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Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

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  #631  
Old 10-01-2018, 01:28 AM
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And you are still the best that we have up, but no working example
available. I learned much from you and am thankful. You must remember
now and in the future that I want my 14 year to show everything and I
won't subject him and others to belittling behavior

Not everyone is as strong as us and besides is a bad example.

It is time someone shows a working unit that goes with all of the blah
blah blah. People want to see it working first, then you will get some
investors. Jordan is barely a teenager, he don't care about investors.

There are motors all over the web that use internal magnets added
to cancel magnet pole locking. Been around 150 years. Not many will
come right on and show you what they did inside that motor. Same
thing with all free energy on the web, nobody gives. But of course
they want to save the world.PLZ>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Just a line of bull

On the other hand you gave more than most. AAA+++ like I said
you are the best so far.

Now on to a working example. I am working on a teaching aid that shows
the possibilities for magnetic alignment of composite iron oxide with
additives. This aid helps to teach the lesser to get them up to speed
before they reach 70 yrs of age. An aluminum mold will press composite
as it is heated. magnets are placed to align the material.

Hypothetical ideas are without meaning unless practical designs are
shared. This is how to do it. It's all pie in the sky.

What and how is quite different than "JUST DO IT" We can not expect
everyone to be a mechanic and scientist, and a Chemist and an inventor
plus a master rigger, these are talents possessed by the collective.

Everyone must share their gift or nothing gets off the ground.

.................................................. .....
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  #632  
Old 10-01-2018, 07:35 PM
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Hi all, Hi Bromikey, I feel compelled to respond, because that was a relatively fair and balanced observation of the situation mike.
I can't really knock turion, because compared to the rest of humanity, etc., he has shared a good amount of information, that many would not share without something in return and for that I am grateful.

I think I figured out that saying, ' No good deed goes unpunished'.
I thnik that is said, because the systems of this matrix reality, do not like good deeds or do gooders.
It likes people that think only of themselves and maybe their immediate family.
These matrix systems celebrate when we refuse to share freely and when we are in fear of not having enough of what we need in the next moment.
Which is precisely why things are set up the way they are, to prevent the giving, the selfless giving that would neutralize those systems in the blink of an eye or like a thief in the night, wink wink.
I'm fairly familiar with the teachings of jesus and at this point in my life, I see exactly why certain wisdom was shared.
He was able to forsee these days of division, that have been fostered by this matrix system around us.

The original Willy Wonka movie, truly was trying to show us to let go and have faith and the keys to the higher worlds of creation will be given, places where these matrix systems of division are not allowed to be created.
peace love light
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  #633  
Old 10-01-2018, 08:50 PM
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Glad you young guys are still there and I am sorry I was ever part
of being a task master, driving folks to work projects. People are
what they are and just need to offer what they can without being
slaughtered for their views.

better times ahead.
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  #634  
Old 10-03-2018, 02:19 AM
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I can see why Turion uses a conventional motor to run his generator
heads. The significant part of this video is in the showing of the running
temp of the motor casing.

Jordan has not done any runs yet with the modified motor which burns
up a bunch of energy in lots and lots of heat.

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  #635  
Old 10-09-2018, 11:13 PM
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Jordan's school work = 3 battery generator systems


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  #636  
Old 10-10-2018, 02:11 AM
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Jordan does 4 more runs but using 2 motors in parallel to increase
the amp draw a little bit. I have some tiny pumps so maybe we might
see if we could use some of this wasted mechanical. Not sure yet.

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  #637  
Old 10-11-2018, 04:08 AM
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Faithful Turion

Glad you pop in now and again. I don't have anyone to rattle their
chain. I mean nobody, I mean nobody looks at this stuff with much
understanding as to what it is. I always say they are like a calf staring
at a new fence the farmer just put up.

What is amazing to me is how little you can find on the subject, like
say on youtube or anywhere else. You da man Mister Turion. You got
me in a good mood today>

Now, lets get down to business, if you don't mind. I was thinking that
wouldn't it be nice for Jordan to just leave his motor the way it is for
now while he is doing runs, I don't want to blow his mind just yet. Soooo...
I was thinking about my small pumps to see how much water we could
move for one experiment.

It might be easier to mount 1 generator coil and then use the opposing
magnet patent approach to see if we could sponge off small amounts
of power WITHOUT dragging down his slow moving rig. We not much.

The modified motor burned up boo-koo amounts of heat, this drains
the batteries down, I mean it gets hot hot. So much heat is lost that
I had to drill holes in it just so I don't burn my hand. It acts as a good
heater for the room, if you want to count that?

I burnt the zhit out of brushes more than once so it does not give
Jordan a controlled environment so he can have stable results. We
will be doing that, don't get me wrong, it's just not on the rush menu.

The magnetic cancellation experiment are more appealing to me for
Jordan at this time.

Here are some thoughts.

My rotors at all hand drilled, no CNC accuracy of 1 tens of 1 thousandths
or anything close. Some of the holes are drilled as much as 1mm off.
The little rotor is still just sitting here with magnets that can be forced
in and out of their sockets, if you work hard. I like the way they sit and
how we can set them all north on one side and all south poles on the
other. This would allow Jordan to use one coil to generator and then
play with opposing or counteractive magnets on the other side. What I
was about to say when I talked about holes being drilled with low accuracy
was that the opposing magnets could be bigger around, more powerful
and then much much further away leaving more flexibility for adjustment.

Safer too, just something fun to try.
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  #638  
Old 10-11-2018, 08:55 AM
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Yes I agree, there is much to be learned about magnetic neutralization
that has captivated my thoughts. Using just the neutralization approach
should be enough to go over 1 on the cop. Great testing. Thx so much
for all your help. I could never have done any of this without you.

I'll be back. I stole the terminator's line.
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  #639  
Old 10-13-2018, 10:11 PM
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Plz read carefully and do some mental cataloging. Core material
science is not a new subject. It came about in the early 1900's
other or additional finding that came later are often processes that
make the core for a lower cost. For our projects there is a target
frequency so look below to find the mix. Let me help you, look for
the word PERMALLOY. What is posted below is out of the web collection
of facts given to us by the A.I.

One thing is certain, iron composite core material does not qualify as a
functioning part for transformers. YOU MUST USE OTHER METALS

Further in order to get the particulate close together you should know
that more than one idea exists. Heat, pressure, yes but lets not forget
about the oxide coating on each and every particle just sitting around in
a bag. Also different amounts of oxides might form on each individual
piece, randomly. We can not allow this

The core material must be controlled.

ACIDS ETCH

Diluted acids clean the oxides OFF. Magnet alignment is a must.

If you look deep enough magnet alignment can be achieved and is in
many different ways. You must get all the pieces of the puzzle first
and then use small amounts to create your samples, say a 1/4" dia
rod by 1" long.

Each tiny rod can be wound with 42awg wire using a cordless drill, then
you can view your success or failure on a scope.












Vitreous metal

Amorphous metal is a variety of alloys (e.g. Metglas) that are non-crystalline or glassy. These are being used to create high-efficiency transformers. The materials can be highly responsive to magnetic fields for low hysteresis losses, and they can also have lower conductivity to reduce eddy current losses. China is currently making widespread industrial and power grid usage of these transformers for new installations.
Powdered metals

Powder cores consist of metal grains mixed with a suitable organic or inorganic binder, and pressed to desired density. Higher density is achieved with higher pressure and lower amount of binder. Higher density cores have higher permeability, but lower resistance and therefore higher losses due to eddy currents. Finer particles allow operation at higher frequencies, as the eddy currents are mostly restricted to within the individual grains. Coating of the particles with an insulating layer, or their separation with a thin layer of a binder, lowers the eddy current losses. Presence of larger particles can degrade high-frequency performance. Permeability is influenced by the spacing between the grains, which form distributed air gap; the less gap, the higher permeability and the less-soft saturation. Due to large difference of densities, even a small amount of binder, weight-wise, can significantly increase the volume and therefore intergrain spacing.

Lower permeability materials are better suited for higher frequencies, due to balancing of core and winding losses.

The surface of the particles is often oxidized and coated with a phosphate layer, to provide them with mutual electrical insulation.
Iron

Powdered iron is the cheapest material. It has higher core loss than the more advanced alloys, but this can be compensated for by making the core bigger; it is advantageous where cost is more important than mass and size. Saturation flux of about 1 to 1.5 tesla. Relatively high hysteresis and eddy current loss, operation limited to lower frequencies (approx. below 100 kHz). Used in energy storage inductors, DC output chokes, differential mode chokes, triac regulator chokes, chokes for power factor correction, resonant inductors, and pulse and flyback transformers.[4]

The binder used is usually epoxy or other organic resin, susceptible to thermal aging. At higher temperatures, typically above 125 °C, the binder degrades and the core magnetic properties may change. With more heat-resistant binders the cores can be used up to 200 °C.[5]

Iron powder cores are most commonly available as toroids. Sometimes as E, EI, and rods or blocks, used primarily in high-power and high-current parts.

Carbonyl iron is significantly more expensive than hydrogen-reduced iron.
Carbonyl iron
Main article: carbonyl iron

Powdered cores made of carbonyl iron, a highly pure iron, have high stability of parameters across a wide range of temperatures and magnetic flux levels, with excellent Q factors between 50 kHz and 200 MHz. Carbonyl iron powders are basically constituted of micrometer-size spheres of iron coated in a thin layer of electrical insulation. This is equivalent to a microscopic laminated magnetic circuit (see silicon steel, above), hence reducing the eddy currents, particularly at very high frequencies. Carbonyl iron has lower losses than hydrogen-reduced iron, but also lower permeability.

A popular application of carbonyl iron-based magnetic cores is in high-frequency and broadband inductors and transformers, especially higher power ones.

Carbonyl iron cores are often called "RF cores".

The as-prepared particles, "E-type"and have onion-like skin, with concentric shells separated with a gap. They contain significant amount of carbon. They behave as much smaller than what their outer size would suggest. The "C-type" particles can be prepared by heating the E-type ones in hydrogen atmosphere at 400 °C for prolonged time, resulting in carbon-free powders.[6]
Hydrogen-reduced iron

Powdered cores made of hydrogen reduced iron have higher permeability but lower Q than carbonyl iron. They are used mostly for electromagnetic interference filters and low-frequency chokes, mainly in switched-mode power supplies.

Hydrogen-reduced iron cores are often called "power cores".
MPP (molypermalloy)

An alloy of about 2% molybdenum, 81% nickel, and 17% iron. Very low core loss, low hysteresis and therefore low signal distortion. Very good temperature stability. High cost. Maximum saturation flux of about 0.8 tesla. Used in high-Q filters, resonant circuits, loading coils, transformers, chokes, etc.[4]


The material was first introduced in 1940, used in loading coils to compensate capacitance in long telephone lines. It is usable up to about 200 kHz to 1 MHz, depending on vendor.[5] It is still used in above-ground telephone lines, due to its temperature stability. Underground lines, where temperature is more stable, tend to use ferrite cores due to their lower cost.[6]
High-flux (Ni-Fe)

An alloy of about 50%-50% of nickel and iron. High energy storage, saturation flux density of about 1.5 tesla. Residual flux density near zero. Used in applications with high DC current bias (line noise filters, or inductors in switching regulators) or where low residual flux density is needed (e.g. pulse and flyback transformers, the high saturation is suitable for unipolar drive), especially where space is constrained. The material is usable up to about 200 kHz.[4]
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  #640  
Old 10-13-2018, 10:27 PM
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Contamination of Iron Oxide

Read here about uncontrolled iron oxide soil contaminates.

https://scitechdaily.com/direct-obse...in-iron-oxide/

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  #641  
Old 10-14-2018, 08:32 PM
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Custom Magnetite/Ferrite Experiments?


Hello
I am really interested in knowing what your results were with the magnetite/ferrite testing in your awesome thread posts...
Splitting The Positive

It seems that is where a lot of people are hung up right now for long term use, their stuff is overheating and if it overheats too much as Turion said it will melt the enameling and ruin the results, but at what ratio, nobody seems to know.

I've contacted 15+ different providers of ferrite and nobody makes 3/4" diamater x 3 1/4" length cores so it will have to be made. I saw a guide on youtube where he pours it into a silicon shell and it comes out great. So I am stuck on the formula now and ingredients.

I did a lot of digging and research on this topic online and there is a thread post where one person said...
Magnetite transformer cores.

"I've tried using magnetite in a transformer configuration once. I had very poor results. Its permeability is too low in my opinion."

And someone responded with a link to two posts...
http://www.energeticforum.com/191767-post4638.html
http://www.energeticforum.com/191769-post4639.html

"Hey guys, I have some experience with Magnetite,black sand, Fe304, Pure Fe304, the deco stuff, just about all versions. If you get the right stuff it has some very good characteristics, It is an AMORPHOUS, which basically means that is magnetic but not conductive, so there are no eddy currents and very low losses. It can switch a very high freq. well into the Mhz.
and works well at low freq. It is not as permeable as ferrite or iron, but it much better than air. It can molded into any size or shape, it is very cheap and easy to find. The stuff you want is Prospecting black sand that has already been "pulled" for gold. They separate the gold from the sand with magnet tools, so the left over sand is purely magnetic with small traces of other magnetic material. You can get this from Ebay, DONT confuse with sand with gold that you buy to prospect yourself."

"Pure Fe304 that is produced for pigments and ink is does not work work at all. It is gound to fine and losses its randomness and permeability drops. The deco stuff is not worth your effort."


So I am wondering if that brand version of it you bought worked well as I read it was very fine particles. If so that would be great because it's more easily attainable on places like Amazon as well.

I saw online there are online calculators on ferrite versus number of turns and how there is all this science behind having the right core and I think eventually this is something I need to learn and figure out.

There is a post by Allen Burgess in a thread where he shares something interesting, not sure if he is being truthful but nobody is paying attention to his long thread where he posts by himself non-stop. He is making it sound like based on his ferrite ratio, it's like getting more coil on his machine in output...
Mechanical Magnetic Torque Amplifier

"The finished coil and high perm ferrite core measures .121 Henrys. The air core was 73 mH.

I emptied the two bags of equal weight Iron powder and Magnatite powder in the large section of a three section Tupperware tray and blended them; I then emptied the entire two tubes of metal epoxy (Locktite) in a second tray and mixed them in a third, then packed the dry slurry into the coil core. Everything came out perfect. I then threw everything in the trash including two metal dining spoons.

The increase in inductance equals 48 mH. That's a 66% or a 2/3 increase in inductance. That equals a lot of wire!"

Sorry for the long post but all this stuff is very interesting to me. I hope your day is going well with your research and experiments.
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  #642  
Old 10-14-2018, 10:59 PM
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Hi BroMikey,

Have you seen these offers here? they do not have the exact sizes you need but you may be able to make trade offs in bobbin sizes:
(903) 383-7047 Stormwise Ferrite Rods Core permeabilities are included.

Another possibility would be to stack several smaller sized ferrite rods, like shown here:
Loop Ferrite Rod Antenna for MW

At ebay you can find many choices for ferrite rods with known permeability values too so you could assemble your cores by stacking them both next to each other (radially) and also place length wise the stacked ones close to each other.
No problem magnetically that you would not have a solid continuous single core but a multiple stacked one.
See such offer from a random search https://www.ebay.com/itm/253602531263
that would approach your size by stacking 3 or 4 in their radial direction and then place two more such stackings length wise to get near to the needed 3 inch long core and near to the 3/4 inch OD.

Gyula
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  #643  
Old 10-15-2018, 01:33 AM
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thx Gyula
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  #644  
Old 10-15-2018, 04:35 AM
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Low temp composite Nickel Ferrites


https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q...=1&oi=scholart
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  #645  
Old 10-15-2018, 07:32 AM
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Metglas ribbon for winding transformer cores.

I just need to find the right one for 20khz somewhere in the audio
range might work. This way for about $70 - $100 I can custom
make a "C" core the way I want it.

Al I need is the approx. mix in tape form.

https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/amo...s-2605sa1.html
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  #646  
Old 10-15-2018, 08:19 AM
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Metglas power core number

https://metglas.com/pulse-power-cores/

I found the number or the answer for a power core made of Metglas
ribbon. Here is one proof.

https://www.hitachimetals.com/materi..._forms_opt.pdf

And the supplier sells my width of 20mm the number being 2605sa1.
$7 per kilogram or 2.2lbs minimum order 10 kilograms so looks like I
will end up with 22 pounds of ribbon for $70 bucks plus shipping costs.

See what I mean? Of course you will need an account with them.


https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...188568756LI8Fj




......................
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  #647  
Old 10-16-2018, 10:28 PM
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Here is another verification for ribbon or tape Metglas 2605sa1

In this PDF we see an example of it's use with a 12khz switching
circuit.

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Core-loss-of-Metglas-alloy-2605SA1-in-terms-of-flux-density-and-frequency-diamond-marker_fig7_261141539
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  #648  
Old 10-17-2018, 09:22 AM
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I've had an account with Alibaba for a few years now and the price
shipped to the door is as follows for this 22 pound roll of tape or ribbon.

$70 for the 22lbs of tape + $75 shipping = $145 total to the door.

Here is my part and data sheet. Still not sure yet, thinking.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...34c7MEY0va&s=p

Well the data sheet is coming, 1 min plz

Maybe someone can understand this sheet better than I.


............


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  #649  
Old 10-17-2018, 09:33 AM
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There is significant core loss at 8kHz.
I think it is upper frequency limits.
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  #650  
Old 10-17-2018, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by padova View Post
There is significant core loss at 8kHz.
I think it is upper frequency limits.
I think you are right. This stuff is made for 50hz to 400hz not sure which
data sheet that is.

Here is a better graph of metglas 2605sa1

What are your thoughts on this? I am slow at understanding this chart.

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  #651  
Old 10-17-2018, 11:27 PM
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Yes I think that metglas is for lower frequencies.

Looks like chart is for frequency against flux density which depends on
the current through the windings.

For 10kHz and up, i would use ferrite core. An below 10kHz as well.
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  #652  
Old 10-19-2018, 02:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by padova View Post
Yes I think that metglas is for lower frequencies.

Looks like chart is for frequency against flux density which depends on
the current through the windings.

For 10kHz and up, i would use ferrite core. An below 10kHz as well.
I have another data sheet for Nano products. She said (Cherry from China)
this product is good for as high as 50khz, let me know what this means.

Here is the link, data sheet and the price is $65 for 22lbs plus $81 shipping.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...7783NBMDFA&s=p


http://flyer.thenetteam.net/3battery...ibbon1k107.pdf








..............
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  #653  
Old 10-19-2018, 08:59 PM
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I guess I can call technical support. Those guys know.
The people from these forums are guessing the best they can
but I need more. I do not know how to put this B-H curve into
perspective. Does this material get hot at 1000hz or 2000hz?

This is my question. Whats Digikey's phone number?
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  #654  
Old 10-20-2018, 02:15 AM
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Don't feed the trolls, some people have nothing to offer while
the ones they criticize have given everything.

Digikey pointed me toward engineering. They can't keep up with the
latest material science, it's moving so fast.

Here is another example using 2605sa1, the nano stuff is even better.

Cheap.


https://www.hitachimetals.com/materi...lletin_opt.pdf
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  #655  
Old 10-20-2018, 02:33 AM
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Trolls are not able to go past the 150 year year old science in
their 1942 books, on the other hand I'll bring us all up to speed
with the latest data evolution for cheap metal ribbon.

Read Here



Hitachi Metals America Top
Materials & Products
Amorphous & Nanocrystalline

Amorphous & Nanocrystalline

MetglasŪ is an amorphous metal, Amorphous metals do not have crystalline structure like other magnetic materials. All the atoms in an amorphous metal are randomly arranged, thus giving it a higher resistivity (about three times) value than that for crystalline counterparts. Amorphous alloys are prepared by cooling the melt at about million degrees per second. This fast cooling does not give the atoms enough time to rearrange into stable crystalline form. As a result one gets metastable amorphous structure. Because of the absence of crystalline structure amorphous alloys are magnetically soft (lower coercivity, lower core loss, higher permeability). High resistivity gives lower loss at higher frequencies. The losses are among the lowest of any known magnetic materials.

Nanocrystalline or FinemetŪ Nanocrystalline - The precursor of FINEMETŪ Nanocrystalline is amorphous ribbon (non-crystalline) obtained by rapid quenching at one million °C/second from the molten metal consisting of Fe, Si, B and small amounts of Cu and Nb. These crystallized alloys have grains which are extremely uniform and small, "about ten nanometers in size". Amorphous metals which contain certain alloy elements show superior soft magnetic properties through crystallization. It was commonly known that the characteristics of soft magnetic materials are "larger crystal grains yield better soft magnetic properties". Contrary to this common belief, soft magnetic material consisting of a small, "nano-order", crystal grains have excellent soft magnetic properties.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...m5oNQDvMCTEPsd


https://metglas.com/wp-content/uploa...l-Bulletin.pdf


https://metglas.com/wp-content/uploa...l-Bulletin.pdf



......................
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Old 10-21-2018, 02:06 AM
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BroMikey

If you buy those magnetic tapes you'll find how difficult is to manipulate them.
Unless you have some machine for that.
But maybe I'm wrong.
Go for it then.
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Old 10-21-2018, 02:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by padova View Post
BroMikey

If you buy those magnetic tapes you'll find how difficult is to manipulate them.
Unless you have some machine for that.
But maybe I'm wrong.
Go for it then. :-)
Yes I agree

The way it should be done is quite different from what the average
backyard rigger might think. There must first be a form or a specially
cut bobbin to wind tape onto, next a certain amount of tension as winding
is done and at the same time the tape must have a fine wetting of
epoxy glue. This glue is pressed out under pressure.

The bobbin should be metallic so the epoxy can be cooked at 300-400F.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-diwGwgQX8




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Last edited by BroMikey; 10-21-2018 at 02:43 AM.
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  #658  
Old 10-21-2018, 09:53 AM
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BroMikey BroMikey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by padova View Post
BroMikey

If you buy those magnetic tapes you'll find how difficult is to manipulate them.
Unless you have some machine for that.
But maybe I'm wrong.
Go for it then.
At best all I have so far on metglas is conflicting data. Here is a graph
from folks not in sales. Not sure about anything yet.



Magnetization curves of 9 ferromagnetic materials, showing saturation. 1. Sheet steel, 2. Silicon steel, 3. Cast steel, 4. Tungsten steel, 5. Magnet steel, 6. Cast iron, 7. Nickel, 8. Cobalt, 9. Magnetite


https://metglas.com/wp-content/uploa...01-Seminar.pdf




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Last edited by BroMikey; 10-21-2018 at 09:57 AM.
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  #659  
Old 10-21-2018, 11:28 PM
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BroMikey BroMikey is offline
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Okay here is the latest contact information from the direct supplier
where I can get a 22 pound roll of the advance ribbon nanocrystalline
and SHE the office girl states that their cores are target 20khz.

My 22 pound roll delivered is $145.

Here is a picture of some of their core builds and she can take drawings
so mine can be made for me. Also please review this data sheet and
those of you who are much more skilled at looking at these can tell me
if this is all some sort of hoax. Or is technology moving faster than we
might have expected?

PS, nevermind the little man behind the wall of doubt and disbelief, he
is a close replication of the disruption A.I. bots with one small difference
bots are not Bi

KingMagnetics

Nanocrystalline Material Characteristics – King Magnetics

https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...5f5429fa85D6Ie








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  #660  
Old 10-22-2018, 03:51 AM
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BroMikey BroMikey is offline
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Here is another one of Turions machines. I'll bet he is running it
between positives. However what we need to observe is the age old
Watson machine to overcome cogging. Cogging is what drags down
our motors today. Also see the video I made using Turion's specially
wound coils to get past the issues of speeding up a generator while
getting extra power back. Keep adding coils and refining till your COP
is higher. My video shows how Turion's coils work and how I got my
generator to produce extra power. FE is here.





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