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  #1  
Old 02-02-2017, 04:06 AM
tesluh tesluh is offline
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charging capacitors using the ambient background

Studying Don Smith devices, he referred many times to devices that charge capacitors, then that energy is drawn from the capacitors, or a load is placed in the earthed wire leading to a capacitor that has been charged this way. His plasma ball, plasma tube and other devices were based on this effect, though there isn't a good demonstration I have found of them in use doing as he said they would do. He was seen many times in his lectures using a handheld hv coil to excite one plate of a home made sheet metal style capacitor and had members of the audience hold a ground wire to the other side and watch sparks jump the gap.


Vladimir Utkin has written at least 2 articles regarding this effect he calls the electro-radiant effect, I have successfully recreated one of his experiments lighting a lightbulb with energy radiated from a copper plate collected with a separate coil .

While Utkin goes into great depth on the topic there isn't a "recipe" for how to use the electro radiant effect to build a working overunity device, though he does describe how the some of the Don Smith, Kapanadze type devices (and others) use this effect whether they say it explicitly or not.

I have four giant 10uf 4kvdc capacitors that would work great for this project as well as various sheet metal plates and an array of different high voltage power supplies (60 hz and hf nst's, ac and dc flybacks, a pvm400, and a small tesla coil). I also have a small plasma tube that disturbs ambient in about a 2 foot radius. and two dedicated ground rods driven for experiments like this.

I have tinkered with this concept and the more I learn about capacitors and scalar/ longitudinal waves, displacement current, etc the more I think a practical high output device could be made very easily using these principals. "Exactly how" to do it is what I hope to figure out.

Any discussion or suggestions on the topic are welcome, I will try to share here anything I learn that might help others looking into this type of device.
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Old 02-02-2017, 04:14 AM
tesluh tesluh is offline
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This photo is figure 10 from the article http://www.free-energy-info.tuks.nl/VladimirUtkin2.htm. Here a Lowglow 9500v neon sign transformer is rectified and put across a spark gap. on one side of the gap is the transmitter plate (wrapped around the tube) and on the other side is earth ground.

The receiver is the green coil over the copper plate and the red wires connect the ends of the coils to to the 7w lightbulb. another green wire is attached to earth ground.

The bulb did not light unless the receiver was earthed, also the bulb got much brighter when the gap was widened and its frequency changed. It made the strangest hiss. This has a lot of similarities to Tesla's hairpin circuit as the copper plate and the earth are both capacitors on opposite sides of a spark gap.
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Old 02-02-2017, 04:52 AM
tesluh tesluh is offline
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Here is another great article on the topic by Vladimir Utkin, Vladimir Utkin's Free-Energy Secrets - March 2012 I struggled to understand secret 1 until I realized the energy in tesla's self powered lc circuit, is increased every cycle because the field generated by the coil passes through the capacitor adding energy each cycle. Not sure how to show that as an experiment... If it were drawn differently it would have been easier to grasp.

This Don Smith book has excellent photos of his devices including his Dipole Transformer generator, a coil around a rod perpendicular to a stack of plates as a capacitor. As usual not enough information to build it but a great concept.

https://archive.org/details/24739145...ByDonaldLSmith
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Old 02-02-2017, 06:11 PM
Bob Smith Bob Smith is offline
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Tesluh,
Going back to your original post... The sticking point for me with loading up a cap with ambient energy is getting the cap to discharge. I think once we have a pulse from a discharging cap, scaling up the voltage is not a problem. It's that initial discharge at a very low level that seems most difficult.

Any thoughts?
Bob
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Old 02-02-2017, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Smith View Post
Tesluh,
Going back to your original post... The sticking point for me with loading up a cap with ambient energy is getting the cap to discharge. I think once we have a pulse from a discharging cap, scaling up the voltage is not a problem. It's that initial discharge at a very low level that seems most difficult.

Any thoughts?
Bob
high capacitance lead to more discharge time, you can try a serial resistor to control the amount of electric current circulate this also help.
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Old 02-02-2017, 08:33 PM
tesluh tesluh is offline
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Ways to discharge giant capacitors (very dangerous...) that come to mind are with a resistance as medi mentions, possibly using a spark gap, having the load attached before the caps are brought up to charge, or possibly discharged in a way similar to how they are charged. Have read about but never experimented with using voltage divider resistors to feed an inverter (basically the secondary side of a Don Smith device)

I have had these big caps charged up and could sense voltage around them a few inches away with my Fluke 90-1000v voltage detector probe.

The danger of working with these enormous caps (size of a car battery) is one of the things that deters me from experimenting without a good plan. Perhaps a smaller scale first?
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Old 02-03-2017, 02:27 PM
Bob Smith Bob Smith is offline
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Thanks guys for your response to my question.
I prefer to work on the small scale myself. Charge can always be scaled up.
Have a good day.
Bob
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Old 02-03-2017, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Smith View Post
Thanks guys for your response to my question.
I prefer to work on the small scale myself. Charge can always be scaled up.
Have a good day.
Bob
working with HV capacitor have to be done with extreme care, the following photo show a short circuited 200 UF/450V electrolyte capacitor , it's similar to normal fire or flame ... !


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Old 02-06-2017, 03:04 PM
tesluh tesluh is offline
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Indeed! capacitors and high voltage, not a toy...

Was thinking about some don smith devices and might have discovered something interesting.

Are both photos of almost the exact same configuration?

Top photo (middle device), 12v to high voltage-high frequency neon transformer, into a sort of avramenko plug type configuration, into a capacitor. Assuming the use of this device would be to draw power from the large black capacitor.

Below, hv powered plasma globe, receiver coil, connected to a set of four diodes under that plate (possibly the same avramenko like configuration), connected to capacitors, power drawn from capacitors...

I used to think the 4 diodes under the plate were a diode bridge but now seeing Dons other device I am not convinced. Perhaps that's why they were concealed instead of in the open?

I have tried the plasma tube device with plate capacitors connected to diode bridge, and caps and there wasn't useful output that I could tell.

Anyone have an idea what the output circuit of a device like this would consist of?
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Old 02-06-2017, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by tesluh View Post
Indeed! capacitors and high voltage, not a toy...

Was thinking about some don smith devices and might have discovered something interesting.

Are both photos of almost the exact same configuration?

Top photo (middle device), 12v to high voltage-high frequency neon transformer, into a sort of avramenko plug type configuration, into a capacitor. Assuming the use of this device would be to draw power from the large black capacitor.

Below, hv powered plasma globe, receiver coil, connected to a set of four diodes under that plate (possibly the same avramenko like configuration), connected to capacitors, power drawn from capacitors...

I used to think the 4 diodes under the plate were a diode bridge but now seeing Dons other device I am not convinced. Perhaps that's why they were concealed instead of in the open?

I have tried the plasma tube device with plate capacitors connected to diode bridge, and caps and there wasn't useful output that I could tell.

Anyone have an idea what the output circuit of a device like this would consist of?


maybe all the Don Smith devices show this capacitor arrangement, some expert say the capacitor in Smith device is very important maybe it contain carbon inside to amplify the radiant energy, in my opinion plasma device is only the half shown device this mean the source of high voltage generate the plasma is unknown and must be unconventional , about diodes in all the test i did the diode bridge isn't a good solution, sometimes one diode is better than 4 ! avramenko or diode plug configuration is great also.
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Old 02-06-2017, 09:33 PM
tesluh tesluh is offline
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I don't think there is anything exotic about the plasma tube or plasma globe he uses, The 18" plasma tube I have here was $30 off ebay (used) and disturbs ambient about 2 feet diameter, as measured with a neon bulb Fluke "voltage probe". I have seen a plasma globe disassembled and it uses a high voltage coil much like a flyback transformer. I believe the ambient tries to extinguish and re-balance the disruption and that causes a rush of energy to come toward and cycle around the tube/globe, harvested by the capacitor plates or the lc coil (which also has a capacitance). That's a 1 sentence way to try to describe something very abstract and complicated.
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Old 02-06-2017, 10:43 PM
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I don't think there is anything exotic about the plasma tube or plasma globe he uses, The 18" plasma tube I have here was $30 off ebay (used) and disturbs ambient about 2 feet diameter, as measured with a neon bulb Fluke "voltage probe". I have seen a plasma globe disassembled and it uses a high voltage coil much like a flyback transformer. I believe the ambient tries to extinguish and re-balance the disruption and that causes a rush of energy to come toward and cycle around the tube/globe, harvested by the capacitor plates or the lc coil (which also has a capacitance). That's a 1 sentence way to try to describe something very abstract and complicated.


the balance of disruption is the key in smith device , almost all the electrical devices we use daily produce such electromagnetic radiation with variation of strength , but energy balance is another subject... it's like how well the door is opened, in other hand there's a plenty of phenomena involved in high voltage high frequency .. if you produce one thing you may miss the other part and electricity you need both voltage and amperage ..
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Old 02-09-2017, 04:33 AM
tesluh tesluh is offline
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Yes, I recall Smith saying it was important to have the primary coil near the center of the secondary coil on his white board device for just that reason.

My latest question has to do with the "excitation spark" as mentioned in Utkins articles, I have re-read this page about 15 times as I know the answers to many of my questions about this topic are in there, and every time I read it I get an "ah-ha" because I understand something I previously didn't get, but the learning curve is steep on some of these topics. He refers to coils excited by spark and on many of the drawings he has "excitation spark" written with two free hanging ends of the coils but never seems to go into detail about exactly how spark is created and applied. Seems like half of a schematic on many of his examples.

In my workshop I have four 60hz nsts, three I bought used and had been doing experiments with them until I realized the reason the were used and removed is that there was something wrong with each of them. It was changing the results of some of my experiments because they were not working the way they should. I bought a brand new 60 hz nst with a separate gfci and rewired it so that its just a 120v primary and 9kv secondary with center tap transformer. Now when I hook it up like a basic tesla coil I actually get what I think should be the waveform/field put out by a tesla coil primary. What I am trying to say is that even though two circuits were identical, the difference between the transformers threw off the results of a relatively simple circuit.

If we are going to use a high voltage power supply to excite a coil to create these sparks, we need to know exactly what to use. Nst, Mot, obit, flyback (ac or dc), pole pig, tesla coil, are some examples of high voltage sources, with many to thousands of variations of each and other transformers not mentioned. some of the secondaries have center taps some do not, some have gfci some do not. Then once we have figured out exactly what to use for experimenting, we need a schematic (for instance if there are caps or diodes or a diode bridge we need to know exactly what diodes or type and size of caps) to create the circuit to create the sparks.


I have already successfully replicated his experiment from "the electro-radiant effect" as shown in my earlier posts which fired a spark gap with a rectified ac current, but are the sparks produced the same excitation sparks required to drive the coils in the rest of his schematics properly? If not how do we excite coils "with a spark" as he suggests? This is something that should be simple that either he glossed over and didn't cover or I am somehow not figuring out.
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Old 02-09-2017, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by tesluh View Post
Yes, I recall Smith saying it was important to have the primary coil near the center of the secondary coil on his white board device for just that reason.

My latest question has to do with the "excitation spark" as mentioned in Utkins articles, I have re-read this page about 15 times as I know the answers to many of my questions about this topic are in there, and every time I read it I get an "ah-ha" because I understand something I previously didn't get, but the learning curve is steep on some of these topics. He refers to coils excited by spark and on many of the drawings he has "excitation spark" written with two free hanging ends of the coils but never seems to go into detail about exactly how spark is created and applied. Seems like half of a schematic on many of his examples.

In my workshop I have four 60hz nsts, three I bought used and had been doing experiments with them until I realized the reason the were used and removed is that there was something wrong with each of them. It was changing the results of some of my experiments because they were not working the way they should. I bought a brand new 60 hz nst with a separate gfci and rewired it so that its just a 120v primary and 9kv secondary with center tap transformer. Now when I hook it up like a basic tesla coil I actually get what I think should be the waveform/field put out by a tesla coil primary. What I am trying to say is that even though two circuits were identical, the difference between the transformers threw off the results of a relatively simple circuit.

If we are going to use a high voltage power supply to excite a coil to create these sparks, we need to know exactly what to use. Nst, Mot, obit, flyback (ac or dc), pole pig, tesla coil, are some examples of high voltage sources, with many to thousands of variations of each and other transformers not mentioned. some of the secondaries have center taps some do not, some have gfci some do not. Then once we have figured out exactly what to use for experimenting, we need a schematic (for instance if there are caps or diodes or a diode bridge we need to know exactly what diodes or type and size of caps) to create the circuit to create the sparks.


I have already successfully replicated his experiment from "the electro-radiant effect" as shown in my earlier posts which fired a spark gap with a rectified ac current, but are the sparks produced the same excitation sparks required to drive the coils in the rest of his schematics properly? If not how do we excite coils "with a spark" as he suggests? This is something that should be simple that either he glossed over and didn't cover or I am somehow not figuring out.


maybe this is one of the most complicated aspect in this technology , there's some reason for my conclusion.. one of them is Don Smith explication in 1996 presentation, he said the spark gap isn't anything you may know , the plasma globe device show this possibility also but in Tesla term there's spark quenching technique to enhance the production of radiant energy , the following from Utkin's page :






Tesla used a strong magnet to snuffer the spark, quenching process open the door for radiant energy to enter the system effectively, in smith system there's no spark gap as example the plasma globe system, the reason for this is the spin separation mechanism , the primary coil is Don device work as a spin separator coil and this happen naturally , the electrons are well arranged and when they meet each other useful radiant energy is produced ... the animation show Don device is the following from an archived Don smith website !





in the above animation you can see radiant energy, scalar waves, the magnetic portion in right , the electric portion in left where it look like a DC pulse, standing waves is clear if you examine the photo thoroughly .



if we understand this the other part of the system will be a mere a question of time even it's not particularly easy..
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Old 02-15-2017, 01:59 AM
tesluh tesluh is offline
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Been having difficulty getting the sparks generated, most of my power supplies put out the plasma-like ionized air instead of the snappy individual sparks I am looking for, but have seen auto ignition coils made to do exactly what I need for experimenting. (you tube videos show how to make a "taser" and that's exactly the kind of high voltage spark I'm looking for). Here is a rather long video but it works. The coil is rated for 12v on the primary and this is 120v, it works but not sure how well it would work long term. The Lutron home wall dimmer I bought seems to work like a work like a relay, pulsing the primary coil. I had some 3.5uf ~400v capacitors I wired in parallel for a 7uf capacitor. Going to try this with a neon sign transformer and see if it has the same effect, they are rated for 120v ac on the primary side.


Here is the schematic at the end of the video:
https://youtu.be/L451RzeFNdo?t=890
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Old 02-15-2017, 02:28 AM
tesluh tesluh is offline
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Hoping the auto ignition coil will take the place of the yellow coil in med's drawing posted. Can anyone speculate if a particular load will be better than another for testing? For instance incandescent, halogen, neon, electric motor, resistive heat strip, etc.
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Old 02-17-2017, 09:41 AM
AetherScientist AetherScientist is offline
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Been having difficulty getting the sparks generated, most of my power supplies put out the plasma-like ionized air instead of the snappy individual sparks I am looking for, but have seen auto ignition coils made to do exactly what I need for experimenting. (you tube videos show how to make a "taser" and that's exactly the kind of high voltage spark I'm looking for). Here is a rather long video but it works. The coil is rated for 12v on the primary and this is 120v, it works but not sure how well it would work long term. The Lutron home wall dimmer I bought seems to work like a work like a relay, pulsing the primary coil. I had some 3.5uf ~400v capacitors I wired in parallel for a 7uf capacitor. Going to try this with a neon sign transformer and see if it has the same effect, they are rated for 120v ac on the primary side.


Here is the schematic at the end of the video:
https://youtu.be/L451RzeFNdo?t=890
Hello, some days ago I also tried a similar experiment. I used a dimmer and a capacitor to limit the current that can pass through. The idea was to replicate the experiment of Don Smith where you see one spark in one plate and you see an output spark in the other plate. The experiment worked.

To light a bulb you don't need to use the ground connection. You can transform single wire electricity to two wires electricity and run anything.

The question is... If I use chopped AC in the input of the ignition coil... is the circuit using reactive power? Because AC in capacitors and inductors is reactive. So, in the case that is reactive, it's 0 watts or almost 0 watts, while in the output you can transform it an get active power.
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Old 02-17-2017, 03:16 PM
tesluh tesluh is offline
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one wire to avramenko plug then 2 wires? or one wire around a transformer to ground and the other end of the transformer to power a load? Would love to hear more details!
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Old 02-17-2017, 05:29 PM
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one wire to avramenko plug then 2 wires? or one wire around a transformer to ground and the other end of the transformer to power a load? Would love to hear more details!
I mean that in the Don Smith experiment where he uses sparks in an input capacitor plate and he obtains sparks in the second capacitor plate... you can use the sparks from the second capacitor plate to run load.

How? there are different techniques. The one I have tried is to use an AV plug in the second plate. You can charge a capacitor (av plug capacitor). I have tried it. Just you need to connect the single wire AV plug input to the second capacitor plate of Don Smith. Then in the otuput of the AV plug you have 2 wires and a capacitor connected to those 2 wires, so you can charge the capacitor using the energy from the second capacitor plate of Don Smith.

Then, another option is to use the energy from the second capacitor plate of Don Smith and reverse the circuit... use the sparks from the DSSCP (Smith Second Capacitor Plate) and use it as the input to a second car's ignition coil.
You know you can send energy using single wire using 2 Tesla's coil (remember that the coil we know as Tesla's coil is a Lodge's coil, few people know this). One Tesla's coil to transform 2 wire to single wire and a receiver Tesla's coil that transforms 1 wire to 2 wires.
Something similar to this: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ARCLD3qgjmI/hqdefault.jpg

But, instead of using continuous single wire... you need to use...
WIRE-----PLATE #1---PLATE #2-----WIRE

======--------||--------===== instead of ====--------=====


The wire around a transformer is used for other different technique. The wire around a transformer is used to power loads using the A-Vector potential. It's very easy to prove this. I placed a closed loop wire around a transformer and you can read some amperage. The more wires you add, the higher the amperage. The readings can be of hundreds of amperes.

And the other option is to use the single wire output from the Tesla's coil to feed the input of a classic transformer. Then in the output of the transformer use 2 wires, like Chern.. This capacitive effect can be accomplished also with 2 wires, etc... even without wires.

It's possible to run loads without using physical ground. Utkin and Smith explain about physical ground, but you can or cannot use it.
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Old 02-17-2017, 05:42 PM
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I recall Smith saying it was important to have the primary coil near the center of the secondary coil on his white board device for just that reason.
Of course, in ordinary electricity you have unbalanced waves. That means energy flowing in 2 different directions, for that reason we need 2 wires in ordinary electricity. If you balance the energy, you can send it using single wire without return.

Smith explained that some russians discovered that 2 direction electricity form magnetism. Voltage flows in one direction, amperage flows in opposite direction. For that reason Smith uses bucking coil as the secondary of his air-core transformer. Because he need to amplify both amperage and voltage. Each component need a dedicated coil to amplify it. Check Tesla's patent where you can clearly see this.

Ordinary transformers use one coil, so you step up one component: voltage. If you use bucking coil (2 different coils interconnected) you can amplify voltage AND amperage.
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Old 02-18-2017, 03:20 AM
tesluh tesluh is offline
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Thank you for the reply, so if I have a coil producing sparks into a plate capacitor (like smiths demo), a sheet of dielectric material, another plate of metal as the second plate of the capacitor, then an avramenko plug attached to the second plate with a capacitor across the opposite ends of the plug,


how do I attach a resistive load to that capacitor and what is the limit to how much current it will generate?

This isn't me just being lazy asking questions, I have tested a bunch of different similar circuits without any successful results and trying to figure out what I am doing wrong.

crude paint drawing attached with my best guess in red

This coil must have an oscillator built in and seems to shoot sparks instead of the plasma that comes from most of the hv power supplies I have.
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Old 02-18-2017, 09:50 AM
AetherScientist AetherScientist is offline
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Have you tried the circuit you have drawn?

Well, to power a load you have different options. Like 8 or so (with and without AV plug).

Maybe the most interesting one is the one that you can see in this video where it's used something like an AV plug (modified)


med.3012 and me we have tried to use the AV plug capacitor to power loads, but it seems that the energy in some cases cannot power ordinary loads. So you will see that in some cases you get strong sparks, but no usable electricity.

Another option would be to use like an LC oscillator, using the oscillating field from the capacitor and attaching an inductor to match the resonant frequency of the LC. I haven't tried this because I don't know if the output of the AV plug is DC or AC.

Another option is to use a spark gap where you discharge the capacitor into an inductor. It's known that short strong pulses from cap can create magnetic field in inductor (read JackNoskills last pdf in ou.com)
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Old 02-18-2017, 05:45 PM
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Can you get an isolation transformer? You can also use single wire using an isolation transformer. Let me know if oyu can get it. It's very easy, you have only to change one connection.
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Old 02-19-2017, 12:06 AM
tesluh tesluh is offline
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I have not tried that exact schematic, just guessing what the circuit should look like, I had tried a bunch of different combinations, even lit an led off the output of an isolation transformer but didn't have any real success. I have a bunch of different transformers here I can try. I have a coil coming tomorrow that should put out the spark I am trying for.

I have 2 460pf 30kv doorknob caps I can use for the caps.
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Old 02-19-2017, 09:12 AM
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Check this document for single wire line:
http://www.davidpublishing.com/david...0372767921.pdf
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Old 02-19-2017, 12:29 PM
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Smith circuit

Hi guys is it possible to avoid large caps in Don's circuit?
Thanks.
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Old 02-19-2017, 06:42 PM
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Hi guys is it possible to avoid large caps in Don's circuit?
Thanks.


the cap is needed to stock the electric power , large capacitor mean large power in case you work with low voltage, if you want to avoid using high capacitor level you need to increase the voltage further more, if you mean other position please clarify
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Old 02-20-2017, 07:03 PM
tesluh tesluh is offline
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currently trying the circuit suggested by jimbo, using the positive side of rectified 120 ac to charge one plate on bunch of capacitors in series and let the ambient background charge up the rest of them. Having rectifier problems...

Also just got a little "400kv" module (I doubt it puts out a fraction of that) that has a built in oscillator. it's output doesn't jump directly to a metal object but it does ring a tesla coil primary through a spark gap good enough to get the tesla coil to spark to a metal plate.
The same tesla coil with a slayer exciter puts out a pink ionized arc. Must be the difference in frequencies. Pretty sure I just built the equivalent to what Don Smith used in his presentations (the "handheld tesla coil").

It seems like it might be very similar to Don's bertonee 12v nst he used on many of his builds.
https://www.amazon.com/Yosoo-Voltage...oost+converter
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Old 02-27-2017, 05:29 PM
tesluh tesluh is offline
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Had the idea to buy a taser/stun gun and use it for the spark to plate experiments. Having a hard time getting the right spark at a regular frequency without breaking down and designing a blocking oscillator circuit from scratch or buying the handheld tesla coil like Don used.

Currently have a capacitor charged using the "electro-radiant effect" and having a hard time discharging it safely. Even when I touch a neon bulb to it it melts the wire end. Should have a different capacitor arriving today that hopefully allows me to charge it and then safely discharge it and measure energy in and out.
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Old 03-07-2017, 09:27 PM
tesluh tesluh is offline
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Neon bulbs with resistors attached discharge the cap while its being charged. can steadily light 5 neon bulbs poorly.

When I take off all loads I can get this giant capacitor (10uf@4000vdc rating) up to 1000 volts in about 5 seconds using the electro radiant effect, apparently its not very powerful though, it will pop when anything touches it but one good discharge pop and its back down to 0 volt.
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