Energetic Forum  
Facebook Twitter Google+ Pinterest LinkedIn Delicious Digg Reddit WordPress StumbleUpon Tumblr Translate Addthis Aaron Murakami YouTube 2018 ENERGY CONFERENCE - ALL SEATS SOLD OUT!

2018 Energy Science & Technology Conference
Sponsored by Teslacoin Foundation

Teslacoin Foundation

http://tesla-coin.com


Go Back   Energetic Forum > >
   

Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

* NEW * BEDINI RPX BOOK & DVD SET: BEDINI RPX

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 04-13-2018, 05:42 PM
axxelxavier axxelxavier is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 45
Long runner Joule Thief charger

Hello, everyone.
My goal is to achieve a emergency light, capable of running long time, with a decent light, and a small current draw.
I have played, during last years, with Joule thiefs, and recently, I made one with 18650 Li-ion batt, with some modification to last longer, and to give a usable light.
Output of joule thief is charging other 18650 batt, while giving light from two 12 volt / 1 watt led bulb, and each of those bulbs are connected to a pancake coil.
Both batteries was charged when I started the test, and, from time to time, batteries was exchanged from charger to source and viceversa.
A small reminder. Those 12 volt led bulb can`t be fired up by a single 18650 li-ion batt...
Just for fun, I compared the charger with a „simple” Joule thief, similar setup with charger, except no charging second battery.
Also, I`ve tested a „conventional” way of lighting the led bulb, with a step up module.
So, the result are as following:
1. Conventional setup: run time almost 42 hours, initial current draw 40 mA (and 176 mA in the end);
2. Joule Thief classic: run time almost 80 hours, initial current draw 44 mA (and 30 mA in the end);
3. Joule thief charger: still running, 180 hours run time until now, initial current draw 66,3 mA (lowest current draw, until now 47,7 mA)
Setup 1 and 2 was running from a 2900 mA battery, while setup 3 was running from two 3250 mA batt (i was tried to compensate bigger juice from last setup with a bigger curent draw). All Li-ion batteries are new.
Photos and schematics in following posts.
__________________
 

Last edited by axxelxavier; 04-13-2018 at 06:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

Download SOLAR SECRETS by Peter Lindemann
Free - Get it now: Solar Secrets

  #2  
Old 04-13-2018, 05:48 PM
axxelxavier axxelxavier is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 45
1. „Conventional” setup, with step up booster
Attached Images
File Type: jpg _ DSC_0002.jpg (195.0 KB, 40 views)
File Type: jpg _ DSC_0005.jpg (176.6 KB, 33 views)
File Type: jpg _ DSC_0013.jpg (88.3 KB, 28 views)
File Type: jpg _ DSC_0017.jpg (72.0 KB, 32 views)
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-13-2018, 05:53 PM
axxelxavier axxelxavier is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 45
2. Joule Thief classic
Attached Images
File Type: jpg _ DSC_0018.jpg (222.7 KB, 37 views)
File Type: jpg _ DSC_0022.jpg (108.8 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg _ DSC_0034.jpg (227.9 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg _ DSC_0035.jpg (109.2 KB, 32 views)
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-13-2018, 05:56 PM
axxelxavier axxelxavier is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 45
3. Joule thief charger
Attached Images
File Type: jpg _ DSC_0025.jpg (154.2 KB, 45 views)
File Type: jpg _ DSC_0027.jpg (180.5 KB, 37 views)
File Type: jpg _ DSC_0028.jpg (214.6 KB, 34 views)
File Type: jpg _ DSC_0031.jpg (260.9 KB, 36 views)
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-13-2018, 06:05 PM
axxelxavier axxelxavier is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 45
A short diagram showing progress of the 3 setups discharging times. Yellow and gray lines are from joule thief charger, the setup still run for almost 8 days.
I tried, also, in other test, to use Joule thief charger with only one batt charged, and the other, discharged, but the result was disappointing.
Best regards,
Teodor
Attached Images
File Type: jpg charging battery.jpg (103.8 KB, 36 views)
__________________
 

Last edited by axxelxavier; 04-14-2018 at 11:23 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-14-2018, 11:42 AM
axxelxavier axxelxavier is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 45
Just a short update: 206 hours run time!
I don`t know if my calculations are right, but the charger should work only for 106 Hours! 6400 mA (capacity of both Li-Ion batt), divided by 60 mA (average current draw), equal 106 hours run time!
But my running time at this joule thief is almost double, and I had usable light for 8 days. Interesting...
Anyway, i`ve hooked up another 18650 batt, with a fast diode (1N4148) to the second pancake coil, and it`s charging, slowly, but now i have another source of power to feed this setup, after a few days...
Best regards,
Teodor
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-14-2018, 04:56 PM
ewizard's Avatar
ewizard ewizard is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Outside the Matrix
Posts: 1,109
Nice work although I'll say as a longtime flashlight enthusiast that there are many lights which will provide usable light for 1000 hours or even much longer. A while back one person tested an HDS light running it non-stop for somewhere around 2 years using only a 16340 Lithium size battery (much smaller than the 18650). There are many flashlights with variable output that can run for over a month at lower but usable outputs. The newest ones have the most efficient LED's and have some amazing run times.
__________________
There is no important work, there are only a series of moments to demonstrate your mastery and impeccability. Quote from Almine

Last edited by ewizard; 04-14-2018 at 05:05 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-14-2018, 07:59 PM
axxelxavier axxelxavier is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by ewizard View Post
Nice work although I'll say as a longtime flashlight enthusiast that there are many lights which will provide usable light for 1000 hours or even much longer. A while back one person tested an HDS light running it non-stop for somewhere around 2 years using only a 16340 Lithium size battery (much smaller than the 18650). There are many flashlights with variable output that can run for over a month at lower but usable outputs. The newest ones have the most efficient LED's and have some amazing run times.
Thanks for your reply. Please consider I`m using 12 volt led bulbs, and if you examine again fotos from joule thief charger, the light is quite intense during night. I can easily read during night :-).
About 1000 hours light. What can I say? I have, also, a Joule thief running from 2 years ago from a dead AAA battery. The light, thought, is very dim. And I have, also, other Joule thief setup running from 6 month ago, with a slow, but usable light during night. That means at least 4k hours... from a dead AAA batt ;-) And it`s still running...
I could have, for the sake of simplicity, a small light from a 10 mm led connected with a 1k resistor to any 3,7 volt Li-Ion batt. It would last quite enough, but not as long as a joule thief setup.
Actually, it`s not about new technology. I have also a few good lantern, with several light mods. But I don`t think any off the shelf lantern can offer anything like this type of blocked oscillator.
It`s about surpassing the limitation of the battery. Take your best lantern, and monitor the load (led) at 60 mA current draw, to see how long will resist. See my calculation above, both of my 18650 should be dead long time ago.
Of course, here we are talking about passion, about the quest for finding best options to a problem, to combine pancake coil with a joule thief and to recover usable energy. This of course, can be extended on a larger scale. Imagine this made with BIG batteries, and coils.
By the way, did you play with Joule thief so far?
Best regards.
Teo
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-15-2018, 02:30 AM
Aaron's Avatar
Aaron Aaron is offline
Co-Founder & Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 10,810
c rating?

Quote:
Originally Posted by axxelxavier View Post
Just a short update: 206 hours run time!
I don`t know if my calculations are right, but the charger should work only for 106 Hours! 6400 mA (capacity of both Li-Ion batt), divided by 60 mA (average current draw), equal 106 hours run time!
But my running time at this joule thief is almost double, and I had usable light for 8 days. Interesting...
Anyway, i`ve hooked up another 18650 batt, with a fast diode (1N4148) to the second pancake coil, and it`s charging, slowly, but now i have another source of power to feed this setup, after a few days...
Best regards,
Teodor
What is the battery manufacturer's claimed C rating for that battery?
__________________
Sincerely,
Aaron Murakami

Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-15-2018, 08:28 AM
axxelxavier axxelxavier is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 45
Hello, Aaron, thank you for your reply.
Both batteries in the Joule Thief Charger setup are Panasonic NCR18650B, rated 3400 mA (actually, they have 3293 mA and 3263 mA). Third batt, recently added to be charged from secondary pancake coil, is a Panasonic NCR18650PF, rated 2900 mA (I didn`t test it yet to find real capacity).
Some specs as following:
For NCR18650B, Charging: CC-CV, Std. 1625mA, 4.20V, 4.0 hrs (source here)
For the NCR18650PF, see the atachments.
Well, I don`t have many NEW Li-ion batts, so for the second setup, the `classic` joule thief, i used NCR18650PF, but at lower current draw (37 mA average current draw), in order to compensate bigger capacity from Joule Thief charger batteries ( aprox. 3300 mA). This second setup (JT classic) last only 80 hours, and JTC (Joule Thief Charger) have right now 227 running hours (right now current draw is 52 mA), and the 12 volt led bulb was lit non-stop.
This third setup will come to an end, eventually, but right now I`m surprised how long it lasts. I`m sorry I didn`t had sooner the idea of charging also the secondary batt from pancake coil. This will extend a little bit the life of this setup.
Anyway, I wanted to share this with all of you.
Any suggestion is welcomed.
Best regards,
Teo

L.E. The light blue line from the diagram is charging the secondary batt from the pancake coil (so one led bulb now it`s gone!)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg charging battery.jpg (97.0 KB, 17 views)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf datasheet.pdf (465.5 KB, 9 views)
File Type: pdf Panasonic_NCR18650PF_2900mAh.pdf (476.2 KB, 6 views)
__________________
 

Last edited by axxelxavier; 04-15-2018 at 08:45 AM. Reason: Added updated charging diagram
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-15-2018, 05:24 PM
ewizard's Avatar
ewizard ewizard is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Outside the Matrix
Posts: 1,109
Yes I have built Joule theif circuits as well as Joule ringer (lasersaber design). Pancake coils are an interest and I agree it's a passion to find the best you can get from a battery. I just wanted to let you know if you are in need of a good emergency light that lasts a long while there are many available now. Some are quite cheap and some expensive. I've got flashlights smaller than my thumb that can light up a room like a 60 watt light bulb or better. I've watched the progress of LED lights over the last 12 years and it's a tech that has grown by leaps and bounds in terms of efficiency so personally I wouldn't put too much effort into designing an efficient light as I believe the light makers have that covered but I do understand the quest for making a light better and longer lasting.
__________________
There is no important work, there are only a series of moments to demonstrate your mastery and impeccability. Quote from Almine
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #12  
Old 04-15-2018, 08:31 PM
axxelxavier axxelxavier is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by ewizard View Post
Yes I have built Joule theif circuits as well as Joule ringer (lasersaber design). Pancake coils are an interest and I agree it's a passion to find the best you can get from a battery. I just wanted to let you know if you are in need of a good emergency light that lasts a long while there are many available now. Some are quite cheap and some expensive. I've got flashlights smaller than my thumb that can light up a room like a 60 watt light bulb or better. I've watched the progress of LED lights over the last 12 years and it's a tech that has grown by leaps and bounds in terms of efficiency so personally I wouldn't put too much effort into designing an efficient light as I believe the light makers have that covered but I do understand the quest for making a light better and longer lasting.
I know there are many flashlights available. If I could, I think I would make a BIG collection! For this setup, I spend almost 15 bucks, so it`s not so expensive. Anyway, think about this experiment at a greater scale: using big batts, and big coils, running a load, and recovering energy by charging a second and maybe a third batt, like in 3BGS setup. I think with an automatic switching between batteries, they wil run much longer. One thing, interesting, about pancake coil: shorting the pancake recovery coil, does not affect too much main coil, like them are isolated somehow!
After finishing this experiment, I will try at a larger scale, with bigger voltage. I`m confident I will have some interesting results...
Pancake coils are very interesting... If I remove both of my recovery coils in my Joule thief charger, current draw change from 50 mA to 600 - 700 mA!
About your flashlight, can you PM me some links?
Greetings,
Teo
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-17-2018, 04:44 PM
ewizard's Avatar
ewizard ewizard is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Outside the Matrix
Posts: 1,109
Biggest flashlight forum has tons of info : CandlePowerForums
One of my favorite pocket rockets with 1020 Lumens:
https://darksucks.com/collections/fo...ni-turbo-mk-ii
also there is an even smaller version at 1020 Lumens - might check eBay or Google for foursevens mini mk II. Also Nitecore has some very nice pocket rockets. All I mentioned are ANSI certified for Lumen output and very high quality lights. You can find cheaper ones for a lot less but most totally exaggerate their Lumen output and quality is not as good.

I keep trying to find an induction cooker for a reasonable price - their pancake coils are nice as I don't do well at winding my own
__________________
There is no important work, there are only a series of moments to demonstrate your mastery and impeccability. Quote from Almine
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-20-2018, 07:36 PM
axxelxavier axxelxavier is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 45
Thank you, there are indeed some gorgeous flashlights...
Best regards ,
Teo
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
time, draw, joule, thief, setup, charger, current, running, batt, light, bulb, led, hours, run, initial, li-ion, batteries, long, charging, end;, small, bigger, battery, result, photos

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Please consider supporting Energetic Forum with a voluntary monthly subscription.

For One-Time Donations, use admin@ this domain > energeticforum.com

Choose your voluntary subscription

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v1.4.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Shoutbox provided by vBShout v6.2.8 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2007-2015 Copyright - Energetic Forum - All Rights Reserved

Bedini RPX Sideband Generator

Tesla Chargers