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  #301  
Old 03-15-2018, 12:20 AM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Electro-magnet working backwards as a generator.

Output is a function of magnet strength, coil inductance and velocity of the magnet stroke:

https://youtu.be/hv3qEUZvFuE

The most important point is that replacing the 500 Newton Electro-Magnet coil with the 400 pound attraction force Electro-Magnet coil will increase output by a factor of 357% alone, requiring only the same measure of input power to neutralize.
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  #302  
Old 03-15-2018, 01:50 AM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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300 kg em

Check this 12 volt Electro-Magnet out; 660 pounds of attraction force: This would yield a 589% increase in output over the 500 Newton force EM coil.

50 milliwatts of input power is not going to deliver 660 pounds of attraction force from this Electro-Magnet; That would require much greater watts of power; However, the percentage of increase in output for the 50 milliwatts of input over the smaller attraction force EM would rise to that number in percent increase. The "Coefficient" would increase in direct proportion to the attraction strength of the Electro-Magnet! That would leave a lot of unused potential in the EM, but so what!

The important aspect is the "Gain Curve" that appears with the increase in EM attraction force with the same input of BEMF.
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  #303  
Old 03-15-2018, 06:32 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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EM generating power from magnet attraction

Here's a video of the electro-magnet generating power from an attraction stroke alone:

https://youtu.be/c50BP5a4Fyg

The 50 milliwatts of BEMF is not enough to neutralize the attraction force of the diametric Neo tube magnet without the ferrite rod in between to weaken the pull; However, replacing the 500 Newton coil with the 300 Kilogram (660 lbs) electro-magnet would do the job for the same input.

Either pole of the diametric Neo tube magnet will attract equally to the magnetic core of the Electro-Magnet. The Electro-Magnet produces a polarity that is determined by the position of the power wires to the electrodes. The poles need to be in opposition to release the attraction of the Neo magnet to the EM coil core. We can either turn the magnet around or switch the power wires to the EM to accomplish this. The power pulse need only to be strong enough to neutralize the attraction force, so its can be of short duration. The output connection needs to make contact for only a short time as well.

"An LED that has typical forward voltage of 2.1 volts with an associated typical current of 20 milliamperes, calculate that the LED power is 42 milliwatts".

The power that it takes to illuminate that LED from the attraction force to the 500 Newton EM coil core, is roughly equal to the power that is generated by the backspike from the 13.8 Ohm pulse coil. The question is; How much power would the 300 Kg EM coil generate from the Neo magnet attraction to it's core with nearly six times the inductance?

Here's a hint; "More turns of wire means that the coil will generate a greater amount of magnetic field force".
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  #304  
Old 03-16-2018, 11:09 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Timing

We can see the output pulse from the attraction magnet occur when the magnet reaches the bottom of it's stroke. The power pulse should follow immediately following it. The attraction stroke in the video is illuminating only one LED. The pulse has the power to a blink a thousand!

I believe now that it might help to simply position an output contact on the oscillator magnet. The problem I'm imagining involves the open circuit that would send the power pulse directly to the storage destination.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to deal with this short circuit?
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  #305  
Old 03-17-2018, 01:18 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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DPDT contact relay.

I think one Reed switch is quite enough. I have a tall pile of burned out and welded junkers right now.

I'm thinking about a DPDT contact relay that's triggered by the oscillator, not a Reed switch. Right now this looks like a pretty slick alternative. Give me some time to look into it some more. This switch, wired into a 300 Kg Electro-magnet coil and strong overhead Neo should achieve an OU COP powered by the pulse coil BEMF.

This relay is normally closed on one side. The contact between the electrodes causes it to flip over and briefly energize the pulse. Naturally, this timing has to coincide with the arrival of the BEMF power, which should be simultaneous.

It would help to interface a timer relay to produce a split second hesitation.
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  #306  
Old 03-18-2018, 04:52 AM
mikrovolt mikrovolt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen Burgess View Post
We can see the output pulse from the attraction magnet occur when the magnet reaches the bottom of it's stroke. The power pulse should follow immediately following it. The attraction stroke in the video is illuminating only one LED. The pulse has the power to a blink a thousand!

I believe now that it might help to simply position an output contact on the oscillator magnet. The problem I'm imagining involves the open circuit that would send the power pulse directly to the storage destination.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to deal with this short circuit?
In attraction mode there exists a two magnetic fields one approaching the other quickly. As the approaching magnet begins to impact there is distortion translated into the mosaic disturbing the magnetic molecules causing re-alignment of domains for a brief period. The field lines of both magnets immediately begin to straighten from their crash to recover their somewhat original field line positions.
This area of research can be described as broken and deformed symmetry by impact and is similar to plunging rather than induction.
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  #307  
Old 03-18-2018, 01:28 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Plunging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikrovolt View Post
In attraction mode there exists a two magnetic fields one approaching the other quickly. As the approaching magnet begins to impact there is distortion translated into the mosaic disturbing the magnetic molecules causing re-alignment of domains for a brief period. The field lines of both magnets immediately begin to straighten from their crash to recover their somewhat original field line positions.
This area of research can be described as broken and deformed symmetry by impact and is similar to plunging rather than induction.
@mikrovolt,

Thanks for your highly valued input. I never heard that "Plunging" term before; Is that an area of electronic research?

You're touching on something very important that helps explain the OU COP measured by Art Porter in his GAP power tests.

"Motion in the Ocean". Can you elaborate more on this subject?
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  #308  
Old 03-19-2018, 02:18 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Comment from XR IX on "zebok3" video.

XR IX

"Hey Zebok3, the throw of the piston increases if you place it just a little bit forward of the center of the coil. That is where the magnetic pulse is the greatest. If you place the magnet inside of the coil, and assure that your pulse is opposing the "piston" magnet you will see. Please see my Ed Gray replication video. I drive a piston and crankshaft".
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  #309  
Old 03-19-2018, 05:18 PM
mikrovolt mikrovolt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen Burgess View Post
@mikrovolt,

Thanks for your highly valued input. I never heard that "Plunging" term before; Is that an area of electronic research?

You're touching on something very important that helps explain the OU COP measured by Art Porter in his GAP power tests.

"Motion in the Ocean". Can you elaborate more on this subject?
broken symmetry being a term used in many areas of research.
I used the word plunge to convey the rapid compression.
The quotation " Motion in the ocean " not mine.

Art Porter presented a few videos has scope shot, developed a method to measure energy output by lifting a weight.
His relays were DPDT. I don't recall if they disclosed the output when the neutralization unit was connected or where it originated.
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  #310  
Old 03-20-2018, 02:20 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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EV Gray and Broken and Deformed Symetery.

Based on the last two comments from XO IR and microvolt, I feel a large wire coil 2:3 height to diameter ratio with a backing magnet at the base and an air core to seat an oscillator magnet midway may combine the EV Gray effect of power from the coil's center with the deformed and broken symmetry mentioned by mikrovolt. A DPDT switch would channel output as in the Art Porter design from the BEMF input, and attraction output.
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  #311  
Old 03-20-2018, 10:33 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Gray coil, backing magnet and contact DPDT relay.

I am pleased with the new ides I've received by recent commenters.

The idea of starting the polarized Neo tube magnet in the center of the coil's air core is a super excellent approach.

A backing magnet in attraction at the bottom of the coil can vary strength with a spacer. The added advantage is that the Neo tube will generate power on the power stroke, and the backing magnet will add to the output by fluctuating a field underneath it. This would generate A.C. current.

A contact DPDT relay positioned mid way would only need to pulse for a brief interval, then the relay could be normally closed on the output side for the two phases of both the propulsion and attraction stroke.

The other feature is, we can wind this output coil in excess of any inductance we can access through the use of a commercial Electro-Magnet.
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  #312  
Old 03-21-2018, 10:34 AM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Zener diode.

I'm wondering if a high voltage blocking Zener diode might work positioned between the output coil and the storage destination. Perhaps we could tailor the design to work that simply with the diode alone and eliminate the switch.

This kind of oscillator coil would work fine with a Bedini SSG wired in place of the BEMF charge battery. Bedini's trigger coil, transistor and potentiometer are a sweet combination.

Everyone can understand how a gain curve can result from an oscillator coil of heavy weight in copper.
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  #313  
Old 03-21-2018, 12:28 PM
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ilandtan ilandtan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen Burgess View Post
XR IX

"Hey Zebok3, the throw of the piston increases if you place it just a little bit forward of the center of the coil. That is where the magnetic pulse is the greatest. If you place the magnet inside of the coil, and assure that your pulse is opposing the "piston" magnet you will see. Please see my Ed Gray replication video. I drive a piston and crankshaft".
Look at all the equations, and you would think that the relative permeability of the core matters more than the geometry (where you intend to harvest your pulses) . But that doesn't make sense experimentally, how can you have a core that matters but allows access to the center of the solenoid? This means that solenoid physics is a little skewed, because it doesn't describe that you can actually have stronger magnetic field using an air core in an instantaneous pulse when you measure directly inside the solenoid. Many descriptions of a solenoid liken it to a permanent magnet outside the solenoid(which is true), but when you send a discharge pulse through a the winding, you are creating an instantaneous toroidal field, with the heart in the center. And that doesn't describe most permanent magnets because the strongest magnetic field is at the ends of the magnet.

But people see there is a correlation between geometry and wonder why it doesn't describe the force:Engineering Student Questions

I saw a video (Of course I can't find it now) of a guy who used parabolic halves of a magnet with a hole in the center of both. When he pushed a ball magnet through center, of course the poles would align on the side he was feeding the ball, but once he got it through the center, the ball would shoot out. That's where I got the idea for placing the piston magnet at the center of the coil in the Ed Gray motor, and like you I wanted to take advantage of the linear stroke.
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  #314  
Old 03-21-2018, 12:34 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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BEMF Gary oscillator

Here's a rough sketch of the BEMF gain oscillator. The backing magnet and neo tube would be in attraction. This is an amplifying inverting alternator generating an A.C. current. A physical contact can sit between the neo tube and the spring for a DPDT relay.

Other options involve winding the power output coil bifilar with one wrap for output, or wiring a Zener diode in:
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  #315  
Old 03-24-2018, 01:54 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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"woopyjump's" BEMF oscillator test video.

Compare "woopyjump's" BEMF oscillator with the schematic above:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLiUkno3tSY
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  #316  
Old 03-24-2018, 08:00 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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"woopyjump's" schematic.

"Woopyjump's" BEMF oscillator circuit schematic below shows a hand written "0.47 Farad" capacitor in parallel with his "1.3 Henry" power coil and a diode in series. Woopyjump's test proves his BEMF oscillator is doing work without increasing input draw on his prime mover!
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  #317  
Old 03-24-2018, 10:47 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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LC frequency.

Reading woopyjump's figures as .47 micro-farads of capacitance and inductance as 1.3 milli-henrys, would yield a resonant frequency of 6.4 Kilohertz. This is ball parking because the other equivalents are way out of proportion. I'm just guessing here; The LC frequency is an important factor. Anyone care to try and arrive at a more accurate rating?

I wrote and asked Laurent for exact ratings on his youtube channel. Here's a comment from the video that's relevent from "tenorsax999 JA":

"Hey Woopy - Thanks for your creative demo - its very helpful. I've just created almost the same circuit using a 1000uF/250V cap to capture the spike and drive "Helper" coils with it via a HAL sensor & SSR (or NPN Transistor). It definitely speeds up the coil substantially w/ reduced current draw. It seems the helper coil switch signal timing must have a very precise pulse width (aprx 5ms for 500RPM)".
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  #318  
Old 03-25-2018, 06:39 AM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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LC resonance.

This BEMF oscillator alternator inverter does not need a variable speed control because the maximum output is at a fixed rotor R.P.M.

Looking at the latest oscillator design we can see that we're once again seeking advantage from the wire coil. The Electro-Magnet has advantages due to core inductance, but it does not benefit from the backing magnet as well.

The positioning of a properly rated capacitor in parralel with the wire power coil generates an LC tank frequency that is un-dampened by the BEMF oscillator. This brings the input down to just the amount of power it takes to replenish the losses in the circuit from resistance.

That leaves the amplifying features of the GAP style BEMF oscillator coil; This internal core magnet oscillator along with the capacitor, inverts the "High Spike BEMF D.C. pulse" to an A.C. current. That means we can illuminate a warm and steadily shining incandescent bulb directly off the oscillator coil output. I believe this configuration will generate the most useable and highest C.O.P.
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  #319  
Old 03-27-2018, 10:45 AM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Twin GAP oscillators in tandem.

Woopyjump's test has the primary power away from the pendulum magnet simply producing a backspike that is driving the magnet rotor through the high voltage winding secondary. The secondary power coil is in parallel with a capacitor.

The LC resonance of the secondary coil and capacitor determine the R.P.M. of the rotor. The rotor has no output coil to generate power.

The BEMF GAP oscillator needs a capacitor in parallel as well, and the LC resonance should be in phase with the rotor R.P.M.

It would be possible to control the speed of the spinning magnet rotor and keep it in phase with the LC resonance of the oscillator by positioning the Reed switch over the oscillator instead of the spinning rotor magnet, right?

What would happen if we replaced the magnet spinner with a second oscillator? This is a very intriguing idea that I have't fully explored, but everyone can see at first glance the multiple advantages twin oscillators in tandem would yield.

The BEMF secondary oscillator would produce an LC resonance that would control the frequency of the primary backspike generating primary oscillator, and the coils would be of different wire thickness like "woopyjumps". The circuit would be identical to "woopyjumps" with simply the inclusion of one diode and only one contact DPDT output relay to handle both coils in synchronisity!
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  #320  
Old 03-27-2018, 11:25 AM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Bifilar twin GAP.

Imagine one bifilar air core solenoid coil: One BEMF thin wire high voltage winding with a capacitor in parallel at maximum output LC resonant frequency; The other a thick wire primary. One contact DPDT relay. A large powerful axial polarized tube magnet seated in the coil core center over a non-magnetic spring. A large disc backing magnet at the coil base in attraction, and a diode between the two coils. A power source and an output destination, or loop. A finished A.C. inverting power magnifying alternator. Voila! The "Gotoluc GAP"!
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  #321  
Old 03-27-2018, 02:42 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Twin oscillator schematic.

Here's a rough schematic of the twin BEMF GAP oscillator. The final output destination from the DPDT is not included in the diagram:

The wires between the coils just attach to the beginning of the primary coil on the right where the battery's at. The secondary BEMF coil on the left triggers the overhead DPDT Reed switch with the tiny biasing magnet, and starts the primary pulse. The windings on the secondary oscillator coil should be the same thinness as Gotoluc's secondary and the primary oscillator coil wires thicker like his other one too. The value of the secondary capacitor determines the frequency of the two oscillations.
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  #322  
Old 03-28-2018, 05:53 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Gotoluc's first BEMF coil magnet video.

This recirculating BEMF video number one of Luc's is a real classic nine years old this July:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STI3koWbzE4
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  #323  
Old 03-29-2018, 12:36 AM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Delay.

It took Gotoluc at least six years to evolve the circuit woopyjump is demonstrating in this video. The important feature at 4:20 in this video is his discussion of the delay. This may require the inclusion of a timer relay in the output circuit of the twin oscillator to work in conjunction with the DPDT Reed switch:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tag5OlvPi54

It may work best simply to place a shorting diode across the primary electrodes as Gotoluc does in his first recirculating flyback video.
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  #324  
Old 03-29-2018, 01:52 AM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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BEMF shorting diode

This original solution of Gotoluc's may solve the delay problem. I plan to build and test this version tomorrow. This may be the finished prototype. Keep it simple stupid "KISS". Of course the coil wires go to the normally closed electrodes of the DPDT switch and then connect to the storage capacitor through a diode. Video soon to follow:

Start viewing this video at 5:40 where Luc starts talking about the recirculating diodes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwE5WlHL48k&t=249s
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  #325  
Old 03-29-2018, 02:20 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Recirculating diode

I failed to get any noticable difference in measurements with the shorting diode in my morning long coil magnet strength tests. Gotoluc was using a high frequency pulse. My tests are with single high amperage pulses like the pulses Luc uses in his twin BEMF coil magnet rotor.

The twin oscillator would only need a second SPST Reed relay output switch on the primary coil to handle the delay issue. Not a huge problem.
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  #326  
Old 03-29-2018, 03:57 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Successful replication.

I changed the diode and was able to replicate Gotoluc's increased "Electro-magnet" coil strength with the reverse biased shorting diode alone. I'm grabbing a video directly to demonstrate the effect. This is an important test result!
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  #327  
Old 03-29-2018, 06:10 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Recirculating BEMF shorted diode test.

Here's the recirculating reverse biased diode magnet coil strength test video:

The 1N5400 power diode did not deliver any results; Two generic 1N4007's in parallel did: This test makes the single coil oscillator design shown in comment #324 above a viable alternative.

https://youtu.be/3u5B3-MAQcE
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  #328  
Old 03-29-2018, 10:19 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Alternator name.

I'm torn between calling this alternator the "Gotalap" or the "Gapaluc".
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  #329  
Old 03-30-2018, 12:48 AM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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DPST relay wiring.

The switch wiring is very simple. The output side is normally closed.

3 and 4 are the positive and negative coil electrodes.

1 and 2 are the positive and negative poles of the battery, and

5 and 6 are the positive and negative capacitor electrodes. This is the NC side.

Naturally there's a diode between the positive pole of the capacitor and the positive capacitor terminal of the switch. A FWBR may position there to loop back to the source battery.
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  #330  
Old 03-30-2018, 03:46 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Backing magnet field displacement.

Gotoluc's recirculating BEMF coil shorting diode and magnet experiments cannot generate any usefull power because any power from gravity is cancelled out by Lenz drag.

The displacement of the backing magnet field in the coil windings caused by the motion of the over head magnet piston accounts for most of the output in the "Gotagapillator".

The inclusion of the recirculating flyback diode alone mathematically describes an over unity relationship in this kind of magnet pump alternator.

The final COP would involve Hob Nilre's weight in copper ratio; Input to magnet force formula. The output would depend on the magnet force of the coil in direct proportion to it's weight in copper, not input. The greater the weight in coil copper, the stronger the force of the backing magnet and tube piston need to be, and the greater the output with the same fixed input. The output is not generated by the piston magnet, but the displacement and regauging of the backing magnet field.
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