) and the speed up under load, which affects both the rpm of the motor and the amp draw of the motor. No promises though. I have a full day tomorrow.
You sure have a lot of versions, can't wait, hurry up

I had one question bugging me. Do you remember off hand the approx
amp draw on a 24vdc scooter motor just free wheeling, nothing connected.

Is it 2 amps? or less? Did you do any builds with a 24vdc scooter motor?
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  #285  
Old 07-03-2019, 03:17 AM
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24 volt scooter motor

I have only used the MY1016 which is 12 volt and the MY1020 which is 36 volt. Running the MY1020 today with just the rotor on it at 13 volts I was pulling 1.1 amps at 1800 rpm. With three coils in place it went up to 1.7-1.8. Those are the numbers from the video I took that I just watched. Don’t know what the rpm was with 3 coils.

But this is just a rotor right on the motor shaft, and s small rotor at that. My big rotor would be at least twice the weight and likely four times as heavy with all the extra magnets. This also does not include the two big plastic spacers to hold the rotor steady, the long shaft with bearings on each end that cause drag. So you can’t compare the two machines.
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  #286  
Old 07-03-2019, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Turion View Post
I have only used the MY1016 which is 12 volt and the MY1020 which is 36 volt. Running the MY1020 today with just the rotor on it at 13 volts I was pulling 1.1 amps at 1800 rpm. With three coils in place it went up to 1.7-1.8. Those are the numbers from the video I took that I just watched. Donít know what the rpm was with 3 coils.
Okay thanks, the video's I did were a 24vdc my1016 running that big
10" steel wheel with 20 magnets and the table saw arbor 5/8" shaft
and bearings running off a power supply was 2 amps at 20vdc the rpm
was a little to slow.

I also got a 1.1 amp draw on my 24vdc motor at 14volts. I like these
tiny efficient motors. The dishwasher motor took 85vac at 2 amps big
difference but the rpm's were very high at over 3400 rpm's.

I was thinking of using a higher voltage scooter motor controller to bump
it up to 30vdc to get the extra rpm's.
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  #287  
Old 07-03-2019, 01:17 PM
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Sky, I wouldn’t worry about the magnetic neutralizing effect with just one coil in place. It probably isn’t worth your time. If you eventually put together a bigger machine and you start to see your motor bogging down just because of the number of coils you have in place you will understand why and what to do about it. I put 3 coils on my machine this morning and only saw the amp draw go up .7 amps but I KNOW when I have12 coils in place it averages out to more than two amps per coil increase. I am wondering if there isn’t a curve to this like there is to motor performance???? Never thought of that before. Will have to check that out as I put my big machineback together.
It doesn't really make much sense to me to add any neutralization... The magnet and core relation has an equal amount of force entering and leaving. As it enters it adds energy to the motion, as it's leaving it removes it - a balance. Adding the neutralization magnet you have the same situation - it has an equal amount of force to overcome as it enters the magnetic field as it does to be pushed away as it leaves - in both cases the net result is zero. This would explain the results of Sky's test.

It seems overcoming the initial lock is the only problem where staggering the cores would reduce the torque required on the initial start up. Once it's up to speed and the coils are producing an output you have a different set of rules to contend with. The cogging caused by Lenz can also be reduced by phasing the coils ( single phase would cog or vibrate far more than a 3 phase coil arrangement ). For instance 4 magnets and 3 coils.

Using the monopole layout ( all south or all north facing ) you've reduced the load the rotor would see so it would appear to need less input to drive the arrangement. In reality the reduction in output is the reason it's much easier to drive the rotor. Not only because of the monopole but the reduced (open) magnetic path from the basic layout. It would probably benefit the unit to use ceramic8 magnets instead of the neo's. Neo's have an extremely powerful field but it's tight to the surface and requires close tolerances to utilize it's field to the fullest benifit or use them in a closed path where they would enhance the field in an air gap ( such as an air core axial flux alternator ). Ceramic magnets have a very large field - although much weaker - they have the ability to extend their field into the core much more evenly ( without over saturation). In quite a few circumstances the ceramics can out perform the neos - again it depends on how they're used.

It would be interesting to debate where and how the energy in excess of the original source is derived. This might have more value than numbers read from any meter.
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  #288  
Old 07-03-2019, 03:26 PM
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Thought

Dragon,
You are entitled to your opinion, but I have built this generator with ceramic magnets and neos and the power production from the neos is much greater. My FIRST version used ceramic, and then ceramic super poles, because I was following the work of John B. I have pictures and video of that build. Sometimes I think John sent us down one path instead of another to keep us SAFE rather than because it was the correct path. He only built toys until he built the Ferris wheel.

You are correct that the action of the magnet approaching the core and the magnet leaving the core cancel each other out. But I HAVE to believe there is a moment in time when the two are perfectly aligned, when the magnet is neither approaching nor leaving, and the attraction is GREATEST that adversely affects the performance of the motor turning the rotor. It is the only explanation for the increased amp draw of the motor when a coil is placed near the rotor. Well, maybe not the ONLY explanation, but certainly a possible one. The more coils you have, the greater the effect As each builds on the previous loss in a negative curve. It is also the only explanation for why my big machine requires an additional 24 amps to run when all the coils are in place unloaded.

By the way, if those two forces ARE canceling each other out, and that moment I spoke of does NOT exist, why would a magnet on a rotor lock up on the coil core AT ALL. It should spin right on by. But it does NOT as you know. If you spin the rotor slowly by hand you are actually GIVING it momentum, and the core attracts the magnet speeding it up, but then it hits that moment of "lock" that kills all the momentum as well as the acceleration the attraction caused. And THEN you get to deal with the fact that the core is trying to attract the magnet as it is leaving. Spend some time spinning a rotor by hand and you will see. Now with ENOUGH forward momentum (spin it hard enough) you can overcome this lock, but that required ENERGY in the form of amps to do, and the drag or lock was still there and still impacts the performance of the motor. Just because you went faster didn't make it go away. It just happened quicker.
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Last edited by Turion; 07-03-2019 at 04:27 PM.
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  #289  
Old 07-03-2019, 04:40 PM
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Dragon,
You are entitled to your opinion, but I have built this generator with ceramic magnets and neos and the power production from the neos is much greater. My FIRST version used ceramic, and then ceramic super poles, because I was following the work of John B. I have pictures and video of that build. Sometimes I think John sent us down one path instead of another to keep us SAFE rather than because it was the correct path. He only built toys until he built the Ferris wheel.

You are correct that the action of the magnet approaching the core and the magnet leaving the core cancel each other out. But I HAVE to believe there is a moment in time when the two are perfectly aligned, when the magnet is neither approaching nor leaving, and the attraction is GREATEST that adversely affects the performance of the motor turning the rotor. It is the only explanation for the increased amp draw of the motor when a coil is placed near the rotor. Well, maybe not the ONLY explanation, but certainly a possible one. The more coils you have, the greater the effect As each builds on the previous loss in a negative curve. It is also the only explanation for why my big machine requires an additional 24 amps to run when all the coils are in place unloaded.

By the way, if those two forces ARE canceling each other out, and that moment I spoke of does NOT exist, why would a magnet on a rotor lock up on the coil core AT ALL. It should spin right on by. But it does NOT as you know. If you spin the rotor slowly by hand you are actually GIVING it momentum, and the core attracts the magnet speeding it up, but then it hits that moment of "lock" that kills all the momentum as well as the acceleration the attraction caused. And THEN you get to deal with the fact that the core is trying to attract the magnet as it is leaving. Spend some time spinning a rotor by hand and you will see. Now with ENOUGH forward momentum (spin it hard enough) you can overcome this lock, but that required ENERGY in the form of amps to do, and the drag or lock was still there and still impacts the performance of the motor. Just because you went faster didn't make it go away. It just happened quicker.
I'm not criticizing what your attempting to do, simply clarifying the forces and their reactions as it applies to what your doing....

Most of the "lock" is caused by the separated cores. Each core/magnet wants desperately to balance all unequal forces. The magnet in one direction or the other will always move toward the core to lock it in place -restoring a natural balance. As the cores become closer together the smaller these forces become. As with a normal motor or generator the cores have small slots for wires and these separations cause a magnetizing/demagnetizing effect as it passes over each separation - small but noticeable vibration and torque as it rotates. A magnetic field (rotor) in a closed iron circle will float freely with no cog, all forces between the magnet and core are in balance. ( it will experience eddy current forces as it rotates, these of course are different forces than what cause the cog effect ).

The reason I mentioned the ceramics is because they have the ability of reaching out to more than one core, thus reducing the effect. Since neo's have such a small external field they are more prone to grabbing what is closest and holding hard because of their intensity. ( a very small distance for the action/reaction to occur ). They will produce a higher output but at what cost to the overall efficiency of the unit...
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  #290  
Old 07-03-2019, 05:28 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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Viewpoint

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... there is a moment in time when the two are perfectly aligned, when the magnet is neither approaching nor leaving, ...
... it hits that moment of "lock" ...
Hi Turion,

Let's call that position the sticky point. And think of it as a position. Or a location. A point in space rather than a point in time. (Please leave space time discussion for another day, thank you)

At this sticky point, there is a force, correct? That force resists efforts to move from the sticky point either the core or the magnet. Work and therefore energy is defined as force applied for a distance, or simplified, force times distance. Since this force at the sticky point is only at a point, there is zero distance associated with it. So the force at the sticky point is there but only there and represents zero energy and therefore no power to move past.

Likely not many will buy this explanation, but there it is. I would like to see more of these types of tests. That is, measurements taken at various steps in the construction process.

Thanks to dragon for chiming in.

Regards,

bi
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  #291  
Old 07-03-2019, 05:54 PM
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Dragon,
I did not take what you did as criticism. I will be the first to admit that I donít know as much as most people on this forum about motors, magnets or electronics. What I DO understand is effects I see on my bench. When I see an effect I attempt to manipulate it to my advantage. In this case, I am running a motor at 24 volts 12 amps turning a load that, without the presence of the opposing magnets would, as I have seen and demonstrated by burning up several motors, cost me more in amp draw than the motor, rated at 26 amps, can handle. I have achieved the effect I want. Why or how it happens is up to someone much smarter than me to figure out. I donít care.
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Old 07-03-2019, 07:16 PM
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Hi turion, I think it is because as you add more cores, yet you still have the same rotor mass, it cannot store enough rotational energy to efficiently absorb each attraction to the cores.
This then causes an imbalance and more amp draw.
The neutralization method relieves that and helps with start up amp draw, so is a good passive method.
Though if one did not want the added complexity and cost of the magnet neutralization, we could have a small starter motor and then an appropriate sized flywheel attahced to the shaft, to absorb the needed kinetic energy, to cause the perfect cancelling of magnet to core attraction.
peace love light
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  #293  
Old 07-03-2019, 08:13 PM
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D But it does NOT as you know. If you spin the rotor slowly by hand you are actually GIVING it momentum, and the core attracts the magnet speeding it up, but then it hits that moment of "lock" that kills all the momentum as well as the acceleration the attraction caused

Exactly the right thinking, what about inertia, what about gravity, how
about momentum? You can't talk pull in and pull out = 0. These guys
are rambling, keep going Dave.

it's the same ole hat, the electrical freaks ONLY focus on charge and
the physics guys TALK about forces and each group thinks this stuff
exists in a world all buy itself when the project is submersed in all of
it, including what we can't explain and create cute little formula for.

You want TAKE TWO? Naw they don't want take two, just build it and
quite generalizing you sound helpless. Shouldn't work? And it does.
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  #294  
Old 07-03-2019, 08:53 PM
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Sky,
That won’t work. Tried that. Got my rotor up to over 4,000 with a big flywheel, which I still have. Added coils one at a time and the amp draw climbed.

Edit: I should point out it took a WHILE to get up there, but it got there.
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  #295  
Old 07-03-2019, 09:12 PM
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Hi turion, proves theorizing is only worth so much, the bench is where it is at, thanks turion.
peace love light
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  #296  
Old 07-03-2019, 10:34 PM
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Question

Just imagine how early record players worked with different speeds for different types of records.
The applied energies upon the wax/plastic allowed an analog storage of information that could crudely be used over and over until something broke.
One speed replaced the previous until tape became King and then CD format and now USB.
The record player is still in use for a reason.
Analog is best but a backup CD is nice.

Friction from air molecules?
What mix of neo magnet and what number of strength are they?
N52 is what is left on my repair work in progress.
When the core is glued into Woodstock the magnetic push/pull can be heard vibrating through the wood.
Energy Frequency Vibration.
The magnets reach to the bottom with their strength,
this causes a more efficient power use and your circuits run cold.
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  #297  
Old 07-04-2019, 02:45 AM
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Hey PotHead can you go over that again? On how you are able to
get your circuits to run cold? You say magnets do this?

I would be interested in the coil configuration and magnets.

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  #298  
Old 07-04-2019, 02:57 AM
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Take Two

All you super smart boys who think they know and no time for the bench
time to look at these pages. One of many, plz explain.

Conclusion and Discussion

VIII. It has been suggested by the late Professor Eric Laithwaite that there must
exist an active spin-induced force and a spin-induced inductance, both of which
remain unrecognized in classical mechanics.


https://www.researchgate.net/publication/283225757_Magnetic_Repulsion_and_the_Gyroscopic_Fo rce

The consequence of confusing the situation by the introduction of a rotating
frame of reference is that there prevails a further misinformed belief that the
centrifugal force is merely a product of the rotation of the frame of reference
itself rather than a product of the absolute rotation of the particle relative to the
inertial frame. The latter error leads to the bizarre notion that a particle at rest,
when observed from a rotating frame of reference, experiences a fictitious
outward centrifugal force in the radial direction, even though circular motion
can only induce transverse artefacts. This discrepancy is then patched up with
an even more bizarre argument involving a radial Coriolis force. The argument
runs that since the stationary object, as observed from the rotating frame of
reference, is seen due to its inertia to trace out a circular path, there must exist a
fictitious centripetal force acting upon it which can be justified as being the
resultant of the outward radial fictitious centrifugal force and an inward radial
fictitious Coriolis force.


YOU GOT THAT?
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Last edited by BroMikey; 07-04-2019 at 03:03 AM.
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  #299  
Old 07-04-2019, 05:25 AM
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Terms again?

bi,
When the rotor reaches that sticky point, you have all kinds of forces happening at the same time, unless you are breaking this down into units of time that are so small as to be immeasurable for testing. You have rotation, momentum, attraction, friction and who knows WHAT else. I am not going to even attempt to try to measure the interaction of all these variables. I am going to look at an effect and use it to my advantage.

I KNOW when my rotor is turned by an MY1020 running on 36 volts with a specific number of a specific size magnets on the rotor and a specific number of coils in place, that the amp draw of the motor is so high it burns up the motor. I know if I put magnets in a specific place and adjust them, my amp draw is lowered to 12 amps at 36 volts. That is all I NEED to know to make my machine run. I don't need to spend time on all this other stuff. I know what works. If people want to argue about how it works or why it works or even whether or not it DOES work, that's up to them. I don't care. I know what I know. I have watched it run hundreds of times. Nothing anyone says is going to convince me that I have not seen what I have seen no mater what they say or how hard they try.

And bi, if you are saying no energy is required to move past the sticky point, which is what you APPEAR to be saying, I would argue, just for the fun of it, that the definition of work may be incorrect. It is defined as force over distance, as you said. I would argue that it is force over time. You cannot move a distance without the elapse of time. Work, however, can be done with no movement over distance. As an example, stand up against the wall of a very tall building and push as hard against that wall as you are able for several minutes. There was force, there was time, but there was NO distance. Just because the wall didn't move doesn't mean you did not do any work. I'm pretty sure after a few hours of that, you would agree that work was done. Or not.
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  #300  
Old 07-04-2019, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
There was force, there was time, but there was NO distance. Just because the wall didn't move doesn't mean you did not do any work. I'm pretty sure after a few hours of that, you would agree that work was done. Or not.
They are not going to comment on any questioned posed to them just like
are unable to address the fundamental design laid out flawlessly. All
they do is quote out of specific 200 year old confused so called SCIENCE?
books as it is easy to pick and chose text for defense. It's all about
"I TOLD YA SO" "I AM MR. RIGHT" the schools are full of these.

Like John B. always said it is not science that is being taught today it is
"HERE ARE THE ANSWERS SAY THAT AND YOU WILL PASS"

Most of the students are in a state of exhaustion in their teen years
from public school brainwashing schedules of overwhelming floods
of garbage that is confusing and or untrue. As the text book evolve or
morph anyway the controllers determine.

In science, chemistry and physics there are many conflicts and everybody
talks about in the universities yet we are all suppose to gulp it all down
like GOSPEL.

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