Quote from bistander:

Magnetic force is not "Henrys". It is not measured in "Henrys".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uP2xEKH4qdc


Here's an example of a bifilar coil in self resonance that is spontaneously building a magnetic field that is measured in "Negative Micro Henrys":

__________________
 

I have. I cannot find why it is named or called "zero force". It obviously does have force(s) associated with it. Why call call it zero? Can you answer that? Or provide a link which addresses the zero part. I've watched John B explain how it works. He even talks about mechanical load and torque, which indicates non-zero force.

Thanks,

bi

__________________
 

Hello again,

Let me say this again. I am NOT trying to make a "Zero Force Motor". I built the motor I built for the purposes of experimentation. I only posted the video of it to this thread to show Bro. Mikey that an air-cored motor will not run away and does in fact have BEMF.

I appreciate your input about my motor but I have already established my goals and procedures for what I want to accomplish.

As far as your comment about the coils not being transformer coupled because they are air cored, that is incorrect. Air cored transformers are regularly used in RF circuits. And they do not induce corruption or make a mess of the signal.

Respectfully,
Carroll

__________________
Just because someone disagrees with you does NOT make them your enemy. We can disagree without attacking someone. This means YOU especially BroMikey.

"I am NOT trying to make a "Zero Force Motor". I built the motor I built for the purposes of experimentation."
I thought so also. Becauce of NSNS. My build inspiration comes now from the "Adams motor".

"I appreciate your input about my motor but I have already established my goals and procedures for what I want to accomplish."
Good!

"As far as your comment about the coils not being transformer coupled because they are air cored, that is incorrect. "
More or less. I assume, at these low motor frequencies just high freq. spikes will "jump" over! ("jump"= incorrect word )

"Air cored transformers are regularly used in RF circuits."
I know I have been working with radio most part of my life. Not electrical motors.

"And they do not induce corruption or make a mess of the signal."
But together with the switching transistors they do so in the simulation with somewhat weak coupling.
Does your signals on the output coils mirror the gates signals, on the bench?

Respectfully
Arne

__________________
 

Hi Arne,

In answer to your last question about distortion of the signal applied to the base of the transistors let's look at the schematic. As you see I am using an opto-coupler to apply the signal to the base. I am doing that so that my transistor does not spend much time in between on and off. The opto-coupler gives me very quick on and off times.

If you look at my scope shot you can see the area that looks solid during the on time of the pulse. If you were to expand the scope shot to better see the solid area you would see it is actually made up of a bunch of 2.5 khz pulses. And each pulse is very nearly a perfect square wave at that frequency. If I increase my frequency to about 10 khz or so then I do begin to see some distortion and my output from my generator winding also begins to drop. The signal shown on the scope shot is from the generator winding so it will show if there is any distortion from the air-core coupling.

Thanks for your interest.

Respectfully,
Carroll

One added thought is that maybe the simulation does realistically show the proper coupling of the windings because my coil is actually a trifilar coil and not two separate air coils.

__________________
Just because someone disagrees with you does NOT make them your enemy. We can disagree without attacking someone. This means YOU especially BroMikey.

Hi Citfta

Thanks. It's good to have some feedback from reality so I get a feeling of how much I can trust the simulations.

Regards
Arne

__________________
 

It is a zero vector motor - it is a neutral line motor. These are synonymous with zero force motor and are the original terms John used to name it. It is a reference to the magnet's bloch wall.

__________________

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtGz4QHJ0e4

__________________
 

My goal from the beginning of the ZFM project is to run it on the three battery methodology and have it turn the Kromrey generator.

Turion evidently has a similar thought.

__________________

Yes but my problem is that I can't explain the difference between
how a standard pulse motor with iron works vs a zero force one.

These are the characteristics

#1) I know that it runs high RPM's
#2) I know it has no iron
#3) I think the right hand rule does not apply
#4) I know it runs on low amps due to zero iron
#5) I know that by comparison "there is no BEMF associated with it"
#6) Small on torque

These are a few things i have heard but to go to the heart of what
sticks out i am unsure of why this mtr is special. Maybe i forgot something?

__________________
 

Post #31 tells me to build it and see, it also says to get a flywheel.
The other statements relate to high RPM's so I was right i guess.

In other words there are no explanations yet until more builders
come forth. I like the part about this mtr is just as good as the
Matt Mod Mtr where is does the magic on all the batteries. Not
much of a theological expose but is good enough for me.

On the contrary I don't think that basic requirements or assessments
will bore everyone to sleep so they don't come back to this thread, I
think it is the reason why so many threads lay dormant due to the
lack of reaching a common understanding of what is being suggested.

Hardly anyone will build it. How many do you know building the
Matt Mod Mtr? Zhit- ain't nobody gonna build it especially if they
don't know what it is for.

Your delivery is most exciting, your approach is "THIS IS WHAT IT DOES"
"BUILD IT" telling everyone that it is a good one. Coming from you I would
have to say that it is.

Still I have no clue why.

__________________
 

Felix Bloch (1905-1983) was Stanford's first Nobel Prize winner, 1952 for work in nuclear magnetic resonance techniques. From: Felix Bloch facts, information, pictures | Encyclopedia.com articles about Felix Bloch

From the International Electrotechnical Commission:

IEC 60050 - International Electrotechnical Vocabulary - Details for IEV number 121-12-55: "Bloch wall"

Words have meaning. "Bloch wall" was used, and had and still has a specific meaning which has little or nothing to do with John Bedini's discussion of an air core coil. John should have called it a Bedini wall.

To me it seems like he did the same thing with "force" and "vector", both are words which already had definitions, and are non-zero in his motor. I have nothing against the thing other than the misuse of terminology. I like see to folks experimenting with electric machinery. I've done so myself for decades and picked up a fair amount of knowledge about the machines and related physics. And I'm willing to share.

Regards,

bi

__________________
 

The Bloch Wall is giving a reference to a specific location on a magnet between the poles - that is what it is called by definition. That definition includes an OPINION of what it is and how it operates - nothing more and nothing less like countless other definitions in physics, astronomy, agriculture, etc... that for the purposes of identification, we know what they are regardless of the fact that many of the definitions to define such things are completely WRONG. It is only called a Bloch Wall because of someone's name and in the mind of the conventional viewpoint, that person must automatically know more about the intrinsic nature of it, which is never the rule - in reality.

Whether it is what the conventional viewpoint is or not is one issue and a completely other issue is how John Bedini sees that Bloch Wall operating. No matter what, we know that we are talking about the place on the magnet between the poles and that is indisputable. What is also indisputable is that John Bedini has his own viewpoints, right or wrong, about what is happening at that Bloch Wall, period.

Based on John's viewpoints of what happens there is at the premise of many of his magnetic models and that is also indisputable. Whether he is right or wrong is one issue and is completely separate and irrelevant from the issue of what his viewpoint is.

Now that we know what his viewpoint is, in whole or in part, the Zero Force Motor is a reference to a motor that has a significant if not the most significant relationship with the Bloch Wall of the coils surrounding the rotor and this is also indisputable.

Yes, words have meaning and for good reason but when a word identifies something that is supposed to have a certain meaning based on how it is perceived to operate and we come to a better understanding, then we clarify that definition by upgrading it which John did quite well in brief in the video that Bodkins posted. Noone is required to agree with that understanding.

The same issue exists with the definition of COP or coefficient of performance. I can't tell you how many engineers have tried to argue over the years that it can only apply to heat pumps even though the fact is that it is a ratio between output work compared to what we provide excluding free environmental input - that does not mean we need to create a completely different word (or phrase) for mechanical systems that create more work than we have to input, it doesn't include electrical systems that create more work than we input, it doesn't include chemical systems that create more work than the sum of the input chemicals on their own, etc. We can still use the term COP because it is a reference to a concept or a thing, etc... and we understand that. Therefore, we can expand the definition to go beyond heat systems and can use COP to explain the performance of all systems that produce more work that we have to input.

This is the same thing as Bloch Wall - we know it is that place where the polarities separate so John uses that definition because it is common sense about what he is talking about is a place on a magnet then he goes on to explain how he thinks it operates - very simple.

It shouldn't be called a Bedini Wall because he didn't discover a new place on a magnet, just a way that an already known place on a magnet may actually operate, which is different than originally thought.

You can't define an elephant by grabbing it's tail or its leg, which is analogous to looking at John call this motor the Zero Force Motor, Zero Vector Motor, etc... you have to look at his work holistically and take the entire thing into account as one whole system. Otherwise, you're defining an elephant by only grabbing its leg.

So again, research it, look at John's whole model and see it from his own perspective instead of your own.

__________________

Okay Okay I got it. Not bad, that sums it up nice and
easy for guys like me to understand the "WHY" ya know not just another
mtr but one with those characteristics should be an advancement.

When I run my SUUL coils the motor needs to go fast. Can one of these
run at normal speeds say 3000-6000rpm's? Or does it need to go over
10,000 rpm's or like Yaro said his runs 13,000? Can they be slowed down
some from 13 grand and still get the energy effect?

In other words does each zero motor build have to reach a specific node
(or as it is called Sweet spot) to be effective?

What if I wanted to run half that speed? That would still be double
the r's of what I got now. The thing is I don't know if I can get the
money for all that machine work for high tolerances.

__________________
 

Hi All --

The easiest way to keep the RPM's down is to keep the voltage input to
the Bedini-Cole circuit under 36 volts. Since everyone will build their Zero Force Motor slightly different the resonance point where your motor coil goes into a 2500 RPM jump in just a few seconds is the scary part. Depending on the reed switch timing I can make my Zero Force Motor do this at 40 volts or at 55 volts. I have pushed the voltage up to 66 volts but only for a few seconds before backing the voltage off. I have had two events where the magnets few off even though they were glued on with some strong epoxy. To get to the higher voltages without using batteries I made a power supply that will go up to 180 volts DC with an adjustable AC input. My Zero Force Motor will start to spin at 2.7 volts. Currently I am working on a special Pulse Width Modulator board to control the speed of the motor. I am looking into buying some shaft to shaft hook up pieces to hook my Zero Force Motor up to a Volkswagen Alternator. Take a look at my YouTube Channel for my videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiMZZ0_0X10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRfm5lFc3TI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utjk-PT7mFo


-- James

__________________
 

Hi Aaron,

How do I know what you mean by indisputable without researching you, looking at your entire body of work and seeing it from your perspective instead of my own, which is logically derived from creditable definitions and worldwide body of literature, language and general understanding? Felix Bloch was a distinguished scientist who won a Nobel Prize, had a lecture hall named after him at Stanford and was the first director of CERN. Using his name for whatever reasons Mr. Bedini had is quite different than redefining COP. It is disrespectful IMO.

But let's discontinue this sidetrack. Thankyou for your responses. I'll try to not let established word definitions influence my opinions of John Bedini's work.

Regards,

bi

__________________
 

Nice going James, you are one of very few with an open hand. You show
your build, tell how it works, tell how to control it and shows what it does.

You are master electronics man also. Genius

__________________
 

yes very good post keeps my mind on the subject matter. I have been
thinking about where i am going in terms of tolerance. Here is a quote
on electric motor air gaps. .010" is a standard

The air gap Lg (Fig. 5.100) should be chosen to give the greatest torque per stroke. This approach will, however, tend to make the air gap length small. T. J. E. Miller (1993) recommends that it be about 0.05 percent of the rotor diameter. This tends to produce air gaps in the 0.007- to 0.010-in range for small motors. This can lead to manufacturing problems and increased costs in commercial-type motors because tight tolerances will be required on many parts. Holding a 0.010-in air gap is very feasible in most manufacturing situations and is a good initial selection. Small air gaps increase torque but also increase audible noise.

__________________
 

Although there was a whole paper on the subject of the entirety of the b field of a magnet and the force that is included, I cannot find it. This question and answer cover the naming of this motor as a zero force motor.

Question
Answer "Resulting forces is the key word"

If you close 4 electromagnetic coils into a loop or a gapped loop all force exerted from the poles is neutralized. Since the poles cancel each other there is no Lorentz force exerted. IE "Zero Force" Lorentz force being the force calculated when push or pull occurs in a magnetic Pole.

Just because Lorentz force is canceled does not mean that all flux from the coil is neutralized. When the permanent magnet of the motor is perpendicular the wire in the coil 50% of it flux is opposed to the flux generated in the wire and the B Feild. This is the portion of the permanent magnet that drives the zero force motor.

Howard Johnson extensively researched this reaction in permanent magnets for continues rotary motion.

Matt

__________________
ADD BROMIKEY TO YOUR IGNORE LIST He is a saboteur bent on the systematic distraction of every good topic on this forum and since he has been here most working threads have shut down. He is the enemy. If you have blocked him already add this to your signature and encourage others to block him as well. His onslaught of rambling in large text and his constant attempts to misinform at the excuse of being stupid should no longer be tolerated.

USER CP/Ignore list.

I believe Floyd Sweet wrote a paper on that topic. John was also not always consistent with his own definitions even though he knew what he meant. If you asked him about the zero force reference, he would point to the center of a magnet. And the Earth's degree of tilt relative to the sun was important to him and is why in the ZFM diagrams and other coil diagrams he always draws that diagonal line through the Bloch Wall.

For anyone interested, this is where I tried to get some discussion going about John's magnetic model since I have all his old lab notes on the subject that were never released. John Bedini's Magnetic Model They'll all be published in due time.

The origin of this Neutral Line motor was around the same time as his Space Flux Motor (the one in the glass case) and appears to be all pre-Ron Cole time.

__________________

Good stuff Aaron I often wondered why John always drew his zero
line crooked in the center of the magnet. I would look at that sometimes
and try to see if the line was allowing more room on the north or the
south and it did, then the next time it looked like there was more toward
the south magnet.

I just din't get that. I heard john say if it was day or night made a difference.

__________________
 

On an 8 magnet SG, you may have heard him always reference the 23 degree - you can see it written at the bottom of the wheel) - that is an analogy to the Earth's 23.5 degree tilt. And that is significant to the interaction of the "scalar" magnetic fields between the magnets and the coils magnetic field.

__________________

John was the one that told us that originally in the Bedini Monopole 2 group when he first showed that video of the motor with the iron pipe. Maybe 05, 06 time frame. Those groups have long since been shut down. But I remember it well because that was one of the few times I ever got straight answer out of him. He said there is no force exerted on the magnet, the magnet rides the flux lines on the side of the coil. He talked about the switching a little bit, switching direction at the center, then he never talked about the thing again until he started showing the printed models.

Matt

__________________
ADD BROMIKEY TO YOUR IGNORE LIST He is a saboteur bent on the systematic distraction of every good topic on this forum and since he has been here most working threads have shut down. He is the enemy. If you have blocked him already add this to your signature and encourage others to block him as well. His onslaught of rambling in large text and his constant attempts to misinform at the excuse of being stupid should no longer be tolerated.

USER CP/Ignore list.

All good input gentlemen, John Bedini did us all a favor by lighting
our way, that was his best under the circumstances.

Looking around i see machine materials. Tolerances could helped by
using curved rotor magnets. I'm thinking machining and prices.

DOUBLE ROTOR LOOKS GOOD, HEY?



https://www.apexmagnets.com/54mm-x-46mm-x-20mm-motor-magnets?fee=5&fep=168&gclid=CjwKCAjwpfzOBRA5EiwAU0 ccN1EhXNh6tX66kQ9hC5eENT9L-wjOmtCOnHFqijz_iD5UY_NVZwiJuxoCymoQAvD_BwE

__________________
 

Bedini notes that current drops to "zero" when iron core in introduced into the coil. He says the rotor speed increases while at the same time the current input declines. Usually when you introduce iron in a coil you increase losses in the system and you would expect the rotor speed to decrease. Therefore you have a system that appears to have an anomalous behavior. Two things to notice. First, the load is very light. The only load is the bearings for the rotor and air friction. Second, we don't know all the physical characteristics of the coil with and without the iron core. Usually you would expect the iron core in increase the inductance of a coil lower the resonant frequency. The physical characteristics are not obvious but there is the obvious increase in the rotational speed to the rotor. Therefore it appears the resonant frequency is actually INCREASING when the iron core is introduced. I was hoping to find more construction details to make this more evident. If these are available online, please post a link. Thanks in advance.

__________________
There is a reason why science has been successful and technology is widespread. Don't be afraid to do the math and apply the laws of physics.

ZERO TOLERANCE

__________________
 

I concur with Matt and Turion on the firing position just past the center of the coil. Various experiments over the past 6 months verify this over and over again. By the way it appears that the angle beyond the midpoint of the coil is about 20 degrees

Matt's explanation of the B field is dead on. Initially I was somewhat stumped as to why the magnet would blow right past the coil pole end that has the opposite polarity. Again repeated experiments verified this. The Neo magnets are definitely in surfing mode.

From the length of coil on time experiments (25 to 90 degrees) the greater duration dictates the amount of kick you obtain. The best results (speed and torque) obtained were in the 65 to 80 degree range of on time.

The air gap on the YZFM is about 0.375" at the closest approach with 1"Dx3/8"T Neo's on the current Iron rotor. The greatest speed was obtained 6 months ago with an Aluminum rotor with a slightly greater air gap and 3/4"Dx3/8"T Neo's at 36 volts.

My next move, one that is already in motion, is machining new Aluminum rotors. Simple design that is easily modified for differing Neo lengths and thicknesses. In this instance I am progressively tightening the air gap to 0.180" and later perhaps even more as the results dictate. Happy to share the rotor print. As a note the magnetic Iron bar stock is very expensive so Aluminum is useful for the prototyping mode.

Following James McD's lead I will test one rotor with a rectangular 1-1/2"Lx1"Wx1/2"T at this tighter gap. Expect to be on track with this end of the month or early next.

I will use the Loctite structural adhesive for the Neo's along with the Fiberglass shipping tape,

Thanks for all the sharing and information - just reinforces my initiative,
Yaro

__________________
 

Thanks Yaro, excellent data, it is very important that we share, which
means posting specific hardware designs as well as theological
references. posting your air gap of 3/8" is great to hear about.

On rotor machining so magnets don't fall out, personally I will use a
hole saw to set the magnets. For instance my design would be a plastic
rotor (HT composite) with 1 1/2" holes cut into it. If the magnets were
3/4" thick or high I would use a rotor 1/2" thick to set magnets into.

Then place 5 circular sheets of very thin shielding metal on the back in
a laminate formation to reflect all stray lines of force in the right direction.

On the B-field talking points, I do not understand yet.

__________________
 

Hi Wayne --

The Bedini ZFM air coil is wrapped on a cut out 4 inch PVC pipe. The PVC pipe is cut down to 0.75 inches for the magnet wire to be wrapped onto. The DC resistance of each coil is 2.5 ohms. That resistance includes the meter leads. The magnet wire size that was used is 20 gauge. Each coil is wrapped bi-filar meaning two wires wrapped at the same time. The calculated resistance of each 100 foot length of magnet wire is 1.015 ohms. Each side of the coil is series together making the calculated DC resistance being 2.030 ohms. Depending on your meter and test leads you will see 0.5 to 1 ohm of lead resistance. The coils are configured in a Toroid form and then both sides are series together making the calculated total DC resistance of the coil being 4.060 ohms. The Bedini-Cole circuit is based on Audio Transistors and they have no problem driving 4 ohm speakers. See the attached picture of my finished coils. I will tell you I made my coils bigger than the original Bedini ZFM. I cut the inside wrap form to 1 inch due to my bigger gauge wire I used which was 18 gauge. I used 450 foot of 18 gauge wire on each side. My coil is one continuous magnet wire with a calculated DC resistance on each side of the coil being 2.873 ohms. So my coil is different from the original Bedini. The magnet wire bundle is bigger therefore I had to use bigger Neo magnets to induce the magnetic field into every wire wrapped on the coil form. My magnets are pretty much the same size as the SSG magnets but are N52 Neos with a 76 pound pull force. If you want all the information in a bundle you need to get the ZFM video from Aaron's web site. This video and book has all the collected information and the 2017 conference video.

-- James

Attached Images

James ZFM Coils Top View 1.jpg (159.7 KB, 39 views)

__________________
 

I am not aware of any material which can reflect magnetic lines of force or B-field. Also, the iron shielding cup shown in your diagram will shunt the magnet reducing or possibly eliminating the external field, ie render the magnet ineffective.

__________________