Energetic Forum  
Facebook Twitter Google+ Pinterest LinkedIn Delicious Digg Reddit WordPress StumbleUpon Tumblr Translate Addthis Aaron Murakami YouTube 2020 ENERGY CONFERENCE - PRE-REGISTER NOW!!!!

2020 Energy Science & Technology Conference
PRE-REGISTER NOW!!!
http://energyscienceconference.com


Go Back   Energetic Forum > >
   

Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

* NEW * BEDINI RPX BOOK & DVD SET: BEDINI RPX

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #781  
Old 11-11-2018, 05:56 AM
Turion's Avatar
Turion Turion is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,867
Magnets and iron cores

bi,
Take ANY motor and turn a rotor with it that holds magnets. Measure the amp draw of that motor.

Now introduce a coil with an iron core and NO LOAD to the rotating magnets. I don't care how fast you rotate that motor within its designated voltage limit, you will see a DIFFERENCE in amp draw of the motor when the coil is in place and/or a difference in the rpm. Put TWELVE coils in place and see what you get. At a lower speed there is cogging. At a higher speed the cogging GOES AWAY, but as long as the coil is there, MAGNETIC DRAG exists. The magnets on the rotor are ALWAYS going to be attracted to the iron in the core and are ALWAYS going to affect the amp draw of the motor or the rpm or both. Your magical "high speed rotation" will NOT eliminate this. I don't care HOW many dictionary definitions you link to. Magnets are attracted to iron. PERIOD. Now I'm not saying that at 30,000 rpm the affect may be so small as to hardly be noticeable, but we are not operating at 30,000 rpm now are we?

That is one action that takes place. There is second

When the coil is connected to a LOAD, the approaching magnet creates an electromagnet from the coil which is the same polarity as the approaching magnet, slowing down its approach and increasing the amp draw of the motor to try and maintain the same speed, JUST AS IF it were under load, because it IS. At top dead center, the polarity of the coil switches and it attracts the magnet that is trying to move away, so the motor is STILL UNDER LOAD, which CONTINUES to affect the amp draw and/or rpm

This is a second and COMPLETELY separate reaction from the FIRST.

Both exist simultaneously. How do I know this to be a FACT. First, because I have built coils that utilize the delayed lenz reaction, meaning they do not develop the field that repels the approaching rotor magnet until it has ALREADY reached top dead center, at which point the repelling field is created, pushing the rotor magnet away in the direction it is traveling, thus assisting or acting as a MOTIVE force. Lenz ASSISTED. Although the motor speeds up with this kind of coil, the rpm does NOT exceed the rpm of the motor with NO COIL IN PLACE. Although with PROPER timing, it will come DANG CLOSE.

The above action obviously changes the amp draw of the motor, as well as affecting the rpm.

When an opposition magnet is ALSO added, neutralizing the attraction of the rotor magnet to the iron core, ADDITIONAL rpms are demonstrated, as well as reduction in amp draw of the motor. NOW you CAN exceed the original rpm of the motor with no coil in place for the same or lower amp draw, especially when you have MULTIPLE COILS. WHY????? Because the Lenz ASSIST is a "motive force" that speeds up the rotor. But it can only speed it up SO MUCH, so you need BOTH the Lenz assist AND the magnetic neutralization to exceed the speed of rotation achieved with the motor when no coils are in place.

So now you have a motor that is turning faster than it is supposed to for the input you are giving it, turning a generator that is putting out power without dragging down the motor, and you can recover MUCH of the power used to run the motor in the first place if you are using the proper circuit, which we have spent a LOT of time showing over the last ten years.

You can run these experiment with and without Lenz assisted coils and with and without opposition magnets. It is NOT rocket science to use a simple amp meter to take measurements. I have been doing these experiments for ten years. So far all I have seen from YOU is links to dictionary definitions of "cogging" that are totally meaningless. Oh, and your insistence that I show my generator, which I will do one of these days....

After I get my new shop set up, which will come after my old shop gets moved over from the old house, which will come after I build a fence around the dog yard at the new house, landscape the back yard at the old house, remodel two bathrooms at the old house, tear out all the carpet and 70's paneling at the old house, patch and paint all the walls, and move my old Landcruiser to the new place.....which can't be done until I drywall the inside of the shed at the new house, build shelves, and move all the parts of the land cruiser to the new house.
Lest you think I have NOT been working on stuff, here's a little video of what I have gotten done so far. By the way, stuff DIDN'T get done around my old house because I was too busy working on THIS crap, and my wife could not come up with a solid plan on exactly what we wanted to do. Now that we are SELLING the old house, decisions have come much easier. I promised my wife NO MORE "free energy" stuff until all these things are DONE. TWO house payments while one house sits waiting for me to do all the remodeling is a priority over showing YOU anything. And the generators (all three of them) are in some stage of disassembly right now as I was working on them and replacing coil cores, so NONE of them have coils in them right now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGi8iCUHlo4

and the generator video, where you can see ALL THREE machines in some stage of NOT COMPLETE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWa81kmhVyc&t=22s
__________________
"I aim to misbehave" Malcolm Reynolds
"Try Not! Do or do not. There is no 'Try' ". Yoda

Last edited by Turion; 11-11-2018 at 06:06 AM.
Reply With Quote

Download SOLAR SECRETS by Peter Lindemann
Free - Get it now: Solar Secrets

  #782  
Old 11-11-2018, 06:02 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,767
Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
.

Try the experiment with a magnet and piece of steel. Tell me they repel. That's a good homework assignment for you.

See how school boyish your approach is? Do my homework, totally
programmed thinking. My motor experience and my school book
thinking.

Cogging is when two magnetic fields interact and metal sets up a field
in opposition to the coils field.

But hey someone that can't tell the difference between AC and DC
is @Bi so you can't understand much of the intricate workings of
mother nature.

You and your kind are classical thinkers, one's who are led around
by school books, told their little degree is advanced science, when the
curriculum is identical to Jr High school govt dumbbed down nonsense.

You will never be an inventor so go play with your motors believing you
have it all. And did you watch the video's, no. Do you understand them?
No. Do you care about the extra data offered in video form? No.

You just talk silly because you are silly. Show me anything.

I watched you clutter up UFO's thread for years and then you degraded
Turion on his thread consistently ignoring the hard data only to repeat
the same slogans of the past 100 years.

You are boring. People who are that weak should sit and listen. But
then your goal is something else, isn't it? But you can't be honest.



..............................
__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 11-11-2018 at 11:25 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #783  
Old 11-11-2018, 09:28 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,767
Common Motor Action 100 years old

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post

When the coil is connected to a LOAD, the approaching magnet
creates an electromagnet from the coil which is the same polarity
as the approaching magnet, slowing down its approach and
increasing the amp draw of the motor to try and maintain the
same speed, JUST AS IF it were under load, because it IS.
At top dead center, the polarity of the coil switches and it attracts
the magnet that is trying to move away, so the motor is
STILL UNDER LOAD, which CONTINUES to affect the amp draw
and/or rpm


You Sir are such an able man, the house will go smoothly and in no
time you will back in the new shop.

Your explanation above is exactly what other men have shown before
like Thane Heins did. These simple truths are important building blocks
to basic concepts in motor design. Most people don't ever get that.

The same fields resist rotor action, the departing is also resisted. You
can explain things far better than I can. Thanks for taking the time to
express literally in text form what I could not.

So many school books are lacking and our generation of people working
in the motor industry have no idea that they have been taught rubbish.

Just the facts how motors really work escapes them. Crazy.

You da man.
__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 11-11-2018 at 11:26 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #784  
Old 11-11-2018, 11:14 AM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 302
Says it all.

https://www.mdpi.com/1996-1073/7/11/7105/htm
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #785  
Old 11-11-2018, 03:12 PM
bistander bistander is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,576
A simple falsehood from you

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post

See how school boyish your approach is? Do my homework, totally
programmed thinking. My motor experience and my school book
thinking.

Cogging is when two magnetic fields interact and metal sets up a field
in opposition to the coils field.

But hey someone that can't tell the difference between AC and DC
is @Bi so you can't understand much of the intricate workings of
mother nature.

You and your kind are classical thinkers, one's who are led around
by school books, told their little degree is advanced science, when the
curriculum is identical to Jr High school govt dumbbed down nonsense.

You will never be an inventor so go play with your motors believing you
have it all. And did you watch the video's, no. Do you understand them?
No. Do you care about the extra data offered in video form? No.

You just talk silly because you are silly. Show me anything.

I watched you clutter up UFO's thread for years and then you degraded
Turion on his thread consistently ignoring the hard data only to repeat
the same slogans of the past 100 years.

You are boring. People who are that weak should sit and listen. But
then your goal is something else, isn't it? But you can't be honest.



..............................
All that has nothing to do with:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post
Cogging ...
As 1 pole draws near to a pole they resist each other ...
It is untrue. Easy to prove, or disprove.

Your definition (and Turion's) of cogging is incorrect. Cogging has nothing to do with coils and nothing to do with current. Cogging is only due to the core and magnet.

You can't back up your statement so you change the subject to me, or to coils, neither of which are relevant to cogging.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #786  
Old 11-11-2018, 03:28 PM
Turion's Avatar
Turion Turion is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,867
Which is EXACTLY what I said. Magnets and iron cores
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post

......Now introduce a coil with an iron core and NO LOAD to the rotating magnets. I don't care how fast you rotate that motor within its designated voltage limit, you will see a DIFFERENCE in amp draw of the motor when the coil is in place and/or a difference in the rpm. Put TWELVE coils in place and see what you get. At a lower speed there is cogging. At a higher speed the cogging GOES AWAY, but as long as the coil is there, MAGNETIC DRAG exists. The magnets on the rotor are ALWAYS going to be attracted to the iron in the core and are ALWAYS going to affect the amp draw of the motor or the rpm or both. Your magical "high speed rotation" will NOT eliminate this. I don't care HOW many dictionary definitions you link to.
__________________
"I aim to misbehave" Malcolm Reynolds
"Try Not! Do or do not. There is no 'Try' ". Yoda
Reply With Quote
  #787  
Old 11-11-2018, 04:00 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 302
Crap.

All this talk of cogging and anti Lens is óó .
This is a quote from a bistander find.

In addition, 24 Ω load experiments show that the efficiencies of double three-phase winding and six-phase winding are 96.56% and 98.54%, respectively, verifying the proposed high performance operation.

If any of you lot can get anywhere near these efficiencies Iíd be surprised.

At the end of the day itís efficiency that counts.

A lot of manufacturers donít bother themselves too much about efficiency,
itís more about production costs and reliability. Theyíre in it to make a profit!

John.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #788  
Old 11-11-2018, 04:12 PM
bistander bistander is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,576
No coils

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Which is EXACTLY what I said. Magnets and iron cores
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Now introduce a coil with an iron core and NO LOAD to the rotating magnets. I don't care how fast you rotate that motor within its designated voltage limit, you will see a DIFFERENCE in amp draw of the motor when the coil is in place and/or a difference in the rpm. Put TWELVE coils in place and see what you get. At a lower speed there is cogging. At a higher speed the cogging GOES AWAY, but as long as the coil is there, MAGNETIC DRAG exists. The magnets on the rotor are ALWAYS going to be attracted to the iron in the core and are ALWAYS going to affect the amp draw of the motor or the rpm or both. Your magical "high speed rotation" will NOT eliminate this. I don't care HOW many dictionary definitions you link to. Magnets are attracted to iron. PERIOD. Now I'm not saying that at 30,000 rpm the affect may be so small as to hardly be noticeable, but we are not operating at 30,000 rpm now are we?
No it is not EXACTLY what you said. You have coils. Cogging is not dependent on coils. So if something occurs in the presence of coils, it is not due to cogging. It is something else.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #789  
Old 11-11-2018, 05:23 PM
Turion's Avatar
Turion Turion is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,867
Clarification

So you are saying that when the coils are just sitting there, not under load, with their iron cores, and there is a jerking action of the rotor as the magnets go by, it is something other than cogging because there is copper wire wrapped around the iron cores? Just curious. So I guess if I take the copper away, the jerking will stop? Is that what you are saying? Or it will still be there but it isn’t cogging? Or it is cogging, but only when there is no copper? One of us is very confused.
__________________
"I aim to misbehave" Malcolm Reynolds
"Try Not! Do or do not. There is no 'Try' ". Yoda

Last edited by Turion; 11-11-2018 at 05:50 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #790  
Old 11-11-2018, 05:26 PM
Turion's Avatar
Turion Turion is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,867
Thoughts

Ismnuts,
If you think you have a generator configuration that produces more power for less input than what we are talking about, you should build it or buy it. Why waste your time here at all?
__________________
"I aim to misbehave" Malcolm Reynolds
"Try Not! Do or do not. There is no 'Try' ". Yoda
Reply With Quote
  #791  
Old 11-11-2018, 06:08 PM
bistander bistander is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,576
Stay to the point

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
So you are saying that when the coils are just sitting there, not under load, with their iron cores, and there is a jerking action of the rotor as the magnets go by, it is something other than cogging because there is copper wire wrapped around the iron cores? Just curious. So I guess if I take the copper away, the jerking will stop? Is that what you are saying? Or it will still be there but it isnít cogging? Or it is cogging, but only when there is no copper? One of us is very confused.
No, what I am saying (and I think you know it), is that cogging is due ONLY to the magnet and iron core. Any additional effects seen with coils in place are not part of or due to cogging.

Let's get back to his statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post
Cogging ...
As 1 pole draws near to a pole they resist each other ...
Do you agree with him?
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #792  
Old 11-11-2018, 06:13 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 302
Im here to.....

Just show me some genuine results greater than 98%, then we can agree
on some hitherto unrecognised physics.
Bear in mind C.
John
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #793  
Old 11-11-2018, 07:07 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 302
Clarity.

#1125 Report Post
Old 08-14-2018, 12:31 AM
Turion's Avatar
Turion Turion is online now
Platinum Member

Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,537
Generator output
The generator output is not dependent on the MOTOR other than the rpm it turns the generator at. Both modified and stock motors can deliver the rpm necessary for the generator to put out 2000 watts. Probably lots of other motors can too. And they will probably ALL do it for less than 400 watts input to the motor, IF magnetic cogging is eliminated. The advantage the modified motor has when run in the correct circuit is how much of that 400 watts can be RECOVERED and reused. Thatís all. It isnít magic. It isnít the ONLY motor that will run the generator. It is just the most EFFICIENT method I have found. If youíre only going to build a one or two coil generator, you need to take advantage of every trick we have found. If youíre going to build a 10-12,coil generator, all the little tricks arenít necessary, but they DO improve your overall COP.

I have gotten over 2000 watts out of the generator with the stock MY1016, the modified 1016, the stock MY1020, and the modified MY1020. I have also burnt up all four kinds of motors when there was too much magnetic cogging. There have been fmany different versions of my generator, and I have probably tried all four possible motors on all of them at one time or another to see what would happen. It isnít like I only burnt up ONE rewound motor and then quit using them.

Call the motor 350 Watts, thatís one hell of a claim.
John.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #794  
Old 11-11-2018, 09:09 PM
Turion's Avatar
Turion Turion is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,867
Thoughts

Bro Mikey is talking about the Lenz reaction that creates an opposing magnetic field to the approaching rotor magnet, but I think you know that. That opposing field does affect the rotor causing a kind of cogging action, unless of course you are smart enough to ELIMINATE it. Does it fit your dictionary definition of clogging? Thatís another issue. People who want to nit pick terms instead of building anything have ruined this forum.
__________________
"I aim to misbehave" Malcolm Reynolds
"Try Not! Do or do not. There is no 'Try' ". Yoda
Reply With Quote
  #795  
Old 11-11-2018, 09:19 PM
Turion's Avatar
Turion Turion is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,867
John,
Can a rotor that holds 25 1”x 1/2” neo magnets be turned by a motor past 12 coils on an input of less than 400 watts. That’s 24 volts at 12 amps or a bit more. That is EXACTLY what is happening with my generator. And MUCH of that input is recoverable.

So now let’s talk about generator output. 1800 watts is about 150 watts per coil. At 160 volts that’s less than ONE amp per coil. I posted videos YEARS ago showing the coils putting out 120 volts at 1.5 amps, but those were SMALLER coils. Other folks have posted videos showing MORE output that THAT from a coil.

The rotor on this generator free wheels with NO magnetic drag and NO Lenz. For reasons I have described in DETAIL. It is NOT rocket science.
__________________
"I aim to misbehave" Malcolm Reynolds
"Try Not! Do or do not. There is no 'Try' ". Yoda
Reply With Quote
  #796  
Old 11-11-2018, 10:25 PM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Bro Mikey is talking about the Lenz reaction...
..
People who want to nit pick terms instead of building anything have
ruined this forum.

Ole Bi is at his rockin horse arm chair command center, fuddy duddy
old guy with delusions of God-Hood. He gets off about this time, I
wonder what causes it?

#Bi-directional

Yer switchin sides again, cogging don't go away, that's right.

Maybe there is hope for hopeless
__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 11-11-2018 at 10:29 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #797  
Old 11-11-2018, 10:57 PM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,767
There really are more complex things going on inside a motor than
folks can ever understand. That is why very few sharp Engineers will
come on a board and try to explain what took them in many cases
8 years to thoroughly grasp.

And yet with all of their years of work out of a book and on paper these
high level people often won't except the hard data offered to them by
the hands on experiments.

The patent office is a great example of the deep state run system of
men who are just like all the public schools are, all of the colleges, most
of our Universities.

"Can't be done" is the slogan

It is so refreshing to see someone such as yourself break the bands, have
good writing and communication skills, do these tests, follow the
experiments with the intestinal fortitude to stand up against the grain
of weak little men.

The cogging may seem to go away, but cogging is that clunk we feel
like with a stepper motor, you turn it one way or to the right of a magnetic
pole and is clunks or stops. Extra force must be applied to over come
the lock. Everyone knows that, so when people try to contested those
observable effect, it shows they haven't the foggiest on simple Jr high
science.

The cogging is not so easy to observe in the form of a clunk yet the faster
it clunks the faster the rpm with each clunk duration becoming less and
less. Faster does not mean it has gone away, it's duration at high speeds
is so short and spread out over 1000's of pole exchanges that this
effect turns into more things.

It does not go away.







Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Which is EXACTLY what I said. Magnets
and iron cores
Originally Posted by Turion

......Now introduce a coil with an iron core and NO LOAD to the
rotating magnets. I don't care how fast you rotate that motor within
its designated voltage limit, you will see a DIFFERENCE in amp draw
of the motor when the coil is in place and/or a difference in the rpm.
Put TWELVE coils in place and see what you get. At a lower speed
there is cogging. At a higher speed the cogging GOES AWAY, but as
long as the coil is there, MAGNETIC DRAG exists. The magnets on the
rotor are ALWAYS going to be attracted to the iron in the core and are ALWAYS going to affect the amp draw of the motor or the rpm or both.
Your magical "high speed rotation" will NOT eliminate this. I don't care
HOW many dictionary definitions you link to.
__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 11-12-2018 at 04:39 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #798  
Old 11-11-2018, 11:10 PM
bistander bistander is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,576
Words have meaning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Bro Mikey is talking about the Lenz reaction that creates an opposing magnetic field to the approaching rotor magnet, but I think you know that. ...
I know what he wrote and posted, just like what you post. If you, or he, use terms incorrectly, should that not be pointed out and fixed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
... Does it fit your dictionary definition of clogging?
Clogging: defined as a type of folk dancing, or causing a blockage or hindrance not allowing passage. Off topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
... Thatís another issue. People who want to nit pick terms instead of building anything have ruined this forum.
What's wrong with accurate and understandable communication? And I have built a lot of things. I built that dual converter circuit of yours and posted data. Instead of discussion, I get insults and humiliation. I refuse to build junk which I know won't work.

I think the trouble with this forum is not me, or those that subscribe to the scientific method, but you, who makes claims without proof, or even relevant evidence, and refuses to support your claims. Talking about cogging, or Thane Hines, is irrelevant to a 1800 watt output generator which uses 300 watts input.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #799  
Old 11-11-2018, 11:33 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 302
My experience.

With good quality wheelchair motors and a carefully matched load
I reckon about the best I can get is 70%.
Some people have the idea that designers are idiots, in bistander's
generator info they're claiming 98%, I think that's a fantastic
achievement.
I'd like to see someone beat 98%,that's the challenge.
John.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #800  
Old 11-11-2018, 11:43 PM
Turion's Avatar
Turion Turion is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,867
Motor efficiency

Ismnuts,
When they talk about 98%, they are talking about the motorís ability to convert the electrical input into mechanical energy. Whoop tee do! If a motor is only 80% efficient but you can recover 60% of the power used to run it in the first place, what is the ďefficiencyĒ of the motor? It is STULL only 80%, but there is a gain in the ďsystem.Ē That is what we are talking about here. You canít look at just one part. You have to look at the system as a whole.
__________________
"I aim to misbehave" Malcolm Reynolds
"Try Not! Do or do not. There is no 'Try' ". Yoda
Reply With Quote
  #801  
Old 11-12-2018, 12:00 AM
Turion's Avatar
Turion Turion is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,867
Confusion

Bro Mikey

Apparently bi has permanent magnet motors that have no wires on the stators. No coils at all. Since he says if you have coils, or wires on the stator you have no cogging. And cogging is the magnets on the rotor reacting to the iron in the stator, which, according to him, canít have wire on them or because that would make them coils and when you have coils it is something different and not cogging. I guess
__________________
"I aim to misbehave" Malcolm Reynolds
"Try Not! Do or do not. There is no 'Try' ". Yoda
Reply With Quote
  #802  
Old 11-12-2018, 12:08 AM
bistander bistander is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,576
He can only distract and confuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Ismnuts,
When they talk about 98%, they are talking about the motorís ability to convert the electrical input into mechanical energy. Whoop tee do! If a motor is only 80% efficient but you can recover 60% of the power used to run it in the first place, what is the ďefficiencyĒ of the motor? It is STULL only 80%, but there is a gain in the ďsystem.Ē That is what we are talking about here. You canít look at just one part. You have to look at the system as a whole.
Like this?

....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Just want to point out that my generator puts out between 1800-2000 watts while running on a STOCK electric motor that requires 240 watts input. ...
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #803  
Old 11-12-2018, 12:16 AM
bistander bistander is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,576
????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Bro Mikey

Apparently bi has permanent magnet motors that have no wires on the stators. No coils at all. Since he says if you have coils, or wires on the stator you have no cogging. And cogging is the magnets on the rotor reacting to the iron in the stator, which, according to him, canít have wire on them or because that would make them coils and when you have coils it is something different and not cogging. I guess
What are you talking about?

You can't even learn what generator cogging is. Cogging would and does occur without the wires because it only depends on the core and magnets. Coils and wires are irrelevant to cogging. What's so difficult to understand about that?
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #804  
Old 11-12-2018, 02:37 AM
Turion's Avatar
Turion Turion is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,867
What I am talking about is that in the kinds of motors YOU are talking about, the iron you mention is the iron of the stator that interacts with the rotating magnets on the rotor. Those stators have coils wound around them. Coils. Do you get that? coils.

Now in the generator WE are talking about (or use it as a motor) the stator metal is the iron core of the coils. Without it, there is no generating or motoring action. So the cores of these coils are JUST as important as the iron of the stators YOU are talking about. Remove the "coils" from our machines and you remove the iron.

So when you say the coils have NOTHING to do with it, you are about as far from correct as you can get. The iron in the core of those coils is EVERYTHING. and it is what causes the cogging. Got it? So you cannot even DISCUSS the generator without the coils. Neither could you discuss it if it were being used as a motor.
__________________
"I aim to misbehave" Malcolm Reynolds
"Try Not! Do or do not. There is no 'Try' ". Yoda

Last edited by Turion; 11-12-2018 at 03:18 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #805  
Old 11-12-2018, 03:19 AM
bistander bistander is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,576
Coils & cores

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
What I am talking about is that in the kinds of motors YOU are talking about, the iron you mention is the iron of the stator that interacts with the rotating magnets on the rotor. Those stators have coils wound around them. Coils. Do you get that? coils.

Now in the generator WE are talking about (or use it as a motor) the stator metal is the iron core of the coils. Without it, there is no generating or motoring action. So the cores of these coils are JUST as important as the iron of the stators YOU are talking about. Remove the "coils" from our machines and you remove the iron.

So when you say the coils have NOTHING to do with it, you are about as far from correct as you can get. The iron in the core of those coils is EVERYTHING. and it is what causes the cogging. Got it? So you cannot evenDISCUSS the generator without the coils. Neither could you discuss it if it were being used as a motor.
The coil is the copper wire. The core is the iron in the center of the coil. Those are two separate pieces or components of the generator. The coil core in your device is the same as a tooth on the stator of a more typical commercial armature (which happens to be the stator in a PM brushless generator). If you took your coils off of the cores, leaving the iron cores on your stator and turned the rotor with the magnets attached, you will getting cogging.

Put the coils back on the cores and you still have cogging. The cogging doesn't change due to the copper coils.

Do you ever read up on this? There is a lot of literature out there. The parts and terminology of generators are well established. Many of the home wind turbine builders use homemade generators similar to what you build.
__________________
 

Last edited by bistander; 11-12-2018 at 03:26 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #806  
Old 11-12-2018, 04:05 AM
Turion's Avatar
Turion Turion is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,867
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
bi,


Now introduce a coil with an iron core and NO LOAD to the rotating magnets. I don't care how fast you rotate that motor within its designated voltage limit, you will see a DIFFERENCE in amp draw of the motor when the coil is in place and/or a difference in the rpm. Put TWELVE coils in place and see what you get. At a lower speed there is cogging. At a higher speed the cogging GOES AWAY, but as long as the coil is there, MAGNETIC DRAG exists. The magnets on the rotor are ALWAYS going to be attracted to the iron in the core and are ALWAYS going to affect the amp draw of the motor or the rpm or both. Your magical "high speed rotation" will NOT eliminate this. I don't care HOW many dictionary definitions you link to. Magnets are attracted to iron. PERIOD. Now I'm not saying that at 30,000 rpm the affect may be so small as to hardly be noticeable, but we are not operating at 30,000 rpm now are we?
THIS was my definition of cogging, which YOU have stated is incorrect, yet you just described it exactly the same way. You say eliminating cogging is unimportant because it goes away at high speed. I say THE AMP DRAW of the motor IS AFFECTED as long as the iron is present, there is a MAGNETIC DRAG on the motor (which is cogging sped up) therefore ELIMINATING cogging is beneficial. You don't think it is necessary because at high speeds there is no PHYSICAL affect that is VISIBLE, but there is still an amp draw from rotating the magnet past the iron core. MEASURE IT WITH AND WITHOUT an iron core present, or in the case of MY generator, with and without 12 iron cores present, and then tell me there is NO benefit to eliminating that increased amp draw. NOWHERE in any of your dictionary definitions of cogging do they discuss the increased AMP DRAW that would NOT BE THERE if the metal was not there, and which I am able to eliminate through magnetic neutralization. You continue to put down something you don't know a single thing about and insist that WE need to do our homework.
__________________
"I aim to misbehave" Malcolm Reynolds
"Try Not! Do or do not. There is no 'Try' ". Yoda
Reply With Quote
  #807  
Old 11-12-2018, 04:49 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Bro Mikey

Apparently bi has permanent magnet motors that have no wires on
the stators. No coils at all. ......... I guess

:rofl :
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #808  
Old 11-12-2018, 05:47 AM
bistander bistander is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
THIS was my definition of cogging, which YOU have stated is incorrect, yet you just described it exactly the same way. You say eliminating cogging is unimportant because it goes away at high speed. I say THE AMP DRAW of the motor IS AFFECTED as long as the iron is present, there is a MAGNETIC DRAG on the motor (which is cogging sped up) therefore ELIMINATING cogging is beneficial. You don't think it is necessary because at high speeds there is no PHYSICAL affect that is VISIBLE, but there is still an amp draw from rotating the magnet past the iron core. MEASURE IT WITH AND WITHOUT an iron core present, or in the case of MY generator, with and without 12 iron cores present, and then tell me there is NO benefit to eliminating that increased amp draw. NOWHERE in any of your dictionary definitions of cogging do they discuss the increased AMP DRAW that would NOT BE THERE if the metal was not there, and which I am able to eliminate through magnetic neutralization. You continue to put down something you don't know a single thing about and insist that WE need to do our homework.
You're wrong. In most of the "dictionary definitions" you'll find it stated that cogging torque does not show in the net torque of the machine, or in other words, cogging has no affect on the net current. It's just a ripple.

Magnetic drag is not cogging. Show me a reputable source which says it is.

And I do know a great deal about electric machines, motors and generators. But you refuse to learn. But all this cogging and clogging is a waste of time. Show me the 1800 watt output with 300 watt input generator.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #809  
Old 11-12-2018, 06:30 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,767
Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
You're wrong. Show me the 1800
watt output with 300 watt input generator.
No, No motor mouth, show me anything. You keep repeating, table
turning riddles. Show something and stop boasting about nothing.

Everybody has motor experience. Show us.

Turion Man is da man and he don't just flap his jaw, he shows his stuff
around. He is one of the few men who actual had an idea and has shown
his working unit. Today it works, not someday.

Where is yours? Did you go over the instructional data? No? Still repeating?
Repeating old slogans? Hummm..?
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #810  
Old 11-12-2018, 08:47 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,767
Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post

You can't back up your statement so you change the subject to me,
or to coils, neither of which are relevant to cogging.
What is relevant is that you don't understand how motors operate
today and for the past 100 plus years. That is what you have shown
the group.

The important data of the repealing forces is very important and you
have ignored the standard definitions while quoting the dictionary
riddles. You and the classical thinker are wrong or confused.

The reason you can't think for yourself is that you went to govt run
schools and tho some did also go to those were able to read between
the lines. Not you.

The govt controlled schools of the past 100 years and the same control
freaks who silence Tesla. Your responses have uncovered your ability
to grasp the experiment and you can't see it. I got what I wanted from
you.

But you don't seem to know that. Turion is a teacher and saw this so
is having pity for you and those who think just like you. Go back and
read and review the information offered to you.

Repeating will get you nowhere on this thread. All it does is gets you
a sort of shame that brings about pity. However someone out there
will learn from this.

..................

.........................
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
splitting, positive, advanced, videos, basic, thread, post, energy, study, qualifies, clear, video, learn, concept, verified, foundational, spite, failed, rofl, adepts, called, attempts, point, students, experimenters

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Please consider supporting Energetic Forum with a voluntary monthly subscription.

Choose your voluntary subscription

For one-time donations, please use the below button.


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v1.4.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Shoutbox provided by vBShout v6.2.8 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2007-2015 Copyright - Energetic Forum - All Rights Reserved

Bedini RPX Sideband Generator

Tesla Chargers