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  #61  
Old 10-10-2017, 12:58 PM
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Hi Ufopolitcs

I'd love to get my eyes on something like that. For someone like me that sounds like a difficult read and would take alot of digesting, but it would be worth it!

Thanks again,
Regards,
Wil
Hello Lotec,

Well, all the work from Maxwell on Electromagnetism is available on pdf's...

His First Book, which actually was trying to explain, by bringing some sense to Faraday's interpretation on his discovered phenomena was called:

ON PHYSICAL LINES OF FORCE


And I added a direct link to it, basically it is there where He starts to unveil the MAGNETIC VORTICES on the second part of the same book:

THE THEORY OF MOLECULAR VORTICES APPLIED TO ELECTRICAL CURRENTS

On this Part II, he start applying the CURL CALCULUS to determine Magnetic Force.


If you want better to start based on a nice COMPILATION of ALL THREE of Maxwell's works...where all his three papers are analyzed thoroughly, then read:

THE CORIOLIS FORCE IN MAXWELL EQUATIONS


Regards


Ufopolitics
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  #62  
Old 10-10-2017, 01:06 PM
lotec lotec is offline
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Thanks, that just went to the top of my reading list

Regards
Wil
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  #63  
Old 10-10-2017, 02:27 PM
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"The Lorentz Force Flaw"

Here is a fragment from the Coriolis Effect Book by Frederick Frances Tombe from Belfast, North Ireland on 2011...Not Andrej which I have cited before, and he is from Eastern Europe...However, both authors coincide incredibly fine about final conclusions...


Quote:
THE LORENTZ FORCE, (THE FRAUD OF)

Maxwell’s fourth equation originally appeared as equation (77) in Part II of his 1861 paper, and it takes the form,

E =μvH− ∂A/∂t−grad (Electromotive Force)(D)‡

Maxwell called the vector E ‘electromotive force’, but it actually corresponds to the modern day ‘electric field’, and not to the modern day electromotive force which is in fact a voltage.
The first of the three terms on the right hand side, μvH, is the compound centrifugal force (Coriolis force) that acts on an element moving with velocity v in a magnetic field.

The solenoidal alignment of the tiny vortices causes a differential centrifugal pressure to act on either side of the
element when it is moving at right angles to the rotation axes of the vortices, and this causes a deflection in the path of motion. The second term involves the electromagnetic momentum A, nowadays referred to as the magnetic vector potential, and it comes from the torque producing effect, E= −∂A/∂t, which appeared as equation (58) in the 1861 paper. As well as describing electromagnetic induction in a time varying magnetic field,
E= −∂A/∂t also provides the bridge which links the two curl equations, (B) and (C), in order to derive the electromagnetic wave equation[2]. We can therefore deduce that Maxwell’s displacement current was ideally supposed to be connected with a fine-grained angular displacement in the tiny molecular vortices. The second term, −∂A/∂t, just like the first term, μvH, also represents a centrifugal pressure, but in this case the pressure is transmitted by angular acceleration through the sea of tiny vortices in the form of electromagnetic radiation[3], The third term is just an electrostatic term, where  refers to the electrostatic potential.

If we take the curl of equation (D) we end up with curl E= −dB/dt, which is unfamiliar because of the total time derivative. If however we ignore the μvH term in equation (D), since it is not used in the derivation of the electromagnetic wave equation, and then take the curl, we end up with the familiar partial time derivative form, curl E= −∂B/∂t. Heaviside referred to this partial time derivative curl equation as ‘Faraday’s Law’. Strictly speaking, it is not exactly Faraday’s law because it doesn’t cover for the convective aspect of electromagnetic induction that is described by the μvH force. The equation curl E= −∂B/∂t appeared as equation (54) in Maxwell’s 1861 paper, and it also appears in modern listings of Maxwell’s equations.

Interestingly because it doesn’t cover for the μvH force, modern listings have to be supplemented by Maxwell’s equation (D) from the original list. And even more interesting still is the fact that Maxwell’s original equation (D) is introduced in modern textbooks, under the misnomer of ‘The Lorentz Force’, as being something extra that is lacking in Maxwell’s equations, and which is needed as an extra equation to compliment Maxwell’s equations, in order to make the set complete, as if it had never been one of Maxwell’s equations in the first place!

Maxwell in fact derived the so-called Lorentz force when Lorentz was only eight years old.

Using the name ‘The Lorentz Force’ in modern textbooks for equation (D) is somewhat regrettable
, in that it gives the false impression that the μvH expression is something that arises as a consequence of doing a ‘Lorentz transformation’.

A Lorentz transformation is an unfortunate product of Hendrik Lorentz’s misunderstandings regarding the subject of electromagnetism, and these misunderstandings led to even greater misunderstandings when Albert Einstein got unto the job. Neither Lorentz nor Einstein seemed to have been aware of the contents of Maxwell’s original papers, while both of them seemed to be under the impression that they were fixing something that wasn’t broken in the first place. In doing so, Einstein managed to drop the luminiferous aether out of physics altogether, claiming that he was basing his investigation on what he had read in the so-called ‘Maxwell-Hertz equations for empty space’! But whatever these Maxwell-Hertz equations might have been, they certainly can’t have been Maxwell’s original equations.

This is a tragic story of confusion heaped upon more confusion.
The aether was a crucial aspect in the development of Maxwell’s equations, yet in 1905, Albert Einstein managed to impose Galileo’s ‘Principle of Equivalence’ upon Maxwell’s equations while ignoring the aether altogether. The result was the abominable product which is hailed by modern physicists and known as ‘The Special Theory of Relativity’. Einstein himself knowing that something wasn’t right with his special theory of relativity, attempted to make amends in 1915 with his ‘General Theory of Relativity’. But he only made things worse by virtue of spiking Newton’s law of gravity with his toxic special theory of relativity. In later years, judging from his Leyden speech in 1920, Einstein realized that the aether was indeed needed after all, but by this time it was too late, because he already had a following.
All of the above work...simply and very briefly, makes us ALL understand as of why...we still can not understand simple electromagnetic Natural phenomena (like a so simple HomopolarGenerator) due to our vast limitations on the knowledge acquired from this "Master's of Modern Sciences" as are STILL considered, Hendrik Lorentz and Albert Einstein.

After all this time has passed... we realize we have been guided by FRAUDS, Kopy Katz, which tried (and unbelievably, successfully achieved!!!) to "make believe" the whole World that all Lorentz Transformations as "Lorentz Force" were part of a "victorious work" of great years of research and "re-arrangement" (understand as a "Patch-Repair") of Maxwell Equations...But, with even MORE AUDACITY...Lorentz "decided" to broadcast to the World...that Magnetic Fields were NOT Rotational, nor had any Vortexity within their structured Spectrum...when in the first place he had no idea about the Real Maxwell Theories nor Equations!!

...and so came "One Stone" (german translation for Ein-Stein) to this "Fairy Tale" and based on a Flaw built his BS SR...

Amazing!!...and understand why Andrej call it a "LOST CENTURY"...


Regards


Ufopolitics
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Last edited by Ufopolitics; 10-10-2017 at 02:56 PM.
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  #64  
Old 10-10-2017, 03:14 PM
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The Symmetryof Darkness...

Five years ago (2012) I uploaded a video:

THE SYMMETRY OF DARKNESS



And if you just watch the "Intro"...will realize that all I have written previously (about Maxwell-Lorentz Fraud)...was expressed in it...

But a deeper look takes Us at "who FINANCED Lorentz?

Where the MONEY CAME FROM to Finance such absurdity?

Simple, J.P. Morgan and Edison...

But NOW, reviewing my own work from then...I realized the FULL -BIG SCREEN- MOVIE altogether...


Regards


Ufopolitics
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  #65  
Old 10-14-2017, 12:31 PM
lotec lotec is offline
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Hi,
I have attached a diagram of a build that I have started. Brushes and slip rings not yet included. I wouldn't describe it as a technical master piece, or being precisely to scale, but hopefully it is clear enough to show the general idea.

Amazingly enough, between what I have had lying around, and what can be got from the local hardware store, and a very likable local metal fabricator, I have scrounged together the more critical components, that wouldn't exceed 1mm tolerance of what I would ideally like. This is an acceptable compromise, and I think the rest can be bodgied to make a reasonably balanced enough assembly.

The idea here is to bolt it all up nice and tight and spin it up with a dremmel, (absolute rotation) so that I can get some baseline facts that have been bothering me as to the magnetic spin issue, and whether or not the conductor needs some relaxation/reorganization downtime or not. (All in front of my own eyes.)

With this information I can look into the viability harvesting the Earths magnetic field or not depending on the outcome. Not being a scientist or a mathematician, I can only approach things intuitively. The magnetic field seems pretty weak in any localized area, but they say that it is wizzing by at over 600 km/h. To me that = (I don't know how many of these are required to obtain usable power, if they can be gotten to work.)

I also don't know what the outcome would be if they did work, in terms of mass usage, I think it is probably doubtful that enough vertical conducting, conductors could be erected to cause enough Lenze drag to slow down the Earths rotation around its axis. But if so the effect that might have on the moons orbit around the Earth, and the Earths orbit around the sun, I don't know.

Regards lotec.



Edit...I think Ive spotted a problem here. Flux coming from the center of the magnet will be drawn into the outer flux guide through both the inner and outer parts of the toroid in the same direction causing cancellation. I might have to go to a ferromagnetic axle. These are the only parts that I have that will work, maybe a fresh set of eyes might help. I want to get this right. Ideally I would have liked the magnet to have a narrower face than the toroid, not the other way around like it is now. Somehow I knew there would be a catch . Ill keep scrounging around. I might be able to come up with something.
may be able to drill out the magnet, and go to a toroid made from smaller panel washers. Cheers

Edit 2... It looks like the build using these components is off the table for now. There are only so many compromises I am prepared to make. Looking at the magnets and toroid from the front, the magnet needs to look more like the toroid and toroid needs to look more like the magnet. As long as the diameter of the front face of the magnet is bigger than that of the toroid, even the introduction of a ferromagnet axle as an inner flux guide, wont guarantee the flux will go where it is intended to.
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Last edited by lotec; 10-15-2017 at 02:57 AM.
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  #66  
Old 10-15-2017, 04:53 AM
lotec lotec is offline
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Here is an exploded, side on, two dimensional view of a more idealized version of what I would have wanted. No inner flux guide, non ferro axle, and flux path shown in black.

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  #67  
Old 10-16-2017, 02:22 AM
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lotec,
without any flux guides at all, that is what I built,
very curious what you get out of yours
did you say that you could not build it in your previous post ?
if you can't, I bet the flux guides would not be hard for me to add to my test setup. (can get to things like this sometime this winter )
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  #68  
Old 10-16-2017, 05:08 AM
lotec lotec is offline
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To spacecase0

After posting last time, I got to thinking perhaps the flux guides aren't really necessary at all. I only really introduced them as an attempt to offset the fact, that the size proportions of the components I had scrounged up were far from ideal. Then later I realized they were probably making these problems worse. Then idea sort of stuck.

No I haven't built it yet, I'm not saying that the build is off the table for me for ever, but with the parts Ive got I think it would be a waste of time. Once I get an idea of how long I will be in this town, Ill know if its worth ordering them.

Already you are way out ahead of me on this, now you've got me curious as to how yours went. I can only guess, because experience is king, but at a guess I would think that whatever results you did get would be intensified by flux guides. If you got no reaction at all I would tend to think that there is some other issue at play, but you could try them. I don't know how intensely yours would have been repelling when you bolted them all up together, that could be a problem that there is too much incoherent flux spraying around and bending back too sharply before it can do its job. Personally I would like to relax that situation using the flux guides and a sufficiently thick toroid, before I drew too many conclusions.

I know it isn't good science to attempt to get around a road block by temporarily picking up a bunch of assumptions and then running with the ball to see how they play out, especially when there are so many variables at play.

This build assumes that the flux lines of a magnet don't rotate with the device, and theoretically can only work if this is true, unlike Faraday's generator which can work in theory regardless of whether the flux lines rotate or not, due to certain complexities created by the rotating disk and brushes.

Another assumption is that the geometry is sound and that currents are all being inducted in the same direction. I think this is ok, I have put it out there to be checked, double and triple checked and then checked again for good measure, so far no one has come forward and said, I can see a problem here.

I know I keep harping on about this, because I don't want to think that potentially good builds are being unnecessarily cannibalized for their parts prematurely, but the nature of Faraday's build opens up the possibility that the conductors need some relaxation/ reorganization down time, like a hand held squirty bottle needs to be relaxed so it can fill up with air before it can make another squirt. To test for this theory before giving up on the build, my preference would be to use a 50-50 split commutator as opposed to the continuous slip rings.
Personally I wouldn't start by electronically switching the conductor in and out of the circuit because it would raise the doubt in my mind that the semi conductor is still connecting them on some quantum level. It might turn out later that this may not be a problem, and the optimum mark space ratio, can be more easily determined electronically. I have read about a couple of situations where attempts have been made to electronically emulate what goes on in the commutator, and have failed.

I know, science can be such hard work at times, If all has failed at this point, then it might be time to backtrack and drop whatever assumptions had been made, the trouble is that not so many people report negative results, I don't.

Anything you want to say about your build, you've definitely got my attention.

Regards.
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  #69  
Old 10-16-2017, 05:25 AM
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it was clear that my magnets were in opposition, but was quite possible to fight them and get them from moving (used stainless steel hose clamps)
used continuous slip rings (3/4 inch copper pipe sections)
center shaft is cardboard tube
I still have it all built and intact, so modifications should not be that hard
and got zero volts from it (zero amps as well)
not quite sure how fast I spun it, but it was clear that doubling the effect would still be nothing
if you want a picture of it all, I can email it, but can't seem to post pictures anywhere other than an FTP site (that I no longer run)
and can also give a clear dimensions and details if you want that, might be better than pictures anyway
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  #70  
Old 10-16-2017, 06:07 AM
lotec lotec is offline
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After having some time to think about it a bit more, I am leaning more toward this setup. Still I'm not 100% that canceling currents wont be inducted. At this point I'm pretty sure, but am open to opinions. I don't want to waste my time or be responsible for other people wasting their's.

The axle has been changed to ferromagnetic to create an inner flux guide as well.

Its times like these that I wish my head could swivel around on my shoulders 360 degrees. That way I could figure it out by just lying down on one side.

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  #71  
Old 10-16-2017, 06:57 AM
lotec lotec is offline
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spacecase0
The fact that you have to fight them, I don't think that is ideal, but don't know if that is the real problem.
If you could easily go to a split commutator, that could rule that problem out, if you still got nothing at all. I don't expect you to do this to satisfy my curiosity, you should only do it if you want to satisfy yours.

You've given me a lot to think about, you've got me curious. If you confirm to me you have photos of your build, I will pm you my email.

Thanks for reporting your results.

Edit... It might be better if you give some dimensions instead. The things that interest me are the inner and outer diameters of your magnets, and the inner and outer diameters of your toroid wound and unwound, and if the axle is ferromagnetic and how thick it is. If that is not too much trouble. Have some things to do right now but hope to talk to you soon.

Edit2... It is my belief that Outer diameter of the magnets has to be smaller than the outer diameter of the toroid AND the inner diameter of the magnets has to be bigger than the inner diameter of the toroid, otherwise the flux will go to all the wrong places, and it will be a waste of time. That's why I put my build on hold.
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  #72  
Old 10-18-2017, 02:49 PM
lotec lotec is offline
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Hi
The build is back on for now. I'm going straight to the end game on this one. Instead of slip rings I'm using a big pair of brass nuts. I am hoping to make and break the circuit 16 times per revolution. Ive made some other bits too, but I still think it is a couple more days until testing.

I have braced myself for the fact that these types of things just don't work, although its hard to explain why. But I still reckon its worth a go.

cheers

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Old 10-18-2017, 10:58 PM
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my dimensions,
toroid core 34mm thick, 78mm outside dia., 41mm inside dia.
toroid finished size is 38mm thick, 83mm outside dia., 37mm inside
magnets 21mm thick, 85mm outside dia., 32mm inside dia.


86 turns on toroid (evenly spaced). toroid core is foam, cardboard, and tape.
my center shaft is cardboard, and 2 continuous slip rings on it
magnets are ceramic
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  #74  
Old 10-19-2017, 12:18 AM
lotec lotec is offline
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I hope getting those measurements wasn't too much trouble. I'm sorry I've made a very big mistake. This idea can never work, not without magnetic shielding for the wire on the inner and outer faces of the toroid. When the flux goes into the toroid it makes current one way, when it comes out it makes current the opposite way. I thought someone would have tuned me up a bit sooner.

I'm really sorry, Its one thing to waste my time, but it's much worse to waste other peoples.
Maybe one day people can get over the counter, toroids with the shielding built in, and the person winding can thread the wire through. If it worked it would probably only need 10 or 20 turns.

regards.
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  #75  
Old 10-19-2017, 02:21 AM
lotec lotec is offline
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Here is a really rough picture, looking down on a (proposed) toroid with inner and outer shielding built in. The wire has been threaded through the holes. This might work with the magnets in repulsion. There is probably math that uses sines or cosines to show one side of the toroid would induct more a bit more powerfully than the other.

I wont be holding my breath waiting to get these over the counter anytime soon.

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  #76  
Old 10-19-2017, 05:17 AM
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not a waste of time at all,
others have suggested that the outer conductor (the stationary one connected to the outer brush) is why the homo polar generator works
and seems to me like the tests are proving this true
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Old 10-19-2017, 11:38 AM
lotec lotec is offline
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not a waste of time at all,
others have suggested that the outer conductor (the stationary one connected to the outer brush) is why the homo polar generator works
and seems to me like the tests are proving this true
I'm not sure I understood that,, Does that mean others might have suggested something the same as what I might have suggested, or is there some stuff I need to rethink. Until I have working device, I'm prepared to rethink everything,
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Old 10-19-2017, 03:49 PM
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just saying that theory is not doing us much good here,
so, seems like a good plan to just keep trying things till we figure out what works.
then we can match a theory to it after it is physically working
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Old 10-22-2017, 12:13 AM
lotec lotec is offline
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Here's a look inside before it gets bolted up.

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Old 10-26-2017, 02:03 PM
lotec lotec is offline
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A Bit more about this build, now it is nearly ready for testing. Ive stayed with the concept of a wound torioid sandwiched between two magnets, N or S facing inwards or opposing.

Having come to the conclusion that flux cutting wire while entering the toroid makes opposing currents to flux cutting wire coming out of the toroid, giving a net result of zero, I should say something about the strategy this build uses to attempt to overcome this issue.

It seems to make sense to me, that if trying to magnetically shield the wires in regions where induction is not want wanted, the best place to do this the outer face windings where there is more surface area to play with, in terms of making lower reluctance pathways around the wire.
Thats why Ive gone for the outer flux guide and end guides, to draw the flux outwards where the windings are embedded into the toroid. Because the magnets I have at hand overhang a bit in the middle any stray flux should be drawn into the toroid through the inner face, so that is a bonus.

Sometimes I wonder, did I back the right horse with this build, in terms of, lines of force rotating with the magnets, and will my attempts at shielding the areas of the toroid that cause cancellation, be enough to even show a voltage of any description. In terms of dimensions of components and strategies for shielding, there is so much room for improvement.





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  #81  
Old 10-27-2017, 02:06 PM
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Why I think it will not work...

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Originally Posted by lotec View Post
A Bit more about this build, now it is nearly ready for testing. Ive stayed with the concept of a wound torioid sandwiched between two magnets, N or S facing inwards or opposing.

Having come to the conclusion that flux cutting wire while entering the toroid makes opposing currents to flux cutting wire coming out of the toroid, giving a net result of zero, I should say something about the strategy this build uses to attempt to overcome this issue.

It seems to make sense to me, that if trying to magnetically shield the wires in regions where induction is not want wanted, the best place to do this the outer face windings where there is more surface area to play with, in terms of making lower reluctance pathways around the wire.
Thats why Ive gone for the outer flux guide and end guides, to draw the flux outwards where the windings are embedded into the toroid. Because the magnets I have at hand overhang a bit in the middle any stray flux should be drawn into the toroid through the inner face, so that is a bonus.

Sometimes I wonder, did I back the right horse with this build, in terms of, lines of force rotating with the magnets, and will my attempts at shielding the areas of the toroid that cause cancellation, be enough to even show a voltage of any description. In terms of dimensions of components and strategies for shielding, there is so much room for improvement.





Hello Lotec,

Friend, I hate to see you building something that is not going to work...So, I will go over in detail about your build versus the known Magnetism Concepts.

First, I do not understand why you did not wind the FULL toroid Core,,,and just did that little wire spaced apart?
In order to reach a Full Copper Disc Mimicking or Replication, there must be AS MUCH wire as you could get, in order to capture ALL Areas of Field.

Second...up to now, there have not been shown a PROVEN way nor a Method to actually "shield" "PORTIONS" of Magnetic Lines of Force...This Lines would go through absolutely every single existent material (mass) on this whole planet...You will find a lot of tests with "MU Metals" which are awfully expensive...and still do nada....a waste of time and money.

Edit: (Just in case I have some future arguments about my above statement) I need to cite here Faraday Cage, as a well known method to "shield" magnetic fields...Yes, it works, but ONLY if the WHOLE FIELD is contained WITHIN CAGE. And above Lotec and me are referring to PORTIONS of the Magnetic Field, or "Only Specific Areas" and not the whole thing.

The only solution to your efforts to avoid some wires not to be induced, is by either REDIRECTING these lines of force, by using ferromagnetic parts which concentrate HIGHER (but not all) flux, to DRIVE them away from the area you don't want them there...OR, by simply moving all that wire away from the area, which would lead to a different type of winding...IMO, the first option is much easier...HOWEVER, NONE of the above needs to be done IF BUILT RIGHT!!

Third, Your whole "dynamic" geometry which actually is in charge to generate induction (Conductor plus magnetic field(s)) is too reduced, too small, too narrow, and if you get any EMF Voltage at all... it would be in the nano-voltage levels, and so, you will need a highly sensitive equipment to detect it....your typical meter will not even trigger.

If your magnets are strong enough, like Neo's...then, you could EXPAND AND AMPLIFY their field DIAMETER by using much wider iron Washers, which should cover ALL Copper Conductors, in a MUCH wider Toroid. Another example of Redirection of Fields

Fourth: Your Toroid should NOT be made of a ferromagnetic material...any plastic or fiberglass washers will do...Iron Toroids generate their Induced Fields WITHIN its CORE material, so there would NOT be part of the exchange with outer Inducing field(s).

The conductor LENGTH, measured from outer circumference to inner is directly related to greater output, and NOT the HEIGHT based on disc thickness.

Magnetic Induction is an exchange of actions-reactions between Inducing and Induced Fields, and actually MOST of this exchange takes place SPATIALLY.

In the case of this Homopolar Generator, there are only ONE Inducing Field with ferromagnetics, the magnet(s) while the single copper disc, is just what it is...a copper disc, NOT a "sandwiched" two copper disc with inner iron disc in the middle...the minute you do that...it will cancel induction.

You are doing just that "sandwich option" by using an iron toroid wrapped with copper wires.

You MUST Visualize the invisible fields in your builds...

Use first just N-S Chains, NOT Repulsion!...why use repulsion if the "OEM" (Faraday Device) never used NEITHER TWO Magnets, MUCH LESS two in opposition?

Try to keep it simple friend...it is NOT a way to complicate builds by adding MORE stuff which was NEVER on the original platform, out of which...we do not even know why and how it REALLY works, even being SO simple as it was?.

Rotating the Magnet in your geometry will NOT, rotate the lines of force...it has been proven since the old days... and unless that now you are still not convinced...I don't see the point to doubt this fact....

Spinning magnet with static conductors will generate zero volts...spinning both will make volts...spinning conductors and static magnet will also make volts...isn't that enough proof that, no matter how fast you spin that magnet ALONE...its field will not even notice there is a rotation going on?

Magnetic Fields have absolutely NO INERTIAL-PHYSICAL MASS, therefore, COULD NOT, EVER, be triggered or engaged by a PHYSICAL ROTATION based on COMMON*, CONCENTRIC ROTATIONAL AXES.

*Common, Concentrical Axes, understood as Rotation Axis PLUS Magnetic Field Axis (which could be also defined as the "B-Field" Vector) where BOTH Axes are common or using the same space.

Rethink it...then build it right...just my opinion friend.

Sorry about long post, and hoping it will help you in your development...


Regards


Ufopolitics
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Last edited by Ufopolitics; 10-27-2017 at 03:45 PM.
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  #82  
Old 10-28-2017, 02:43 AM
lotec lotec is offline
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Hi,
I said in one of my previous posts that reporting negative results can be helpful, although it can be embarrassing I am following through with that. I thought my experiments were getting better not worse, showing things like no particular or usable gains here or there. Its been a while since Ive done an absolute fizzer, but in my mind this one qualifies.

Although no absolute conclusions can be drawn from that device, I'm finding it more and more tempting to entertain the idea that the magnetic lines of force do rotate with the magnet and where they cut the outer brush or the wire attached to it (depending), that is the source of the induction. Following on from that reasoning the disk just becomes a way to complete the circuit, as long as it is rotating with the magnet, otherwise it would become a source of induction for opposing or canceling EMF's.

In hindsight, I find this idea to be a bit more digestible, than some of the others Ive entertained in the past.

Regards.
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  #83  
Old 10-28-2017, 04:23 AM
lotec lotec is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
Hello Lotec,
Friend, I hate to see you building something that is not going to work...So, I will go over in detail about your build versus the known Magnetism Concepts.
Hello Ufopolitics,
Thanks I appreciate that, and I take your suggestions very seriously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
First, I do not understand why you did not wind the FULL toroid Core,,,and just did that little wire spaced apart?
In order to reach a Full Copper Disc Mimicking or Replication, there must be AS MUCH wire as you could get, in order to capture ALL Areas of Field.
That was done as an attempt to divert as much flux as possible away from the windings on the outer face of the toroid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
Second...up to now, there have not been shown a PROVEN way nor a Method to actually "shield" "PORTIONS" of Magnetic Lines of Force...This Lines would go through absolutely every single existent material (mass) on this whole planet...You will find a lot of tests with "MU Metals" which are awfully expensive...and still do nada....a waste of time and money.
That interesting to know, Ill be thinking very seriously before splashing out. It probably will never happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
The only solution to your efforts to avoid some wires not to be induced, is by either REDIRECTING these lines of force, by using ferromagnetic parts which concentrate HIGHER (but not all) flux, to DRIVE them away from the area you don't want them there...OR, by simply moving all that wire away from the area, which would lead to a different type of winding...IMO, the first option is much easier...HOWEVER, NONE of the above needs to be done IF BUILT RIGHT!!
Having the wires spaced out like that and embedded into an air gap that were cut into the toroid, was the attempt to divert as much flux away from them as possible, but I agree, you've confirmed most of the doubts I had about that process. To help seal the deal I could have cut slits into the outer flux guide, corresponding to those groups of windings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
Third, Your whole "dynamic" geometry which actually is in charge to generate induction (Conductor plus magnetic field(s)) is too reduced, too small, too narrow, and if you get any EMF Voltage at all... it would be in the nano-voltage levels, and so, you will need a highly sensitive equipment to detect it....your typical meter will not even trigger.

If your magnets are strong enough, like Neo's...then, you could EXPAND AND AMPLIFY their field DIAMETER by using much wider iron Washers, which should cover ALL Copper Conductors, in a MUCH wider Toroid. Another example of Redirection of Fields
I couldn't agree more with that, you've elaborated precisely my concerns I mentioned in a previous post, about the dimensions of the components. By rights I shouldn't have entered into the build with those levels of compromise. Maybe doing that was better than wasting time and money at the pub betting on the horses. I have to go back to work in a few days and I didn't have time to wait for ideal parts, so it was that or nothing, so I took a gamble with my time. The negative result I posted in my previous post is by no means absolute and could possibly be attributed to any or all of the compromises I was forced to make.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
Fourth: Your Toroid should NOT be made of a ferromagnetic material...any plastic or fiberglass washers will do...Iron Toroids generate their Induced Fields WITHIN its CORE material, so there would NOT be part of the exchange with outer Inducing field(s).
Do you mean like CMMF's? I didnt't think of that. Thanks, but wont those be generated anyway but to a lesser extent?

Youve given me alot of useful ideas to consider, I appreciate your input. Just to recap, in my last post all I did was report a negative result, not state that this build was sufficient to come to absolute conclusions about the way this world works.

Regards from Your friend
lotec
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  #84  
Old 10-28-2017, 04:52 AM
bistander bistander is online now
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Experiment

Hi lo,

I've been quiet about your experiment as I wasn't certain of what exactly you were doing and didn't want to interfere or distract. But now that it is over, I'll throw in this. The conclusion and tempting reasoning which you describe below is what part 2 of that video disproves. And yes, that is hard to digest.

Thanks for sharing.

bi

Quote:
Originally Posted by lotec View Post
...
Although no absolute conclusions can be drawn from that device, I'm finding it more and more tempting to entertain the idea that the magnetic lines of force do rotate with the magnet and where they cut the outer brush or the wire attached to it (depending), that is the source of the induction. Following on from that reasoning the disk just becomes a way to complete the circuit, as long as it is rotating with the magnet, otherwise it would become a source of induction for opposing or canceling EMF's.

In hindsight, I find this idea to be a bit more digestible, than some of the others Ive entertained in the past.

Regards.
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  #85  
Old 10-28-2017, 06:40 AM
lotec lotec is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Hi lo,
i
Hi bi,
That type of humor might be wasted on some people. but not me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
I've been quiet about your experiment as I wasn't certain of what exactly you were doing and didn't want to interfere or distract. But now that it is over, I'll throw in this. The conclusion and tempting reasoning which you describe below is what part 2 of that video disproves. And yes, that is hard to digest.
i
Your always welcome to interfere or distract me any time you want. A fresh line of reasoning is always a bonus. Although sometimes some people just have to see some things for themselves. I suppose calling it an experiment would be using the term loosely. It could probably be better described as a poor attempt at making a higher voltage generator, possibly lower lenze drag than some, running with the concept of non rotating lines of flux. Had the result been positive it could have supported a number of things simultaneously, or if negative, not said much about anything at all. That was the gamble I was willing to take.

That last line of reasoning seems more digestible, but that doesn't make it right, and nothing is set in stone for me. The fact that it is not in line with the conclusions of Maxwell, Kennard and "The Video" pt 2, doesn't sit very well with me either. A couple of things in the second video raise a doubt with me, like the pulsing of the current supplying the electro-magnet, the term navigation by fixed stars ( which he could have been using the term relatively), and how well known is the outcome of the interaction of a magnetic field applied to the dielectric of a capacitor especially when it is being pulsed. Just a couple of thoughts.

I guess at the end of the day working devices say the most. I just took a shot, and unfortunately was not able to deliver.

Thanks for keeping things lite,
bye bi , hope to talk with you soon,

regards
lo

Edit.......Silly question about the capacitor and magnetic field. Kennard did say rotating the capacitor alone did nothing, so his meter leads weren't being cut with flux affecting the meter , and he went to the trouble of using amber as a dialectic so it rotated with the capacitor to show the capacitor wasn't being polarized that way . So it wasn't fair on Maxwell, for me to cast unnecessary doubts on Kennards experiment.
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Last edited by lotec; 10-29-2017 at 01:35 PM.
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