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  #61  
Old 09-21-2016, 03:18 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Version (2)

@VIDBID,

A side axle would still require bearings and partial center axles for the stators to spin on. The center disk could be supported by rail slides (Below). We could combine rail slides with a central axle that passed through a larger hole in the center disk just to turn the second stator.

Another option would be to use two split positive A.C. synchronous electric motors, one on each stator disk, and support the center disk on sliding rails. Twin microwave carousel motors and two sliding rails for the center disk would probably work fine; Facing each other, the carousel motors would spin the disks in harmony with a split positive from a 120volt 60Hz wall outlet.

I believe the central axle and "Linear Rotating Bearing" are probably the simplest and least costly approach. The carousel motors (Below Right) are stuck rotating at one speed.
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File Type: jpg Sliders_Features_003_Rail-based-slider.jpg (132.5 KB, 28 views)
File Type: png ac-synchronous-motor.png (114.6 KB, 26 views)
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Last edited by Allen Burgess; 09-21-2016 at 06:01 PM.
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  #62  
Old 09-22-2016, 12:21 AM
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Thumbs up Version 2.0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen Burgess View Post
@VIDBID,

A side axle would still require bearings and partial center axles for the stators to spin on. The center disk could be supported by rail slides (Below). We could combine rail slides with a central axle that passed through a larger hole in the center disk just to turn the second stator.

Another option would be to use two split positive A.C. synchronous electric motors, one on each stator disk, and support the center disk on sliding rails. Twin microwave carousel motors and two sliding rails for the center disk would probably work fine; Facing each other, the carousel motors would spin the disks in harmony with a split positive from a 120volt 60Hz wall outlet.

I believe the central axle and "Linear Rotating Bearing" are probably the simplest and least costly approach. The carousel motors (Below Right) are stuck rotating at one speed.

Okay. Check out Version 2.0.

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  #63  
Old 09-22-2016, 01:18 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Version (2)

@VIDBID,

Very nice, I can't find anything I don't like about your design. I dreamed up one final version that spins the central disk: A Bedini "Window Motor" on one end can spin a reciprocating ceramic axle magnet rotor inside an elongated winding. The ceramic axle would pass through ceramic bushings in the center of the fixed stators on each end. The ceramic axle would have rotor magnets on one end that would spin inside an "Elongated Window Coil" while free to slide in and out simultaneously, turning the attached center disk. The other side of the axle could carry the output magnets and coil.
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Last edited by Allen Burgess; 09-22-2016 at 01:33 PM.
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  #64  
Old 09-22-2016, 02:40 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Plastic linear rotating bearing.

Three of these plastic "Linear Rotational" bearings, and a 1 1/4" ceramic axle would work. The third bearing would split the window coil:
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  #65  
Old 09-22-2016, 05:50 PM
lota lota is offline
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Hello
Why don't you build the orginal? Everything else does not fit here.

Greeting
Lota
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  #66  
Old 09-22-2016, 07:22 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Original build.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lota View Post
Hello
Why don't you build the orginal? Everything else does not fit here.

Greeting
Lota
@Lota,

My reason is to try and test the operating principle to see if it works first.
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Last edited by Allen Burgess; 09-23-2016 at 01:01 AM.
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  #67  
Old 09-23-2016, 03:49 AM
Dusty Dusty is offline
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Part 2, more testing

Hi,

I've added part 2 now, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgyw...m-upload_owner

Just more testing of magnet location and a tracking system (think roller coaster)

Fun to see all you guys coming up with ideas and thanks for the nice comments.

I'm just having fun building this replication and what little contribution I might make in some way hopefully will spur other ideas.

Dusty
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  #68  
Old 09-29-2016, 08:02 PM
Dusty Dusty is offline
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Part 3, more testing

Part 3 is up.

Added more magnets, discussion on tracking system

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8Et...ature=youtu.be

Part 4 will be up in a few minutes.

Dusty
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  #69  
Old 09-29-2016, 08:19 PM
Dusty Dusty is offline
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Part 4

Part 4 is now up.

New tracking system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGjZ...ature=youtu.be

Much better tracking and less resistance to disc travel.

Dusty
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  #70  
Old 09-30-2016, 06:14 AM
DaKrampus DaKrampus is offline
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Yes dusty, that is exactly what i dreamt of!!!
very very nice...
Now i have been thinking (happens sometimes) the patent is not as a motor, but as a torque enhancer if I remember well.

Now there is another engine out there called the kundel motor, that converts linear energy to rotation.
My next thought is applying the conversion to this device... example: power it through the speaker motor.. (or any other linear motor)
but i do not know if that works..
so could you try on your device to push and pull the handle instead of turning it? would that make it rotate????

here is the patent of this "kundel motor"
http://www.pulsedtechresearch.com/wp.../06/Kundel.pdf

and here is a video where he explains the principle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNgd1ZVZtsY

Again, these are just ideas that come into my mind when i watch you excellent demo.

keep it up

Luc
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  #71  
Old 10-01-2016, 02:43 PM
lota lota is offline
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Hi dusty.
good construction. But it's not going to. You will need a large mass or a large flywheel. It is also better to have a long stroke. The cogging points need to be overcome and the energy stored to. I'm just about 20Kg. It is not running but still. Magnets 230 kg 7X1cm 12 PC.

greeting
Lota
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File Type: jpg IMG_3940.JPG (98.9 KB, 67 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_3941.JPG (99.5 KB, 58 views)
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Last edited by lota; 10-01-2016 at 05:37 PM.
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  #72  
Old 10-01-2016, 08:46 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Miller Colson build

Quote:
Originally Posted by lota View Post
Hi dusty.
good construction. But it's not going to. You will need a large mass or a large flywheel. It is also better to have a long stroke. The cogging points need to be overcome and the energy stored to. I'm just about 20Kg. It is not running but still. Magnets 230 kg 7X1cm 12 PC.

greeting
Lota
@Lota,

Golly gee willikers! That looks like the original. Very impressive.
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Last edited by Allen Burgess; 10-01-2016 at 08:49 PM.
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  #73  
Old 10-04-2016, 12:43 PM
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Kundel Magnetics

Click on the "Reciprocating Motor" tab for a good animation.
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  #74  
Old 11-03-2016, 07:16 PM
mike_kilroy mike_kilroy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundiceuk View Post
Kundel Magnetics

Click on the "Reciprocating Motor" tab for a good animation.
Anything new on this?
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  #75  
Old 11-04-2016, 09:26 AM
lota lota is offline
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Hello
I'm in Sweden at the moment. Must be co-ordinated. I need also a special crankshaft. With longer stroke. I also have contact with Mr. Miller. He says,
It is someone there and tests the engine.

Greeting
Lota
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  #76  
Old 12-19-2016, 12:03 AM
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Rl2003 Rl2003 is offline
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Old Video of this.

I don't know if you all have seen this older video, but I saw this
thread and thought I would put it up.
From 2013 the first prototype.

Mark


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-StDu77GvXc
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  #77  
Old 12-19-2016, 07:26 AM
lota lota is offline
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Hello
I had contact with him. I think that the motor works. I will continue to work. But waiting for a part of Korea.
It does not work with small magnets. I have a new idea, as it is easier to build. When the time comes there is also a picture.

Merry Christmas
Lota
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  #78  
Old 12-29-2016, 02:10 PM
lota lota is offline
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Hello,
my new setup.
https://youtu.be/9jw86lrpvJ8

lota
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  #79  
Old 12-29-2016, 03:08 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Conclusions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lota View Post
Hello,
my new setup.
https://youtu.be/9jw86lrpvJ8

lota
Iota,

Any conclusions so far as to the effectivness of the system?
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  #80  
Old 12-30-2016, 05:29 AM
gotoluc gotoluc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lota View Post
Hello,
my new setup.
https://youtu.be/9jw86lrpvJ8

lota
Hi lota,

Nice workmanship

Some months back I had the opportunity to visit and test the Miller device.
They are excellent mechanics and machinists but they don't have the skills in electrical or electronics to be able to correctly measure the electrical power going in their device.
Luckily I brought a quality 4 channel scope and a current probe. It became clear that their assist (sync) motors used much more power when the device was under load.
They could not measure this with their clamp amp meter.
It was clearly under unity. Around 250 watts to deliver 20 foot pounds of torque.

I'm taking the time to share this as I don't like people wasting time and money.
I've been working on a similar project but using a much simpler and cost effective approach.
You can see for yourself how quickly and easily you can see real results here: TD replications

Here is the original topic: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2

Regards

Luc
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Last edited by gotoluc; 12-30-2016 at 05:31 AM.
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  #81  
Old 12-30-2016, 06:10 AM
bistander bistander is online now
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Conformation

Quote:
Originally Posted by gotoluc View Post
...:

Some months back I had the opportunity to visit and test the Miller device.
They are excellent mechanics and machinists but they don't have the skills in electrical or electronics to be able to correctly measure the electrical power going in their device.
Luckily I brought a quality 4 channel scope and a current probe. It became clear that their assist (sync) motors used much more power when the device was under load.
They could not measure this with their clamp amp meter.
It was clearly under unity. Around 250 watts to deliver 20 foot pounds of torque.

I'm taking the time to share this as I don't like people wasting time and money.
...
Luc
Thanks Luc, for running the tests and for posting your findings. It confirms my post #5 in this thread.

Regards,

bi

Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Hi guys,

What makes you think this is perpetual motion? I see an electric motor powering the contraption. The patent description also shows an electric motor input (#36 on diagram). And why don't they get someone who can read an instrument correctly? The guy is claiming "1.3 watts" when the meter is visibly set to the Ampere scale. That meter is incapable of measuring power.

bi
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  #82  
Old 12-30-2016, 06:36 AM
gotoluc gotoluc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Thanks Luc, for running the tests and for posting your findings. It confirms my post #5 in this thread.

Regards,

bi
Yes, your post and warning was bang on

Luc
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  #83  
Old 12-30-2016, 09:15 AM
lota lota is offline
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Hi Luc,.

were you directly with Sonny Miller?

I've seen the engines and also the clamp. Also she was not connected properly. I've seen your attempts in the Overunity. I'm going in this direction attempts.
I can only learn. Or?
My English is bad. I hope you understand me.

Lota
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  #84  
Old 12-30-2016, 11:27 AM
citfta citfta is offline
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And I want to clarify one other point about measuring power. Torque or foot pounds alone does not signify how much power is being produced. You have to multiply torque and rpm together to get a real measure of the power. I can easily use 100 watts of input power to generate 100 foot pounds of torque. but the rpm would be very low. It is just a matter of proper gear ratios. I saw a post the other day of someone claiming OU because he had generated some torque using low input power. But the speed was very low so no OU. Most of the claims of OU are made because people just do not and will take the time to learn the basics. But they are real quick to bash those that have taken the time to learn.

Respectfully,
Carroll
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  #85  
Old 12-30-2016, 02:41 PM
gotoluc gotoluc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lota View Post
Hi Luc,.

were you directly with Sonny Miller?

I've seen the engines and also the clamp. Also she was not connected properly. I've seen your attempts in the Overunity. I'm going in this direction attempts.
I can only learn. Or?
My English is bad. I hope you understand me.

Lota
Yes lota, I met Sonny Miller's at his work shop and tested the large device with him.

I can understand your English

Luc
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  #86  
Old 12-30-2016, 02:52 PM
gotoluc gotoluc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citfta View Post
And I want to clarify one other point about measuring power. Torque or foot pounds alone does not signify how much power is being produced. You have to multiply torque and rpm together to get a real measure of the power. I can easily use 100 watts of input power to generate 100 foot pounds of torque. but the rpm would be very low. It is just a matter of proper gear ratios. I saw a post the other day of someone claiming OU because he had generated some torque using low input power. But the speed was very low so no OU. Most of the claims of OU are made because people just do not and will take the time to learn the basics. But they are real quick to bash those that have taken the time to learn.

Respectfully,
Carroll
Yes Carroll, that is correct. Torque on its own is no indication of power. Just like Amps or Volts on their own is no indication of power.

The 20 foot pounds of torque the Sunny Miller device produced was at a low RPM of 10 revolutions per minute in case someone wants to do the math.
We tried higher RPM but input power (watts) kept rising with it.

Luc
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  #87  
Old 12-30-2016, 03:04 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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I was going to comment about that. Recalling the video from early in this thread, when he was measuring torque, I didn't even need to take off my shoes to count the RPM.

I am glad to see someone who knows what they're doing stick a meter on it. The fellow in the video was "reading" 1.3 Watts. Thanks again Luc.

bi
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  #88  
Old 03-04-2017, 01:15 AM
mike_kilroy mike_kilroy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotoluc View Post
Yes Carroll, that is correct. Torque on its own is no indication of power. Just like Amps or Volts on their own is no indication of power.

The 20 foot pounds of torque the Sunny Miller device produced was at a low RPM of 10 revolutions per minute in case someone wants to do the math.
We tried higher RPM but input power (watts) kept rising with it.

Luc
When was your visit and measurements Luc? Significant improvements were made in what I call errant magnetic fields. With that 250w input, I watched, observed, and measured, 20#-ft constant output at 125rpm. In case you want to do the math.

BTW, how did you rms the weird spiky 3ph current and voltage feeding the motor to come up with your motor watts? I would be thrilled to see your voltage and current waveforms for a revolution as well as your math to rms them. Thanks.
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Last edited by mike_kilroy; 03-04-2017 at 01:21 AM. Reason: added question
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  #89  
Old 03-04-2017, 01:49 AM
gotoluc gotoluc is offline
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Hi Mike,

the visit was around 3 months ago.

I brought my own Tektronics 4 channel digital scope with a voltage probe and a current probe.
I turned on the scope Math function and adjusted the time division to have more than enough samples in the display to get a good average of power.

The 20 lbs. torque is not continuous throughout the 360 degrees. At best 50% of each revolution.

Regards

Luc
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  #90  
Old 03-04-2017, 09:32 PM
mike_kilroy mike_kilroy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotoluc View Post
Hi Mike,
the visit was around 3 months ago.

I brought my own Tektronics 4 channel digital scope with a voltage probe and a current probe.
I turned on the scope Math function and adjusted the time division to have more than enough samples in the display to get a good average of power.

The 20 lbs. torque is not continuous throughout the 360 degrees. At best 50% of each revolution.

Regards

Luc
Thanks for the reply Luc.

And of course the 20#ft torque is not continuous throughout the whole 360 degree rotation: I do not believe anyone ever said it was. That is why ICE engines have fly wheels, just like Sonny's machine had a flywheel...

It is a shame you could not put your 4 channel scope on his machine when the timing was correct...

Shame so many folks are working against each other to be the "first" to come up with the greater than unity machine.... but that is a politically incorrect comment...

I have looked at the stuff you and floor have done - very good. Ya'all understand that the greater than unity - excuse me, torque multiplying stuff, is done by exploiting the fact that the magnetic attraction can be larger than the un-attraction of the same equal but opposite motion by devious means. Ie., by exploiting using attraction (or revulsion - it does not matter which you do) and making a SMALLER force on reverse stroke by either TURNING magnets 90 degrees from each other, AND/OR (no one has yet to try to use BOTH to get reduction in 1/2 again!!!!), as you saw Sonny do, SLIDE them sideways off each other. In either method, the magnet strength of the "return" stroke can be made LESS than the "forward" stroke and thus torque multiplication. Pretty basic stuff, but it requires the wizardry and out of box thinking such as Mr. Sonny Miller has shown so many of you.

You really should give Sonny his due: he has shown that this is possible, and then you guys are now expanded on what he taught you.

It is my opinion too that Sonny may not understand the electronic excitation side of this enough to have taken his design AT THIS TIME to the next final step, but he certainly led you guys in the direction you need to go to finish it. I have high hopes that Mr. Miller will hire a LOCAL electronic wizard (God knows I have tried to make it so!) to take him through his timing issues; to date that has happened. If he had LOCAL DAILY electrical servo guidance I believe he would in 2 months have the finished product that is a true torque multiplier. But of course that is just my opinion, having supplied the servo and controls to date.

Good luck to you sir, and floor, in furthering the use of this magnetic force no one knows the source of. Perhaps if the three of you wizards were to work together...
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