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  #1  
Old 03-14-2019, 11:26 AM
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Mario Mario is offline
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Bedini's cap pulser

...Continued from the 3 battery generating system thread where we started talking about JB's cap pulser...

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Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
Mario,


No, on the front was a single garden starter battery - those things are ballpark around maybe 12ah. Being starter batteries, they of course don't have an amp hour rating, but ballpark can divide the CCA by 10 and that will give a ballpark. But over all the time using those things, they seem to be around a 12ah just from experience. That was the only thing on the front.



On the back, it was the 4 x 12v strings of those Korean war batteries that were constants. Those were ballpark around 12ah each for 48ah + another garden starter battery on the back at 12ah for 60ah total.



12 on front and 60 on back.



Korean war batteries stayed on the back and never got swapped. Just the garden starter batteries on front and back were swapped back and forth.


That's around 7-8 watts draw from the front battery at c20 but again a starter battery so the numbers don't exactly work out but close enough for ballpark estimates. The machine probably drew more. With one coil on either side of the rotor - I don't know. I'll measure the draw when I have time. A single coil SG with 7-8 power windings and a trigger draws around 20 watts ballpark. It's probably not too far from that for both coils on either side of the rotor.



There are ways to mimick the mechanical switch - Paul Babcock's switching circuit is probably the best ever designed, but no, use mechanical. There is something to the mechanical that allows for some extra radiant gains that I don't think can be had with solid state. If you have the Advanced SG book, the details on that switch are given.


Yes, the 3 battery / Tesla Switch type systems came way before this specific mechanical switch cap dump method I believe. I don't know if I'd look at it in terms of an evolution of what he was looking at - he just wanted to explore all methods possible.



We can dedicate another thread to this machine. I only brought it up because IF the constant batteries are something that can be used in the 3 battery system, even on the front end, it might be something that has benefit - I don't know.
Hi Aaron,

sorry, I had misunderstood the battery setup, I get it now.

About the switch, in the advanced SG book Peter lists the various switching methods, but he also says that the highest cop he'd seen was with John's latest programmed mosfet switching (which after him explaining what the wave looks like I have no problem replicating) so I really don't know if a physical switch or electronic is better...

The switching device he lists has 40 milliohms. The ones I have are 3.7 or 7.2 milliohms, with max 60ns rise/fall times.

I believe John's pulser has 2 trifilar coils, so separate pick up coils? So the 2 mosfets I've seen in the EFTV video could simply be two MJL's running the 2 SG coils, or a Cole switch running them in parallel, don't know.

cheers,
Mario
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Last edited by Mario; 03-14-2019 at 11:36 AM.
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  #2  
Old 03-14-2019, 11:45 PM
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Aaron Aaron is offline
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big cap dumps

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario View Post
...Continued from the 3 battery generating system thread where we started talking about JB's cap pulser...



Hi Aaron,

sorry, I had misunderstood the battery setup, I get it now.

About the switch, in the advanced SG book Peter lists the various switching methods, but he also says that the highest cop he'd seen was with John's latest programmed mosfet switching (which after him explaining what the wave looks like I have no problem replicating) so I really don't know if a physical switch or electronic is better...

The switching device he lists has 40 milliohms. The ones I have are 3.7 or 7.2 milliohms, with max 60ns rise/fall times.

I believe John's pulser has 2 trifilar coils, so separate pick up coils? So the 2 mosfets I've seen in the EFTV video could simply be two MJL's running the 2 SG coils, or a Cole switch running them in parallel, don't know.

cheers,
Mario

I'd have to clarify the mechanical vs mosfet with Peter probably. It's been so long. But I believe the variation with the batteries on back where the batteries being swapped never had to be charged up externally was definitely the mechanical switch.



For the machine and it's circuit - I'll take some pics soon.


One thing I need to mention, which hasn't been discussed in ages is that with very large capacitance dumps to the battery, like those 333,333 uf dumps at a few volts above the battery, after doing that a while, you can stop the cap dumps and that battery will continue to charge for quite a while with real load powering capability - it's not a gimmick or some fluffy static charge.



With a trifilar SG, the isolated recovery wire charged a cap bank I had - paralleled 60v 33,000 uf caps maybe 6 of them for almost 200,000 uf. There was a pulley timed so that it discharged with a copper bush switch into some 7ah 12v gel cell scooter batteries - it discharged every few seconds when the caps were around 15v or so. I'd charge it 30 min to an hour and then shut it off. For an entire 1 hour afterward, those batteries would continue to charge right on up! I'd then put those batteries into an old scooter and would ride it down the street to John's shop from where I was working and drove it back - real load powering capability for sure.

I didn't do any measured draw down tests to see if that self-charge up from the big cap dumps had a gain or not, but it is easy enough to test. Once those current impulses get the lead acid battery put in charging mode, the momentum gets going and there is no stopping it. Seems obvious that in between the pulses, that charge mode is sustained so total charging very well could be more than can be accounted for from the cap dumps.

If we know the 20 hour discharge rate and volts to know how many joules there are from full charge down to 10.5 or whatever, then we can calculate how many cap dumps of a certain capacitance would equal that and then deliver that many cap dumps just to do the comparison of did it charge with less, equal or more than.

We don't get that effect with inductive spike charging, steady current charging or small cap dump charging. It only happens with really large capacitance dumps.
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Old 03-16-2019, 01:20 PM
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Mario Mario is offline
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Hi Aaron,

it would indeed be great to have Peter's opinion about a comparison between the latest automated 24 pulser which, according to him gives the highest COP for an SG ever seen, or the mechanic 3V above battery dump with high capacity caps.

Also, what voltages on run and charge batteries right before swapping should we be looking for? I think John said to never let the run battery go under 12.4V if I recall well.

I read somewhere that batteries have the lowest impedance when they are charged. I always thought it's lowest when they are discharged, I may be wrong..

About charging with huge caps at low voltages, I've never seen batteries climb after turning off the pulser, and I've used like 200'000uF dumps. Maybe it happens only with gel cell batts? Did it do this quite right away or did you have to do many cycles before seeing this (of course with desulphated batteries)?

cheers,
Mario
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Old 03-17-2019, 04:35 AM
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Aaron Aaron is offline
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cap discharge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario View Post
Hi Aaron,

it would indeed be great to have Peter's opinion about a comparison between the latest automated 24 pulser which, according to him gives the highest COP for an SG ever seen, or the mechanic 3V above battery dump with high capacity caps.

Also, what voltages on run and charge batteries right before swapping should we be looking for? I think John said to never let the run battery go under 12.4V if I recall well.

I read somewhere that batteries have the lowest impedance when they are charged. I always thought it's lowest when they are discharged, I may be wrong..

About charging with huge caps at low voltages, I've never seen batteries climb after turning off the pulser, and I've used like 200'000uF dumps. Maybe it happens only with gel cell batts? Did it do this quite right away or did you have to do many cycles before seeing this (of course with desulphated batteries)?

cheers,
Mario

The charging after disconnect effect - I don't recall it being limited to gel cells. All I can say without further clarification is that it absolutely does work on gel cells.



I'll try to remember to as Peter about those switching differences the next time I talk to Peter.
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battery, switch, ballpark, front, back, batteries, starter, coils, switching, 12ah, mechanical, garden, cap, pulser, milliohms, korean, war, machine, watts, draw, johns, 7-8, swapped, side, single

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