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#31
02-16-2017, 06:16 PM
 Allen Burgess Gold Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,716
Zig Zag.

Here's an example of how a long track traveler can be leveraged to turn a sister rotor with a fulcrum: If it could do just this much work it would be over unity!
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Last edited by Allen Burgess; 04-16-2018 at 07:08 PM.
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#32
02-16-2017, 11:07 PM
 Allen Burgess Gold Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,716
12 magnets

Consider this array for the twelve magnets: Three times the throw and six times the force. The rotor magnet blocks can simply be twice the thickness. 6 times 530 is 3180 grams equals 7 pounds of force for 1- 1/2 inches; So, if Luc hung 7 pounds 1-/2 inches off his table top by a string wrapped around the wheel, and released it, it would have to turn the wheel 180 degrees.

This linear force has an asymmetrical relationship to the force required to turn the extra magnet weight on the axle. This disproportion may result in a self runner!
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Last edited by Allen Burgess; 04-16-2018 at 07:08 PM.
#33
02-17-2017, 12:56 AM
 Allen Burgess Gold Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,716
4" ceramic

Two of these 4"x1" ceramic blocks, recessed in a rotor at 180 degrees would probably have enough magnet strength and throw distance, to self power.
Attached Images
 HTB16PVBKVXXXXbKXVXXq6xXFXXXT.jpg (88.5 KB, 5 views)
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#34
02-17-2017, 02:38 AM
 RAMSET Gold Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: NYC and Conn USA Posts: 1,327
another Vid from Luc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqaf9a9hJAg

Allen
I did send you a PM today
thx
Chet
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#35
02-17-2017, 01:39 PM
 Allen Burgess Gold Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,716
Rotary to Linear motion.

interesting approach: The "Orbital Gear" actuator in this video, would make a good rocking gear for Luc's pendulum; The traveler rod Just needs a lever to make the 90 degree change in direction (sketch below). Once the transition to vertical is accomplished, a simple "Scotch Yoke" can serve as actuator (Below right).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H0stoFw3DY
Attached Images
 fulcrum.jpg (44.7 KB, 13 views) Scotch Yoke.png (36.0 KB, 10 views)
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Last edited by Allen Burgess; 02-17-2017 at 03:01 PM.
#36
02-18-2017, 11:02 AM
 Allen Burgess Gold Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,716
Wheel torque and sheer strength

Along with the greater sheer strength to rotary passage strength, is the sheer strength to wheel torque ratio with increased rotor magnet size. Suppose we double the rotor magnet size by 2, from 1/2 pound apiece to 1 pound on a 4 pound wheel.

The 1 additional pound would only amount to a 25% increase in wheel torque, while it doubled the lateral sheer force! This would be countered by the doubling of magnetic resistance between the rotor magnet and the traveler, but the larger torque advantage would still represent a sizable gain inside the overall comparison ratio..

This disproportionate advantage would be seperate from but coupled with Luc's 60% measurement. The combination of these two factors should deliver a self runner at some point!

Scotch Yoke:

Moving the connecting pin on a scotch yoke wheel away from the center, adjusts the yoke to a longer throw. The larger the throw , the more fulcrum advantage the pin has on the wheel.

CRANK AND SLOTTED with adjustable pin video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuTNtg7-Bwg
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Last edited by Allen Burgess; 02-18-2017 at 12:41 PM.
#37
02-18-2017, 01:40 PM
 Allen Burgess Gold Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,716
Linear to Linear gear.

I just invented a new "Linear to 90 degree Linear" gear tailored to drive the overhead "Scotch Yoke"; The bottem rack has a perforation in the center for the perpendicular rack to travel up and down through. The wide round gear is held stationary by an axle and just acts to transfer the motion: The center sketch is an overhead view. This L to L gear allows for variable throw. The only adjustment would be the connecting pin on the "Scotch Yoke" wheel! Three cheap nylon rack gears, like the ones pictured below would nearly be enough to complete the LL gear. Below right you can see how the connecting pin is located half way between the center and the perimeter of the wheel at a distance from the center that's equal to the throw. This wheel would reverse directions, like a pendulum:
Attached Images
 l to l.jpg (97.1 KB, 22 views) Gantry%20crane%20racks%201.jpg (34.2 KB, 17 views) rotor width.jpg (116.1 KB, 14 views)
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Last edited by Allen Burgess; 02-19-2017 at 08:15 PM.
#38
02-19-2017, 11:46 AM
 Allen Burgess Gold Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,716
Long gear.

Here's a picture of two long gear pinons for the 90 degree linear rack actuator. Works with 3 thin racks as pictured above:
Attached Images
 extruder-long-gear-mk8-2-300x300.jpg (17.4 KB, 8 views)
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Last edited by Allen Burgess; 02-19-2017 at 05:04 PM.
#39
02-20-2017, 01:52 PM
 Allen Burgess Gold Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,716
Linear track

Look at these toy rack and pinion gears. They supply two small gears that could be glued side to side for the actuator pinion, and one track, for two British pounds (\$2.25) off ebay: Combining the gears like I show in the illustration below right, can increase the vertical to horizontal throw ratio: This can help turn the 530 grams of force into a greater throw with only , .43" of travel! It would take 3 sets. 10, 20, 30 and 40 teeth. The gears can double, triple or quadruple the throw.

Pack-of-5-plastic-gears-cogs-and-gear-rack-various-colours
Attached Images
 s-l1600.jpg (289.9 KB, 9 views) s-l16001.jpg (245.3 KB, 9 views) Untgear ratio..jpg (86.4 KB, 6 views)
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Last edited by Allen Burgess; 02-20-2017 at 10:10 PM.
#40
02-20-2017, 10:38 PM
 Allen Burgess Gold Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,716
Magnet placement

The magnets would need to be placed 4 one way then 4 another, like in the sketch below, because the wheel would be spinning, so each magnet would move the traveler 1/8" as the wheel turned 45 degrees, then continue to be forced latterly by the next magnet of the same polarity in line with it. It would run " Klackity Klack ".
Attached Images
 synchro.jpg (48.2 KB, 9 views)
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Last edited by Allen Burgess; 02-21-2017 at 10:52 AM.
#41
02-21-2017, 04:16 PM
 Allen Burgess Gold Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,716
Staggered array.

Consider this kind of staggered 8 magnet array for the wheel, 2-1/2 times the throw and supplying constant pressure to the traveler: The wheel would "Ratchet" it's way around. A 2-1 gear ratio on the rack actuator would place the yoke pin midway between the center and perimeter of a six inch diameter wheel for a full rotation..
Attached Images
 Untistaggered array.jpg (83.2 KB, 15 views)
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Last edited by Allen Burgess; 02-21-2017 at 07:34 PM.
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#42
02-21-2017, 10:36 PM
 Allen Burgess Gold Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,716
Back to back staggered

Look at A in the sketch: When the traveler's half way, the over head magnet is positioned where it's located in B. That's why it needs a follow up magnet directly behind it before it can stagger for extra throw like in the sketch all the way to the left in the attachment below We're dealing with translating 1/2" of traveler throw into 12-1/2 percent or 45 degrees of rotation. The rotor arc needs to cover the traveler with overhead force throughout it's entire transit. The traveler can't move any further then the wheel gears allow it. It 's stuck pressing outward like a spring
Attached Images
 Double staggered.jpg (69.0 KB, 5 views)
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Last edited by Allen Burgess; 02-22-2017 at 11:24 AM.
#43
02-22-2017, 01:58 PM
 Allen Burgess Gold Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,716
Slider and worm gear

How's this for a solution? The addition of a worm gear and a horizontal NS slider connected by a two sided rack: The ten to forty tooth gear ratio increases the 1/2" throw to the 2" of travel for the horizontal magnets. This one needs a flywheel.
Attached Images
 slider.jpg (226.2 KB, 14 views)
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Last edited by Allen Burgess; 02-22-2017 at 05:01 PM.
#44
02-22-2017, 05:30 PM
 Allen Burgess Gold Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,716
Transfer of linear dispacement.

Here's a better way than the worm gear: Twin "Scotch Yoke" couplings: The vertical to horizontal ratio is 1 to 1.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz4a...oZiCk&index=62
Attached Images
 twin yokes 2.jpg (203.7 KB, 9 views) twin yokes.jpg (70.7 KB, 8 views)
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Last edited by Allen Burgess; 02-22-2017 at 07:15 PM.
#45
02-23-2017, 12:28 PM
 Allen Burgess Gold Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,716
Best design.

I think this block wheel is best with the 4-1 gear ratio and the "Scotch Yoke with the pin midway between the perimeter and axle of the rotor: A Flywheel may help smooth the ratchet effect.
Attached Images
 Finished.jpg (83.2 KB, 11 views)
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Last edited by Allen Burgess; 02-23-2017 at 12:43 PM.
#46
02-23-2017, 01:14 PM
 Allen Burgess Gold Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,716
Sheer to push pull force

This guy measures his Sheer to Push Pull force amplification at 3.33 times as much:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvLjgZWl4s8

Comment from the video:

Ima MagnetFanatic2,

"It is very easy to empirically observe that the Shear Force is less than the Pull Force in many situations. If you go to KJmagnetics and look up item BX0X0X0-N52 you will find a 1" cube magnet with a 94.6 lb pull force. If you click on the Pull Force Case 3 link you will see a log graph of the pull force curve. The maximum Shear Force required to shear the magnets will be right about 28.5 lbs. It is true that this corresponds to a distance of about 0.33 inches and this may lead someone to mistakenly believe that the total shear force is equal to the total pull force as you have to shear the magnet for 1 inch. However, the shear force is not a constant 28.5 lbs. Initially the shear force is less and it gradually builds up to the 28.5 lbs and then after 1" it precipitously drops to nothing. So just as the pull force is not a straight line, neither is the Shear Force. Furthermore, EVEN IF the Shear Force was a constant 28.5 lbs for the full inch then it is still easy to prove that there is excess energy in the Pull Force. The Pull Force chart only goes to 1 inch but there is STILL 7.5 lbs of Pull Force at 1 inch and there is still a significant amount of force after that which could be captured and utilized. In no way in two of these magnets could it be argued that the overall Shear Force is equal to the overall Pull Force. You don't even need a Push Pull meter to empirically observe this".
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Last edited by Allen Burgess; 02-23-2017 at 01:22 PM.
#47
02-23-2017, 02:08 PM
 Allen Burgess Gold Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,716
Piston

Three 7/8's tubes, Two fixed and one sheer magnet. In between, a 3/4" tube suspended between opposite polarities threaded on a brass rod. He double's the magnet strength on one end then retracts it by sheer and measures a 3.3 times increased amplification on the piston tube. Twin "Scotch Yokes" can actuate the transition: There's a "Pendulum Sheer Scotch Yoke version; This one has a power stroke, but would probably start oscillating on a 45 degree angle: Once the mechanism was unbalanced it would work to restore it's equilibrium.
Attached Images
 Pendulum sheer.jpg (51.4 KB, 10 views) Piston.jpg (53.0 KB, 8 views)
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Last edited by Allen Burgess; 02-23-2017 at 04:07 PM.
#48
02-24-2017, 10:51 AM
 Allen Burgess Gold Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,716
PM from Luc:

Originally Posted by Allen Burgess
Luc,

Check out the 3.33 to 1 sheer to push pull neo tube piston on Ramset's thread. Tell us what you think!

Regards,

Allen

Very interesting Allen

Thanks for sharing and all your posts at the Energetic forum.

Hopefully this can lead to OU

Regards

Luc

"Ima Magnet Fanatic" trips a field reversal force from inside the neutral zone with the sheer trigger: He just nudges the traveler 7/8" tube magnet into the smaller 3/4" tube magnet repulsion zone with the negative force delivered by retracting the sheer magnet below and then he measures and compares the catapult force to the back sheer trigger force. The traveler tube is attracted back inside the reversal zone by the force of the sheer magnet when it returns to center. This is a free ride and adds an additional feature to Floor's measurements:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtsHmE7_HDQ

"The magnetic ring of force is actually a magnetic disk of force. It's always located at the equator of a torus/dipole. You can stick two perfect man made magnets north to north or south to south. The trick to do this use a very large magnet and a small magnet. Force the small north pole magnet to the center of the large north pole magnet it will repel like in this video and then attract. The small magnet needs to be totally flush to the large magnet for it to attract. The small magnet will repel and flip over If any part of the small magnets rim isn't touching the larger magnet.(The rim of either pole of a magnet is where the magnetic field is strong and at the center of the pole a small circular region has a high gauss rating as well. In between these regions the magnetic field is far weaker.)".

It looks like the upper piston magnet is balanced right on the edge of the same pole attraction zone, in the retracted position; With out sticking to the anchor magnet with any measurable force. This mild sticking reduces the sheer force on the trigger magnet below.

The bonus feature of this piston is that; It re-cocks itself when the trigger's released!
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Last edited by Allen Burgess; 02-25-2017 at 03:24 PM.
#49
02-24-2017, 12:26 PM
 Allen Burgess Gold Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,716
Eureka!

Final "Overunity Design" pictured below: 4 self cocking units, triggering each other in succession. Once set in motion, this design would continue to run forever! Plenty of electrical output could be drawn just by building pickup coils around the powerful oscillating piston magents. This generator should deliver 3 times the force it takes to run itself, so it could easily produce kilowatts of power.

We can clearly see the "Trigger Sheer" magnet forcfully resetting itself at 5:11 in Ima MagnetFanatic's video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvLjgZWl4s8

This "Self Retraction" event adds a super plus advantage to the generator! "Ima MagnetFanatic" says the magnet tube glue dosen't hold up; A threaded brass rod and four aircraft locking nuts would solve that problem.
Attached Images
 Perpetual thumper..jpg (93.1 KB, 18 views)
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Last edited by Allen Burgess; 02-26-2017 at 11:23 PM.
#50
03-03-2017, 02:40 PM
 RAMSET Gold Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: NYC and Conn USA Posts: 1,327
Luc explains his test rig a bit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6sbIgr2L8A

all comments on Luc's open source work appreciated.

also being discussed here
TD replications

respectfully
Chet K
PS
Much more to come...
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#51
03-03-2017, 10:31 PM
 Allen Burgess Gold Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,716
First piston sucess.

My magnet order was cancelled due to address problems. I set out to improvise and got a working piston after a couple of hours with just materials lying around and some store bought garden stake bamboo for the anchor axle and side braces between the upper and lower piston magnets, and duck tape and elastic bands. I have nine radio shack ceramic rings three at each end held together by bamboo braces, and three attached to the bamboo axle in the center.

It's easy to just break the bamboo with a pliers after sawing a small notch. I placed a cork cocktail coaster at the base and used a 3/4" diametric neo tube to trigger it. The magnet piston starts to really bounce powerfully upon retraction of the attracting trigger magnet. The "Self Retraction" force is very powerful! The trigger has a sweet spot where there's very little effort to slide it toward you then allow it to draw itself back in. The difference in push pull to sheer is easy to feel. It works like some kind of magnet cannon. I'm trying to upload a video. Here's a fuzzy picture of it in the mean time. The tape's a little crooked on the bottom magnet.
Attached Images
 Bamboo piston.jpg (77.4 KB, 20 views)
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Last edited by Allen Burgess; 03-03-2017 at 11:32 PM.
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#52
03-03-2017, 11:13 PM
 RAMSET Gold Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: NYC and Conn USA Posts: 1,327
A sneak peek prior to the finish and test

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#53
03-04-2017, 12:42 AM
 RAMSET Gold Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: NYC and Conn USA Posts: 1,327
and now assembled and ready to chain down [incase it runs away

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsEbX8yJ91I

all comments welcomed and appreciated

respectfully
Chet K
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#54
03-04-2017, 12:24 PM
 Allen Burgess Gold Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,716
Quote:
 Originally Posted by RAMSET https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsEbX8yJ91I all comments welcomed and appreciated respectfully Chet K
Awesome demonstration of the sheer advantage. Looks like the kind of magnet piston sheer force advantage measured at 3.33 by "Ima Magnetfanatic"! My bamboo test version worked with the projectile force of a "Magnet Cannon" too! Here's a fuzzy shot showing me working the neo tube trigger under the cork cocktail coaster: I'm holding the central axle fixed down on the coaster, while the two connected piston magnets bounce up and down as the trigger magnet's moved back and forth underneath. The trigger magnet's attracted to the bottom piston magnet, so the diametric tube points the correct way automatically, and wants to stay fixed in position. This experiment proves anything will work!
Attached Images
 trigger magnet.jpg (34.7 KB, 12 views)
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Last edited by Allen Burgess; 03-04-2017 at 01:43 PM.
#55
03-04-2017, 03:22 PM
 Allen Burgess Gold Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,716
Bamboo magnet piston

I'm in a race to beat Gotoluc to the patent office:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrPi...ature=youtu.be

"A 1" cube magnet with a 94.6 lb pull force has a Shear Force of about 28.5 lbs". The ratio is 3.3."

That's the ratio Luc should measure in his contraption, same as the piston.
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Last edited by Allen Burgess; 03-04-2017 at 04:22 PM.
#56
03-04-2017, 04:43 PM
 RAMSET Gold Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: NYC and Conn USA Posts: 1,327
Patent office ??

Allen
surely you jest ?

Filing an FE patent
also known as "giving a man a stick to beat you with "....

I thought you were an open source guy ?
respectfully
Chet K
PS
your link doesn't work
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrPi...ature=youtu.be
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#57
03-04-2017, 05:27 PM
 Allen Burgess Gold Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,716
Jounce video.

Here's a second video: This build is just to show how simply it can be made with a few pieces of bamboo and some duct tape.

https://youtu.be/awL8uIrj5NY
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Last edited by Allen Burgess; 03-05-2017 at 12:44 PM.
#58
03-04-2017, 05:34 PM
 Allen Burgess Gold Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,716
Public video setting.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by RAMSET Allen surely you jest ? Filing an FE patent also known as "giving a man a stick to beat you with ".... I thought you were an open source guy ? respectfully Chet K PS your link doesn't work https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrPi...ature=youtu.be
O.K. Chet; That one's ready to go. Thanks for the heads up! The piston throw is small, but the sheer to push pull power is equally disproportionate to "Ima Magnetfanatic's" complex construction model.
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Last edited by Allen Burgess; 03-05-2017 at 12:47 PM.
#59
03-08-2017, 01:31 AM
 RAMSET Gold Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: NYC and Conn USA Posts: 1,327
and so it begins...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x_fCow3qR4

all comments welcomed and appreciated

respectfully
Chet k
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#60
03-08-2017, 03:10 PM
 Allen Burgess Gold Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,716
Scotch yoke.

Luc's setup is just right for a Scotch Yoke:
Attached Images
 Luc yoke.jpg (45.3 KB, 13 views) A-BETA.jpg (95.1 KB, 13 views)
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Last edited by Allen Burgess; 03-08-2017 at 04:43 PM.

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