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Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

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  #91  
Old 03-15-2019, 05:17 AM
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nuts

Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
O.K. Aaron, the LED in the MIT produced light power of 233% times the electrical input power supplied to the LED. I can accept that result. I never said differently. I believe the power or energy difference between the measured output and electric input power came from the environment.

If nutcase wants to retract his condescending insults and admit what you have in a succinct way, without wiggling all over the place, I'll let him back in. He probably doesn't want back in anyway since there this forum has nothing to offer him since he already has it all figured out. He's banned so how can he respond? Not my problem but the offer is there. Maybe he can be unbanned for 1 day to give him the opportunity to do this. But his admission of the simple MIT study has to go further than yours since the intrinsic implications of the results are equal to his claims that physics would be in turmoil if such a thing could exist, which of course is pure nonsense. In any case, I'm open.
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  #92  
Old 03-15-2019, 12:34 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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@Turion

Turion,

I'll get back to you in a couple days. Spent more time than I should here lately.

bi
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  #93  
Old 03-16-2019, 06:44 AM
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Dynaflux Alternator

Another generator, one of the rare patents given for a low drag generator that generates over 200% in electricity compared to what the prime mover requires. The Dynaflux Alternator invented by Jim Murray, one of the most important engineers ever.



Dynaflux Alternator by Jim Murray





In the video, you can see when the lights are switched on, the draw hardly goes up - maybe a few percent showing a massive cancellation of Lenz's Law.



Patent https://patents.google.com/patent/US4780632A/


Later application with different language about reduced Back EMF https://patents.google.com/patent/US20130187580A1
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  #94  
Old 03-16-2019, 06:45 AM
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Dynaflux Alternator

Keep in mind some elements are not disclosed in the patent as a matter of normal business. He does disclose those missing pieces in the presentation he gave at our conference several years back on the subject.



Jim Murray's Transforming Generator is another overunity technology he patented years ago.
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  #95  
Old 03-16-2019, 07:16 PM
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Deeply disappointed

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Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
If nutcase wants to retract his condescending insults and admit what you have in a succinct way, without wiggling all over the place, I'll let him back in. He probably doesn't want back in anyway since there this forum has nothing to offer him since he already has it all figured out. He's banned so how can he respond? Not my problem but the offer is there. Maybe he can be unbanned for 1 day to give him the opportunity to do this. But his admission of the simple MIT study has to go further than yours since the intrinsic implications of the results are equal to his claims that physics would be in turmoil if such a thing could exist, which of course is pure nonsense. In any case, I'm open.
Aaron,
Please feel free to ridicule and ultimately ban me as well if that's the way you intend to rule your forum. Take my other cheek now that you've taken the opportunity away from IamNuts.

You've been schooled on very primal misconceptions and outright errors. You even got your units wrong. Seems you never even considered to be in the wrong, which is perhaps the more elemental error in science.

You go out of your way to insult a contributing clear-headed member and accuse them of all the things you are doing to a much greater degree, over honest or dishonest lapses of knowledge or reason. It's fair game for you to insult but when your waffling is addressed, that's a ban? The psychology faculty library in my town has an aisle devoted to that.

I've seen some mess online before, things can get heated, I know. I've seen inflated egos, people with authority issues and power abuse on any scale. Your conduct rarely impressed me when I was here more frequently, being one of the reasons I've stayed away. This time you surprise me. I sincerely hope there are no tragic personal developments at the foundation of your conduct.

This is no way to treat any person, not even if they are wrong and misbehaving. Insult have not place, period.
Let alone in this case where you seem to have it terribly wrong. Scientifically and especially ethically.

I'd like to make my stance and encourage you to apologize for all your misconduct above. Don't make me spell it all out for you, I bet you know what you did unless you have a legitimate personality disorder to excuse yourself for.
If you don't want to look into the mirror, by all means focus your wrath on my persona in stead and spare those who are able to contribute scientifically. I'll be your martyr, please don't let your personality and insecurities prevent your forum to contribute to the betterment of humanity.

All the best to you and your readership, should they decide to stay.

If you elect to ban me for daring to speak out to the supreme leader, these will be my famous last words.
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  #96  
Old 03-16-2019, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloxxki View Post
Aaron,
Please feel free to ridicule and ultimately ban me .....

If you elect to ban me for daring to speak out to the supreme leader, these will be my famous last words.
Aaron has the duty to enforce the fairness rules of decent communication
between members. Where is your project? Why are you here? In other-
words if all you want to do is argue? That is not fair for those who are
offering hard data thru experimentation that costs thousands of
dollars to obtain.

The purpose of research. Calling out to one another like a howling
animal trapped in the woods is not. Disagree if you must and by all
mean back it up with something other than an opinion?

Now Bi and others, including myself have been upset with hot shot
Turion for not giving us all of us secrets on a silver platter. In the
beginning when NUTJOB starting insisting Turion cough up all his
proof I admit I kind of liked that, however calling out Liar, Liar
made me repent til I was nearly ashamed for entertaining such an
idea.

People have a right to selectively release their personal data without
the fear of repercussion. Aaron is highly respected at this forum for
doing his job keeping order.

NUTJOB (HEISNUTS) uses this handle that shows intent anyway. he
had an agenda. Nobody is banned for disagreeing so get off that
hobby horse. Feeling sorry for NUTJOB? Not me.

The other gentlemen (BI) did the right thing and I say hats off to any
man who humbles himself. NutJOB would not.
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  #97  
Old 03-17-2019, 12:39 AM
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Questions

Bro Mikey,

Two questions:

Have YOU seen speed up under load work?

Have YOU seen magnetic neutralization work?

I know the answer to BOTH those questions is “yes” because you have posted video on your thread. So if both those principles are REAL, it is absolutely possible to build a generator that does exactly what I say it will. What more proof do you need than what you see on your OWN bench with your OWN meters? And why should I put up with being called a liar, a fraud, and a scam artist by bi, just because he is too lazy to build and test himself? I am not responsible for his success or failure in life. I have provided people with an opportunity to be successful. If they choose to ignore it that’s fine with me. Just don’t call me names because I won’t do the research FOR YOU. The very FIRST video Matt posted showed inputs and outputs and a gain in the system with only TWO coils and a stock motor driven by a 555 timer. Data. All the data necessary to prove this is real. Oh, and THAT machine still had magnetic drag which isn’t bad with only TWO coils, but will KILL you with four coils. That was ENOUGH for me to build a BIG one. Nobody else built ANYTHING. I built a much BIGGER machine that has FAR more output yet runs on basically the SAME input. It took a LONG time to figure out how to do that and cost me a LOT if money. Overcoming the attraction of the magnets to the iron cores is not something they teach you to do in “Generator Building 101”, but YOU know my method works.

So if adding coils doesn’t COST you anything (no cost in magnetic drag because that has been almost completely neutralized, and no cost when under load reflected back to the prime mover because of delayed Lenz) you can add as many coils as you want, as BIG as you want, and your output just goes up and up and up. What is so hard to understand about that?
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  #98  
Old 03-17-2019, 01:56 AM
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@cloxxi

Cloxxi,


If you want to leave, feel free to leave.



I gave nuts and bistander countless opportunities in the 3 battery thread to stop the disruption, off topic posts, insults, etc. and they both refused.



They want to make demands of other members, then it can be a two way street - they can see what it is like to have demands made of them, that's very fair and balanced.



As evidenced by nuts' refusal to address anything that was posted for the specific purpose of debunking all his claims that physics would be in "termoil" because of x, y and z - yet he was incapable of acknowledging how x, y and z existed and these are references even acknowledged by mainstream science. What little he even posted in response to the references was constantly condescending - and constantly ignoring me and posting to others while referring to me as if I'm not here. I don't have to put up with that.

Giving someone a chance to prove they're not a troll is not waffling. Nevertheless, you helped me make up my mind. iamnuts will not have any opportunity to come back in. Thanks.

He was very disrespectful many times to myself and others in the 3 battery thread, he kept posting things that were off topic about the large switches for massive DC power, etc. and when I asked how they're relevant, he becomes disrespectful and tells me in an extremely demeaning and condescending way that I have something to learn? That is not a "contributing clear headed" person at all and if you think that is clear-headed, maybe you need to look in the mirror because you have your glasses on backwards. Without you acknowledging any of those disrespectful posts by him to me and others, it seems you just stepped in here in the middle of a conversation and actually do not know the entire context. No - the amount of times he insulted me and others has been too numerous - he should have been banned a long time ago. Plus he kept posting irrelevant nonsense when I asked him to stop posting off topic posts - that is a slap in the face to ask him that and then have him give me the finger because he wants to do things his way??? I'm way too lenient and have received complaints about him wondering why he is still in the forum - same for bistander. The only thing I did wrong was not ban him sooner.

He owes me and other members an apology, not the other way around. Since when it is ok for the provocateur to victimize someone and suddenly, they are the victim? That is not ok cloxxki and I don't appreciate that you believe it is.

With the way he has conducted himself all those times and you have a problem with me even entertaining the possibility of letting him back in? There is something a bit off with that perspective.
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  #99  
Old 03-17-2019, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Bro Mikey,

Two questions:

Have YOU seen speed up under load work?

Have YOU seen magnetic neutralization work?

I know the answer to BOTH those questions is ďyesĒ because you have posted video on your thread. So if both those principles are REAL, it is absolutely possible to build a generator that does exactly what I say it will. What more proof do you need than what you see on your OWN bench with your OWN meters? And why should I put up with being called ..........
Yes I totally agree. yes i have done all of those tests. Here is yet another
one of many thousands of examples of conflicting bench tests done by
real researchers.

Common courtesy among-st friends goes without saying.

Unity at all costs.


Speed up under load tests
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8DGWkQ6hbo
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  #100  
Old 03-17-2019, 05:39 AM
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Video

Nice video. Luckily that Dremel tool was turning at high enough frequency to get the speed up under load affect, or he would NOT have seen anything special and would have assumed speed up under load is all bunk. I wish he would have given us the rpm of that motor turning. I have about a dozen or so of those pump motors that I pulled the rotors out of and put around a 12" diameter rotor turned by an MY1016 running on 12 volts. The rpm was NOT high enough to get the speed up under load effect, so of course I got drag when a load was introduced. As I have said before, EVERY coil will speed up under load at the correct frequency. What determines the frequency? Size of the rotor. Number of magnets on the rotor, and speed of the rotor. I only had six of the 2" neos on my rotor. One day I will have to try it with one of my rotors that has 12 of the 1" magnets instead of six, and turn it with the MY1020 running on 36 volts. Much higher rpm, although maybe still not as high as that Dremel, and maybe still not high enough for those coils. I am interested in those little pump motors as generator coils because they have PLENTY of wire already on them, have a gap that is easy to enlarge to get a decent width rotor through (if you have a vice to hold the laminate together and a file or Dremel tool to cut with), can be bought relatively cheaply on the internet and gotten for FREE from the local appliance repair shop, plus have that laminate core that doesn't have as MUCH magnetic attraction as a solid iron core does. Best of all, I DON'T have to wind coils if they will work, and I absolutely HATE winding coils. One day I will have to purchase a coil winder, except I am trying to get away from EVER winding another coil!!!!
Dave
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  #101  
Old 03-17-2019, 04:40 PM
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Frequency

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
... What determines the frequency? Size of the rotor. Number of magnets on the rotor, and speed of the rotor. ...
You have a synchronous generator. The frequency is equal to the RPM divided by the number of pole pairs. That yields cycles per minute. Use a factor of 60 seconds/minute to get frequency in units of cycles per second, or Hz. Size of rotor does not appear in the equations. When you use RPM for the "speed of the rotor", size drops out.

Aaron says disagreement is acceptable but he objected to my persistence about proof of claim. So I'm not about to go there. But I remind you that all this mag neutralization, speed-up, cogging, etc is misdirection because it is unrelated to the issue.

bi
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  #102  
Old 03-17-2019, 06:31 PM
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Rotor

I mention size of rotor as a variable ONLY because it can determine how many magnets of a specific size will be able to pass the coil. So in a sense, it IS a variable.

And if you cannot accept that neutralization and speed up under load are possible, how will you possibly accept the results when I eventually show them and not accuse me of FRAUD again? 1 plus 2 equals 3. If you do not believe 1 or 2 exist, how can 3 exist?
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  #103  
Old 03-17-2019, 07:35 PM
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1,2,3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
I mention size of rotor as a variable ONLY because it can determine how many magnets of a specific size will be able to pass the coil. So in a sense, it IS a variable.

And if you cannot accept that neutralization and speed up under load are possible, how will you possibly accept the results when I eventually show them and not accuse me of FRAUD again? 1 plus 2 equals 3. If you do not believe 1 or 2 exist, how can 3 exist?
1 = speed-up under load (as you call it)

2 = magnetic neutralization (as you call it)

3 = the issue ( your generator claim regarding input and output power)

I never disputed your statements concerning that you achieved 1 and 2. I accept that you may have done those things.

But not #3. 1 and 2 have nothing to do with 3. You may think that they do, but there is no significant influence between the generator performance and items 1 and 2, just like there is no net effect on generator performance from cogging. We've been through this many times.

Read this.
Design and Testing of a Permanent Magnet
Axial Flux Wind Power Generator

Garrison F. Price, Todd D. Batzel, Mihai Comanescu, and Bruce A. Muller
Pennsylvania State University, Altoona College

It is a axial flux generator like yours. Do they deal with 1 or 2 or cogging? Where do 1 and 2 fit into their calculations or measurements?

I've said to you numerous times I don't care about 1 and 2 or cogging. And that still goes.

bi
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  #104  
Old 03-17-2019, 09:10 PM
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Lol

Thatís like saying you have measured the performance of a car with square tires and are asking where do ROUND tires fit into the calculations. They donít, because you have square tires on the car. But you keep on driving the car with square tires. You truly deserve it.
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  #105  
Old 03-17-2019, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
I mention size of rotor as a variable ONLY because it can determine how many magnets of a specific size will be able to pass the coil. So in a sense, it IS a variable.

Here is one of my video's showing a single coil speeding up the 10"
rotor (a 9"would be different) going from 209watt drive input down
to 166watt drive input. We will ignore the coil output power for now
and focus on this reduction. 43 watts is what I saved for producing
power out of my coil. Each time I add another coil the rotor goes
a little faster, I save drive power and gen coil output is additive.

Go figure. All of this without using magnetic cancellation. I am unable
to do dyno testing and probably don't have the best meters or scope
and I sure don't remember all of the old farts in the history books with
their respective positions/tittles/effect.

The misinterpretation and spin of these effect given by the inventor
or scientist were always used to further Morgan's business model.
Can't be done is that model, well not without their okay.

Time to ignore them all. Look here.


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  #106  
Old 03-17-2019, 11:07 PM
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Coil

I know you said that was a 12 wire coil, but that bobbin doesn’t appear full. Do you remember how many feet of wire you had on it? It isn’t putting out the voltage I would expect, but you are running that motor on 12 volts, right? So when it drops down to between one and two amps input your watts in would be 1.5-2 amps x 12 volts or between 18-24 watts input, with an output of how many volts at how many amps?
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  #107  
Old 03-18-2019, 01:47 AM
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Tires = coils, not

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Thatís like saying you have measured the performance of a car with square tires and are asking where do ROUND tires fit into the calculations. They donít, because you have square tires on the car. But you keep on driving the car with square tires. You truly deserve it.
Strange. The authors compare rectangular to trapezoidal shaped coils. What leads you to think their work does not apply to any shape of coil?
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  #108  
Old 03-18-2019, 02:48 AM
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Information

Will leave this thread to you bi. You don't get it. Will never get it. Talking to you or trying to tell you anything is a complete waste of my time.

When I listed the variables that determine the output of the coil and hence the generator, there is one variable I left out that dramatically affects the production. I wanted to see if you, with all your knowledge, would call me on it. You did not. Which just proves to me how little you really know. I have talked about it on MANY occasions. If you ever figure out what it was, let me know.
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  #109  
Old 03-18-2019, 03:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
I know you said that was a 12 wire coil, but that bobbin doesnít appear full. Do you remember how many feet of wire you had on it? It isnít putting out the voltage I would expect, but you are running that motor on 12 volts, right? So when it drops down to between one and two amps input your watts in would be 1.5-2 amps x 12 volts or between 18-24 watts input, with an output of how many volts at how many amps?
My coil was from junk wire but it waas a great first try at 24 strand
175feet each of #29 wire. It wire is to small to get good amps out but
if you are looking for high voltage it is great. cept the wire started breaking
down cause it is only rated at 600v. I ran 800v plus thru it, didn't know
the thin wire with so many strands would run up that high, but now I do.

4200 feet total but speed up came at 8 strands on up, the more I used
the faster it will go.

I tried to tell you Bi was stubborn and unwilling to learn new tricks.
He is a closed door i think with a response like that last one. Crooked coils?
or trapezoid? Excuse me...........
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  #110  
Old 03-18-2019, 03:49 PM
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Info

Just remember, the MORE your coil speeds up under load the LESS it produces as a generator coil. Adjust the speed of your motor if you can, to change the frequency, and you will see that the coil output will actually go UP when you REDUCE speed and get closer to a perfect balance. These are the kind of little helpful tips I wanted to share with people actually BUILDING this generator, but nobody who is building is at that point yet.
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  #111  
Old 03-18-2019, 06:47 PM
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Odd

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Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Just remember, the MORE your coil speeds up under load the LESS it produces as a generator coil. ...
Not that I care, or expect an answer from you, let alone a reasonable explanation, but the deal had always been:

Run at no-load. ( ie. Generator coil(s) open circuit, or zero coil current)

Measure speed (RPM)

Put load on generator coil(s) causing current in the coil(s)

Notice speed increase (higher RPM)

So now you say that the generator coil(s) produce less when loaded and the RPM increases. Less than zero?
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  #112  
Old 03-18-2019, 09:18 PM
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you don't get it

Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Not that I care, or expect an answer from you, let alone a reasonable explanation, but the deal had always been:

Run at no-load. ( ie. Generator coil(s) open circuit, or zero coil current)

Measure speed (RPM)

Put load on generator coil(s) causing current in the coil(s)

Notice speed increase (higher RPM)

So now you say that the generator coil(s) produce less when loaded and the RPM increases. Less than zero?

What do you mean "now" he says that - that is all he has said and he has said that many times.



No load best results and if speeding it up, will unload the motor even more but generator coil output goes down. Makes perfect sense and indicates that you have been arguing with him in the 3 battery thread but have not comprehended a word he has said - or just don't care and want to continue to make it look like what he says doesn't make sense even though you just don't get it.



Do you consider a short circuited generator coil to be a load? There is obviously current in the coil and it creates a counter opposing magnetic field - a perfect demonstration of Lenz's Law.
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  #113  
Old 03-18-2019, 09:31 PM
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In Other Words

As you add windings in series there is a point where I reached a null.
For this coil around 6 thru 8 strands did not slow down the rotor nor
did it speed up. After that as I began adding more and more strands
in series the rotor speed kept getting faster and faster and faster but the
energy I could pull from my coil got lower and lower and lower respectively.

That is what Turion means. So in my case at 3000rmp's 20 magnet rotor
4200foot coil at strand number 18 in series most of the 40 plus watts
made available by the coil was helping the mechanical action. Dropping
the number of series windings still helped mechanical to aid the rotor
action but more electrical to power things.
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  #114  
Old 03-18-2019, 09:47 PM
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Common definitions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
What do you mean "now" he says that - that is all he has said and he has said that many times.



No load best results and if speeding it up, will unload the motor even more but generator coil output goes down. Makes perfect sense and indicates that you have been arguing with him in the 3 battery thread but have not comprehended a word he has said - or just don't care and want to continue to make it look like what he says doesn't make sense even though you just don't get it.



Do you consider a short circuited generator coil to be a load? There is obviously current in the coil and it creates a counter opposing magnetic field - a perfect demonstration of Lenz's Law.
No-load = open circuit which means zero current.

Short circuit = zero resistance connection of output terminals. Result is "short circuit" current and zero voltage.

No-load results in "no-load" voltage and zero current so is zero power output.

Short circuit results in current (usually maximum current) and zero voltage so is zero power output.

Short circuit typically is considered loaded. The load is the coil itself because there is current flowing in the coil and the coil has resistance, so IsquaredR power loss in the coil, but zero power to any external load due to the shorted terminals.

Whenever I've read about the speed up under load or watched video demonstrations, the starting condition was no-load meaning coil terminals open circuit. Then the loaded condition had a resistance (often light bulb) across the coil terminals or in some cases, the loaded condition was simply a short circuit across the coil terminals.

How am I mistaken here?

bi
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  #115  
Old 03-18-2019, 11:24 PM
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bi,
So often when you speak it becomes more clear that you HAVEN'T taken the time to read the threads and try to understand ANYTHING that is going on. You just want to spout what you believe to be the truth and hope if you shout loud enough, everyone else will be drowned out or just give up. But because I have seen what is possible, none of the squeaking sounds you make are going to cause me to alter what I KNOW to be true. Sorry. At EVERY opportunity you attempt to twist my words to try to use them against me. Rather that encourage and support, all you do is attack and belittle. They must be paying you a LOT for all the negative effort you are putting in here.

As to the coil and my generator....

My coils have three wires on them, each just over 1000 feet long. The were developed through a painstaking process I have put in writing and will share some day. They are "tuned" for the motor I am using at the voltage I want to run it on to achieve the speed up under load at an rpm that will not cause too big an amp draw for my motor or require too much voltage. I have given out ALL the specs on that machine so anyone could duplicate it perfectly. If they wanted to.

If I increase the voltage to the motor, the amp draw may go up, and I start to get a speed up under load effect, which WILL neutralize the increased amp draw, but the POWER output of the coil will go DOWN. So there is a sweet spot that EVERY coil has where you get neither a speed up under load nor a slow down under load and the coil output is at its maximum. Below that spot, the coil will NOT speed up under load. Above that spot it speeds up under load, but the coil output is LESS than at the sweet spot. Again, EVERY coil. EVERY SINGLE COIL will do this at the proper frequency, but you MAY NOT be able to achieve that frequency with the drive motor you are using. That is why coils wound according to Tesla's patent are so important to the success of this machine. Increased capacitance (Tesla's coil) means sweet spot at a lower rpm.

Now because I have been around for a while I realized that VERY FEW people are going to build the EXACT coil I told them to build, or turn a rotor of the EXACT size I outlined with the EXACT number of the EXACT sized magnets. All of those things will contribute to their success or LACK thereof. With that in mind, I told people to build their coil with 12 strands of #23 each 253 feet in length. All strands wound in parallel. I felt this would give people the MOST OPTIONS and the MOST OPPORTUNITY to be successful.

Bro Mikey wound his coil with 24 strands of #29, not 23, each 175 feet in length, not 253. I knew this would happen. People here build with WHATEVER they have and then wonder why it didn't work. But who can blame them. Nobody wants to invest money in a FRAUD. In his case, he got lucky. With enough strands connected in series, it DID work. Because he understood what I was talking about, he started connecting those strands (which were wound in parallel) in series. He said it required six or 8 strands connected in series before he got to the sweet spot, and as he connected MORE strands in series, the motor sped up even more, as it SHOULD. What I wanted him to be aware of was that when you connect strands in series that have been wound in parallel, you reach a point where you need to balance the gain you get in increased rpm (which SHOULD give you more output) and decreased amp draw of the motor (so lower input) against loss of GENERATED POWER. This is one of the MANY things that still needs testing with this machine. I do not have NEARLY enough data to know if speeding up under load is a GOOD thing, but from what I have seen SO FAR, you really want to be neutral. Or just BARELY speeding up maybe 100 rpm.

MY goal was to build a machine that when all 24 coils are under load, and there are 24 neo magnets 1" in diameter and 3/4 inch thick aligned with the 12 coils, I could disconnect the motor and spin the rotor by hand with little to no effort. I have that. In fact, spinning it by hand is how I do all my final adjustments before I connect the motor to run it. Can ANY generator you know of that uses permanent magnets to produce power do THAT?
I didn't THINK so.
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Last edited by Turion; 03-19-2019 at 03:02 AM.
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  #116  
Old 03-19-2019, 12:30 AM
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shorted generator

Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
No-load = open circuit which means zero current.

Short circuit = zero resistance connection of output terminals. Result is "short circuit" current and zero voltage.

No-load results in "no-load" voltage and zero current so is zero power output.

Short circuit results in current (usually maximum current) and zero voltage so is zero power output.

Short circuit typically is considered loaded. The load is the coil itself because there is current flowing in the coil and the coil has resistance, so IsquaredR power loss in the coil, but zero power to any external load due to the shorted terminals.

Whenever I've read about the speed up under load or watched video demonstrations, the starting condition was no-load meaning coil terminals open circuit. Then the loaded condition had a resistance (often light bulb) across the coil terminals or in some cases, the loaded condition was simply a short circuit across the coil terminals.

How am I mistaken here?

bi

Nobody said you're mistaken on this one point there but you like to wiggle around with your answers.



I'll ask something else...


What happens when you short a generator that is holding up to the laws you believe in?



A simple answer without the slippery talk is preferred.

And why does a generator do what it does when you short the output?
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  #117  
Old 03-19-2019, 01:11 AM
bistander bistander is online now
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Answers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
Nobody said you're mistaken on this one point there but you like to wiggle around with your answers.



I'll ask something else...


What happens when you short a generator that is holding up to the laws you believe in?



A simple answer without the slippery talk is preferred.

And why does a generator do what it does when you short the output?
Aaron,

In a well designed generator, shorting the output will tend to bring the machine to a screeching halt. If the prime mover is strong enough to overcome the generator's strong torque opposing rotation, the generator will blow circuit protection or burn up from overload. Shorting the generator output causes very high currents which react with the magnetic field and produce torque according to Lorentz. Depending on the particular generator design other things may occur. Armature reaction may demagnetize the field and rotation could continue with severely diminished output. In a magnetic loose generator like is often the case with machines without proper magnetic circuits (backiron and such), the armature reaction will weaken the field such that the machine will not produce excessive torque or possibly not even overheat, but rather continue to rotate and generate using the armature as its load.

This is easy to demonstrate for yourself. Most would have a PM DC 2-wire motor around the workbench. I just tried this with a MY6812 sitting in front of me. You would agree, I hope, this motor or similar can be used as a generator. So first, with it no-load (nothing connected to the terminals), twist the shaft by hand. You feel a little resistance to the twisting, but it is possible to get it up to a fairly rapid rotation. Now short circuit the terminals. Twist again. At very slow rotation, little difference is felt. But try an attempt to give it a very quick spin. You cannot rotate it very fast at all.

Regards,

bi
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  #118  
Old 03-19-2019, 02:57 AM
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My coil was from junk wire but it waas a great first try at 24 strand
175feet each of #29 wire. The wire is to small to get good amps out but
if you are looking for high voltage it is great. cept the wire started breaking
down cause it is only rated at 600v. I ran 800v plus thru it, didn't know
the thin wire with so many strands would run up that high, but now I do.

4200 feet total but speed up came at 8 strands on up, the more I used
the faster it will go.
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Last edited by BroMikey; 03-19-2019 at 10:04 AM.
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  #119  
Old 03-19-2019, 02:59 AM
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Lol

I’m old. I can’t read. I’ll edit what I posted.

"Edit DONE"
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Last edited by Turion; 03-19-2019 at 03:02 AM.
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  #120  
Old 03-19-2019, 04:06 AM
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Repeat

I said all of this stuff in the other thread and you commented on it, yet you act is if it is all NEW information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post

By definition, the direction of the current induced in a conductor by a changing magnetic field is such that the magnetic field created by the induced current opposes the initial charging magnetic field. The two opposing magnetic fields being forced together is what the motor has to overcome and why the amp draw of the motor goes up when the generator coils are under load.

In other words, as a magnet approaches a coil that is connected to a load forming a completed circuit, a magnetic field will be formed in the coil that opposes the field of the approaching magnet. At top dead center the field in the coil flips polarity, attracting the magnet that is trying to move away.

Read Tesla patent 512,340. In it he describes a method for winding a coil so that the capacitance of the coil is increased to the point that, when the rotor with a proper number of magnets on it is turned at the proper speed (fast enough) the formation of that opposing field does not occur soon enough to repel the approaching magnet. If it is formed at exactly the right time there is NO reaction at all (and the generator coil produces the MOST power). If it is formed s bit later, just as the rotor magnet passes top dead center, it pushes the magnet away in the direction it is moving. Less power is produced by the coil in this case.

Per Tesla:
"I have found that in every coil there exists a certain relation between its self-induction and capacity that permits a current of given frequency and potential to pass through it with no other opposition than that of ohmic resistance, or, in other words, as though it possessed no self-induction. (No Self induction means NO OPPOSING FIELD CREATED!) This is due to the mutual relations existing between the special character of the current and the self-induction and capacity of the coil, the latter quantity being just capable of neutralizing the self-induction for that frequency."

Because there is no opposing field under load, there is no increased amp draw of the motor when the coils are under load. My motor pulls 12 amps at 24 volts whether there is a load on the coils or NOT.

The trick was figuring out how many wires at what length to wind a coil that would match the number of magnets I had on the rotor turned by the specific motor running on 24 volts at a specific rpm. Anything under 2800 rpm and I do not get the effect. Too much rpm and I get speed up under load or lens assist, and power output goes DOWN. It took over a year to figure out all the variables and put together the perfect coil for this machine. But ANY coil will work as long as you can figure out how fast the rotor has to turn for THAT particular coil. The problem is, sometimes that rpm is way higher than your motor can achieve or your rotor can withstand.

Tesla also says you can increase the capacitance of the coil by using a capacitor along with it and get the same result, but I have never tried that. I do not remember if he said in series or parallel, but I imagine it was in series. In the old days they used expensive bulky capacitors. His "invention" replaced that.
You will notice I addressed the issue of the motor moving FASTER than it needs to and what happens to the power output of the coil. We keep going over the same ground, but you still don't listen.
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Last edited by Turion; 03-19-2019 at 04:08 AM.
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