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Old 05-24-2018, 04:48 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Join Date: Apr 2015
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Motor design magnetics

Hello all,

I am starting this thread at the request of member dyetalon. From his ferrocell thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dyetalon View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dyetalon View Post
...
But I began thinking of how unbalanced a typical electric motor is and how the dipole field is the most efficient.
...
One of the biggest downfalls of conventional motors is the Lorentz force.
When you start up a motor, good old Lorentz SLAMS the rotor into one of the bearings (depending on rotation direction). If you start and stop the motor often enough, you will end up with a bad bearing.
...
Hi dyetalon,

Yes you mentioned your motor earlier and I took a quick read of the patent application documents.



In the typical motor, be it AC, DC, PM, wound field, brushless, or brush commutated, like the graphic, the Lorentz forces are tangential to the axis of rotation. There are no Lorentz forces acting in the axial direction.

All magnetic fields are dipole. It is impossible to get around the nature of the dipole magnetic field. So the motor shown above uses dipole fields and is balanced.

I would like to understand what you envision as the magnetic paths in your motor design and why you feel it is superior to that as shown above. Please realize that the FEMM shown above could apply to a brushless design by electronically committing the armature making it the stationary member (stator) and having the magnet assembly rotate (as the rotor) making it an out-runner type BLDC or synchronous ACPM motor.

Regards,

bi
Start another thread. This should be focused on the cell.
I'm not going to debate the pros and cons of typical vs. transverse motor design here.
His complete post for your convenience:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dyetalon View Post
Let me give you a first hand example of how a cell can be a better tool for visualizing fields than iron filings:

Many of you know I quit working with the cell in 2008 to work in the motor industry. Earlier, and during my tests of the cell over 4 years, I began to look at a magnetic field more like the cell portrayed. I too, grew up playing with iron filings and magnets and thought I understood how a motor should work.

But I began thinking of how unbalanced a typical electric motor is and how the dipole field is the most efficient.
So I developed a new type of DC PWM magnet motor based on dipole to dipole interaction (same as what's going on in our blood cells).
The beauty of my design (hate to brag) is using the dipole field.
I was able to rotate the electromagnetics (stators) 90 degrees and change motor geometry.

One of the biggest downfalls of conventional motors is the Lorentz force.
When you start up a motor, good old Lorentz SLAMS the rotor into one of the bearings (depending on rotation direction). If you start and stop the motor often enough, you will end up with a bad bearing.

And the new 90 deg offset allowed me to make the stators into MODULES.
Replaceable modules!
So now I have a smooth running, quiet motor with replaceable bearings and stators. How cool is that?

I won't go into any more details here but I know you're wondering "Well, where is your fantastic motor?" Save that for another topic and thread.

My point is: I wasn't able to open my mind to other magnetic configurations until I stared thru one of these cells for a couple of years.

Iron filings and computer generated FEMM stuff is looking at the same 200 year old view they always have.
What got this started today:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamnuts View Post



The motor designers are hindered by using filings when of
course they should be using a ferrolens.

Motor designers use tools like this:


"Filings"? I don't think so!

I am interested to see:

1.) How the ferrocell could be applied to electromagnetic machine design.

2.) How the proposed theories of this "new magnetism" applies to electromagnetic machine design.

Regards,

bi

Source of graphic: https://quickfield.com/advanced/dc_motor_simulation.htm
So hopefully I can learn a few things here.

Respectfully,

bi
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motor, dipole, design, lorentz, field, magnetic, start, filings, cell, thread, typical, direction, stators, rotation, iron, shown, bearings, fields, began, thinking, rotor, magnet, ferrocell, making, type

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