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  #61  
Old 11-03-2017, 12:06 AM
gotoluc gotoluc is offline
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11/2/17 (4th day) 21st bat switch

Link to video:
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  #62  
Old 11-03-2017, 12:40 AM
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Thoughts

I wonder how much power those three meters consume running the entire time the test is running? It might not be much but it is certainly something.
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  #63  
Old 11-03-2017, 01:33 AM
gotoluc gotoluc is offline
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Originally Posted by Turion View Post
I wonder how much power those three meters consume running the entire time the test is running? It might not be much but it is certainly something.
Yes, I though of that as well. To power one meter it uses 0.00091 Amp @ 12vdc and 0.00134 Amp @ 24 vdc
Luckily the lab space I have free use of has a high end meter I can measure microamps with precision.
Like you said, it's not much but it's good to know and factor in if you wish.

Regards

Luc
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  #64  
Old 11-03-2017, 01:39 AM
gotoluc gotoluc is offline
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11/2/17 (4th day) 22nd bat switch

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  #65  
Old 11-03-2017, 03:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
I wonder how much power those three meters
consume running the entire time the test is running? It might not be
much but it is certainly something.

yes you are right Dave this value could be added into the chart.

Here is a quote from a RC site on shunts as all measuring devices such
as shown in Luc's video's use built in ones. The one's Luc is using has
more functions for even smaller amounts to measure that drives the cost
up. I think DROK is one brand name if you wish.

For our purposes we only need the ma scale but either device whether
cheap or expensive carries an internal shunt. This is simple Ohm's Law
math if you want to calculate it out.

The built in shunt on the meter i am buying off of ebay

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-80-260V-20-50-100A-DC-6-5-100V-LCD-Digital-Display-Volt-Amp-Power-Watt-Meter/172621629117?hash=item28310d06bd:m:mqoXQnuea95tb0S E9664FSg

is lower at 20 amp size. They also talk about drift and calibration here.

it appears that what use to cost hundreds of dollars is now produced
for a fraction of that cost and is common place. Anyone can afford these.

According to all of the new standards you are looking at .002%+or-

i remember John Bedini use to harp on not using amp shunts with
his radiant chargers as they were all pulsing and surging constantly
and since he was working with a COP of 1.3 it was critical to keep
losses way down. Pulsing is another story, losses go higher.


http://www.rc-electronics-usa.com/current-shunt.html



Ohm's law:

V = I R

states that the Voltage (V in Volts) across a resistance
(R in Ohms) is the product of the resistance and the current
I in Amps) flowing through the resistance.

For example. A current shunt whose resistance is 0.001 Ohms
having a current of 50 Amps flowing through it will produce a voltage
of 0.001 50 = 0.05 Volts or 50 mV (milliVolts).

So by inserting a current shunt into a circuit whose current you
want to measure your can find the current by measuring the voltage
drop across the shunt. Then knowing the resistance of the current
shunt you can calculate the current using Ohm's law arranged
as I = V R.

Conversely, if you know the current and the voltage produced
across a current shunt you can use Ohm's law to calibrate the
current shunt resistance.

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  #66  
Old 11-03-2017, 03:31 AM
gotoluc gotoluc is offline
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Originally Posted by gotoluc View Post
Yes, I though of that as well. To power one meter it uses 0.00091 Amp @ 12vdc and 0.00134 Amp @ 24 vdc
Luckily the lab space I have free use of has a high end meter I can measure microamps with precision.
Like you said, it's not much but it's good to know and factor in if you wish.

Regards

Luc
Dave, the current measurement I provided you is only the current consumption of the Watt Meters circuit and LCD. It does not include what is dissipated in the Meters Shunt resistor which is either 0.001 Ohm or at most 0.01 Ohm

Regards

Luc
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  #67  
Old 11-03-2017, 03:46 AM
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11/2/17 (4th day) 23rd bat switch

Link to video:
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  #68  
Old 11-03-2017, 04:31 AM
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Interesting

I am REALLY looking forward to the last test tonight, and here's the data so you can see why.

I'm going to put two columns of figures here. they are the last 7 tests. I totaled the voltage in the three batteries each time

35.22..........35.6
35.45..........35.52
35.12 ..........35.02
34.87

In each of these instances There is a low total followed by a HIGHER total. I have a feeling that ONE battery out of the 3 is not doing so well at taking a charge, just from what I see here. There is ONE weird number. But in all THREE of the complete pairs, the end number is higher than the BEGINNING number.

EDIT: The number in red I had as 34.12 which was odd, but checking the math last night it turns out it should have been 35.12, which fits the pattern, so I corrected my error
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  #69  
Old 11-03-2017, 05:30 AM
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11/2/17 (4th day) stopped for the night at 1:15 am

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  #70  
Old 11-03-2017, 06:35 AM
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34.69

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
I am REALLY looking forward to the last test tonight, and here's the data so you can see why.

I'm going to put two columns of figures here. they are the last 7 tests. I totaled the voltage in the three batteries each time

35.22..........35.6
35.45..........35.52
34.12 ..........35.02
34.87

In each of these instances There is a low total followed by a HIGHER total. I have a feeling that ONE battery out of the 3 is not doing so well at taking a charge, just from what I see here. There is ONE weird number. But in all THREE of the complete pairs, the end number is higher than the BEGINNING number.
I get 34.69 Dave
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  #71  
Old 11-03-2017, 02:35 PM
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Test resumed 11/3/17 (5th day) 24th bat switch

Link to video:
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  #72  
Old 11-03-2017, 02:45 PM
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Data

Actually, the number in red should have been 35.12 instead of 34.12 I went to my spread sheet and put in a formula instead of doing it in my head and I had two other numbers that also changed by one digit in the .01 place so I have corrected those, but this is an important error so I am bringing it up. I guess I need to do addition more often. My higher math skills are out of practice. I also double checked my amphora totals for each day and one of them was WAY off, so have corrected that on my chart also.

Satyam,
Yes, the last number I got last night was 34.69, so that blows the pattern I was looking at to bits. Back to the drawing board.

It appears the amp hours are going up 6 or 7 amp hours for each two hour run lately. Should be an interesting day.
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  #73  
Old 11-03-2017, 04:06 PM
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11/3/17 (5th day) 25th bat switch

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  #74  
Old 11-03-2017, 04:24 PM
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Base line

Hi Luc,

I've been following your test. It appears the batteries are nearly discharged. I don't know how you will determine the end of test (EOT). With 6 cell lead-acid battery discharge tests I typically used 10.5V under load or 11.0 Voc (Volts open circuit) as a standard EOT. Once you get to that point there is not much energy left in the battery and further discharges to even lower battery terminal voltage is harmful to the battery.

IMO, a base line test would be nice to see. For instance a single fully charged battery running the same motor continuously until discharged to 10.5 or 11 V. Record run time and watt hours as well as V & I. I suspect it'd take about 35 hours. I don't see the need for rest periods but also see no harm in shutting down overnight and continuation next day.

Hey, I like what's going on here. Just throwing some suggestions your way from a guy who's done many, many battery tests.

Keep it up.

bi
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  #75  
Old 11-03-2017, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Hi Luc,

I've been following your test. It appears the batteries are nearly discharged. I don't know how you will determine the end of test (EOT). With 6 cell lead-acid battery discharge tests I typically used 10.5V under load or 11.0 Voc (Volts open circuit) as a standard EOT. Once you get to that point there is not much energy left in the battery and further discharges to even lower battery terminal voltage is harmful to the battery.

IMO, a base line test would be nice to see. For instance a single fully charged battery running the same motor continuously until discharged to 10.5 or 11 V. Record run time and watt hours as well as V & I. I suspect it'd take about 35 hours. I don't see the need for rest periods but also see no harm in shutting down overnight and continuation next day.

Hey, I like what's going on here. Just throwing some suggestions your way from a guy who's done many, many battery tests.

Keep it up.

bi
Hi bistander

I have already explained in the first video that the two batteries (labeled A1 & B2) were fully charged at the beginning of the test and that Bat C3 was fully discharged which I also demonstrated to be so. I also explain bat A1 & B2 were load tested (charged & discharged) over 6 time and averaged 60 Watt/hr of capacity in each. I did also mention I'll stop the test if the motor stops or when all 3 batteries reach 10 Volts (which ever comes first) which at that point there should be no doubt that the batteries energy capacity we started with in bat A1 & B2 is fully depleted and then calculate the motors total run time hours.
We'll have a total Watts/hrs that has run through the 3 battery circuit.

The next test will be to recharge bat A1 & B2 and each run the motor (watt meter attached) till each battery reach 10volts then total the hours of run time.
We'll compare the data of the two tests and it should be clear if the 3 battery system makes a motor run longer then just connected straight to a battery.

Is there anything unclear about the tests?

Regards

Luc
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  #76  
Old 11-03-2017, 05:55 PM
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This video is to inform you all of more 3 battery system tests that will be done next week.

Link to video: https://youtu.be/4IH0FmM589o

Kind regards and thanks to the supporters for their contributions to allow this to happen

Luc
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  #77  
Old 11-03-2017, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by gotoluc View Post
Hi bistander

I have already explained in the first video that the two batteries (labeled A1 & B2) were fully charged at the beginning of the test and that Bat C3 was fully discharged which I also demonstrated to be so. I also explain bat A1 & B2 were load tested (charged & discharged) over 6 time and averaged 60 Watt/hr of capacity in each. I did also mention I'll stop the test if the motor stops or when all 3 batteries reach 10 Volts (which ever comes first) which at that point there should be no doubt that the batteries energy capacity we started with in bat A1 & B2 is fully depleted and then calculate the motors total run time hours.
We'll have a total Watts/hrs that has run through the 3 battery circuit.

The next test will be to recharge bat A1 & B2 and each run the motor (watt meter attached) till each battery reach 10volts then total the hours of run time.
We'll compare the data of the two tests and it should be clear if the 3 battery system makes a motor run longer then just connected straight to a battery.

Is there anything unclear about the tests?

Regards

Luc
OK. Good. Sorry I missed your EOT definition in post 7. Pretty clear.

Thanks,

bi
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  #78  
Old 11-03-2017, 06:19 PM
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Xlnt!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gotoluc View Post
This video is to inform you all of more 3 battery system tests that will be done next week.

Link to video: https://youtu.be/4IH0FmM589o

Kind regards and thanks to the supporters for their contributions to allow this to happen

Luc
Kudos again Luc on what must surely be one of the best threads on any forum, demonstrating high quality empirical research and quest for truth. Thanks for doing this and keeping your thread on point. I appreciate the cooperation and support this has engendered among others on this forum, as well, and thank them for it.

Jim
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Old 11-03-2017, 07:04 PM
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11/3/17 (5th day) 26th bat switch

Link to video:
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  #80  
Old 11-03-2017, 07:26 PM
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All,
Luc MAY have done what I was unable or unwilling to do for 10 years, which is adequately document what is going on with this system. For the first few years I did not know HOW to explain it, and for the last several years I was unwilling to take the time. See the following video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Pmrdi9oHtk

This does not include all the batteries whose carcasses I traded in for NEW batteries that I also killed. When you keep discharging batteries down to 10 volts, they really don't like it for some strange reason. (we know better don't we?!!!)
I have LONG been using batteries of 150 amp hours or MORE and do not, in fact, have ANY small batteries less than 100 amp hours in my shop except the ones in my bone yard.

It was my opinion, based on many years of testing this system, that it was a crap shoot whether Luc would successfully demonstrate to himself and others whether what we have been saying for ten years or not is true, simply because of the size of the batteries.

The repeated requests for me to do a demonstration similar to the one Luc has undertaken were not even going to be CONSIDERED by me simply because it TAKES TOO LONG with the batteries I am using. This has taken Luc four days so far with 5 amp hour batteries. To do the SAME test with 150 amp hour batteries would take somewhere around 120 DAYS. I don't know about you, but it is kinda hard for me to justify to myself or my wife stringing together 120 days in a row where I can spend all day testing to satisfy someone else when I already KNOW this works. And I wouldn't waste four days doing it with batteries THIS SMALL because I went through a LOT of small batteries over the years and realized they were CRAP.

My job on this forum, with this particular project, is done. Folks like Luc, who have DONE the testing and SEEN the results and KNOW the value of this system. (Assuming of course he decides his results prove our theory.) can take it from here and carry on if they choose. Or perhaps others who have followed along and seen his results will be inspired to take the next step. Before I go I want to leave you with one thought that should run through your head every time you experiment with an electrical circuit:

NEVER (I would say, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, but you might forget how many "NEVER's" you are supposed to have in there, so one will have to do) run energy from a high potential to a low potential without using it to do "free" work along the way. And I am hopeful that the demonstration Luc is working on here will show you the MINIMUM amount of "free "work that is possible. More efficient circuits will significantly increase the amount of work that can be done. I know this because Matt has designed and BUILT them and I have replicated them.

Since there are only 25 people following this thread right now, you have your work cut out for you to get the word out if Luc's testing proves our theory.

By the way, if I am not mistaken, Luc already did a video that shows him running this motor on two FULLY charged batteries running them down to about the point where they are NOW , in his current experiment, and he got about 100 Wh out of the two of them. I believe on the 3 Battery setup he is at about 232 watt hours, so it would appear there MAY be an advantage. Here is the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hdj9eG6_1Zg

Now Luc will probably run that same test again, since I believe wants to take the batteries down to 10 volts, but I expect the results will be about the same.

Dave
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Last edited by Turion; 11-03-2017 at 08:11 PM.
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  #81  
Old 11-03-2017, 08:03 PM
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the repeated requests for me to do a demonstration similar to the one Luc has undertaken were not even going to be CONSIDERED by me simply because it TAKES TOO LONG. This has taken Luc four days so far with 5 amp hour batteries. To do the SAME test with 150 amp hour batteries would take somewhere around 120 DAYS.

Dave
Dear Dave

I don't agree a larger Amp/hr Battery will take any more time to test then my test.
As you know, my 5 Amp/hr battery can deliver 0.25 Amps current @ C/20 rating.
My test averages around 0.15 Amps resulting in next to no losses in the batteries Impedance (internal resistance) and the reason we can see results.

Now if you consider C/20 of your 150 Amp/hr battery it = 7.5 Amps of use.
The bottom line is, it all comes to the same time and in fact if you ran at 7.5 Amps your test would of been done by now. Mine runs longer since I'm using less Amps then C/20.

I have plans to test with Lithium Ion batteries asap. If the effect is the same (extended run time) then we can operate at 1C which is the full batteries Amp/hr rating. It can even get better but I won't get into that now.

Let me know if you have any questions

Regards

Luc
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Old 11-03-2017, 08:06 PM
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11/3/17 (5th day) 27th bat switch

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Old 11-03-2017, 10:41 PM
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11/3/17 (5th day) 28th bat switch

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  #84  
Old 11-04-2017, 12:02 AM
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Luc,
All my batteries are old and converted to alum except my 250 amp hour deep cycle golf cart batteries, which are only about a year and a half old. They are the only ones I would even attempt this test with. And running my little motor at 7 amps is about as fast as i would ever want to run it and with as much of a load as it could handle. So yes, I could have done the test and it would have only taken a week or two.

But I choose not to for another reason. People need to get off their butts and do the research themselves. You don't earn anything of value in this world by sitting around waiting for someone to give it to you. You get it by busting your butt. THOSE are the people I want along with me on the ride to the future. Not a bunch of whiners who wait for someone else to do the work. If you don't get burned a few times replicating crap that will never work, you will never develop the knowledge base that allows you to look at something someone proposes and KNOW it's a load of crap.
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Old 11-04-2017, 12:03 AM
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reply 2

And when people EARN something, they appreciate it more. I raised two sons, and on their 14th birthday (they are 6 years apart in age) I bought each of them an old car. The first got a TR3 and the second a TR6. We spent every night and weekend and all of their extra money (and mine) restoring those cars. And the week before their senior year of high school they got the keys. They treated those cars like BABIES. I never had to worry that they were out driving like idiots. They only did THAT when they drove MY car. They learned to appreciate the value of money, hard work, and ownership.

So I don't have a lot of respect for folks who won't do the work on their own. None in fact. That is why I was so critical of you in the beginning. But you should know that I sincerely appreciate what you have done here. Doing what you did is time consuming and tedious. There are a lot of folks who should be thanking you for doing the work FOR them. I would never have done it. I have too many other projects I am working on now. I've seen what this can do and how to apply it to systems. That is where I am working now, and this is kind of a step backwards from what I am focused on.

For some reason it restricted the size of my post so I had to do it in two parts. I guess I talk too much.
Dave
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Old 11-04-2017, 12:27 AM
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11/3/17 (5th day) 29th bat switch

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  #87  
Old 11-04-2017, 01:10 AM
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Here is a kind of tutorial on how I do my battery load test in order to find a battery Watt/hr capacity.
It's a long video so you may want to make popcorn before it starts!

Link to video: https://youtu.be/eAAIdIslx9w

Update videos will follow

Luc
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Old 11-04-2017, 01:20 AM
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11/3/17 (5th day) 30th bat switch

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Old 11-04-2017, 01:30 AM
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Short update on first new battery load test

Link to video: https://youtu.be/sDEmqZ9kgx8
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Old 11-04-2017, 03:35 AM
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And when people EARN something, they appreciate it more. I raised two sons, and on their 14th birthday (they are 6 years apart in age) I bought each of them an old car. The first got a TR3 and the second a TR6. We spent every night and weekend and all of their extra money (and mine) restoring those cars. And the week before their senior year of high school they got the keys. They treated those cars like BABIES. I never had to worry that they were out driving like idiots. They only did THAT when they drove MY car. They learned to appreciate the value of money, hard work, and ownership.

So I don't have a lot of respect for folks who won't do the work on their own. None in fact. That is why I was so critical of you in the beginning. But you should know that I sincerely appreciate what you have done here. Doing what you did is time consuming and tedious. There are a lot of folks who should be thanking you for doing the work FOR them. I would never have done it. I have too many other projects I am working on now. I've seen what this can do and how to apply it to systems. That is where I am working now, and this is kind of a step backwards from what I am focused on.

For some reason it restricted the size of my post so I had to do it in two parts. I guess I talk too much.
Dave
Dave without you we would not have known what a 3 battery system is, you
have done your job and no one can take your place. Now what we need
are more people to verify what Luc has done. Without another witness
the skeptics will tear Luc to ribbons.

Luc is all alone so I will be doing some of these types of video's in the
future as my time permits. The world is going to be turned upside down
as time goes by with the release and documentation of this system.

Luc has taught us some things about doing these tests, even the pulsing
measurements can be had properly. My son 14 years is being taught what
Luc is showing as we home school.

My watt hour meters cost me $25 bucks for 3 of those wow wee, isn't
that cheap, but the time it takes to run video every hour would be
impossible for most. Don't be down on yourself.

I wanted to be the first show off in town to prove free energy to the
world but I can't do it yet. Luc beat me to the punch
I feel the same way but we are not all the same so remember the old
saying "it is what it is"?

Someone should crunch all the video's into one for each set of tests.

others who have big money should fund Luc in the prime of his life as he
is still young and needs this job. Please. Thank you and I am here with
you guys watching very attentively.

Don't be concerned about the low numbers of views or followers, a
snowball turns into a giant avalanche. Like you pointed out before
people with batteries and solar can now up their capacity.

Even a small child can get the extra now, without all the complication.

Many young minds will take the ball and run with it.

__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 11-04-2017 at 03:38 AM.
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