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  #1  
Old 06-03-2016, 09:50 AM
AetherScientist AetherScientist is offline
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Capacitor charging using opened coil in a core

Hi folks and hi med.3012 and others.

I have not posted here for a while because I was experimenting a little bit. I don't like to post only theories, so this time I come with a simple experiment that I have tested.

Maybe this is useful for someone.


The test is based in the possibility to charge a capacitor using a L2 with one end of the L2 not connected to anything.

The idea is to use a car's ignition coil and use the output and use a L2 end to a Avramenko's plug and charge a capacitor. I will update this post with pictures and more detailed explanation.
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  #2  
Old 06-03-2016, 12:39 PM
AetherScientist AetherScientist is offline
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Here more detailed explanations:

A conventional transformer works in this way as we know:



The variation I see is the next one:
Using a L2 and using only one end of the L2 it's possible to charge the capacitor if AV plug is used. Even if AV plug is not used, there are some sparks in the ends of the L2 coil.

The L2 is the coil you can see in the picture, not the internal ones of the car's ignition coil. Car's ignition coil is fed with pulsed direct current.

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Old 06-03-2016, 01:08 PM
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The next step is to replace the core with multi strand thick wire and check if the effect still happens or not.
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Last edited by AetherScientist; 06-03-2016 at 01:45 PM.
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Old 06-03-2016, 01:50 PM
AetherScientist AetherScientist is offline
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With the last post, I mean that it would be ok to check this configuration. The only thing that has been changed is the replacement of the core with a multi strand wire.


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Old 06-03-2016, 02:21 PM
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Hello AetherScientist , hi eveyone

nice to see you again

nice setup, but i wonder about the amount of collected power? is it good ?
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Old 06-03-2016, 03:12 PM
AetherScientist AetherScientist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by med.3012 View Post
Hello AetherScientist , hi eveyone

nice to see you again

nice setup, but i wonder about the amount of collected power? is it good ?
Hello med.3012, nice to see you again too.

When I short the capacitor I get big sparks and they seem stronger than using the classic connection (connecting the AV plug directly to the output of the ignition coil, instead of winding a coil around the output).

I have also tried to use the Smith's experiment of using the spark of the car's ignition coil in a plate // insulator // plate // insulator // plate, and you can get sparks in any plate.
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Old 06-03-2016, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AetherScientist View Post
Hello med.3012, nice to see you again too.

When I short the capacitor I get big sparks and they seem stronger than using the classic connection (connecting the AV plug directly to the output of the ignition coil, instead of winding a coil around the output).

I have also tried to use the Smith's experiment of using the spark of the car's ignition coil in a plate // insulator // plate // insulator // plate, and you can get sparks in any plate.

i don't mean to discard your work or lower its value but why not to choose a single design and improve it together ? i just published a new video in youtube discuss serial ETBC (s)

practically this design work a pretty good but we still need a good ferrite core ( bigger ) not like the small TV YOKE,

just visit my thread and ignore the security warning appear when you click on youtube link, or copy past these lines in your browser :



copy don't click ! https://youtu.be/a0FNZZywgng
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Old 06-04-2016, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by med.3012 View Post
i don't mean to discard your work or lower its value but why not to choose a single design and improve it together ? i just published a new video in youtube discuss serial ETBC (s)

practically this design work a pretty good but we still need a good ferrite core ( bigger ) not like the small TV YOKE,

just visit my thread and ignore the security warning appear when you click on youtube link, or copy past these lines in your browser :
Do you mean to work in a specific design and work together you and me?
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Old 06-04-2016, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AetherScientist View Post
Do you mean to work in a specific design and work together you and me?

Not only you and me, there's other friends outside the forum work on the same design , the ETBC is highly adaptable device, recently i found a way to optimize the output, the only difficulty is how to build a large ferrite core but this problem solved pretty easily if we grind the ferrite and mix it with epoxy resin and after that put the mixture in the preferred mold.


the video posted in my previous post show the details, when working on the same design it's easy to solve the problems , what do you think ?
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Old 06-04-2016, 03:02 PM
Bob Smith Bob Smith is offline
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Hi Aether Scientist
I like your open system concept of cap charging. I think this is a track very much worth exploring. The problem for me is I get a discharge from caps charged in parallel like this only if I short them out - great sparks, but a useful discharge for me is the goal.

I believe the key to useful discharge that can perform work is moving from a parallel kind of charging as you demonstrate to a series discharge.
In other words, charge in parallel, discharge in series. I also believe the open configuration of your system is of key importance.
Bob
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Old 06-05-2016, 08:29 AM
AetherScientist AetherScientist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by med.3012 View Post
Not only you and me, there's other friends outside the forum work on the same design , the ETBC is highly adaptable device, recently i found a way to optimize the output, the only difficulty is how to build a large ferrite core but this problem solved pretty easily if we grind the ferrite and mix it with epoxy resin and after that put the mixture in the preferred mold.


the video posted in my previous post show the details, when working on the same design it's easy to solve the problems , what do you think ?
Hello, I have to see the whole video. I have only seen small parts of it.

I have different concepts to test, but I have learnt that the important thing is to test and post results. I want to stop posting only ideas.

I have tested the concepts that I have materials. There are other ones that I don't have the materials, so I cannot test them at the moment.
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Old 06-05-2016, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Smith View Post
Hi Aether Scientist
I like your open system concept of cap charging. I think this is a track very much worth exploring. The problem for me is I get a discharge from caps charged in parallel like this only if I short them out - great sparks, but a useful discharge for me is the goal.

I believe the key to useful discharge that can perform work is moving from a parallel kind of charging as you demonstrate to a series discharge.
In other words, charge in parallel, discharge in series. I also believe the open configuration of your system is of key importance.
Bob
I posted this result because it could be of great importance for some users.
As long as we know, when you use both ends of the output of a transformer there is reflection to the source.

When you use only one end of the output coil you're not creating a back magnetomotive force, so the input in the primary would be reactive power.

It seems that with the opened secondary, there is not energy drawing in the primary. So... could you get as many copies from the primary as you want? I don't know.
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Old 06-05-2016, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Smith View Post
Hi Aether Scientist
I like your open system concept of cap charging. I think this is a track very much worth exploring. The problem for me is I get a discharge from caps charged in parallel like this only if I short them out - great sparks, but a useful discharge for me is the goal.

I believe the key to useful discharge that can perform work is moving from a parallel kind of charging as you demonstrate to a series discharge.
In other words, charge in parallel, discharge in series. I also believe the open configuration of your system is of key importance.
Bob
As you know, in the setup I show here I use the AV plug to charge a capacitor in parallel.

As you might know, there is one very known circuit that is similar to an AV plug and can discharge the caps in series.

Basically, the AV plug is very similar to a Cockcroft walton multiplier (half wave).
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Old 06-05-2016, 09:01 AM
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I have also tried the experiment that Don Smith has shown several times.

To use the spark of the ignition coil in one metallic plate (use dielectric in between) and use another metallic plate. As you know, you can get the sparks in the output metallic plate.

I have also tried with multiple metallic plates and you can get sparks in any plate. I tried with 4 plates.
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Old 06-05-2016, 01:47 PM
Bob Smith Bob Smith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AetherScientist View Post
As you know, in the setup I show here I use the AV plug to charge a capacitor in parallel.

As you might know, there is one very known circuit that is similar to an AV plug and can discharge the caps in series.

Basically, the AV plug is very similar to a Cockcroft walton multiplier (half wave).
Thank you Aether Scientist,
Yes, this has been my conclusion as well. With this kind of array, we should be able to step up any kind of capacitor output, and then step it down for useable charge to do work. If we follow Don Smith's logic, then each step-up of charge through the capacitors along the CW array allows for an additional entry of charge from the ambient medium.
Regards,
Bob
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Last edited by Bob Smith; 06-05-2016 at 01:48 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 06-05-2016, 02:12 PM
AetherScientist AetherScientist is offline
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Originally Posted by Bob Smith View Post
Thank you Aether Scientist,
Yes, this has been my conclusion as well. With this kind of array, we should be able to step up any kind of capacitor output, and then step it down for useable charge to do work. If we follow Don Smith's logic, then each step-up of charge through the capacitors along the CW array allows for an additional entry of charge from the ambient medium.
Regards,
Bob
Another idea is to try the circuit to get energy from the ambient and replace the ambient input (an antenna connected to the air), with the input from the car's ignition coil output.

In this schematic it's possible to replace the antenna with the output of a car's ignition coil. Of course, you will need to use the correct capacitors and the correct diodes, not the models you can read in the schematic.
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Old 06-05-2016, 02:26 PM
AetherScientist AetherScientist is offline
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There is also another circuit where you can light an incandescent light bulb using a single wire, a modified full wave bridge rectifier and a capacitor.
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Old 06-05-2016, 03:40 PM
Bob Smith Bob Smith is offline
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Originally Posted by AetherScientist View Post
Another idea is to try the circuit to get energy from the ambient and replace the ambient input (an antenna connected to the air), with the input from the car's ignition coil output.

In this schematic it's possible to replace the antenna with the output of a car's ignition coil. Of course, you will need to use the correct capacitors and the correct diodes, not the models you can read in the schematic.
I have built this simple circuit, and it indeed does work. Yes, I suppose the ignition coil setup would provide enough HV pressure on one side of a cap to draw in a useable amount of ambient energy on its opposing side for step down to do work, though I have not tried this.

Am I correct in understanding that the basic DS principles could be summed up as follows?

HV >> Capacitor >> Inductor >> Stepdown Coil >> Output

Bob
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Old 06-05-2016, 04:05 PM
AetherScientist AetherScientist is offline
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Originally Posted by AetherScientist View Post
With the last post, I mean that it would be ok to check this configuration. The only thing that has been changed is the replacement of the core with a multi strand wire.


Tried the setup of the picture and it works too.
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Old 06-05-2016, 04:13 PM
AetherScientist AetherScientist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Smith View Post
I have built this simple circuit, and it indeed does work. Yes, I suppose the ignition coil setup would provide enough HV pressure on one side of a cap to draw in a useable amount of ambient energy on its opposing side for step down to do work, though I have not tried this.

Am I correct in understanding that the basic DS principles could be summed up as follows?

HV >> Capacitor >> Inductor >> Stepdown Coil >> Output

Bob
I tried that and it's possible to charge the AV plug capacitor in the same way as connecting physically to the output of the car's ignition coil. I used a receiving plate to charge the AV plug cap. It works.

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Old 06-05-2016, 04:17 PM
AetherScientist AetherScientist is offline
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Originally Posted by Bob Smith View Post
I have built this simple circuit, and it indeed does work. Yes, I suppose the ignition coil setup would provide enough HV pressure on one side of a cap to draw in a useable amount of ambient energy on its opposing side for step down to do work, though I have not tried this.

Am I correct in understanding that the basic DS principles could be summed up as follows?

HV >> Capacitor >> Inductor >> Stepdown Coil >> Output


Bob
Can you draw a simple picture? I don't fully understand the idea.
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Old 06-05-2016, 06:45 PM
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med.3012 med.3012 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AetherScientist View Post
Hello, I have to see the whole video. I have only seen small parts of it.

I have different concepts to test, but I have learnt that the important thing is to test and post results. I want to stop posting only ideas.

I have tested the concepts that I have materials. There are other ones that I don't have the materials, so I cannot test them at the moment.
i understand this, i am also posting regarding the practical results i had so maybe someone will expand the idea.
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Old 06-07-2016, 03:03 AM
Bob Smith Bob Smith is offline
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Can you draw a simple picture? I don't fully understand the idea.
Sorry -- I just saw your post and it's late. I just started a new job with longer hours. Will try to draw something in the next few days.
B
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