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  #121  
Old 05-10-2019, 07:57 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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Again, why do it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
I have two coils right now. One is three strands of #23 each 1000 feet long. That’s 3,000 feet total of wire. That is what I have used for several years on all versions of my generator. I also have a coil with 12 strands of #23 each 250 feet long which is the coil I recommended people wind so that they would have the MOST options in ways to connect these strands in series. It has groups of four wires connected in series, so three wires come off the coil for a total of 3,000 feet of wire. Other than that, the two coils are identical. Same amount of wire, same core material, same coil bobbin.

The 3 strand coil speeds up at 2800 rpm. The 12 wire speeds up at 1800 rpm. The outputs of the two coils as generator coils are identical at 1800 rpm, but it costs me MORE in amp draw of the prime mover and voltage to the prime mover to GET the rotor up to 1800 rpm when I put the 3 wire coil under load. It immediately boggs down and I have to increase voltage to speed it up to get it back up to 1800 rpm. It also draws MORE amps. When I put the 12 wire coil under load at 1800 rpm, it remains at 1800 rpm. I do NOT have to increase the voltage to get it back up to 1800 rpm. The amp draw does NOT go up. If you see no BENEFIT to this, especially when you have 12 coils on the motor dragging it down, i really have nothing more to share with you.

According to Tesla’s patent, coils wound with wire in parallel and connected in series increases the capacitance of the coil, eliminating its self induction. I believe him.
So you have your generator running at 1800 RPM steady at rated load on the coil. The power to turn the rotor at 1800 RPM at that load is the same whether the coil is multi-filar or single-filar when the wire size and number of turns are the same. What else needs to be said?

But you did say it here,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
...
2. The MORE you speed up under load the LESS your coil produces as a generator coil so the perfect coil does not speed up or slow down.
...
I'm not saying you're correct, but if you believe what you wrote, why do you continue to promote "speed-up under load"? Isn't the design objective to produce more, not less?

I never said winding the coil a certain way will not cause the rotor to speed up when the coil is shorted, or loaded, compared to no-load. All I've said all along is that the phenomena is irrelevant to generator performance at load. Which has been verified by the only A vs B test I've seen (the subject video) where the A vs B test was conducted fairly. All you present is conjecture, no direct evidence (tests at load, A vs B).

I don't care. Waste your time with it. But please, don't try to convince me that it in any way substantiates your (2kw out)/(300w in) claim.

bi
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  #122  
Old 05-10-2019, 08:13 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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I said

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario View Post
@ Bi:

I never said that the speed up under load effect or delayed lenz effect is useless. ...
I didn't say it was. I said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
... That this "speed-up under load" is inconsequential to the generator performance at load. ...
"At load", and in the context of the equipment being built here, speeds, voltage, current, etc., this "speed-up under load" is useless, IMO. Maybe other situations? So what? I suspect that the context or conditions we see here are vastly different than Mr. (or is it Dr.) Tesla envisioned.

Regards,

bi
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  #123  
Old 05-11-2019, 01:18 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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What matters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
bi,
The “gift” these kind of coils give is the WHOLE basis for my generator. If you can put as many coils as you want around a rotor and when they are connected to a load there is NO effect on the prime mover, what does it cost you to produce power from every single one of those coils? It costs you the same as if NO coils were in place. That is the difference between these coils and standard coils.

But that is only half of the solution. Every time you add a coil around a rotor, even when it is turning at speed, it affects the rpm of the motor as well as the amp draw because the rotor magnets are moving past iron cores which drags the motor down. Put ENOUGH coils around a rotor and the amp draw becomes so high that the motor will burn up. If you don’t believe me, give it a try. Unloaded coils with iron cores. Enough of them will KILL your motor. I have 12 of them on my generator that can be turned by a stock MY1020 motor. I promise you that if YOU try to do it with a rotor that has 1”x 1” x 3/4” thick magnets on it you will not be able to get more than 4 coils around your rotor without burning up the motor if run for any length of time. Would you like to make a small bet on that?

But I can place MY coils around the rotor with NO increase in amp draw to the motor and NO decrease in rpms, or ALMOST none of either. 12 coils, 14, 16, 20. Whatever I have room for. Want more power out? Build a bigger rotor with more magnets and more coils. Your only cost fir turning the rotor is what it would cost you if NO coils were in place at all. (Not QUITE, but close enough, and that’s the point)

The rotor is ALWAYS free wheeling and can be spun by hand, even with 12 coils and 24 neo magnets on the rotor. Can you do that? No you can’t, yet you insist that everything I have tried to show is useless. You are a funny, funny man.

By the end of July I should have my machine back up and running. I have been collecting the parts from where they were scattered and I am going to shoot a video of the assembly process so people can see why it works and how it is put together. Then what are you going to do? LOL.
The only thing which matters is demonstration/proof of your (300w in) / (2kw out) claim. All else is just gibberish.

BTW, I've had 100kw generators which I could spin by hand. A hand spin test indicates nothing about performance at load.

bi
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  #124  
Old 05-11-2019, 09:19 PM
Pot head Pot head is offline
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Yeah!

You tellum bistander and Bromikey!
Why am I here?
Oh yeah, to watch a fight.
I’m taking bets on myself figuring all this clutter out, but I do respect each other’s valued experience and first hand knowledge of their situations in life, maybe I will learn something yet.
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Last edited by Pot head; 05-11-2019 at 09:23 PM.
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  #125  
Old 05-12-2019, 07:30 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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Obvious

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
You say all my contributions are gibberish. But let me ask you a simple question

1.Why is it that every home in America doesn’t have a huge generator built into their garage that has giant power producing coils all run by a small 12 volt motor needing only a few amps? What Keeps everyone from building such a device?
Because it is impossible. An electric generator is an energy conversion device. It requires more energy input (in mechanical form thru the shaft) than the energy it outputs to the load (electricity). Nothing you're doing, or anybody has done, changes that fact.

Regards,

bi
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  #126  
Old 05-13-2019, 01:18 AM
bistander bistander is offline
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Help me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
And that is where you are absolutely incorrect, so I am done trying to help you.
The only thing I've asked from you is proof of your claim. The only "help" you could possibly offer which I care about is that proof. Show a generator running at an output of real power which is more than the input power. But you can not.

Regards,

bi
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  #127  
Old 05-13-2019, 02:56 AM
bistander bistander is offline
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A child

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
A CHILD could do what you ask, but you can't. That just kills me.
Now you claim a child can demonstrate a generator which delivers 2kw of real output power while using only 300 watts of input power. Got proof of that claim?

bi
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  #128  
Old 05-13-2019, 05:27 AM
Pot head Pot head is offline
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All children

Let’s join the fray, we came to play.
Immature personalities with high IQ’s need girlfriends or something.
They sure are burned out in the social areas.
My daddy’s ego is bigger than yours.
I don’t have tiny hands!!
Just a tiny mind.
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  #129  
Old 05-13-2019, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Because it is impossible. An electric generator is an energy conversion device. It requires more energy input (in mechanical form thru the shaft) than the energy it outputs to the load (electricity). Nothing you're doing, or anybody has done, changes that fact.

Regards,

bi
Hello Bistander,

I just had to enter here to answer your post above...

It "could be" practically impossible to overcome a "Mechanical Generator", where the "Input" is based on a rotating shaft, but...

Do you ever think a non mechanical generator is possible?, like just spinning (or moving) the magnetic fields is impossible?

Do you think using Magnetism as a solely source-method to generate electricity is the "one and only" method ever?

...and not talking about chemicals, nor any heat or specific reactions. But just using magnetism to control previously accelerated particles (electrons, ions, etc) into specific geometries which could induce electricity, just as magnetic fields do?

I would just ask you to be -just a bit- more "open minded" friend. Open your mind to "possible unexplored fields of science"...


There are some out there...


Regards



Ufopolitics
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  #130  
Old 05-13-2019, 08:13 PM
Pot head Pot head is offline
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Hi ufopolitics, is it along the same ideas as Tesla’s frequency conversion methods in theory?
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  #131  
Old 05-14-2019, 12:51 AM
bistander bistander is offline
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Child's play

Hey Turion,

Maybe a child shot this video.

https://youtu.be/5eXLecR17pI



Regards,

bi
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Last edited by bistander; 05-14-2019 at 01:19 AM.
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  #132  
Old 05-14-2019, 06:14 AM
Pot head Pot head is offline
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Men, that was a fake. Although he could have been one of my students.
His build is very hazardous and never is picked up to show the wires coming through the table.
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  #133  
Old 06-03-2019, 05:21 PM
Quantum_well Quantum_well is online now
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Gen.

Hi Bistander,
some time ago you posted a link to a generator design
which appeared to be very efficient.
I think it was possibly an axial design aimed at wind energy.
I'd be most grateful if you could re-post it.
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  #134  
Old 06-03-2019, 08:23 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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Axial flux genny

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantum_well View Post
Hi Bistander,
some time ago you posted a link to a generator design
which appeared to be very efficient.
I think it was possibly an axial design aimed at wind energy.
I'd be most grateful if you could re-post it.
Hi, I'll see if I can recall that. I think I know what you mean. Later.

bi
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  #135  
Old 06-03-2019, 08:36 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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Axial flux genny

Was it this one? It was a download so I couldn't get a link. A search for the title should show you the way.

http://www.energeticforum.com/316715-post102.html

Post #102 in this thread.

Regards,

bi
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  #136  
Old 06-03-2019, 10:28 PM
Quantum_well Quantum_well is online now
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Gen.

Thank you Bistander, that was the very one.
Looks like it would serve as a useful low speed wind gen.
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  #137  
Old 06-19-2019, 12:59 PM
Quantum_well Quantum_well is online now
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Thane.

Hi Bistander,

Today, 08:55 AM
Quantum_well Quantum_well is online now
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Aul.
Acceleration under load. The first priority must be to prove your motor is 100% efficient, if not any acceleration is just a change in overall performance.

In the context of RegenX can you understand my
point?
BroMikey is having difficulty with same.
Thank you.
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  #138  
Old 06-19-2019, 01:50 PM
Quantum_well Quantum_well is online now
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Target.

I probably should have said optimum efficiency rather than 100% efficiency.


Tests carried out on a 44 megawatt 6-pole synchronous ABB motor shortly before delivery showed an efficiency 0.25 percent greater than the 98.8 percent stipulated in the contract, resulting in the world record for electric motor efficiency.

They do know a bit about motors "out there".
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  #139  
Old 06-19-2019, 03:16 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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Proof

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantum_well View Post
Hi Bistander,

Today, 08:55 AM
Quantum_well Quantum_well is online now
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Join Date: Apr 2019
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Aul.
Acceleration under load. The first priority must be to prove your motor is 100% efficient, if not any acceleration is just a change in overall performance.

In the context of RegenX can you understand my
point?
BroMikey is having difficulty with same.
Thank you.
Hi,

My observations and opinions. BM is incapable of performing a valid efficiency measurement on an electrical machine. Turion may, with assistance, but seems unwilling.

I've been after him for proof of claims for years, only to nearly get banned from this forum. Hence this thread. Some think their unsubstantiated claims are valid until proven otherwise. While logic and convention dictate that the one making the claim provides proof, it does not apply to them.

Regards,

bi
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  #140  
Old 06-20-2019, 12:26 AM
Pot head Pot head is offline
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Bet!!

I am in the same way, man.
Trying to rebuild a house that was crapped on by loving relatives.
My coil builds will have to wait until I can reverse some damage.
New floors are necessary but no one talks about it on a build now do they?
Maybe the more affluent members have it made but they don’t have my life or circumstances, especially not my mentally challenged relatives.
They grew up stupid because my siblings married local.
They have a three head, not a forehead.
Bistander do you have a carefree life?
All your bills paid and no worries?
Well off financially?
Not me. I have had to think through horrible situations in civilian and military life.
I ain’t never been to college like a lot of you, I just have a natural ability to build stuff.
The reason why I was invaluable on deployment.
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  #141  
Old 06-20-2019, 12:38 AM
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BroMikey BroMikey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Hi,

My observations and opinions. BM is incapable of performing a valid efficiency measurement on an electrical machine.

bi
Wrong again. Why should I try to prove anything to someone who read.
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  #142  
Old 06-20-2019, 04:51 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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My view

Hello Pot Head,

I'm here to discuss energy: how to get it and how to use it, such that we can improve the human condition. I try hard to stay on-topic. This does not involve my personal situation or private affairs. That is none of your business and irrelevant to the subject. I feel the same way about you and others on this board. I don't care about your new floor, or relatives, or Turion's remodeling project. Let's concentrate on how better to apply science and technology to improve energetic apparatus.

Regards,

bi
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  #143  
Old 06-26-2019, 02:57 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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My take

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doogy2Shoes View Post

(Directed to Turion)

input power is 288 watts. And you are getting 195 watts per coil out.
Now you need a way to add more coils and combine the coil outputs,
as you stated.

once you are getting batteries recharged with FREE energy...

Don't just leave this in your work shop
Am I missing something here?

You said that you already extended the range of a stock motor and battery setup.

So you have free energy already, and are on the verge of
what looks to be loopable motor with virtually unlimited output.


Why plan to do nothing with it?
Hi Doogie,

What we are missing is proof. I have been perplexed for several years with Turion's threads. But recently I began to notice similarly to a few other threads. The inventor has had a functional prototype and is certain it works. For some reason, NDA, sold it, needs to keep confidential for patentability, someone stole it, lost it, has it disassembled and packed away, etc, he cannot show or demonstrate it or any data. But he is able to give away details and instructions such that other members can build it themselves. In fact he stresses the need for those people to build it. He may, or may not, participate in a simultaneous build.

I have concluded that in these cases, it is a scheme; an attempt to get others to build his "invention" in hopes they will be able to solve a problem, overcome an obstacle, get past a sticking point, which has actually prevented real success for him. Try to get somebody else to do what he can't.

Turion's generator could, if it works as he claims, provide $1000 per month of electricity with a ROI of just a few months, no or very little distribution infrastructure, no fuel, no pollution and (potentially) a long service life. It would be THE game changer for mankind and planet Earth. Yet he refuses to provide the only thing standing in the way. Proof of his claim.

No worry. He can't prove it because it does not work.

Regards,

bi
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  #144  
Old 07-04-2019, 02:17 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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Work or Force

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
bi,
...
And bi, if you are saying no energy is required to move past the sticky point, which is what you APPEAR to be saying, I would argue, just for the fun of it, that the definition of work may be incorrect. It is defined as force over distance, as you said. I would argue that it is force over time. You cannot move a distance without the elapse of time. Work, however, can be done with no movement over distance. As an example, stand up against the wall of a very tall building and push as hard against that wall as you are able for several minutes. There was force, there was time, but there was NO distance. Just because the wall didn't move doesn't mean you did not do any work. I'm pretty sure after a few hours of that, you would agree that work was done. Or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
bi,
So you are saying no work was done in my example? No energy was expended? You wouldn’t get tired? You must be Superman.
...
Turion,

Let's change your example slightly. Instead of pushing against a wall, let's use holding a 25 pound concrete block 4 foot above the floor. You must hold it perfectly still in that one particular position all day. Say the boss pays you $20/hr. After 8 hrs, he gives you $160 and you're done for the day. You say you did work for those 8 hours. Right? And that work took a certain amount of energy from you leaving you more fatigued and hungry than had you not held that block for that time. However you did not move or change the position of that block.

I, and conventional physics say you did no work for those eight hours. You supplied a force of 25 pounds to the block to maintain the position but imparted no displacement. We say time doesn't matter. You say time matters but displacement does not.

You come in the next day expecting to do your job and earn a day's pay. But your boss says you're fired. He shows you the block. It is exactly in the same position in which you held it the day before. But it is resting on a 4 foot high table. The boss says the table cost $10 and he doesn't have to pay it wages. Smiles and says goodbye.

After 8 hours that table has done the same amount of work as you did the prior day. You and the boss forget about it for a while but come back 10 years later. The block is still exactly in the same position. How much work was done on the block by the table during those 10 years? How much energy was imparted to the block? ZERO. Because there was no displacement (change in distance). There was a force. 25 pounds. And there was time. 8hrs or 10yrs. Time is irrelevant to work in this case. Work = Force * displacement.

Regards,

bi
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  #145  
Old 07-04-2019, 04:05 PM
dragon dragon is offline
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Isn't the magnetic lock trivial to the rest of the operation of the unit? We know why it does it and how to fix it - it's simply a design flaw.

Sky set a base line for the motor and core of 1.5 amps at 120 volts so all that is left to do is create a coil that will produce 1.5 amps at 120 volt to achieve unity, correct? Why not focus the efforts and arguments on how this could be achieved... I'm skeptical that it can be done but am willing to entertain ideas of how to achieve it...
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Last edited by dragon; 07-04-2019 at 04:09 PM.
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  #146  
Old 07-04-2019, 04:22 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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Heat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
... Electricity is moving through the circuit that is trying to run the motor. There’s your energy over distance. Either way, work is being done.
And that electrical energy is converted to heat in the resistance of the winding in the motor. All of it. None is imparted to the magnet.

A similar reaction occurs in human body. Those calories are used and converted to heat. Not to energy imparted to the block.

What's the difference between you and the table. Both do the same function. Neither transfer energy to an object, just supply a force with no movement.

Your magnetic neutralization eliminates the lock. If the lock took energy, would it not show every time a magnet crossed TDC? Then why does it not show on Sky's test?

bi
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  #147  
Old 07-05-2019, 02:10 PM
Quantum_well Quantum_well is online now
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Messing with lens.

I love the idea people have of delaying or evading Lens.
I wondered how fast you'd need to be.
A little motor has been made that does a million rpm,but how far could you go?
Take our tiny motor of say one inch diameter, the flux path could only be one centimeter.
That would be just under 30,000 MHz times by sixty to get to rpm!!
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  #148  
Old 07-20-2019, 02:09 AM
bistander bistander is offline
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Liked this post by al

Quote:
Originally Posted by bromikey View Post
... Hum... Maybe dragon and bi should go away ...
BM = BS ..........

Quote:
Originally Posted by aljhoa View Post
"on bull**** is a 1986 essay, reprinted as a 2005 book, by philosopher harry g. Frankfurt
which presents a theory of bull**** that defines the concept and analyzes the applications of bull**** in the context of communication.
Frankfurt determines that bull**** is speech intended to persuade without regard for truth.
The liar cares about the truth and attempts to hide it;
the bull****ter doesn't care if what they say is true or false,
but rather only cares whether their listener is persuaded.
"


"alberto brandolini, an italian programmer, the bull**** asymmetry principle (also known as brandolini's law[14][15]) states that:
the amount of energy needed to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."


al
I thought I'd post this over here. I first intended to post it in SkyWatcher's Lenz delay thread but didn't want to take it further off-topic.

Regards,

bi
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  #149  
Old 07-20-2019, 02:39 AM
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BroMikey BroMikey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
BM = BS ..........



I thought I'd post this over here. I first intended to post it in SkyWatcher's Lenz delay thread but didn't want to take it further off-topic.

Regards,

bi
What is the problem? Free speech is great, right? You guys are
a wonderful team of guru's. Enjoy your know it all world.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bae0TZL4fRU
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Last edited by BroMikey; 07-20-2019 at 02:45 AM.
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  #150  
Old 07-20-2019, 11:43 AM
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You know what they say about arguing with an idiot.... you win mikey.. I just don't have your experience.
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