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  #61  
Old 12-09-2018, 08:56 PM
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purelyprimitives purelyprimitives is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundiceuk View Post
In order to get torque from a single stage machine using a true Tesla rotor you need surface area.

However, the torque is supposed to come from the axle of the 2nd stage turbine.

The most misunderstood fact about the Tesla turbine is it is the combination of the two turbines that makes the machine.

I’ve not seen one built this way apart from in photos of Tesla’s own turbines.

The quote above from Tesla states that self regulating isn’t possible with a single stage machine unless the rotor diameter is large.
Are the builders planning to make the second stage?
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  #62  
Old 12-09-2018, 09:40 PM
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Six things that are underway with US Idaho build

1. 2nd stage turbine - part built

2. Axial flux generator - finished

3. Changing the inlet nozzle from a converging nozzle to a diverging nozzle

4. Adding the 3 circular grooves

5. Adding an internal pressure / vacuum gauge

6. Finalising the Tesla valve


Also got a UK team build that is finalising a design ready for 3D printing.

This consists of 1st stage and 2nd stage.

The 3D printing is being done out of ABS and has a print area of 6" x 6 " x 6"
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  #63  
Old 12-09-2018, 09:56 PM
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I thought this was an interesting video animation.

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  #64  
Old 12-09-2018, 10:08 PM
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I just copied this from a website and pasted it here for future reference.


"A word about inlet nozzles and the Anharmonic Resonator:



Looking at the diagram of the anharmonic resonator (which would include the types of nozzles Tesla was using); Sonic gas speed will occur at the smallest area cross section between a high pressure reservoir and the turbine discs. Supersonic gas flow speeds will only occur immediately downstream of a region of sonic speed (smallest cross section) and only if the cross section gradually increases. This has been proven in laboratories hundreds of times. If all gas flow properties are being regulated at the inlet nozzle immediately upstream of the turbine discs, that will be the region where sonic gas speed will occur. All cross sections upstream of the nozzle and up to the exit of the high-pressure reservoir would have a greater cross-section area. The best location to regulate gas pressure and the mass flow rate of the gas would be at the inlet nozzle, not the reservoir outlet.
apt8The anharmonic resonator (click image thumbnail, left to enlarge) will be used downstream of a regulator valve that would also be the exit of the high pressure gas reservoir. Sonic gas speed will occur in that regulator valve (it will regulate the mass flow rate of the gas and also its pressure) and the gas flow downstream of the regulator valve would go supersonic if cross section area gradually increases. Under these conditions, a device like the aharmonic resonator could break up the supersonic shock waves ahead of a Tesla turbine intake. To slow supersonic gas, the cross section area needs to be reduced. The anharmonic resonator is essentially a modification of the Oswatitsch intake that is used at the entrance to the engines of supersonic aircraft. The Macrosonix-type intake would break up the sound waves so as to reduce the pressure loss as the air slows from supersonic speed to subsonic speed.

This device will only have use if the gas flowing toward the intake nozzle of a Tesla turbine is already traveling at supersonic speed. If the gas speed is subsonic and with no hope of it ever going supersonic, then the device would either do nothing or it will cause problems if it is not designed properly. If you want to run a Tesla turbine when the air at the intake to the nozzle is supersonic, an Oswatitsch intake may involve lower energy losses that this resonator. Both devices would work best in an aircraft traveling at supersonic speed and a Tesla turbine was being used on board to drive electrical generation equipment or hydraulic equipment.

Mass flow rate of gas into a Tesla turbine can be regulated by using a rectangular cross-section of inlet nozzle. It is very easy to achieve adjustable and variable cross-section area from a rectangular nozzle. An alternative would be to use multiple nozzles of varying cross-section areas. Operate some nozzles and keep others shut off so as to achieve the desired mass flow rate of gas into the Tesla Discs. 4-nozzles in a 1:2:4:8 cross section ratio will give a 1:2:4:8 mass flow rate ratio into the Tesla discs, which in turn would yield 15-mass flow settings and also 15-power settings in equal steps."
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  #65  
Old 12-09-2018, 10:11 PM
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Interesting that when the animation shows the interior of the side casing, the grooves are concentric just like I thought 😁
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  #66  
Old 12-09-2018, 10:33 PM
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They must have been put there for a good reason. I guess we will find out soon once they have been machined into the case.
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  #67  
Old 12-10-2018, 04:12 PM
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Been following the topic since it was started. Thanks for sharing Soundiceuk.

I'm sharing the below video because it's interesting but keep in mind it's not the 2 stage that Soundiceuk is researching.
This particular Russian Tesla Turbine researcher has built many single stage turbines and has been exploring combining Gas (propane) with a low volume air flow, which on its own (the air) cannot turn the disks until it's combines with propane and ignited by a spark plug and coil.
I think it may be air cavitations of the gas explosions that make the difference?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcltYGiIfOY


Here it's working in an enclosed Tesla turbine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfCZ-UkVGKA


Here's all his videos

https://www.youtube.com/user/vitglow/videos


Regards
Luc
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  #68  
Old 12-11-2018, 08:55 AM
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Thanks Luc,

I have been in contact with the youtuber trying to explain the ultimate energy source:

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  #69  
Old 12-11-2018, 12:58 PM
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Theory Videos







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  #70  
Old 12-11-2018, 03:21 PM
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If you are not yet convinced on the possibility of using atmospheric air pressure as an energy source for a 1st stage Tesla turbine please watch this!

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  #71  
Old 12-11-2018, 03:34 PM
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I've been researching atmospheric pressure and came up with a conclusion of what the Tesla turbine builder witnessed.



"I have no doubts we can build it to run on atmospheric air, when you first told me it took a bit but it clicked in my head. I saw it happening. I can visualize when I lucid dream, images clear as day. It takes me longer to do prototypes, because my limited situation. I wanted to tell you something that happened when I added a load, some resonance thing happened, when I was loading it down more and more it started to speed up without additional pressure, I was literally burning through hard wood faster than in the video. ALL The Sudden I heard a pop, a puff of vapor exploded out of the turbine. then another pop, then another one. You know how the air has moisture in it and the exhaust is constantly sucking in atmospheric air, IT INSTANTLY CONDENSED THE AIR INTO VAPOR CREATING A HUGE VACUUM! That,s my theory of what happened, we are so close."
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  #72  
Old 12-11-2018, 04:41 PM
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UK Team Build CAD Drawings

I've got some real sharp guys working on this in Brighton UK.

To say they are excited by my findings is an understatement!





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  #73  
Old 12-11-2018, 07:39 PM
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New US Idaho turbine video:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kes8ri2686...0test.mp4?dl=0

I've just been told he has captured a video with the "pops" in. Will post that one soon!
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  #74  
Old 12-11-2018, 10:31 PM
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The UK team wrote to me today:

“We are putting the two together. We’ve also worked out some other big things around the physics - which are universal

This is a Torus

It applies throughout the universe in pressure, electrical fields, everything"
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  #75  
Old 12-12-2018, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
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I've got some real sharp guys working on this in Brighton UK.

To say they are excited by my findings is an understatement!





I don't see the star shaped spacers in the first stage??
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  #76  
Old 12-12-2018, 08:49 PM
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Yeah, I sent them the patent for the Tesla's Mk2 rotor.

This is just a draft that was knocked up last Monday.

I expect big results from these guys!

Proud to have kick started a UK team.

I've been trying kick start replications of Tesla's Monarch of Machines in many countries, as it seems the best way to release a technology like this.

There are at least five now, two in UK, two in US and one in Portugal!
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  #77  
Old 12-12-2018, 11:15 PM
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I hope to start my build this weekend. I'll keep you posted. I want to build both stages as a single unit. It won't be as fancy as your 3d drawing 😁 but i'll be focusing on simplicity of construction.
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  #78  
Old 12-13-2018, 12:24 AM
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I've started on my build today.

Still trying to decide if I use acrylic or polycarbonate.

I want it transparent so I can see what happens inside when coloured water is put inside.

This next video doesn't show the "pops" yet.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/12B7...y1LhvU7pr/view
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  #79  
Old 12-13-2018, 12:50 AM
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More Theory



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  #80  
Old 12-13-2018, 04:11 AM
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Paul,

Back in response #32 you wrote:

"After reading all of Tesla's final rotor design patent.

We can use a single disc with no holes."

My question is, if this 2 stage device works where the flow acts as a torus, won't a solid disc with no holes block the flow through the first stage?
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  #81  
Old 12-13-2018, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundiceuk View Post

"I have no doubts we can build it to run on atmospheric air, when you first told me it took a bit but it clicked in my head. I saw it happening. I can visualize when I lucid dream, images clear as day. It takes me longer to do prototypes, because my limited situation. I wanted to tell you something that happened when I added a load, some resonance thing happened, when I was loading it down more and more it started to speed up without additional pressure, I was literally burning through hard wood faster than in the video. ALL The Sudden I heard a pop, a puff of vapor exploded out of the turbine. then another pop, then another one. You know how the air has moisture in it and the exhaust is constantly sucking in atmospheric air, IT INSTANTLY CONDENSED THE AIR INTO VAPOR CREATING A HUGE VACUUM! That,s my theory of what happened, we are so close."
That reminds me about Schauberger's repulsine. He did say about it: that after speeding up the machine went into some kind of "breating", a pulse, and would keep running.

I think it could be the same principle.

Keep up the good work

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  #82  
Old 12-13-2018, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purelyprimitives View Post
Paul,

Back in response #32 you wrote:

"After reading all of Tesla's final rotor design patent.

We can use a single disc with no holes."

My question is, if this 2 stage device works where the flow acts as a torus, won't a solid disc with no holes block the flow through the first stage?
Here are a few references. My understanding is the the air is always best introduced at the centre of the rotor. This ensures that thrust is equal because the fluid path takes the line of least resistance.

It also ensures the fluid has the longest path of travel and therefore higher velocity.

US Patent 1,061,206 - Turbine

"I accomplish this by causing the propelling fluid to move in natural paths or stream lines of least resistance, free from constraint and disturbance such as occasioned by vanes or kindred devices, and to change its velocity and direction of movement by imperceptible degrees, thus avoiding the losses due to sudden variations while the fluid is imparting energy."

"It is to be observed that the resistance to the passage of the fluid between the plates is, approximately, proportionate to the square of the relative speed, which is maximum in the direction toward the center and equal to the full tangential velocity of the fluid. The path of least resistance, necessarily taken in obedience to a universal law of motion is, virtually, also that of least relative velocity."


Tesla British Patent 186,082 - (Tesla's Mk2 Rotor Patent)
Improvements in the Construction of Steam and Gas Turbines


"If there is an odd number of thin plates the central one may be plain, if desired."


US Patent 1,061,142 - Fluid Propulsion

"When, irrespective of the character of the fluid, considerable pressures are desired, staging or compounding may be resorted to in the usual way the individual runners being, preferably, mounted on the same shaft. It should be added that the same end may be attained with one single runner by suitable deflection of the fluid through rotative or stationary passages."
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  #83  
Old 12-13-2018, 08:37 PM
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History of air bearings

The search for the ultimate magnetic bearing brought me here. Upon discovering the Tesla turbine I had the realisation Tesla was using "air bearings".

I decided to publish my findings on this interesting subject:


https://bentlybearings.com/air-bearings-history/

https://www.newwayairbearings.com/te...aring-history/



1828 - Wills Publishes Earliest Known Treatise

Rev. Wills publishes a work in the Cambridge Philosophical Society entitled “On the Pressure Produced on a Flat Surface When Opposed to a Stream of Air Issuing from an Orifice in a Plane Surface.”

1897 - Kingsbury’s Experiments Highlight Inherent Difficulties

A. Kingsbury experiments with a 6”diameter journal bearing supported on externally pressurized air. The practical problems of matching bore and shaft geometry and size to achieve a consistent .0005” gap all the way around were and are a manufacturing challenge. Small gaps are required when using air because the viscosity is so low. Kingsbury finds that the higher viscosity of water or oil works better with the relatively large gaps that can be manufactured at that time.

1904 - Westinghouse Receives Thrust Bearing Patent

G. Westinghouse receives a patent for an air thrust bearing used in a vertical steam turbine.

https://patentimages.storage.googlea...3/US754400.pdf
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Last edited by soundiceuk; 12-13-2018 at 09:49 PM.
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  #84  
Old 12-14-2018, 01:26 PM
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Me and the builder in Idaho have been banging our heads together and both think:

The 1st stage decompresses, which expands and cools the air.

The 2nd stage can either:

a) Pump the air (discs with tear shaped holes) which adds to the decompression and creates cool, clean air

b) Compress the air (discs with no holes) which creates warm clean air


This really is many machines condensed into one.


The 1st stage is one half of the tornado, the 2nd stage is the opposite

The air travels centripetally on entry to 1st stage.

The air travels centrifugally on exit to the exhaust on 2nd stage.
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  #85  
Old 12-15-2018, 12:57 AM
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https://www.videoblocks.com/video/mo...pibrxzjc32x9iz











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Last edited by soundiceuk; 12-22-2018 at 12:29 AM.
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  #86  
Old 12-15-2018, 01:05 PM
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Running on hot air!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1agr...uetIHdyvS/view
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  #87  
Old 12-15-2018, 08:58 PM
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Here is a dropbox link in case anyone couldn't see the last video.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4y18rawgnm...20air.mp4?dl=0

The plan is to add the 2nd stage with solid disc/s.

The compressed air is going to be piped off the 2nd stage casing and back into the 1st stage.

We should then see a self runner with no compressed air.

Just hot compressed air!

Reminds me of feedback on an amplifier.
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  #88  
Old 12-15-2018, 10:21 PM
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It seems that when he connects the air line it slows down?? Backpressure??
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  #89  
Old 12-15-2018, 10:30 PM
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Yes back pressure as he still has the converging nozzle.

The diverging nozzle will remove some of the back pressure.

It will allow a higher RPM before the same back pressure is reached.

Adding the one way valve will remove the back pressure altogether!
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  #90  
Old 12-19-2018, 06:40 PM
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Attached is cleaned up air bearing patent 1904

https://www.dropbox.com/work/Team%20...w=US754400.pdf
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