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  #31  
Old 12-11-2016, 06:38 AM
grumblenuts grumblenuts is offline
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I haven't heard a peep from mine since I mounted it, but I've yet to load it so can't say definitively. My guess is no one knows for sure yet, but I believe its emission of infrasound is neither significant nor comparable to that of traditional designs. There's no regular beating of the medium going on as with propeller ("wind turbine") or vertical axis devices. I can see it possibly whistling if the vanes are made small or tightly spaced enough, but how irritated do you tend to get after listening to your bathroom fan for a while? This design's got to be far less annoying than that even because it's being driven by the medium instead of driving it.
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  #32  
Old 12-12-2016, 12:30 AM
Dingus Dingus is offline
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Originally Posted by grumblenuts View Post
I haven't heard a peep from mine since I mounted it, but I've yet to load it so can't say definitively.
That's one of the problems with infrasound, it you won't hear a peep even if it is up & running.
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  #33  
Old 12-23-2016, 04:33 PM
grumblenuts grumblenuts is offline
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This looks like an ordinary impeller fan with a somewhat concave cone in the middle.

I'd like to try this out, maybe use it as a water turbine in the future.
I had to replace my gas dryer's motor last week because one of the sealed bearings was squealing like a stuck pig. The motor drives an impeller like what you've shown above, only they're a bit larger and plastic. Nice, but - Plastic. For a very hot application. Whereas - Metal. The material of choice for drying relatively cool, wet bathrooms. Go figure. ?

Anyways, been thinking about your electric scooter application. Seems like it would be cool if someone could mount a similar little impeller on the back of a pickup truck or something and see what happens. Drive a little generator with it. Take measurements. Report results here.

Merry Xmas
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  #34  
Old 12-23-2016, 05:45 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Originally Posted by grumblenuts View Post
...

Anyways, been thinking about your electric scooter application. Seems like it would be cool if someone could mount a similar little impeller on the back of a pickup truck or something and see what happens. Drive a little generator with it. Take measurements. Report results here.

Merry Xmas
Here's a guy thinking along those lines:

Microcube wind turbine
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  #35  
Old 12-24-2016, 04:26 PM
grumblenuts grumblenuts is offline
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Sure, clearly a few similarities. Thanks for the link and common interest

But sorry, smells like mostly crap to me and looks like nothing actually novel. Published well over a year ago? Here's an idea, drive the thing across the country... then start bragging about it... after a smidge of that wishful thinking actually bears some fruit.

Meanwhile, I can't seem to stop thinking about that dryer impeller now and the motor... Maytag/Whirlpool in case you're interested. 1/3 HP, 5.5A, 1725 RPM. Turns the drum with a belt pulley and the impeller directly. 1725 RPM is 28.75 revolutions per second. That seems pretty quick, but ever feel a dryer exhaust? Not all that powerful. So could the wind sort of do the reverse? And how does the motor stay cool while trapped inside that heated cabinet?
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  #36  
Old 12-24-2016, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by grumblenuts View Post
And how does the motor stay cool while trapped inside that heated cabinet?
I haven't seen exactly that set-up, but I imagine the fan pulls the fresh inlet air over or even through the motor. Interesting that the heat from the motor can be used by the dryer and therefore not wasted.
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  #37  
Old 12-31-2016, 01:36 PM
grumblenuts grumblenuts is offline
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The motor does have a rudimentary fan cast into its stator, but fresh air does not get pulled over or through it. Actually, there's no "fresh" outside air involved at all. Room air is sucked into the burner or electric heater, then it goes through the drum to dry the clothes, then the moist, semi-cooled product is passed through the lint filter and on into the blower housing. Then it gets blown outside. The motor remains isolated from all that, performing long, continuous duty cycles while trapped inside the warmed cabinet, year after year. Some illustrative pics:





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  #38  
Old 12-31-2016, 03:54 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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By "fresh inlet air" I was referring to room air or that which surrounds the outside of the dryer cabinet. Nice photos. I can see where air from the room is pulled into the chamber between the drum and floor. The heated air is kept separate in the heater chamber, drum, filter and outlet.

So to me it appears that the room air is pulled in and over (or at least nearby) the motor. Also I can see cast paddles on the motor rotor which act as a fan to mix this cooler nearby air over the stator coils. Insulation on motor coils may be rated as high as 200C.
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  #39  
Old 01-03-2017, 02:38 PM
grumblenuts grumblenuts is offline
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Nah, there's no "cooler nearby air" and no "in" or "over" going on. As one might expect, Google image searching reveals that the inlet air is supplied through rudimentary slots, seams, and/or holes, sensibly hidden from view, and fabricated seemingly anywhere in the back panel.

Considering this evident lack of engineering concern over keeping the motor cool, beyond the fins cast into the rotor (not "stator" as I mistakenly said earlier), is why I brought this up.

I suppose the motor does help heat the drum and/or vice versa, but neither helps the motor last which was my concern.

Not proving to be a very productive diversion yet, but thanks for the attention, compliment, and sharing of your perspective
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  #40  
Old 01-13-2017, 01:33 PM
grumblenuts grumblenuts is offline
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Another thought regarding putting a cowl around the thing. I'm thinking sort of the opposite. Vent the backside up the mast and out some, perhaps venturi shaped, contraption above the rotor, using the wind to develop an even stronger vacuum there. In effect, create even more suction behind the rotor, causing it to spin faster and/or with more power.
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  #41  
Old 01-14-2017, 06:23 PM
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Construction

Thin plywood back 4 x 4 ft half sheet .. light wood blades ceder ? Pivot pins or drywall screws long as you can get ? May have to make a concrete mold for front flange for fiber glass lay up. Same for internal cone.. To get the flange use a plywood cut out with a 3/8 to1/2 copper tube layerd on the cutout held with 5000 pound epoxy turn cut out on a vertical 1/2 pipe to mold concrete then sand smooth surface and wax for lay up. Vertical section same . this was used to make large 8 ft diameter fiber glass parabolas . make a steel rack wall and mount many into it and pull the accumulate power . really would be nice to mold the hole thing but maybe off the shelf will work.. Any ideas to make it easier would be appreciated. How about a very large 3D printing machine?? With imbedded fiberglass in the excretion.
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  #42  
Old 01-16-2017, 12:07 PM
grumblenuts grumblenuts is offline
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I think fiberglass is a great way to go if you have that skill. Especially to mass produce. Implies knowing exactly what you want in advance which seems a bit scary. Thin plywood and cedar will do fine for prototype/experimental purposes. Prefer polycarbonate only because I happen to have tons of scrap from dumpster diving and it's transparent.

8 ft diameter now seems about ideal to me. Far as making it easier, I really think my painted plywood flywheel is a keeper. It helps keep the thing turning steadily in varying winds with no apparent detrimental effect upon its responsiveness to wind direction. But it also serves as a nice, solid base to build the rest upon. Holding stuff in place with drywall screws, for instance.
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  #43  
Old 01-16-2017, 08:41 PM
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Grumblenuts

I wasn't completely true on the 8ft dish's it was 12 ft and they used small mirrors of plastic squares .man can you imagine the heat stand in front and try to fry a burger ??? You'll melt the pan!!. Go blind!! .I figured out a way to cook with out the issue .use a thermal diode at the hot spot raped with a steel tube and bring it Thu the dish .using it to pivot it with the sun. No light no heat out OU control. Just you and the hot end of the diode tube in a room .diode tubes are just a steel tube sealed at each end with a carrier fluid inside and vacuumed out.the heat locks just below the boiling point of the fluid. Like water it would be 99 deg Celsius. With sodium the hole tube glows like a neon red.will work up to 60 ft.you cold cook or run a Stirling motor heat the house bake all away from the disk out side .organic fluid breaks down with time.from the heat.: jim
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  #44  
Old 01-19-2017, 07:22 AM
grumblenuts grumblenuts is offline
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That sure sounds like fun and something to keep you busy for years to come. Well, to bring it back to this windmill design, I say 8 feet now seems ideal to me because 10, as I had been planning, let alone 12, is just too darn scary to contemplate mounting on my garage given the winds we get every so often here.

As discussed previously, or posited at least, the effective diameter is greater and only grows with higher wind. Mike Waters says smaller ones are equivalent to significantly larger traditional designs as well. Making an 8 ft mold for fiberglass has got to be a lot easier than one for 10 or 12.
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  #45  
Old 01-23-2017, 09:47 AM
grumblenuts grumblenuts is offline
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Just noting that I've now detected clear evidence of a flaw in my design/construction. Somewhat ironic that after saying only a week ago, "the thing turning steadily in varying winds with no apparent detrimental effect upon its responsiveness to wind direction", I must report already that this is no longer the case.

I began suspecting a problem a couple days ago when it didn't seem to be following the wind as easily as usual. This morning though there's no longer any doubt. It's still spinning fine and quietly, but making clear creaking noises and being noticeably reluctant about changing direction. Sticking.

This after more than a week of rainy, unseasonably warm, soupy weather. I suspect simply inadequate handling of downward or gravitational thrust, but my regular bearings may need more protection as well. If the thing requires maintenance more than once a year I consider it a failure.
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  #46  
Old 01-24-2017, 03:09 PM
grumblenuts grumblenuts is offline
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It's been raining and blowy since and working fine.

Concerning gyroscopic effects, I designed my version with the mass of the rotor as nearly centered over the mast as possible to minimize them as it changes direction with the wind. This appears to work. If the spinning mass were say offset a few feet from the vertical rotation axis I think the rotor's reluctance to change direction would be greatly enhanced.
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  #47  
Old 01-27-2017, 02:45 PM
grumblenuts grumblenuts is offline
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So, lo and behold, this morning it's 38 degrees F and very windy. I go out and doggone it if the thing didn't stop spinning! Tracking the the wind religiously. But no wheel turning. I pushed it with a stick. It revolved lethargically 3/4 turn and stopped.

I can only presume moisture the culprit having made both the vertical and horizontal axes virtually identical. High humidity lately with low temperatures increasing condensation combining to produce some sort of colossal schmutz in the sealed bearings, fouling up the most precious and vital sanctum of my works.

Woe is me. Back to the drawing board... lol
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  #48  
Old 01-27-2017, 07:02 PM
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Grumblenuts

Try cleaning out the grease and loading it with graphite then seal it with silicone glue .your troubles are a teaching aid. Or ceramic bearings or magnetic bearings or a old German idea used in the Volkswagen a graphite bearing used on the throw out bearing on the clutch never wore out!:
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  #49  
Old 01-27-2017, 07:07 PM
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Troubling

Does any one know know what's happening with the last motor that Peter and Arron were working on ??? Now that's Peter has moved on ???
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  #50  
Old 01-30-2017, 11:08 PM
grumblenuts grumblenuts is offline
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Originally Posted by jim glinski View Post
Try cleaning out the grease and loading it with graphite then seal it with silicone glue .your troubles are a teaching aid. Or ceramic bearings or magnetic bearings or a old German idea used in the Volkswagen a graphite bearing used on the throw out bearing on the clutch never wore out!:
Thanks Jim! I'm gonna try that graphite/silicone fix - because I happen to have both on hand, lol. I'm also gonna see if I can easily cover the whole area better to keep it all somewhat dryer. May even try fitting a little generator on it while it's down. Changing the bearings would be a real pain. They're quite big and custom size, I think, and I have lots of spares so no cleaning necessary.

Dunno what motor you're talking about, but if it's the solenoid driven scotch yoke thing I'm interested in updates too.
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  #51  
Old 09-11-2017, 12:55 AM
grumblenuts grumblenuts is offline
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Still here, just forever distracted by more practical seeming necessities. Fixed it easily once I got it down, but still can't decide what sort of generator to mount with my very limited funds. I'm sure a small PM generator would be helpful to monitor the output and generate comparative data. But, that idea bores me to death and I'm sure Mike's results would remain a more accurate and reliable guide for others. No, I'm looking to do something far more crazy and exciting with it...
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  #52  
Old 09-12-2017, 04:56 PM
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output

Quote:
Originally Posted by grumblenuts View Post
Still here, just forever distracted by more practical seeming necessities. Fixed it easily once I got it down, but still can't decide what sort of generator to mount with my very limited funds. I'm sure a small PM generator would be helpful to monitor the output and generate comparative data. But, that idea bores me to death and I'm sure Mike's results would remain a more accurate and reliable guide for others. No, I'm looking to do something far more crazy and exciting with it...
Connect the output to a Kromrey Generator (you'd have to build it).
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  #53  
Old 09-13-2017, 03:17 AM
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Hybrid Technologies

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Connect the output to a Kromrey Generator (you'd have to build it).
Thanks Aaron
I have long thought that the Free Energy device that will win the day - at least in the near term - will be a hybrid - a combination of technologies. For example having the Waters Turbine drive a few Zero Force GENERATOR rotors that have TRUE bifilar windings around them? Lenz Law CEMF is reduced to zero and so the generator doesn't load the turbine - the turbine doesn't "know" the generator is there.

Homo/Unipolar technology might also be employed. (Please see my thread: Murakami High Voltage N-Machine) with contact friction reduced by mercury brushes on the axles instead of the circumference of the Neos - borrowing from Tesla's patent.

While the wind is up enough, energy could be stored in capacitors, then dumped off into batteries periodically. Combine all that with a "Split the Positive" / 3 + 1 battery switch that is driving a motor that employs asymmetric windings ala UFO Politics/Matt Jones/Turion, which in turn spins an asymmetrically wound PMA that powers the whole house?

Jim
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  #54  
Old 09-14-2017, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Satyam108 View Post
Thanks Aaron
I have long thought that the Free Energy device that will win the day - at least in the near term - will be a hybrid - a combination of technologies. For example having the Waters Turbine drive a few Zero Force GENERATOR rotors that have TRUE bifilar windings around them? Lenz Law CEMF is reduced to zero and so the generator doesn't load the turbine - the turbine doesn't "know" the generator is there.

Homo/Unipolar technology might also be employed. (Please see my thread: Murakami High Voltage N-Machine) with contact friction reduced by mercury brushes on the axles instead of the circumference of the Neos - borrowing from Tesla's patent.

While the wind is up enough, energy could be stored in capacitors, then dumped off into batteries periodically. Combine all that with a "Split the Positive" / 3 + 1 battery switch that is driving a motor that employs asymmetric windings ala UFO Politics/Matt Jones/Turion, which in turn spins an asymmetrically wound PMA that powers the whole house?

Jim
The ZFM is a motor and not generator, but I believe a combo is fruitful.

For example Split the Positive battery system running a ZFM that is turning a Kromrey Generator.
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  #55  
Old 09-14-2017, 10:03 PM
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Motors and Generators

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The ZFM is a motor and not generator, but I believe a combo is fruitful.

For example Split the Positive battery system running a ZFM that is turning a Kromrey Generator.
Thanks again Aaron,
Pure speculation on my part, but I'll bet a dollar to a donut (as my Dad used to say) that if you put a motor on the shaft of either the ZFM that Peter Lindemann created or the Stanchak replication, that you would get considerable power from it. The motor to drive it could even be a ZFM.

The one coil ZFM that John Bedini shows here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-GZerEwObo
looks to have enough power to turn a second ZFM as generator, and for the 3+1 Split the Positive, he shows it has a nice radiant (Aether) spike that can be used to help charge the battery in that position.

As with the cool unipolar ("homo" polar motor - something about trolling motors on icebergs used by gay polar bears to cruise the arctic in summer - nyuck nyuck) that you showed in July Aaron, the ZFM motor turning the ZFG wouldn't "know" it was turning a generator - wouldn't be loaded at all by it (just bearing friction,) and to get back on topic here - neither would the Waters Turbine.
Peace
Jim
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