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  #1  
Old 11-23-2018, 05:47 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Magnetic Diode

https://www.uibk.ac.at/newsroom/firs...fields.html.en

Newsroom
Sketch of the unidirectional magnetic couplingBildlizenz
First diode for mag*netic fields
21.11.2018
Innsbruck quantum physicists have constructed a diode for magnetic fields and then tested it in the laboratory. The device, developed by the research groups led by the theorist Oriol Romero-Isart and the experimental physicist Gerhard Kirchmair, could open up a number of new applications.
Electric diodes are essential electronic components that conduct electricity in one direction but prevent conduction in the opposite one. They are found at the core of any electronic component, being one of the most essential building blocks. Until now there were no such components for magnetic fields. Physicists at the University of Innsbruck and the ÖAW Institute of Quantum Optics and Quantum Information (IQOQI) are now changing that. They designed the first diode for magnetic fields and demonstrated its functionality in the laboratory.

“Our device makes possible to transfer the magnetic field from a first magnetic element - for example a magnet or a coil - to a second one. When roles are inverted and one tries to send magnetic field from the second to the first, no magnetic field is transferred," explains first author Jordi Prat Camps, who is now a researcher at the University of Sussex in England. Technically speaking, this means that the mutual inductances between the two sources, which are routinely assumed to be symmetric, can be made extremely asymmetric. The key element to obtain this result is the use of an electrical conductor that moves with constant velocity. “When the conductor is properly placed near to the magnetic elements and is moved at the right speed, the coupling between them becomes unidirectional, and a diode for magnetic fields is realized”, says Jordi Prat Camps.

Coupled magnetic elements are found in many key technologies like electric motors, transformers, magnetic memories or MRI machines. In all of them, magnetic elements are symmetrically coupled. “The availability of a new magnetic tool like a diode might thus open a bunch of new possibilities”, Gerhard Kirchmair points to the future. For example, the efficiency of wireless charging devices could be improved, since the energy can only flow from the charging station to the device and not in the other direction.

The work was financially supported by the Austrian Ministry of Education, Science and Research and the European Union and published in the journal Physical Review Letters.
_ _ _ _ _ _

All of the was copied from the link. I'm not sure I believe it, but willing to keep an open mind. I want to be see data, proof and theoretical derivation. I hope I don't have to wait too long.

bi
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  #2  
Old 11-23-2018, 07:06 PM
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seaad seaad is offline
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Hello bistander

Good catch!

Remember this: pm some years ago?

"" There is a microscopic hope of OU from the G-part but the real thing must be how to make the ""transformer" as a magnetic diode. No back kick from the secondary!
Arne

....an't discuss on the thread. Magnetic diode.... Interesting. ... Since magnetic flux doesn't flow, I can't see it, but it is something to ponder. Cool idea. ""

Now you also can be a real builder

Regards Arne
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Old 11-24-2018, 03:22 PM
aljhoa aljhoa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
“... magnetic tool like a diode might thus open a bunch of new possibilities”,
Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
I'm not sure ... I don't have to wait too long.
"...since the energy can only flow from the charging station to the device and not in the other direction"

Al
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Old 11-24-2018, 04:39 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Good points

Hello Arne & Al,

Your points got me thinking that it is likely BS making as much sense as a gravity diode. Oh well. Maybe somebody could explain or speculate what a magnetic diode would do, say, if such a thing were placed between a PM and piece of iron.

Regards,

bi
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Old 11-24-2018, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Hello Arne & Al,

Your points got me thinking that it is likely BS making as much sense as a gravity diode. Oh well. Maybe somebody could explain or speculate what a magnetic diode would do, say, if such a thing were placed between a PM and piece of iron.

Regards,

bi
All you need is a magnetic on/off switch, and you have varying flux.

If such a device were placed between two permanent magnets, and you either assisted or opposed the magnetic field between magnets, you would have a varying magnetic flux field. Add a harvesting assembly (coil) encapsulating the field, and you have a generator. Assuming the same relationship with circuit amplification, you should easily attain over-unity.
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Old 11-24-2018, 11:15 PM
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Hello bistander

I don't think your thought experiment example were so good because you mentioned a piece of iron as a magnetic flux 'receiver' from the PM. The iron can't send back or try to send send back magnetic flux as in the 'diode' research attempt. There, the both coils [double acting as Transm./Res.] are situated between the moving U-walls acting as a 'flux deflector' = magn.diode function as I'm interpret that experiment.
In order to validate this magnetic diode experiment, I would perform this in a similar manner as in the research attempt first.
I do think the driving of the U-walls take some energy also because Eddy currents will occur that slow down the walls speed. So I don't think this magn.diode thing is woking for free.
In an apparatus the power consumption to drive that diode function maybe is negligible if the diode function then let the apparatus produce free energy.

Regards Arne
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Old 11-25-2018, 06:29 AM
bistander bistander is online now
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A couple better articles w diagrams.

Looks like these are copyright sensitive so I'm not pasting them in here. This first one shows an apparatus which looks reproducible by the likes of a home experimenter.

https://physics.aps.org/synopsis-for...ett.121.213903

Then there is this article which they want $ for or maybe will send it to a library upon request.

https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstrac...ett.121.213903

Regards,

bi

{edit}

Another one.

Quote:


First diode for magnetic fields
23-Nov-2018


full-screen
Luis Veloso
When the left coil is energized, the magnetic field reaches the right coil (top). When the right coil is energized, the magnetic field does not reach the left one (bottom).

Innsbruck quantum physicists have constructed a diode for magnetic fields and then tested it in the laboratory. The device, developed by the research groups led by the theorist Oriol Romero-Isart and the experimental physicist Gerhard Kirchmair, could open up a number of new applications.

Electric diodes are essential electronic components that conduct electricity in one direction but prevent conduction in the opposite one. They are found at the core of any electronic component, being one of the most essential building blocks. Until now there were no such components for magnetic fields. Physicists at the University of Innsbruck and the ÖAW Institute of Quantum Optics and Quantum Information (IQOQI) are now changing that. They designed the first diode for magnetic fields and demonstrated its functionality in the laboratory.

“Our device makes possible to transfer the magnetic field from a first magnetic element - for example a magnet or a coil - to a second one. When roles are inverted and one tries to send magnetic field from the second to the first, no magnetic field is transferred," explains first author Jordi Prat Camps, who is now a researcher at the University of Sussex in England. Technically speaking, this means that the mutual inductances between the two sources, which are routinely assumed to be symmetric, can be made extremely asymmetric. The key element to obtain this result is the use of an electrical conductor that moves with constant velocity. “When the conductor is properly placed near to the magnetic elements and is moved at the right speed, the coupling between them becomes unidirectional, and a diode for magnetic fields is realized”, says Jordi Prat Camps.

Coupled magnetic elements are found in many key technologies like electric motors, transformers, magnetic memories or MRI machines. In all of them, magnetic elements are symmetrically coupled. “The availability of a new magnetic tool like a diode might thus open a bunch of new possibilities”, Gerhard Kirchmair points to the future. For example, the efficiency of wireless charging devices could be improved, since the energy can only flow from the charging station to the device and not in the other direction.

Original publication:

"Circumventing Magnetostatic Reciprocity: a Diode for Magnetic Fields"; J. Prat-Camps, P. Maurer, G. Kirchmair, and O. Romero-Isart; Phys. Rev. Lett.; 121, 213903
From: First diode for magnetic fields

I think I see what they're doing.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 119375-53.jpg (9.1 KB, 75 views)
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Last edited by bistander; 11-25-2018 at 07:09 AM. Reason: Added reference
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Old 11-25-2018, 11:59 AM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is online now
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Exciting?

Initially sounded exciting......but seems to involve rotating cylinder.
That necessarily would involve a cost?
John.
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Old 11-25-2018, 01:37 PM
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It seems that we have two situations here about the directions of the coils.

Arne
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Magnetisk diod 2.jpg (59.1 KB, 72 views)
File Type: jpg Magnetisk diod 3.jpg (3.0 KB, 69 views)
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Old 11-25-2018, 02:46 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Where from?

Quote:
Originally Posted by seaad View Post
It seems that we have two situations here about the directions of the coils.

Arne
Thanks Arne,



What is your source for this graphic?

bi

{edit}
This reminds me somewhat of the Faraday paradox.
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Last edited by bistander; 11-25-2018 at 02:55 PM. Reason: Added note
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  #11  
Old 11-25-2018, 02:57 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Cost

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Originally Posted by Iamnuts View Post
Initially sounded exciting......but seems to involve rotating cylinder.
That necessarily would involve a cost?
John.
Ever notice? Everything has cost.

bi
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Old 11-25-2018, 04:31 PM
gyula gyula is offline
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Hi bistander,

A member at the other forum posted this link to the paper:

https://arxiv.org/abs/1802.00832

Gyula
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Old 11-25-2018, 06:49 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by gyula View Post
Hi bistander,

A member at the other forum posted this link to the paper:

https://arxiv.org/abs/1802.00832

Gyula
I was able to download pdf free. Thanks.

Got a link to the other forum?

bi
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Old 11-25-2018, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
1) What is your source for this graphic?

2) This reminds me somewhat of the Faraday paradox.
1 My own snippet from your sources/ pics above. Pls correct me if I'm wrong.
And W. Paint.

2 Yes agree, but not exact. A moving rotating conductor and at the same time a short "coil"?, rim to the origo axel.
But again no flux linking. Only one coil! AND DC!

Idea: And DC! Why not AC? Lets chop, chop the DC and make AC. Now we can link the flux to another coil.

Regards Arne
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Old 11-25-2018, 07:09 PM
gyula gyula is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
...
Got a link to the other forum?

bi

Yes, but a real discussion is not yet formed over there:
https://overunity.com/18048/21-11-20...296/#msg527296
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  #16  
Old 11-26-2018, 05:58 AM
bistander bistander is online now
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AC

Quote:
Originally Posted by seaad View Post
1 My own snippet from your sources/ pics above. Pls correct me if I'm wrong.
And W. Paint.

2 Yes agree, but not exact. A moving rotating conductor and at the same time a short "coil"?, rim to the origo axel.
But again no flux linking. Only one coil! AND DC!

Idea: And DC! Why not AC? Lets chop, chop the DC and make AC. Now we can link the flux to another coil.

Regards Arne
Hi Arne,

They've been using AC for this. Tests were done at 9, 30 & 65 Hz using a signal generator to the primary coil.

Go to the link gyula provide and chick on the pdf download, it's in the upper right side of the screen. It gives you the article plus several additional documents containing calculations, graphs and test data. Cool stuff.

bi

https://arxiv.org/abs/1802.00832
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Old 11-26-2018, 06:36 AM
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Thanks bi.
Catched it. Now to the hard part. To grasp it.

PS : A quote from that doc.
"Note that this mechanism is intrinsically lossy; one
needs to add energy to the system in order to keep the
conductor moving at constant velocity and overcome the
magnetic friction originating from the induced eddy currents"
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Old 11-26-2018, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
https://www.uibk.ac.at/newsroom/firs...fields.html.en

Newsroom
Sketch of the unidirectional magnetic couplingBildlizenz
First diode for mag*netic fields
21.11.2018
Innsbruck quantum physicists have constructed a diode for magnetic fields and then tested it in the laboratory. The device, developed by the research groups led by the theorist Oriol Romero-Isart and the experimental physicist Gerhard Kirchmair, could open up a number of new applications.
Electric diodes are essential electronic components that conduct electricity in one direction but prevent conduction in the opposite one. They are found at the core of any electronic component, being one of the most essential building blocks. Until now there were no such components for magnetic fields. Physicists at the University of Innsbruck and the ÖAW Institute of Quantum Optics and Quantum Information (IQOQI) are now changing that. They designed the first diode for magnetic fields and demonstrated its functionality in the laboratory.

“Our device makes possible to transfer the magnetic field from a first magnetic element - for example a magnet or a coil - to a second one. When roles are inverted and one tries to send magnetic field from the second to the first, no magnetic field is transferred," explains first author Jordi Prat Camps, who is now a researcher at the University of Sussex in England. Technically speaking, this means that the mutual inductances between the two sources, which are routinely assumed to be symmetric, can be made extremely asymmetric. The key element to obtain this result is the use of an electrical conductor that moves with constant velocity. “When the conductor is properly placed near to the magnetic elements and is moved at the right speed, the coupling between them becomes unidirectional, and a diode for magnetic fields is realized”, says Jordi Prat Camps.

Coupled magnetic elements are found in many key technologies like electric motors, transformers, magnetic memories or MRI machines. In all of them, magnetic elements are symmetrically coupled. “The availability of a new magnetic tool like a diode might thus open a bunch of new possibilities”, Gerhard Kirchmair points to the future. For example, the efficiency of wireless charging devices could be improved, since the energy can only flow from the charging station to the device and not in the other direction.

The work was financially supported by the Austrian Ministry of Education, Science and Research and the European Union and published in the journal Physical Review Letters.
_ _ _ _ _ _

All of the was copied from the link. I'm not sure I believe it, but willing to keep an open mind. I want to be see data, proof and theoretical derivation. I hope I don't have to wait too long.

bi
Hello bi,

What I have highlighted is what Dave has been trying to tell you in his own way. If you wind the coils properly and get the rotor up to the proper speed then you can induce power into the coils that does not load the motor. His tests conducted over the last several years have proven this to him. I don't have the financial resources to wind the large multistrand coils that Dave found it was necessary to make in order to see the effect. So I can't confirm this for myself, but this article sure seems to do just that. You really need to read his posts again where he describes how to wind those coils and how he thinks they work. The scientific evidence in the article you posted is probably a more accurate way of describing the effect, but Dave has tried many times in his own way to describe the same effect.

Respectfully,
Carroll
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Old 11-26-2018, 09:33 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Mistake

Quote:
Originally Posted by citfta View Post
Hello bi,

What I have highlighted is what Dave has been trying to tell you in his own way. If you wind the coils properly and get the rotor up to the proper speed then you can induce power into the coils that does not load the motor. His tests conducted over the last several years have proven this to him. I don't have the financial resources to wind the large multistrand coils that Dave found it was necessary to make in order to see the effect. So I can't confirm this for myself, but this article sure seems to do just that. You really need to read his posts again where he describes how to wind those coils and how he thinks they work. The scientific evidence in the article you posted is probably a more accurate way of describing the effect, but Dave has tried many times in his own way to describe the same effect.

Respectfully,
Carroll
citfta,

I see what you're saying and a first impression of the article which I posted, but upon further investigation, I realize my first impression, and probably yours, is mistaken. The phenomena explored (discovered?) by these researchers is quite different than what Turion thinks he's done. I believe there is a long way to go before this new research is verified, validated, accepted or proven. But at least these guys, unlike Turion, present all the data and analysis for review. Short of proving their claim, they at least support their claim with evidence, not just tell the world to build it to see for themselves, because they disassembled the apparatus and have it packed away.

As far as Turion's tests proving things to himself and his explanations, in my opinion, it mean nothing. If Mr. Turion would do similar analysis and data presentation as we see from these researchers, I could then take him seriously.

Thanks for your interest,

bi
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Old 11-26-2018, 10:18 PM
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No room!

When you consider the new definition of a kilo sort of involves the
principles of a generator there's absolutely no room for cheating
nature.
The kilogram, ampere, kelvin, and mole will then be defined by setting exact numerical values for the Planck constant (h), the elementary electric charge (e), the Boltzmann constant (k), and the Avogadro constant (NA), respectively. The metre and candela are already defined by physical constants, subject to correction to their present definitions. The new definitions aim to improve the SI without changing the size of any units, thus ensuring continuity with existing measurements.
Please put me right if my assumption is wrong.
John.
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Old 11-26-2018, 11:00 PM
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"properly placed" hmm where did I heard about it ?
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Old 11-26-2018, 11:12 PM
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bi,
Myself and OTHERS have posted videos of coils speeding up under load when they are properly wound and the rotor is at the correct rpm. What more "PROOF" can we give you until you build it and see for yourself.

The REAL proof you are saying I haven't given you is the proof of input and output on my generator. As I have stated probably 20 times now, I am in the process of moving my shop, and that will take MONTHS. Proving what I have is is at the bottom of my priority list right now, and besides which, I will NEVER show any 'proof" to YOU even when I get time to do so. I will, however, show proof to other interested folks.

Dave
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Old 11-26-2018, 11:26 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is online now
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Not a thing.

Speeding up under load is meaningless........ unless you are exceeding
100% efficiency!
Unfortunately you can't do anything about the constants..
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Old 11-27-2018, 12:37 AM
bistander bistander is online now
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Proof?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
bi,
Myself and OTHERS have posted videos of coils speeding up under load when they are properly wound and the rotor is at the correct rpm. What more "PROOF" can we give you until you build it and see for yourself.
...
Please provide evidence that your "speeding up under load" is at all relevant to this discussion, or that it has ever been shown to affect the machine's loaded performance at rated speed.

bi
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Old 11-27-2018, 02:29 AM
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Lol

AGAIN, I am in the process of moving my shop. Once I get things set up at the new house I will be more than happy to prove this point, even to YOU. It is simple. Run the motor turning a rotor with magnets on it WITHOUT any coils in place and measure the voltage, AMP DRAW, and rpm of the motor. Run the motor turning the rotor WITH coils in place and compare the amp draw, voltage, and rpm to the previous test. Then run the motor with those same coils UNDER LOAD and measure the amp draw, voltage and rpm of the motor. THEN tell me this is unimportant.
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Old 11-27-2018, 02:55 AM
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What would that prove?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
AGAIN, I am in the process of moving my shop. Once I get things set up at the new house I will be more than happy to prove this point, even to YOU. It is simple. Run the motor turning a rotor with magnets on it WITHOUT any coils in place and measure the voltage, AMP DRAW, and rpm of the motor. Run the motor turning the rotor WITH coils in place and compare the amp draw, voltage, and rpm to the previous test. Then run the motor with those same coils UNDER LOAD and measure the amp draw, voltage and rpm of the motor. THEN tell me this is unimportant.
You have no baseline. What does a standard "well designed" generator pull at the same load and speed?

What about your reason why what you're talking about relates to the subject of this thread, namely M12 is not equal to M21?
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Old 11-27-2018, 03:43 AM
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Lol

Now you want to compare generators? I thought the question was whether or not a coil under load can accelerate the motor that is used to turn the generator. My mistake. I'm out of here.
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Old 11-27-2018, 04:35 AM
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Thank you

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Now you want to compare generators? I thought the question was whether or not a coil under load can accelerate the motor that is used to turn the generator. My mistake. I'm out of here.
I have said a number of times that I didn't care about that claim as I see it being irrelevant. I don't know what the eventual ramifications of this new research will be, if any. And I have not read all the material which I have downloaded, yet. But from what I can tell, there is no connection between anything you've shown and this new research.

Regards,

bi
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