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  #811  
Old 11-12-2018, 11:42 AM
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Magnetic drag is not cogging. Show me a reputable source which says it is.

Could someone please explain the difference ?
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  #812  
Old 11-12-2018, 01:59 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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Oh what a bind!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddy_current_brake
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  #813  
Old 11-12-2018, 02:02 PM
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Coil free.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cogging_torque
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  #814  
Old 11-12-2018, 02:10 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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There ya go.

http://www.koshindenki.com/img/file/...vr_R3a_Std.pdf
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  #815  
Old 11-12-2018, 02:15 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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Problems in the real world.

As Coreless Dc Motors usually can reach very high rpms and has a compact structure, these motors can heat quickly. Especially when running at full load for a short time. So it is usually advised to use a cooling system with these motors. Overheating can be an important problem specially for Coreless Micro Dc Motors. So a disadvantage of a coreless motor is, it cannot handle overloads when compared to a cored motor. The bonding adhesive that holds the windings can lose its bonding character and the motor will be broken.

What use is a broken motor?
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  #816  
Old 11-12-2018, 03:00 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Cogging vs drag

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawt2 View Post
Magnetic drag is not cogging. Show me a reputable source which says it is.

Could someone please explain the difference ?
Hi Sawt2,

Cogging is strictly due to magnets and iron (core). Magnetic drag can be caused by both magnets/iron and magnets/iron/electromagnets.

Cogging is due to the tendency of the rotor magnet to align with the core projection (as the iron in the center of the coil). That tendency acts in the direction of rotation on one side of TDC and against rotation direction on the opposite side of TDC. So the equal magnitude but opposite tendencies (or torque) cancel when looking at average torque (or current) input or output. However cogging will be present and represent torque ripple which is most noticeable at low RPM.

Magnetic drag, on the other hand, always opposes rotation and becomes greater as RPM increases. It is due to core loss, ie. Eddy currents and hysteresis. For motors and generators, magnetic drag is a loss mechanism. Magnetic drag is purposely used in applications like commercial magnetic brakes and clutches. Cogging is not.

There is much literature on the subjects. I encourage you, or anyone to look at it.

https://www.designworldonline.com/th...agnetic-brake/

Regards,

bi
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Last edited by bistander; 11-12-2018 at 03:06 PM.
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  #817  
Old 11-12-2018, 03:51 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Claims

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
You're wrong. Show me the 1800 watt output with 300 watt input generator.
No, No motor mouth, show me anything. You keep repeating, table
turning riddles. Show something and stop boasting about nothing.

Everybody has motor experience. Show us.

Turion Man is da man and he don't just flap his jaw, he shows his stuff
around. He is one of the few men who actual had an idea and has shown
his working unit. Today it works, not someday.

Where is yours? Did you go over the instructional data? No? Still repeating?
Repeating old slogans? Hummm..?
He made the claim. He has never shown a working unit of the 1800 watt output/300 watt input machine.

I made no claim. What am I supposed to show? Something that doesn't work?

You claimed that the magnet repelled the steel. Show us that. That's what started this episode.
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  #818  
Old 11-12-2018, 03:59 PM
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Magnets

When the iron becomes an electromagnet of the same polarity the magnet is repelled. Simple. I have said this three times now.
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  #819  
Old 11-12-2018, 04:08 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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So what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
When the iron becomes an electromagnet of the same polarity the magnet is repelled. Simple. I have said this three times now.
Then it has nothing to do with cogging. How many times have I said that? And that is what he claimed.... Repulsion due to cogging. Simple.
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  #820  
Old 11-12-2018, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post
Cogging it when 1 magnetic pole passes another magnetic pole. If
the poles slow down as they are passing each other lock will occur
and all movement stops. Once the magnetic lock is broken on start up
cogging does return. At 1 rpm cogging is more noticeable to the naked
eye. At 1000 rpm's your eye can not see anything but a person can
measure this cogging drag in current form.

The poles in our present day electric motors have magnetic poles passing
one another. As 1 pole draws near to a pole they resist each other and as
the poles reach TDC then moving beyond the pole try to pull themselves
back together thus resisting it's departure.

All forms of modern motors and generators operate in this way. Everything
is burnt complete up and cast out of the systems circuit.

To eliminate cogging, counteractive design strategy should be implemented.

See Thane Heins instructional video's.


This is what he actually said, and you immediately twisted his words bringing up steel poles on your OWN. Go look at the posts.
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  #821  
Old 11-12-2018, 05:49 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Twist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
This is what he actually said, and you immediately twisted his words bringing up steel poles on your OWN. Go look at the posts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post
Cogging ...
As 1 pole draws near to a pole they resist each other ...
Two poles. One on the rotor (a magnet) and one in the stator (steel core). "Draws near to" = getting closer. "Resist each other" = repel or repulsion. What did I twist?
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Last edited by bistander; 11-12-2018 at 05:53 PM.
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  #822  
Old 11-12-2018, 06:18 PM
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Twist!

In his very FIRST line he says “two magnetic poles”. He is talking about electromagnetic poles one created by an electrical supply and the other induced by the approaching magnet in a coil.
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  #823  
Old 11-12-2018, 07:14 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Steel is magnetic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
In his very FIRST line he says “two magnetic poles”. He is talking about electromagnetic poles one created by an electrical supply and the other induced by the approaching magnet in a coil.
Very first Google hit:

Quote:
Is steel magnetic?
A: In general, steels are magnetic.
Ref. https://www.reference.com/science/st...eb085b5b85cf38
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  #824  
Old 11-12-2018, 07:46 PM
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Lol

Aluminum foil

That has as much to do with what we are talking about as what you linked to. Magnetic poles is what he said. Obviously they contain metal as well as a coil or you could not possibly build a motor or generator out of them. He said magnetic poles which is different than steel poles. Am I correct or incorrect?
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Last edited by Turion; 11-12-2018 at 08:03 PM.
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  #825  
Old 11-12-2018, 07:58 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Aluminum foil

That has as much to do with what we are talking about as what you linked to. Magnetic pokes is what he said. Obviously they contain metal as well as a coil or you could not possibly build a motor or generator out of them. He said magnetic poles which is different than steel poles. Am I correct or incorrect?
You are incorrect. A magnetic pole in a motor or generator does not have to have a coil around it. Look up consequent pole. And besides his whole post was about cogging which is independent of coils.

You're guessing about what you think he meant. I am talking about what he wrote and posted and the common, scientific and technical definitions of the words and terms he used.
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  #826  
Old 11-13-2018, 06:18 AM
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Generator

bi,
As I have explained several times, I have no intention of proving ANYTHING to you. When I get a chance though, I will definitely shoot a YouTube video of the inputs and outputs of the generator and send the link to a few people on the forum. It will be a couple months though. I am still busy with the dual remodel, so I have no time to put the machine back together. Not only am I leaving town in a couple days for a week, but we were gone for a week to a funeral for a family member, so I am way behind on what I need to get done to sell the house, and that is the priority.
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  #827  
Old 11-13-2018, 06:47 AM
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My Dad's funeral was Friday he was 83 and Mom's was last month
she was 77 yrs
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  #828  
Old 11-13-2018, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post
My Dad's funeral was Friday he was 83 and Mom's was last month
she was 77 yrs
Sorry for your loss
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  #829  
Old 11-14-2018, 02:10 AM
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It is time for the booster circuit even with batteries still charged the
inverter alarm is going off.




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  #830  
Old 11-15-2018, 01:58 AM
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Shop class today

Jordan cut his Madmack parts out today to explore cogging.
We have the bearings, shaft, collars and now platform pieces.
We have the square magnets and the material to build adjuster.

After cancellation is performed we will sub out 1 pole with and iron
core with coil. If everything goes right we might be able to run this big
wheel with a tiny rubber band type belt using a miniature motor to
see how much the coil will put out.


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  #831  
Old 11-15-2018, 02:04 AM
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Quote:
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Sorry for your loss

Thank you, both had very sad endings.
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  #832  
Old 11-15-2018, 03:01 AM
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Thoughts

Sorry to hear about your folks. My dad passed a couple years ago and I moved my mom to CA to a house down the street from me.
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  #833  
Old 11-15-2018, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
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Sorry to hear about your folks. My dad passed a couple years ago and I moved my mom to CA to a house down the street from me.
Thank you Turion Man.
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  #834  
Old 11-30-2018, 05:02 AM
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  #835  
Old 12-02-2018, 04:56 AM
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PART 2


3 battery discharge motor to a MadMack style generator rotor for my
son. Slow speeds, very safe and energy conservative. Don't quote me
but I think I saw the drive motor amps at about 50ma-75ma on 12vdc
coming from the 3 battery arrangement.

Mounting and placing the motor plus stainless shaft in the mail. Drilling
the hub and then placement of square magnets.




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  #836  
Old 12-02-2018, 05:25 PM
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Sorry for your loss didn't see this until today.

wantomake
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  #837  
Old 12-03-2018, 02:29 AM
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Sorry for your loss didn't see this until today.

wantomake
Thank you James, God bless you and your efforts here and abroad.
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  #838  
Old Yesterday, 11:34 AM
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Work Progress

Put in many hours of work this week building. My ss shaft is here
and the one bearing for the top mount will be in soon. The mail
is stopped up bad, I ordered a bearing 3 weeks ago. The motor
to drive the wheel is mounted to my satisfaction and the upper
cross member is going well.

I can't believe all the hours I put in and it looks the same almost.
This really takes alot of time and I enjoy it.

one thing I need to do is take out a small segment to explain the
way I build. So many guys are not as well equipped plus have little
experience rigging.

Cutting tools for metal plate and plastic are important, then a welder
helps a bunch so I'll be showing my designs soon for the guys who
are wondering how to start something to make tests with.

Since magnets are very powerful at close range to metal cores it becomes
imperative that a rigid structure be formed, not as easy as it may seem.


.................................................. .....
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  #839  
Old Today, 10:20 AM
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Structural Update

Working outside in 20 degrees but nice, no wind. Enjoy.









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