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  #121  
Old 03-19-2019, 09:58 AM
ricards ricards is offline
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what is the goal?

the discussion from you guys really is a hot one, but what exactly is the goal?.. is it not to make progress?.. and determine the truth?..

12 strands of #23 wire Wound parallel and connected in series.. 2 sets? 3 sets?.

2800+++ rpm multiplied by how many magnets on the rotor?..
you can get the frequency by those variables.

coil bobbin?.. Iron Core?..

don't like tinkering?.. and don't like turion's build?..

coil's inductance can be measured and calculated.

if you have a pre-determined rpm and a defined rotors with magnets, you can define a working frequency.

you can easily get the value of the capacitor needed for the resonant point of that coil via L C or R L C.

I really think that shouldn't be a problem to someone who have a very broad experience with motors and generators.

I do believe the Idea has been laid out.

If you really think Turion is wrong about his measurements, and if you really are sincere about this you should build it and prove him wrong.

like tesla to hertz.
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  #122  
Old 03-19-2019, 05:11 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Generator speed up under load

Hi all,

I happened across this video which I think is an excellent demonstration and explanation of generator speed up under load.

https://youtu.be/vAXQBpuLu68

Regards,

bi
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  #123  
Old 03-19-2019, 05:45 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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V_oc and I_sc

Here is a nice article about no-load (or open circuit voltage, V_oc) and short circuit current (I_sc). It is for a wind generator, 3-phase, but the Turion type generator would behave similarly.

https://www.windynation.com/jzv/inf/...ircuit-current

Regards,

bi
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  #124  
Old 03-19-2019, 07:34 PM
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Video

bi,
Thatís a great video! That video showed everything you need to know except one thing.

He shows you that the coil has a resonant frequency where it puts out the MOST power. Everybody agree on that point?

Then he puts the coil under load and shows that the amp draw of the motor goes down. Do we agree on that?

The rpm of the motor goes UP. Do would we agree on that?

Can we agree that the motor amp draw going down and the rpm of the motor going up, which means the rotor turns faster, are positive things if they are the ONLY things you consider?

Because the only thing NEGATIVE he showed is that the ďmax possible output output of the coilĒ went down when it was put under load. Thatís a bad thing, right? So how do you fix that? You give the motor LESS power so the rotor slows down and you get back to the resonant frequency of the coil where it has maximum output. You get back to the ORIGINAL max output of the coil using LESS voltage and LESS amps. Now times that by 12 when you have 12 coils and you begin to see just how incredibly important this is and how difficult it can be to get everything right so that you actually see MAX output at minimum cost.
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  #125  
Old 03-19-2019, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Turion View Post
bi,
Thatís a great video! That video showed everything you need to know except one thing.

He shows you that the coil has a resonant frequency where it puts out the MOST power. Everybody agree on that point?

Then he puts the coil under load and shows that the amp draw of the motor goes down. Do we agree on that?

The rpm of the motor goes UP. Do would we agree on that?

Can we agree that the motor amp draw going down and the rpm of the motor going up, which means the rotor turns faster, are positive things if they are the ONLY things you consider?

Because the only thing NEGATIVE he showed is that the ďmax possible output output of the coilĒ went down when it was put under load. Thatís a bad thing, right? So how do you fix that? You give the motor LESS power so the rotor slows down and you get back to the resonant frequency of the coil where it has maximum output. You get back to the ORIGINAL max output of the coil using LESS voltage and LESS amps. Now times that by 12 when you have 12 coils and you begin to see just how incredibly important this is and how difficult it can be to get everything right so that you actually see MAX output at minimum cost.
Dave,

That makes a lot of sense. I understated now.



Jason
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  #126  
Old 03-19-2019, 08:33 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Comments inserted in blue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
bi,
Thatís a great video! That video showed everything you need to know except one thing.

Agree it is good video.

He shows you that the coil has a resonant frequency where it puts out the MOST power. Everybody agree on that point?

I'd say the highest apparent power for that load.

Then he puts the coil under load and shows that the amp draw of the motor goes down. Do we agree on that?

Yes.

The rpm of the motor goes UP. Do would we agree on that?

Yes.

Can we agree that the motor amp draw going down and the rpm of the motor going up, which means the rotor turns faster, are positive things if they are the ONLY things you consider?

No. They are what they are. Neither positive or negative in my opinion.


Because the only thing NEGATIVE he showed is that the ďmax possible output output of the coilĒ went down when it was put under load. Thatís a bad thing, right? So how do you fix that? You give the motor LESS power so the rotor slows down and you get back to the resonant frequency of the coil where it has maximum output. You get back to the ORIGINAL max output of the coil using LESS voltage and LESS amps. Now times that by 12 when you have 12 coils and you begin to see just how incredibly important this is and how difficult it can be to get everything right so that you actually see MAX output at minimum cost.

I see no negative or positive here. Just the way things are. You deal with it.

Although he does not comment on it, note the AC V & I waveforms on the scope and the phase. That, IMO, is the important take-away from the demo.
Regards,

bi ______
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  #127  
Old 03-19-2019, 08:50 PM
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No positive?

You see no benefit to a coil that produces its max output While requiring the motor to use LESS voltage and LESS amperage, and see NO BENEFIT to having 12 such coils on your generator?

I have absolutely NOTHING more to say to you EVER. Even when the proof of everything I have been saying is verified by third party people YOU FOUND, you are unwilling to see the truth. We are done.
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  #128  
Old 03-19-2019, 09:39 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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It's all about power, real power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
You see no benefit to a coil that produces its max output While requiring the motor to use LESS voltage and LESS amperage, and see NO BENEFIT to having 12 such coils on your generator?

I have absolutely NOTHING more to say to you EVER. Even when the proof of everything I have been saying is verified by third party people YOU FOUND, you are unwilling to see the truth. We are done.
You might consider that the reduction in power to the motor could result from the lowering of real power to the load. Or in other words, making the power factor worse. That means a reduction of the ratio of real power (watts, W) to apparent power (Volt Amperes, VA).
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  #129  
Old 03-19-2019, 10:34 PM
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Hi all,

I happened across this video which I think is an excellent demonstration and explanation of generator speed up under load.

https://youtu.be/vAXQBpuLu68

Regards,

bi

Hi bi,

Unfortunately, Conrad used a steel bolt for his coil core and back then this was not taken into account. Such bolts can introduce eddy current losses and this manifests in heat while the rotor magnet spins in front of it. And this eddy loss does get reduced the moment you attach a load to the generator coil so this inherently built-in drag does get reduced and so does the earlier draw of the motor. I am not saying that the capacitor tuning has no any beneficial effect here, just that the effect of the bolt can be decisive.

The correct test in this respect would have been to replace the bolt by say a ferrite or metglas or finemet (or other low loss) core, these types have the least amount of eddy current loss, at least by 1 or 2 order of magnitude less than a bolt has. Of course, this replacement should have provided nearly the same L inductance for the coil the bolt did, to be able to make correct comparisons between the two cores.

One more notice: A suggestion made by other builders for a fair test to demonstrate the 'generator speed up under load' effect would be first to measure the unloaded power draw for the prime mover motor, i.e. no generator shaft attached.
Then attach the generator shaft to that of the motor with no load across the generator output and check the prime mover power draw again.
Then load the generator as best you think and here it is also assumed your motor RPM is chosen in advance as best as you think it should be for your setup and check power draw for the prime mover for the 3rd time.

Only then could conclusions correctly be made on the 'effect'.
I also believe all builders should follow such measuring principle for a correct evaluation of their motor-generator setups.
Notice that I do not question this effect, only wish to draw attention for a correct evaluation like mentioned above.

Gyula
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  #130  
Old 03-20-2019, 06:29 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Fwiw

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Originally Posted by Cadman View Post
Thanks for the link.

So far, the companies that manufacture soft ferrites seem unwilling to sell to individuals in small quantities.

I had looked at this Fe304 earlier and discarded it as a candidate because itís magnetite.

Maybe it deserves a closer look. Perhaps when itís mixed with a resin and cast, the particles will be electrically insulated and behave like a soft ferrite?

Itís worth a try, the cost is certainly low enough.

Thanks again
Hi Cadman,

I transported your post over to this thread for obvious reasons. I hope you see it and consider the information.

Insulating the particles in a magnetic hard ferrite can reduce Eddy currents but will not affect hysteresis loss which will be significant. A magnetically soft ferrite has much lower hysteresis, that is it is more easily magnetized and re magnetized in the opposite polarity, or even from low flux density to higher flux density, called minor loop hysteresis. Permanent Magnets are examples of magnetic hard material. It takes high energy to magnetize and demag. Silicon steel is soft magnetically and why it is used in electric machines where the flux changes amplitude or direction.

Regards,

bi
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  #131  
Old 03-20-2019, 07:04 PM
Cadman Cadman is offline
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Hello Bi,

Very true, and the reason I am looking for soft ferrite powder source or an inexpensive way to limit the hysteresis and eddy current losses in a cast part.

I know I could use transformer laminations but I do not want to be limited in the shape of the core or any other device I may try.

I tried iron PLA in my printer, and it works to a degree, but it doesn't have enough iron density at ~ 0.53 g/cm3 for my purposes.

Regards

PS. I thought the main difference between hard and soft ferrite was the electrical insulating layer around each iron particle.
If that's true then maybe resin casting Fe304 will accomplish something similar.
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  #132  
Old 03-20-2019, 07:43 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Hard vs soft

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Originally Posted by Cadman View Post
...

PS. I thought the main difference between hard and soft ferrite was the electrical insulating layer around each iron particle.
If that's true then maybe resin casting Fe304 will accomplish something similar.
No. It's the area enclosed on the BH curve. Soft = small area. Hard = large area. Has to do with molecular/crystal structures.

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  #133  
Old 03-20-2019, 08:10 PM
Cadman Cadman is offline
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Well my first thought was it wouldnít work well, but Iím open to different things. I'm not going to try to mix it and sinter it. In any case itís already ordered along with the powdered iron and it wonít be too much trouble to cast two solenoid cores for comparison. At the least it will be interesting to see the difference between a ferromagnetic and ferrimagnatic core

Still need a source for soft ferrite powder.
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  #134  
Old 03-20-2019, 08:56 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Rod

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Well my first thought was it wouldnít work well, but Iím open to different things. I'm not going to try to mix it and sinter it. In any case itís already ordered along with the powdered iron and it wonít be too much trouble to cast two solenoid cores for comparison. At the least it will be interesting to see the difference between a ferromagnetic and ferrimagnatic core

Still need a source for soft ferrite powder.
How about something like this.
https://www.goldmine-elec-products.c...number=G19561A

Google for ferrite rods give big choice on dims and materials.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrite_core
Reference as to what to look for.

When I was looking into ferrifluid, homemade stuff used waste from bin under grinder sifted to small particle size. Hot iron oxidizes real fast. Never tried it myself. Found a small bottle of ferrifluid for like $5 on Amazon. No harm in trying different stuff. I think those rods would be attractive due to density.

Regards,

bi
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  #135  
Old 04-11-2019, 01:41 AM
bistander bistander is online now
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Tested - Accel Under Load

Hi to all, and hoping Turion sees this,

I am posting here as not to interfere with other folk's threads. I was watching a YouTube vid about a shoe I was shopping for and this video popped up afterward, so wtf, I watched it. I think it is well done and credit the experimenter. Have a look.

Debunked - Thane Heins, ReGenX, delayed lenz, shorted coil, acceleration effect

https://youtu.be/kfRxsC9yumQ

Regards,

bi
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  #136  
Old 05-10-2019, 07:36 AM
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  #137  
Old 05-10-2019, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Hi to all, and hoping Turion sees this,

I am posting here as not to interfere with other folk's threads. I was watching a YouTube vid about a shoe I was shopping for and this video popped up afterward, so wtf, I watched it. I think it is well done and credit the experimenter. Have a look.

Debunked - Thane Heins, ReGenX, delayed lenz, shorted coil, acceleration effect

https://youtu.be/kfRxsC9yumQ

Regards,

bi
Hi all,

this is an interesting video, but probably not for the reasons you think. I can tell you exactly why he's seeing a higher input power with the open bifilar compared to the single wire, which is what I've been saying for a long time now and this is the last time I will post about it. I'm not talking theory, it's something you can verify on the bench, as I have done.

The bifilar coil, when connected in series, has a much higher capacitance than a single filar coil. This implies that the resonant frequency of the bifilar coil is much lower than that of the single filar coil. No load will slow the rotor down faster than a capacitor tuned for resonance! Don't believe me, try it on the bench, and I hope this issue will be settled once and for all.

The reason he sees the high input power is that that bifilar coil at that speed is not at, but in proximity of its resonant frequency, which on its own puts a big load on the rotor. When shorted or with a load he destroys this partial resonance, thus it behaves like the single filar coil.

Dave, I know you are probably the one with the most hands on experience with this kind of generators on this forum, and I respect that. But I repeat, a part from the resonant aspect in which one can get with hi turns bifilar coils, and see what the guy shows, the reason of the speeding up is not due to the coils capacitance. It's due to the core's internal currents, which result in a delayed response of the core towards the inducing magnet.

Do the experiment! Make two identical coils, one bifilar and one single filar. But both with the same total length of wire (and turns finally). First make sure that the unloaded (open) bifilar doesn't put more load on the rotor than the single filar one, to avoid seeing what the guy shows, due to partial resonance. Once that is cleared find the point (speed) where the bifilar doesn't put a load on the rotor when shorted. Now do the same with the single filar, it will do the same thing at the same frequency, proving that the effect is not due to the coils capacitance.

Now the last thing the guy in the video missed is when he says can't see the delay on the scope. The delay is not between voltage and current of the load, unless you use inductive or capacitive loads. But in order to see the real delayed lenz on the scope you need to put the first scope channel on an unloaded coil as a reference. The second channel goes on the loaded coil. Then you will see the delayed response with respect to the unloaded reference coil, which shows where the magnets are, while on channel two you see where the delayed response actually is in time.

regards,
Mario
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  #138  
Old 05-10-2019, 02:07 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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OK

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May I post?
You really don't need permission, so yes.

bi
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  #139  
Old 05-10-2019, 04:22 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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So, why bother?

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Originally Posted by Mario View Post
Hi all,

this is an interesting video, but probably not for the reasons you think. I can tell you exactly why he's seeing a higher input power with the open bifilar compared to the single wire, which is what I've been saying for a long time now and this is the last time I will post about it. I'm not talking theory, it's something you can verify on the bench, as I have done.

The bifilar coil, when connected in series, has a much higher capacitance than a single filar coil. This implies that the resonant frequency of the bifilar coil is much lower than that of the single filar coil. No load will slow the rotor down faster than a capacitor tuned for resonance! Don't believe me, try it on the bench, and I hope this issue will be settled once and for all.

The reason he sees the high input power is that that bifilar coil at that speed is not at, but in proximity of its resonant frequency, which on its own puts a big load on the rotor. When shorted or with a load he destroys this partial resonance, thus it behaves like the single filar coil.

Dave, I know you are probably the one with the most hands on experience with this kind of generators on this forum, and I respect that. But I repeat, a part from the resonant aspect in which one can get with hi turns bifilar coils, and see what the guy shows, the reason of the speeding up is not due to the coils capacitance. It's due to the core's internal currents, which result in a delayed response of the core towards the inducing magnet.

Do the experiment! Make two identical coils, one bifilar and one single filar. But both with the same total length of wire (and turns finally). First make sure that the unloaded (open) bifilar doesn't put more load on the rotor than the single filar one, to avoid seeing what the guy shows, due to partial resonance. Once that is cleared find the point (speed) where the bifilar doesn't put a load on the rotor when shorted. Now do the same with the single filar, it will do the same thing at the same frequency, proving that the effect is not due to the coils capacitance.

Now the last thing the guy in the video missed is when he says can't see the delay on the scope. The delay is not between voltage and current of the load, unless you use inductive or capacitive loads. But in order to see the real delayed lenz on the scope you need to put the first scope channel on an unloaded coil as a reference. The second channel goes on the loaded coil. Then you will see the delayed response with respect to the unloaded reference coil, which shows where the magnets are, while on channel two you see where the delayed response actually is in time.

regards,
Mario
Thanks for the post Mario.

I think that video, your opinions, and the bulk of evidence we've seen all support the proposition that I stated long ago. That this "speed-up under load" is inconsequential to the generator performance at load. And that it is basically a method of increasing no-load losses. Those increased no-load losses diminish as load is applied giving a false illusion of improved performance. It is obviously a case of altering coil design to make no-load operation much worse so someone can claim improvement at load. All the effort and expense put into coils that "speed-up under load" is wasted and actually counterproductive.

Even Turion recently said
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
...
2. The MORE you speed up under load the LESS your coil produces as a generator coil so the perfect coil does not speed up or slow down.
...
The whole deal is silly. Why do it? Has anybody actually shown (proven) an improvement in generator performance at load vs using conventional wound coils?

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bi
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  #140  
Old 05-10-2019, 05:57 PM
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Coils

I have two coils right now. One is three strands of #23 each 1000 feet long. That’s 3,000 feet total of wire. That is what I have used for several years on all versions of my generator. I also have a coil with 12 strands of #23 each 250 feet long which is the coil I recommended people wind so that they would have the MOST options in ways to connect these strands in series. It has groups of four wires connected in series, so three wires come off the coil for a total of 3,000 feet of wire. Other than that, the two coils are identical. Same amount of wire, same core material, same coil bobbin.

The 3 strand coil speeds up at 2800 rpm. The 12 wire speeds up at 1800 rpm. The outputs of the two coils as generator coils are identical at 1800 rpm, but it costs me MORE in amp draw of the prime mover and voltage to the prime mover to GET the rotor up to 1800 rpm when I put the 3 wire coil under load. It immediately boggs down and I have to increase voltage to speed it up to get it back up to 1800 rpm. It also draws MORE amps. When I put the 12 wire coil under load at 1800 rpm, it remains at 1800 rpm. I do NOT have to increase the voltage to get it back up to 1800 rpm. The amp draw does NOT go up. If you see no BENEFIT to this, especially when you have 12 coils on the motor dragging it down, i really have nothing more to share with you.

According to Tesla’s patent, coils wound with wire in parallel and connected in series increases the capacitance of the coil, eliminating its self induction. I believe him.
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Last edited by Turion; 05-10-2019 at 06:44 PM.
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  #141  
Old 05-10-2019, 07:13 PM
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@ Bi:

I never said that the speed up under load effect or delayed lenz effect is useless. I said that I believe that the principle behind it is not due to coil capacitance, and the other thing is that one can easily get confused and think he's getting speed up under load, when in reality he was in proximity of the resonant spot of the high capacitance bifilar coil when the coil was unloaded, but still putting a load on the rotor because of the partial resonant tank effect between coil inductance and its capacitance which act against the magnets.
Then, when putting a load on the coil and destroying the resonant tank effect, he removes that brake and thinks he's getting delayed lenz effect.

Dave, I'm not saying that I don't believe your machines do what you say. The coil example you mentioned is interesting. Question, when you run the two different coils unloaded, is the motor input draw the same? If not it would be interesting to disconnect all the series connections from the wires, basically all strand open and unconnected and see if then the draw is the same.

See, maybe with many strands in series things are again different than only 2 strand in series. Yes Tesla said that the bifilar coil eliminates self induction, meaning that at the correct frequency (resonance), the capacitve reactance and the inductive reactance are equal, resulting in zero in impedance, just like in a normal tank circuit with a coil and capacitor.
With his method you don't need an external cap which at those times weren't cheap. I don't think he ever said that a coil like that would speed up a generator if mounted in one.
I said what I said because from my tests on the bench a single wire coil had the exact same performance as an identical coil, series bifilar but same overall length. They would speed up under load at the same speed. Thus my skepticism about the origin of the effect, not its effectiveness. I'm also not saying this to call you a liar, not at all. Just trying to compare notes and bench experiences.

cheers,
Mario
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  #142  
Old 05-10-2019, 07:57 PM
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Again, why do it?

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Originally Posted by Turion View Post
I have two coils right now. One is three strands of #23 each 1000 feet long. Thatís 3,000 feet total of wire. That is what I have used for several years on all versions of my generator. I also have a coil with 12 strands of #23 each 250 feet long which is the coil I recommended people wind so that they would have the MOST options in ways to connect these strands in series. It has groups of four wires connected in series, so three wires come off the coil for a total of 3,000 feet of wire. Other than that, the two coils are identical. Same amount of wire, same core material, same coil bobbin.

The 3 strand coil speeds up at 2800 rpm. The 12 wire speeds up at 1800 rpm. The outputs of the two coils as generator coils are identical at 1800 rpm, but it costs me MORE in amp draw of the prime mover and voltage to the prime mover to GET the rotor up to 1800 rpm when I put the 3 wire coil under load. It immediately boggs down and I have to increase voltage to speed it up to get it back up to 1800 rpm. It also draws MORE amps. When I put the 12 wire coil under load at 1800 rpm, it remains at 1800 rpm. I do NOT have to increase the voltage to get it back up to 1800 rpm. The amp draw does NOT go up. If you see no BENEFIT to this, especially when you have 12 coils on the motor dragging it down, i really have nothing more to share with you.

According to Teslaís patent, coils wound with wire in parallel and connected in series increases the capacitance of the coil, eliminating its self induction. I believe him.
So you have your generator running at 1800 RPM steady at rated load on the coil. The power to turn the rotor at 1800 RPM at that load is the same whether the coil is multi-filar or single-filar when the wire size and number of turns are the same. What else needs to be said?

But you did say it here,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
...
2. The MORE you speed up under load the LESS your coil produces as a generator coil so the perfect coil does not speed up or slow down.
...
I'm not saying you're correct, but if you believe what you wrote, why do you continue to promote "speed-up under load"? Isn't the design objective to produce more, not less?

I never said winding the coil a certain way will not cause the rotor to speed up when the coil is shorted, or loaded, compared to no-load. All I've said all along is that the phenomena is irrelevant to generator performance at load. Which has been verified by the only A vs B test I've seen (the subject video) where the A vs B test was conducted fairly. All you present is conjecture, no direct evidence (tests at load, A vs B).

I don't care. Waste your time with it. But please, don't try to convince me that it in any way substantiates your (2kw out)/(300w in) claim.

bi
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  #143  
Old 05-10-2019, 08:13 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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I said

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Originally Posted by Mario View Post
@ Bi:

I never said that the speed up under load effect or delayed lenz effect is useless. ...
I didn't say it was. I said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
... That this "speed-up under load" is inconsequential to the generator performance at load. ...
"At load", and in the context of the equipment being built here, speeds, voltage, current, etc., this "speed-up under load" is useless, IMO. Maybe other situations? So what? I suspect that the context or conditions we see here are vastly different than Mr. (or is it Dr.) Tesla envisioned.

Regards,

bi
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  #144  
Old 05-11-2019, 12:24 PM
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Substantiate? LOL

bi,
The ďgiftĒ these kind of coils give is the WHOLE basis for my generator. If you can put as many coils as you want around a rotor and when they are connected to a load there is NO effect on the prime mover, what does it cost you to produce power from every single one of those coils? It costs you the same as if NO coils were in place. That is the difference between these coils and standard coils.

But that is only half of the solution. Every time you add a coil around a rotor, even when it is turning at speed, it affects the rpm of the motor as well as the amp draw because the rotor magnets are moving past iron cores which drags the motor down. Put ENOUGH coils around a rotor and the amp draw becomes so high that the motor will burn up. If you donít believe me, give it a try. Unloaded coils with iron cores. Enough of them will KILL your motor. I have 12 of them on my generator that can be turned by a stock MY1020 motor. I promise you that if YOU try to do it with a rotor that has 1Ēx 1Ē x 3/4Ē thick magnets on it you will not be able to get more than 4 coils around your rotor without burning up the motor if run for any length of time. Would you like to make a small bet on that?

But I can place MY coils around the rotor with NO increase in amp draw to the motor and NO decrease in rpms, or ALMOST none of either. 12 coils, 14, 16, 20. Whatever I have room for. Want more power out? Build a bigger rotor with more magnets and more coils. Your only cost fir turning the rotor is what it would cost you if NO coils were in place at all. (Not QUITE, but close enough, and thatís the point)

The rotor is ALWAYS free wheeling and can be spun by hand, even with 12 coils and 24 neo magnets on the rotor. Can you do that? No you canít, yet you insist that everything I have tried to show is useless. You are a funny, funny man.

By the end of July I should have my machine back up and running. I have been collecting the parts from where they were scattered and I am going to shoot a video of the assembly process so people can see why it works and how it is put together. Then what are you going to do? LOL.
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  #145  
Old 05-11-2019, 01:18 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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What matters

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Originally Posted by Turion View Post
bi,
The ďgiftĒ these kind of coils give is the WHOLE basis for my generator. If you can put as many coils as you want around a rotor and when they are connected to a load there is NO effect on the prime mover, what does it cost you to produce power from every single one of those coils? It costs you the same as if NO coils were in place. That is the difference between these coils and standard coils.

But that is only half of the solution. Every time you add a coil around a rotor, even when it is turning at speed, it affects the rpm of the motor as well as the amp draw because the rotor magnets are moving past iron cores which drags the motor down. Put ENOUGH coils around a rotor and the amp draw becomes so high that the motor will burn up. If you donít believe me, give it a try. Unloaded coils with iron cores. Enough of them will KILL your motor. I have 12 of them on my generator that can be turned by a stock MY1020 motor. I promise you that if YOU try to do it with a rotor that has 1Ēx 1Ē x 3/4Ē thick magnets on it you will not be able to get more than 4 coils around your rotor without burning up the motor if run for any length of time. Would you like to make a small bet on that?

But I can place MY coils around the rotor with NO increase in amp draw to the motor and NO decrease in rpms, or ALMOST none of either. 12 coils, 14, 16, 20. Whatever I have room for. Want more power out? Build a bigger rotor with more magnets and more coils. Your only cost fir turning the rotor is what it would cost you if NO coils were in place at all. (Not QUITE, but close enough, and thatís the point)

The rotor is ALWAYS free wheeling and can be spun by hand, even with 12 coils and 24 neo magnets on the rotor. Can you do that? No you canít, yet you insist that everything I have tried to show is useless. You are a funny, funny man.

By the end of July I should have my machine back up and running. I have been collecting the parts from where they were scattered and I am going to shoot a video of the assembly process so people can see why it works and how it is put together. Then what are you going to do? LOL.
The only thing which matters is demonstration/proof of your (300w in) / (2kw out) claim. All else is just gibberish.

BTW, I've had 100kw generators which I could spin by hand. A hand spin test indicates nothing about performance at load.

bi
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  #146  
Old 05-11-2019, 09:19 PM
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Yeah!

You tellum bistander and Bromikey!
Why am I here?
Oh yeah, to watch a fight.
I’m taking bets on myself figuring all this clutter out, but I do respect each other’s valued experience and first hand knowledge of their situations in life, maybe I will learn something yet.
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Last edited by Pot head; 05-11-2019 at 09:23 PM.
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  #147  
Old 05-12-2019, 06:47 PM
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Gibberish

You say all my contributions are gibberish. But let me ask you a simple question

1.Why is it that every home in America doesnít have a huge generator built into their garage that has giant power producing coils all run by a small 12 volt motor needing only a few amps? What Keeps everyone from building such a device?
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  #148  
Old 05-12-2019, 07:30 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Obvious

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Originally Posted by Turion View Post
You say all my contributions are gibberish. But let me ask you a simple question

1.Why is it that every home in America doesnít have a huge generator built into their garage that has giant power producing coils all run by a small 12 volt motor needing only a few amps? What Keeps everyone from building such a device?
Because it is impossible. An electric generator is an energy conversion device. It requires more energy input (in mechanical form thru the shaft) than the energy it outputs to the load (electricity). Nothing you're doing, or anybody has done, changes that fact.

Regards,

bi
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  #149  
Old 05-12-2019, 11:54 PM
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Finally

And that is where you are absolutely incorrect, so I am done trying to help you.
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  #150  
Old 05-13-2019, 01:18 AM
bistander bistander is online now
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Help me?

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Originally Posted by Turion View Post
And that is where you are absolutely incorrect, so I am done trying to help you.
The only thing I've asked from you is proof of your claim. The only "help" you could possibly offer which I care about is that proof. Show a generator running at an output of real power which is more than the input power. But you can not.

Regards,

bi
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