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  #601  
Old 11-15-2017, 10:15 PM
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24 hrs of battery measurements

Thanks to John Bedini I found Aaron and his site.


https://youtu.be/_5KiF0HctCA

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  #602  
Old 11-16-2017, 02:15 AM
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Battery voltage

As of 8:00 O'clock putting me at the 29 hr mark voltage is 11.30v
and the amps are still right at 490ma. So a 30 point decline in 5 hrs.

If the curve continues (I don't think so) it won't reach 10.50 to trip
the alarm till tomorrow. Using our adjusted watt average of 6.35 w and
multiplying by the 29 hour run this far :

Let's lower that down to 6.30 watt average so then

6.30 X 29 = 182 WATT/HOURS from the 16ah 12v battery. Luc was
getting 70WATT/HOURS for a single new 5AH battery so using his
number I will need more than 3X that or 210WATT/HOUR because
this is a 16ah

Looks like i may reach that figure sometime this morning and I go to
bed around 3 am for the past 40 years. Luc's drain current was around
150ma and mine is over 3 X that at 500ma which is right in line with
the size of the battery. Looks like a C36 hr rate?

So my maximum draw within the C20 rate I can run 800ma.

I know that many of you think this is boring but we must see what our
battery can hold before we can go for the extra and really be sure
we are getting any.

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  #603  
Old 11-16-2017, 05:01 AM
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Battery Voltage Dropping

At 10:45pm the voltage dropped below 11v and is now reading 10.98v
staying close by so I hear the ringing go. It stinks of an acid
smell as it gives off it's last breath of energy. Got to go open the
door. I'll be back soon. If is goes to 1:00am or 3:00am I'll chime in
and show the figures.

Deja Vu the last time i ran figures like this that takes hard work
another site deleted them all and I have seen very few people on the
web doing this boring job, with the exception of Luc.

Can't wait to see the look on all the faces when i split the positive
with this same inverter and send some back to the front end with
a small boost converter that operates in the 97 percent efficient
range.

BRB
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  #604  
Old 11-16-2017, 09:22 AM
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Final Battery Baseline

Excuse me did i say 36hrs? No it wasn't it only ran 34 hrs at around
a 6.2watt average multiplied by 34 hrs or

6.2 X 34 = 210 watt/hours

The 24 hr mark was 3:00 pm and at 1:00 am I disconnected.

The battery is dead so I connected it up to the 3 battery function.
More video coming


https://youtu.be/bHDifuYTtNQ


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  #605  
Old 11-16-2017, 11:02 AM
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It takes a while to upload and process video, I'm going to bed.

It is going up now. I am camped out for the night.

The Split Positive to Inverter video start time out is 1:45am and it is
now just about 5:00 am now and after a little over 3 hours the
battery differential has dropped from 14.8v beginning to 13.12v now.
The two run batteries are at 12.38v and 12.34v each having a
12.60v sitting

The amps have dropped to 550ma and the charge battery has risen
from a 10.50v after resting 45 minutes is now 11.61v.

Looks like i will leave it run 8 more hrs till I get up so my battery
keeps going higher, then i'll start thinking about when to connect
the boost circuit at around 12.2v ? I think?
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  #606  
Old 11-16-2017, 06:51 PM
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https://youtu.be/tY46iaY0-5w








I let the circuit run over night so I could get some charge back into
my battery and the inverter is taking the controlled amount of current
that it is designed for just as it did in the first test and at 8:30am I
got up to use the restroom and here is what I saw.

The differential was 12.58v, batteries 1 & 2 were 12.24v & 12.22v
and battery 3 was only up to 11.91v so I went back to bed.

I had to get up at 11:30am today and checked my batteries. They
all read the same reading. Battery 1 &2 were 12.13v & 12.12v while
the differential voltage was 12.11v with the charging battery charging
away the reading was 12.13v the amp draw was the same at 500ma.

At the beginning of testing straight off the battery the amp draw
was always a little bit higher at 550ma and after the experiment or
run got going the amp draw pretty much stays the same at 500ma
in both setups.

I could give a rats rear end, i am a regular guy with a garden light running
a pulse between positives that is using new split positive hook up that
is suppose to increase my time for the light.

I just don't know, so I am trying it. I stopped the run because all
batteries are equal. Time to connect the booster. I need 68 hrs to
break even on my time in the garden lighting.
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  #607  
Old 11-16-2017, 09:24 PM
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The experiment is stopped and this is a copy of battery voltages
with an average current draw of 500ma going to the inverter.




Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Bedini View Post
It appears that this device is becoming over compcated, this is a simple
device . To answer the question about the 12 volt battery it is charged at 15 volts anything below that the battery is not charged. You must bring the battery
to the end of the charge curve. You need the reserve energy to get the correct
Amp Hrs. In the demnstration I gave with the three battery system the balancing of the voltage is important weither we use 3 volts or 24 volts that is
not important, it's the differnce potential energy to charge the third battery
You must chose the load very carefully for this process to work. The load must run and charge the third battery.
John

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
John,
I understand what you are saying, and I understand the original intent of the 3 battery system. It was to rotate the three batteries and all three would remain charged. If the load was right.

What I stumbled upon quite by accident was that if you have the right "bad" battery in the third position, something happens, almost as if a gate is opened, and you can run the setup WITHOUT rotating the batteries...battery three increases in voltage, and sometimes even the primaries (batteries one and two) increase in voltage, and the motor runs loads while a load is also across battery three. In over eight years of experimenting with this setup, I have seen that happen several times. The first time it happened, it lasted for several weeks and I thought I was going to be rich. I have seen it last for days. I have seen it last for hours. Then suddenly it stops happening and the primaries begin to discharge. On two occasions when it was "working" I disconnected all the connections on the batteries and discovered that battery 3 had flipped polarity. It is possible that this is what has happened EVERY time it has been "working".

Several other folks have replicated this setup WITHOUT rotating the batteries and seen the same thing, although from the reports I have gotten the best anyone has had was a run of a couple days before it quit working. What we HOPED to find was a consistent method of getting a battery in the third position to achieve whatever state it needs to be in for this "gate" to open. We have not been able to do that yet.

As I said, I think it is about getting battery 3 to flip its magnetic polarity, not its electrical polarity, although I believe it flips its electrical polarity at the same time. But just because it flips its electrical polarity doesn't mean it has flipped its magnetic polarity.

So at least what I have been working on is not the same as the original intent of the circuit you were demonstrating, because I was NOT rotating the batteries. I realize that may just confuse folks, but I wanted to be sure that the difference between the two experiments is clear, even though the circuit is exactly the same.

Dave
Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Bedini View Post
Dave, Matt,
I do understand what youíre both saying. Iím just trying to give a little history on the three battery system. The lead acid battery is much different in its makeup as if you study the battery you will find that three currents take place in that battery to move things along. I cannot get into the currents here as it would take forever to explain it. I also have seen batteries develop a semi magnetic fields; this experiment will show that the lead acid battery can be quickly charged with the use of powerful magnets in alignment across the plates. I think you guys are doing great work and Iím not here to interfere with your progress. Peter told me about this and I said I would go look and read everything.
At a different point in time I will discuss what the coil is and how quantum mechanics plays an important part in all of this and how you get the extra energy out of the system. I did write a paper for University of Edinburgh along with Dave Clemons that explained the way the coil works in the system as an energy pump and how the SSG in attraction mode works. This is why I said, the Back EMF is always lower than the battery voltage. If you look at the coil in space it can be viewed with vectors all pointing in but not coupled to form energy. As the coil is pulsed compression and decompression takes place these vectors get sucked in through the Bloch Wall while it is in compression mode forming magnetic poles, North and South. This was never released to the public as it would drive everybody nuts. The Engineers at the school answered me with; we never looked at it this way. But the analyses were correct and explained why some machines work better in different areas of this God forsaken planet. Yes Gravity plays an important part in all of this. Itís only a matter of time when you will tap that Gravity wave for energy as that is where my experiments have led me in my work. I know you will read this many times to understand what I have just said and you all know the meaning of this if you do it. If we take this further you now have discovered the answer to the TPU. Some say that the Shaman resonance is responsible for this but the energy is driven by gravity that permeates everything throughout space itís just a matter how itís taped for energy. Solid state devices detect this wave if arranged correctly and then the TPU becomes not complicated anymore with windings and high frequencyís oscillators that is what powered Teslaís car, the box with many vacuum tubes, so again the term Free Energy is wrong as you must put some form of energy in to start the process of conversion and hope you get more out.
Just remember that the energy cannot be destroyed it can only be converted into another form, for example the last version of the SSG. The unit converts the spikes and then filters it to be used with a Linear Amplifier Regulator. Just something to think about, so keep up your good work at least your group is getting somewhere here with this type of system. Good work all. Iím honored that you all would mention my early work, so thank you all.
John Bedini
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  #608  
Old 11-17-2017, 09:21 AM
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Got it running and balanced out for my first try.

Starting at 2:00am and counting. My differential is 12.55v


It's 4:00am and my diff. is 12.75v the 2 runs are 12.18v and the
charge battery is 11.70v at 2:00am the charge batt was 11.85v
so it looks like divergence or a greater potential difference

https://youtu.be/a48H03Y9LmE

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  #609  
Old 11-17-2017, 08:25 PM
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I got up at 1:30pm the fuse had popped again so I checked the
voltages. A1 &B2 were 11.86 and 11.84 the charge went way up
due to no power being sent back to the front end at 12.12 all
these voltages while the circuit runs.

I tried the booster again with 2 separate battery banks and is works
normal, it seems non isolated converters will not work with this
inverter. Learning the hard way.
back and forth unstable, finally I ran it again with a 70,000uf cap
across the boosters source battery or C3 to see if that might help
and I was able to adjust it way better, then it just popped.

Looks like I'll have to rotate the batteries sometime down the road
unless my other 2 converters come in time in the mail.

Maybe a blocking cap could allow the use of a non- isolated booster?

After running the little booster to charge up the front end it popped
after 20 minute but while my battery C3 was under a load and being
charged the voltages were 11.76v again the run batteries were 12.02v
and 12.04v during operation at this time.

The only other time I have used a boost converter was an isolated one
and I had not trouble with stability.

The inverter does not like my 900 watt common ground booster so
it looks like for switchmode inverter circuitry the isolation is a must


It is 6:30pm the run batteries are 11.74v and 11.76v the charge is
11.81v and the diff is 11.51v More video soon.
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  #610  
Old 11-18-2017, 02:42 AM
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It doesn't look good. Going south well before time.

All of my goofing around burning power and using a joule thief at
poor efficiencies and burning out one booster, I fear has doomed
my run. But I hope everyone is getting the idea on how to hook
one of these up if they get the right circuits. The right tuning
might make for a better test.

Thus far i have little control.

Can't give up tho it is to much fun.

I had a digital booster that gave me perfect control but these same
tests go south all about the same, however i have never documented
the exact data points.

It is 8:30pm

The differential is maintaining right at 11.44v while the other readings
decrease. A1 & B2 are 11.52 and 11.54 the charger has raised B2 two
data points at the expense of 550ma at 11.71v on the charge battery.


https://youtu.be/tZuF7yZ9Vvs




It's 9:30pm run batteries 11.48v & 11.51v boost circuit raising B2 three
data points. Diff is 11.39v and the charge battery 11.66v





It is 12:30am Sat morning

A1 & B2 11.28v & 11.35V with a diff of 11.18v and the charging C3 11.51v

It's almost 2:00am and I just swapped out the mickey mouse joule thief
one one of my smallest 4 channel SSSG bedini oscillators that gives me
more Horse power up to 20 watts. I is running at a full amp on the input
off the 11.45v Charge C3 battery then boosting to (IN GENMODE) to 23v
maybe 400ma is my guess after the translation has always been that
amount.

This drives the Charge (C3) battery down and pushes up the run side
to achieve a greater differential. My diff. was down to 11.04v and I did
not like that. I am starting to become aware more of the objective.

Keep the run side up high and the charge side down at a low resistance
to charge. Keep the run side maybe up to 25 or 26 volts by using the
booster that drives the charge battery down to a low potential.

For the moment 9 watts going back to the front end in hopes of catching
up. I should have been doing this all along but this is how you learn.

Next time around should be better.

it's now 4:30am the run batteries 11.04 & 11.20v with the diff at 11.16v
charge batteries 11.12v. The SSSG osc is barely keeping the nose of
this ship up, hopefully it will still keep from crashing over night.


At 7:30am this morning I was up checking the setup.

Batteries A1 & B2 were 8.5v & 9.4v the diff was 11.51v and charge 6.85v
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  #611  
Old 11-18-2017, 10:58 PM
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Experimental failure

SEE THE GRAPH UPDATE BELOW

With all the burnouts and bad tuning i learned what not to do.

I knew I didn't have the right stuff but had to give this a try for
me and others who think it was worth a shot. As can be seen my
run burnt power right and left and didn't even get close to 68hrs.

But what surprised me was that I could run batteries down so low and
still have 11.51v hitting the inverter. I should have known but I just
didn't think about it til it happened.

So that would mean, say I was living in a camper (been there) all by
my self and the sun had not come up for several days to charge my
3 dead 110ah batteries that choked the inverter at 10.5v day before
yesterday and I wanted to charge my laptop.

Just hook those 3 batteries up in split positive formation and you might
get another day out of them. Of course you might slaughter your
batteries unless you changed over to ALUM.

Anyway that is not the experiment. I was never told by Dave or Desa or
anyone else to make this test, I was told not to do it this way. Got
try it anyway.

A special thx to everyone who has come before me to show test results
you guys are awesome, even if you do talk to much.







It is 8:30pm

The differential is maintaining right at 11.44v while the other readings
decrease. A1 & B2 are 11.52 and 11.54 the charger has raised B2 two
data points at the expense of 550ma at 11.71v on the charge battery.


https://youtu.be/tZuF7yZ9Vvs




It's 9:30pm run batteries 11.48v & 11.51v boost circuit raising B2 three
data points. Diff is 11.39v and the charge battery 11.66v





It is 12:30am Sat morning

A1 & B2 11.28v & 11.35V with a diff of 11.18v and the charging C3 11.51v

It's almost 2:00am and I just swapped out the mickey mouse joule thief
one one of my smallest 4 channel SSSG bedini oscillators that gives me
more Horse power up to 20 watts. I is running at a full amp on the input
off the 11.45v Charge C3 battery then boosting to (IN GENMODE) to 23v
maybe 400ma is my guess after the translation has always been that
amount.

This drives the Charge (C3) battery down and pushes up the run side
to achieve a greater differential. My diff. was down to 11.04v and I did
not like that. I am starting to become aware more of the objective.

Keep the run side up high and the charge side down at a low resistance
to charge. Keep the run side maybe up to 25 or 26 volts by using the
booster that drives the charge battery down to a low potential.

For the moment 9 watts going back to the front end in hopes of catching
up. I should have been doing this all along but this is how you learn.

Next time around should be better.

it's now 4:30am the run batteries 11.04 & 11.20v with the diff at 11.16v
charge batteries 11.12v. The SSSG osc is barely keeping the nose of
this ship up, hopefully it will still keep from crashing over night.


At 7:30am this morning I was up checking the setup.

Batteries A1 & B2 were 8.5v & 9.4v the diff was 11.51v and charge 6.85v
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  #612  
Old 11-19-2017, 11:22 AM
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NEW TEST RUNNING

4:30am this setup on Sunday morning, good night.

Run batteries 12.55v and 12.53v charge battery is charging 10.63v
and the diff is dead on 14.50v and I had to take some out of the run
batteries to get the diff below 15v. The inverter would not start up
and run on 15v so 14.5 is holding for the longest time .

The current is exactly the same every time I run this small inverter
at 550ma and the little joule thief is my only boost pump and is running
at 500ma.

It is a balanced system for the moment and seems to be hanging in
one spot forever. Let's hope so. The dead batteries tied together in
parallel are making for a much much lower resistance to the on coming
charge and after sitting on these meters for days I can tell a there is a
huge change.



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Old 11-19-2017, 08:26 PM
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Here is pretty much what DESA said he was doing, tho I can't find
his posts anymore. Seems like with 2 boosters the losses would double.
DESA did not use an inverter,he used the mod mtr







DESA WROTE: Gift that keeps giving.
I run the setup today for close to one hour. I had no need to run it longer because answer was there plain and simple. My total loss after batteries rested was .2 v on series and I was higher than start on batterie 3. In attachment you can see all that you need to do math, plain and simple. I attached the DC generator that in open voltage runs at 235vdc. As loaded it run 110 vac CFL 20w lighting to full potential at 142vdc. In this test I attempted to replace resistive load with another Matt's modified motor it was unloade and shaft power don't forget is now free for taking also. It run at battery 3 voltage of 15.1 VDC at 1.6 A. Recirculating power was 2.2A and potential difference was 3.3 v, Sufficient to hold all in balance. To my surprise variable resistor had been reduced but it has more place to give to be eliminated compleatly. As I loade second modified motor the first one increases in speed accordingly. Looking at this all together I could easily see the two motors running in same direction on same shaft with the radial flux generator in between. Second motor running with additional boost converter feeding battery 2. Load of the generator would eliminate variable resistor and any drop in speed of motor one would be self regulating boosted by motor 2. Naw please all of you with know how let me know what you think.
As it is set now if I only recuperate CFL 20W this is in the money. Please let me know if my measurments or asumptions is wrong.
David.-image-jpg




Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
When I had my original setup running, I was new enough to this stuff that I didn't know how to test it. My friend, who is an electrical engineer, told me the only acceptable test he would believe is if I put a kilowatt meter on the inverter hooked up to battery three and ran loads on battery three to measure how much actual power came out of the system, and could show more power coming out than was present in the two primary batteries, but this was impossible to do. The reason is, when you have a load hooked up and are running it, the kilowatt meter is continuously counting how many watts of power are being consumed, but the instant the power to the inverter is cut off for even a split second, that reading instantly goes blank, so you have to be watching the meter at that EXACT second. After running for two full days and losing several readings because I was trying to figure out how MUCH of a load I could put on the inverter without drawing the battery so far down that the inverter kicked off, I gave up on this. I kept drawing too much and the inverter would kick off and I would lose my reading. I was incredibly frustrated....mostly because I was running up against a deadline of writing a big check if this thing was real. Now they have meters that hold the last reading in memory. I didn't have one of those.

I then moved to a process where I would charge a 33 amp hour battery in parallel with battery three. I would charge it up until the volt meter showed between 13 and 14 volts (I checked it occasionally to see where the power level was, and anytime it was over 13 volts I would disconnect it and use it). I would then run two auto headlights off the battery until they went out, then connect it to the setup again and recharge it. I did this continuously for seven straight days, because THAT'S all the time I had before I was to meet with the patent attorney in California to discuss the possibility of a patent. I don't know how many times I ran that battery down and recharged it during that seven day period, but I was in that room day and night. I slept on a cot next to the thing and would wake up every couple hours to check it. Since I was going to have to write a check for $5,000.00 to the attorney, I wanted to be damn sure the thing was doing what I THOUGHT it was doing. I was using three 18 amp hour AGM batteries on that setup. Only TWO of them held a charge. so that's only 36 amp hours of power. And I was charging a 33 amp hour battery to full charge. Yet those two auto headlights ran over and over and over again for all seven days before I took the setup apart to take it to California. How many times would YOU have to recharge that 33 amp hour battery off the setup before you were convinced? I know I was doing it several times a day.

As to the attorney, I can give you his name and number if you are interested. I KNOW he will remember me because he told me I was the first person EVER to bring a working "free energy" system into his office to demonstrate it for him. We only ran it for a few minutes because the motor is so loud, but we DID run it. And I did write the man a non-refundable check for $5,000.00. When the thing quit working I was pretty sick to my stomach over that check I had written. By that time, I was back in Arizona. I wrote him a letter of explanation and requested that he refund any unused portion of the fee. He didn't have to, but the guy sent me back (I think it was) $3,000.00 (might have been $2,000.00) even though he had already begun the process of searching for conflicting patents.

So if you want to call and check out whether at least THAT part of my story is true, you can. I don't remember his name, but my wife knows him (as she is in intellectual property law) and she will remember. In fact, she sent me his info a couple weeks ago and I can probably search my e-mail and find it. One way or another, I will get it to you if you are interested. I would certainly recommend the guy after the way he worked with me, that's for sure.

I have had the system working since then too. On several occasions now. I haven't let it run for long periods of time, and I guess the best thing I could do is the next time it is up and running, record two solid hours of video with my big video camera of it running loads so everyone can see it run for two hours continuously until the tape runs out; run devices requiring several hundred watts of power usage during that time, and still charging the primaries.

I texted my wife earlier as to the attorney's name, and she just responded on my phone. It is:
Amir Raubvogel
voice:
fax:
amir@raubvogel.com
Currently:
Co-chair of Patent Group at Palo Alto Area Bar Association (PAABA)
Patent Attorney at Raubvogel Law Office
Past:
Patent Attorney at Fenwick & West LLP
Software Engineer at Digital Pictures, Inc.
Patent Attorney at Fenwick & West LLP
Education:
Yale Law School
University of Toronto

This thing is for real. We just need, as Matt said, some folks to get off their butts and help us figure it out....or you can do nothing....

Once upon a time, there was a little red hen who lived on a farm . She was friends with a lazy dog , a sleepy cat , and a noisy yellow duck .

One day the little red hen found some seeds on the ground. The little red hen had an idea. She would plant the seeds .
The little red hen asked her friends, "Who will help me plant the seeds ?"

"Not I," barked the lazy dog .
"Not I," purred the sleepy cat .
"Not I," quacked the noisy yellow duck .

"Then I will," said the little red hen . So the little red hen planted the seeds all by herself.

When the seeds had grown, the little red hen asked her friends, "Who will help me cut the wheat ?"
"Not I," barked the lazy dog .
"Not I," purred the sleepy cat .
"Not I," quacked the noisy yellow duck .

"Then I will," said the little red hen . So the little red hen cut the wheat all by herself.

When all the wheat was cut, the little red hen asked her friends, "Who will help me take the wheat to the mill to be ground into flour ?"
"Not I," barked the lazy dog .
"Not I," purred the sleepy cat .
"Not I," quacked the noisy yellow duck .

"Then I will," said the little red hen . So the little red hen brought the wheat to the mill all by herself, ground the wheat into flour , and carried the heavy sack of flour back to the farm .

The tired little red hen asked her friends, "Who will help me bake the bread ?"
"Not I," barked the lazy dog .
"Not I," purred the sleepy cat .
"Not I," quacked the noisy yellow duck .

"Then I will," said the little red hen . So the little red hen baked the bread all by herself.

When the bread was finished, the tired little red hen asked her friends, "Who will help me eat the bread ?"
"I will," barked the lazy dog .
"I will," purred the sleepy cat .
"I will," quacked the noisy yellow duck .

"No!" said the little red hen . "I will." And the little red hen ate the bread ALL BY HERSELF.

Get the picture?

Dave....Ye old Teller of Fables
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Old 11-21-2017, 04:27 AM
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The post this was taken from is 8 years old or older. Please do NOT contact Amir at this time. He's a busy man!!!
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Old 11-21-2017, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Turion View Post
The post this was taken from is 8 years old or older. Please do NOT contact Amir at this time. He's a busy man!!!

I reposted this for several reasons from 2012? It is in the 3 battery
thread and shows the level of seriousness about what you have invented.

I am sure if others wanted to patent their own devices they might not
want to go to a California Lawyer but maybe go where they can set
down in person and talk.

The other reason is that it shows how hard you were working on things
and how far you have come since then. What caught my eye was your
work with the inverters instead of the motors.

I am still hunting down posts like this from 2012 or before if I can find
anything on inverters running in place of the mod mtr. I think it important
that people realize that an inverter can give the experimenter great
results, not like my recent trial runs.

I didn't realize the significance of having the exact voltages as show til
this week. I mean charge both ends? It didn't seem real so i went looking
for more posts. I don't think anyone here will be patenting until they can
learn how it works first.

But it is nice to know someone can get extra and is trying to get an
invention thru the law offices. 5 years is a long time for a lawyer who
may be thinking of retiring by now.


PS I REMOVED THE NUMBERS
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Old 11-21-2017, 08:24 PM
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Playing Catch up

3 BATTERY CHRONICLES


I may not understand it all yet but these are very interesting.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
You don't have to worry about Matt's motor running hot unless you are stacking up some batteries in position one and two. He is running it at 120 volts, not 12, so at that high voltage you have to make sure the voltage the motor produces has somewhere to go QUICKLY or it will back up in the wiring and overheat the motor. A battery won't absorb it fast enough, so you need to use some caps in parallel. If you are just running the 3BGS setup you should be fine. Matt and I and some others are exploring some limits with this setup and with this modified motor, so we are doing some things that call for some extra circuits. If they prove out, you'll read about them here.


Dave
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
The motor has too turn clockwise as you face the shaft end. If it isn't your not going to get anything out of it.
Remember it moves slow with low voltage. Thats for reason, so you can see what your doing. It will speed up with higher voltages but you have to have a recovery system in place or you'll burn up.
I had mine running on 140 +- volt at 19000 rpms. No heat and no spark. No consumption...

Be careful

Matt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
wantomake,
Thanks for posting that video. Pretty cool.

Yeah, the goal is to figure out how to get battery 3 to hold at that point where the energy comes flooding into it. The very first setup I ever had did that and I didn't have any idea how lucky I was. I ran every kind of load you could imagine. Lights, drills, my shop vac, a 12 volt car vacuum, fans, and all sorts of small motors. You could try running your motor at the same time and adding small loads to the motor. You could run another motor shaft coupled as a generator and rectify the output to run 12 volt devices. If you can get them to balance with each other, the voltage on battery three will remain steady.

OR you could just leave it alone and let it continue to go up and down like it is doing. It may do that FOREVER, and that would surely convince some folks (when the thing is still powering those lights in a few days) that there is somethng to this thing.

https://pesn.com/archive/2013/01/14/9602264_Bowling_Effect--Two_good_and_one_bad_battery_power_a_motor_while_r echarging/index.html




Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
My wife always tells me that the more "wrong" I am about something, the louder I talk, as if the volume of my voice will convince her even though I KNOW I'm wrong. And she is right. We laugh about it all the time. So it is with the people spouting misinformation. They try to roll over us with the volume and the quantity. I would rather listen to the quality of the words.

I couldn't sleep this morning so as I made the wife coffee, I was pondering the 3BGS and thought I would share something. I have repeated the story many times of how, when my original device "came to life" after 15 minutes, I immediately put a meter on battery three. What I saw was that it would read 24 volts, go slowly down to 18 IN JUST A MATTER OF MINUTES, at which point the motor would start, and it would continue to run as the voltage continued to drop down to around 8 or 9 volts, at which point the motor would shut off. The voltage would immediately jump to 24 volts and the process would repeat over and over. I have said before that I thought this meter was reading not the voltage IN battery 3, but because of the way the setup is wired, it was reading the POTENTIAL DIFFERENCE between battery 3 and the two primaries wired in series.

Think about that for a moment. When the meter is reading 24 volts, it means battery 3 is basically DEAD. Within minutes the meter drops to 18 volts, which means there is about 6 volts in battery 3, and this is enough to complete the circuit and provide the power for the motor to run so it starts up. The voltage in battery 3 continues to climb which makes the reading on the meter go down, and when it gets to 8 or 9 volts, the POTENTIAL DIFFERENCE has now dropped to 6 volts, which is not enough to run the motor and it shuts off. The voltage immediately jumps to 24 volts, and the cycle repeats.

What does this tell us about battery 3 if my theory is correct?

1. First, the original battery 3 would NOT hold a charge.
2. The system is capable of putting a FULL charge into the battery in a matter of minutes. I have only told a few folks the following story because it sounds too unbelievable, but I took this setup (when it was working perfectly) out to my dad's house. He is off the grid on a solar system and has a huge battery bank. That battery bank was way down when I arrived early in the morning, and we hooked in the 3BGS battery 3 in parallel with his battery bank. It charged his entire bank in a matter of minutes, something that would have taken HOURS to do with his solar setup.
3. The minute the motor quit, the voltage on battery 3 dropped like a rock. Or the meter would not immediately have read 24 volts again.
4. The battery obviously TOOK a charge, because that potential difference dropped to 18 and then down to 8 or 9 volts. (Which would mean battery 3 was at a charge of 14 or 15 volts, if my theory is correct.)

I think this gives us important information about what battery 3 needs to be capable of doing in order for us to find a substitute for it. Unfortunately, I agree with Duncan, that finding a perfect battery three is a matter of luck. We could try forever, and then when you get one, the system will fix it.

Dave
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
OK, as to a precis for new folks.

The setup is exactly what it has always been. Connect two good batteries in series and then reverse the third "bad" battery and connect it. Depending on which end of the series batteries you connect the bad third battery to, you either have two positives left to connect your motor to, or two negatives. My original motor was connected between the two positives, but I have had lots of success connecting a brushed dc motor between the two negatives. We're not sure it makes a difference. But it DOES make a difference which direction your motor rotates. Switch the wires on the motor and you will see it runs faster one way over the other.

Things we do know.
1. Increasing the resistance between the poles of the bad battery lengthens the run times before the primaries began to discharge.
A. Connecting large resistors between the poles of the primaries seems to help accomplish this.
B. Changes in the electrolyte can accomplish this.
C. Drying out the battery somewhat can accomplish this
2. A battery that WON'T hold a charge is the very best battery you can use in the 3rd position.Most batteries will accept a charge, but some, for whatever reason, won't hold it. These work the best.

3. You can get many of the same effects we get with a bad battery by using a capacitor in the third position, but you will almost always lose voltage in your primaries.

4. If you do short runs and pulse the motor, the primaries can completely recover and in some cases gain voltage.

5. With some setups the primaries gain voltage.

6. With some setups the batteries ice up or turn cold.

7. A dc motor or a pulse motor output more voltage than is input in the 3BGS configuration.

8. All three batteries should be the same kind, i.e. flooded lead acid or AGM.

9. The more you can figure out ways to PULSE the system the longer you can go without primaries discharging.

10. When you use a standard motor and you get the system in the zone ( balanced loads---see post #1) the more torque it has.

If you want tech aspects of what people have seen on their scopes and meters, you will have to read the posts. I'm not going back through all these pages to spoon feed anybody either. It is posted. It is here. If you care enough you will find it. You will read LOTS of examples of folks who have seen successes with this. And some folks who have seen nothing because they didn't have the right bad battery, which I have always said is the "key."

David
Now i think instead of a bad battery that is slightly shorted and draining
out power all of the time a small load works as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
.............this thing can be hell on inverters. I have burnt up some expensive ones! Having said that, my original setup did use an inverter. I was brand new to this stuff, so I took no real measurements whatsoever. I balanced the loads on the inverter by torquing down on a pulley arrangement I had connected to the motor which made it harder for the motor to turn. This was hard on the rubber belt. I ran a shop vac, a lamp and an electric drill all at the same time, but how many watts or amps that pulled, I could't tell you. I ran these devices and several others (there were only three plugs on the inverter) for most of a day and for several days in a row and the primaries went up so high in voltage(one of those days...17 or 18 volts) that we got scared and ran out of the room.

On another occasion I also connected the thing to my dad's bank of 6 volt (wired in pairs for 12 volts, and then wired in series) battery bank which was dead and charged the entire bank in less than a half hour.

Those are examples of the power this thing puts out.

That was then, and this is now. Here at the house I have a light board with a row of bulbs that are AC, and a row of bulbs that are DC all connected to switches. I have run a motor attached to the shaft of the Razor Scooter motor as generator through a full wave bridge to the DC bulbs, and connected an inverter to battery 3 to run the AC bulbs. AT times I have had 65 watts on the AC side balanced with 150 watts on the DC side for quite a while. There HAVE been times when the AC side was up over 300 watts, but that was hard to balance and it would not run long before the inverter shut it off. That still really doesn't give you any direct measurement of what the setup was putting out, but on these occasions the primary batteries either went up in voltage slightly, or went down slightly but regained their original charge (or higher) after resting.

Dave
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Old 11-22-2017, 09:48 PM
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The new $8 meters are in and are awesome devices. Here is how
you connect them.


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Old 11-23-2017, 01:13 AM
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Boost Converter Coming Soon





I have the watt meters, I don't have any boost converters so i hit
the button again and will try these. Since I am not working with the mod mtr
I need a circuit that will stop and not go over 14.8vdc which any
higher will smoke your inverter. You need to drive the inverter at a specific
voltage.

The 3 battery split positive differential voltages go up and down on their
own starting at 15.2v down to where the inverter fails. The inverter can
take 14.50v and you need 2volts more than what is in the battery so if
you are starting with a dead battery around 12v it will hit 12.5v soon,
you will be about right.

The second booster is recommended for the motor experiment.

I will verify the correct waveform needed when running this setup.
However just any booster and just any inverter may not work at all.

I hope all goes well for each of you. If you are a teenager you will be able
to make these tests.









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Old 11-23-2017, 09:09 AM
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Modified motor and 3 battery generating systems wave shape
with spike. So if you are not using the mtr but instead an inverter it
has been suggested you may want to look for these actions on a
scope (if you have one) when making small adjustments on your boost
converter. Otherwise make fine adjustments and wait to see if voltages
increase on either battery pack or both.






Quote:
The scalar is not the same as a transient. Transients are
formed from particle compression around the magnetic field. So.. the
mag field inflates out and around the coil. All the particles around
that coil are attracted to the field and they compress each other
into a dense mass. Both field expanding and the particle racing in.
This mass then collapses following the field into the coil and cutting
flux of coil, resulting in charge.

A scalar is caused from compression in iron not in the environment.
Think about the motor. It has coils of the same polarity pointing in
opposite direction. Every time any of the coils are fired you get an
opposing force. The commutator runs out before anything can get
released (unless you use the timing circuit). Now we have the
energy stored in the iron. Once the commutator opens back up
the power in the coils goes opposite. This pushes the stored
energy in the iron out in every direction.

The energy coming out has no polarity. It has No time factor and
what you are able to see on the scope has no current. It grows
through resistance (Not a resistor though).
And you cannot filter it in half. But caps love them.
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Old 11-25-2017, 11:33 AM
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Setting up batteries for the next split positive runs.

https://youtu.be/HkzGn9iPNR4

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Old 11-26-2017, 02:45 AM
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Differential Loading

Split Positive Differential Loading in the C/20 rate.

I am learning the light metering functions on the camera, also a new
stand to get the picture more clear plus using the class room HQ setting
then putting it to a video cruncher to lower upload time. I have won this
war as of today, I apologize for some of my past recent video quality.

This shows the basic differential voltages and what happens when you
do it wrong as well as doing it correctly. These batteries run $1200 dollars
for what you see on the desk. The rest of the circuitry is popcorn peanut.






https://youtu.be/8FSBHXtXkAE









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Old 11-26-2017, 09:11 AM
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Hi Bro
Good to see you are advancing with Dave's and Matt's setup. I thought you had done that ages ago.
Just want to tell you that if you keep connecting batteries in parallel this way in the long term you are going to destroy the one(s) that is actually connected. You have to draw current evenly from all parallels. So all the wires should have the same length and thickness of course. For four batteries setup in parallel here is the best setup.
Attached Images
File Type: png Screenshot_2016-01-17-15-35-19.png (119.8 KB, 24 views)
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Old 11-26-2017, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liber63 View Post
Hi Bro
Good to see you are advancing with Dave's and Matt's setup. I thought you had done that ages ago.
Just want to tell you that if you keep connecting batteries in parallel this way in the long term you are going to destroy the one(s) that is actually connected. You have to draw current evenly from all parallels. So all the wires should have the same length and thickness of course. For four batteries setup in parallel here is the best setup.
Thanks again Liberal63

I think I hear this somewhere and I'll keep it in mind if I decide to use
them at higher amp rates. Each battery can do short runs of 20 amps. The
manufacturer states that each battery has a low internal resistance
making it possible to run 10 amps without much heating.

My experiment only takes 180ma to run and each row of 4 parallel batteries
is capable of 40A-80A however if a person sticks to the C/20 rating with
each battery a 16ah this would be 16 X 4 =64ah / 20hrs.

64ah divided by 20 hours = 64,000 divided by 20 = 3200ma

In most of the applications that a regular guy would use these batteries
if often based on how much money one has. these 12 batteries cost
over $100 a piece making this test bed $1200 just for the lead packs.

So this means that each battery can only deliver 800ma each hr over a
20hr period for a true C/20 rate. Any more of an amp draw starts to
cause small amounts of heating on the lead plate and this lowers the
batteries ability to get back what was put in it.

Even a tail light on a car pulls over 1 amp at 12volts.

Each bus bar that carries the current from one battery to the next one
is capable of 200 amps each. It would be like driving a gokart on a 200 lane hwy at 800ma.
What you are seeing is how commercial installations
connect their hundred thousand dollar back up packs and is an excepted
standard.

No I have never done this experiment using an invert with the right
booster and new batteries. Stay tuned, I have not completed this
experiment yet.

The 100 watt light bulb test is only to show battery voltages and let
the viewers see the batteries capability at C/7 rates and is only for
a few seconds.



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Old 11-27-2017, 09:43 PM
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Modified Pulse Motor Battery Conditioning

My battery pack is being hit with special pulses and sharp spikes.
I ran down the charging pack to 10.40v and after 11hr it has charged up
some.

The run packs seem to just hang in one spot forever and when i connect
a resistive load load of 900ma at 12.90v (Differential run volts) the run
pack go down much quicker. That is a first step and I for one am glad
I found you guys.

Yes i have heard all of the reverb, just regular guys who are finally
showing us your real personality. That is what I am looking for, not the
phony put on stuff

Talk to me fella's





https://youtu.be/HT09vkfJQc4



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Old 11-28-2017, 01:30 AM
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Okay here is the latest. Numeral Uno I am not going to try and prove
anything, plain and simple when I disconnect the Mod Mtr and connect
other loads the voltage on the run pack begins a more rapid descent.

This experiment is the beginners steps to conditioning batteries and to
see if I can get a lot of charge up's for the charge pack off the initial
charge sitting on the run pack. After over 15hrs the run pack is 24.8v
and the charge pack is 12.22v

I can hook up a scope to tweak the back plate yet it makes no difference
to the mod mtr abilities. Once I get the 4 boosters in the mail the fun
begins. What it looks like to me is that I am going to end up with a
charging station that will take weeks to go down. That is a bunch better
than a few days.

The old load figures were 6.2w and each battery held 210wh so go
do the math. Now I am running 11.6w load.

Each battery

210wh X 4 = 840 wh per 12v section which is 4 times the capacity
but loading double (Approx) so run times should be double from a
conventional baseline test.
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Old 11-28-2017, 07:57 AM
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People do not realize that the power of life and death is in their
tongues and once you have killed people with words you can not
fix the broken lines. All they can do is break it again.

Each exchange shows many things, the point of no return is here for
some. On the other hand we can not stop learning because of a few
sore azz devils are all upset

The "Splitting the Positive" thread is an animal, all to itself, with none
other than yours truly as guide. The modified motor is an energizer for
batteries leaving us with a hopeful COP of 1 which is great when you
understand that you are getting a 25 percent additional mechanical
energy out. Sound familiar? Yup that is because John Bedini led the
way with this tech since the 70's using two positive poles to charge
his batteries.

In this version of an energizer made with an off the shelf scooter frame
having 2 north poles (sound familiar) is run between positive battery
poles and charging at the same time. This is the next step in the evolution
of using recirculated energy.

Now to confirm the COP value of the basic mod mtr running between
positives. This is a very important first step that may seem insignificant
to some that if you miss, may not be able to grasp the next steps that
will lead to COP 3 and 4 systems and on up.

Remember what John bedini's best energizers did, they ran off of run
batteries that the motor kept charging in the back stroke of spikes
as the charging batteries went right up. COP 1





https://youtu.be/EVk19xje7Xs


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Old 11-28-2017, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post
[B]
The modified motor is an energizer for
batteries leaving us with a hopeful COP of 1 which is great when you
understand that you are getting a 25 percent additional mechanical
energy out
.

Hello Bro

I'm a beginner in this area. Just a question. ( @ COP 1) You say; you are getting a 25 percent
additional mechanical energy out
I can't understand more than that you only have these 25 percent additional mechanical energy out in the form of delivered internal motor losses, heat to the bearings and slipring friction loss when the motor is spinning. Or do you, can you?, load the motor shaft with something also a generator, or a saw e.g. an still have a COP=1 situation to the batterys?

Regards / Arne
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Old 11-28-2017, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seaad View Post
Hello Bro

I'm a beginner in this area. Just a question. ( @ COP 1) You say; you are getting a 25 percent[/SIZE] additional mechanical energy out
I can't understand more than that you only have these 25 percent additional mechanical energy out in the form of delivered internal motor losses, heat to the bearings and slipring friction loss when the motor is spinning. Or do you, can you?, load the motor shaft with something also a generator, or a saw e.g. an still have a COP=1 situation to the batterys?

Regards / Arne
Hi Arne

I am in the process of verifying MY MOD MTR ENERGIZER this means I
have not collected all of the data for mine. Mine is different from every
one else's because i used what I had on hand, 20awg wire.

My bearings need replaced also but it runs slow and there is no heat.
John Bedini said that his energizer can give a COP of 1 and still have
20 some percent mechanical left over. This fact was repeated in the
3 battery thread as well as the basic free energy device thread.

The Mod Mtr is an energizer and all by itself does many great things to
a battery, plus i for one would never built a 12 pole monopole motor but
this little guy I would. He got me on that one. The Mod Mtr is factory
precision tolerance very compact. It cleans plates well, just for openers.

Lets face it, one of the biggest problems with modern day systems using
a battery is that it runs down on loads til the sulfation creeps up the
plates and chokes off the reservoir. This is happening ever single
micro-second and that process does not take a long period of time.

Thanks for commenting SEAAD it is guys like you with an open mind that
keep me trying to share what i have learned and what my experiment
is teaching.

For example:

Today after more than 14 hrs of running my little LED light bulb the
voltages read as follows:

Under load 11.67v

No load after 10 min resting =11.75v

160wh of usage so far.

The pack I am getting energy out of when i run the ModMtr is sitting
at 25.1v and very soon will be back generating. My boosters are not here
and with Xmas on the way they may never come even tho I ordered
them weeks ago.

Also for the attentive adepts: Notation:

These batteries are in need of more cycles to get them peculating with
perfection, you guys know what I am talking about. You are the ones
who sat on a meter like a hen waiting for the chicken to hatch.

Forget the idea of Mikey giving up.

I know batteries of all kinds well and these stinky plates are giving off
that crusty dull lead odor with the first cycles and not the fresh smell
like well conditioned batteries have.

The data is coming in and I'll probably do a short video when i shift into
generating again. BRB


PS Never mind that man behind the curtain trying to tell you that you
can't think for yourselves, how insulting, as if you can't think on your
own.

There is only DO!!

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Old 11-28-2017, 09:07 PM
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Let me get back to the generating systems

Here is a chart for a 12v battery percent charged.



What i am learning is that a 12v battery not fully charged does not
always give 100% of the read voltage but if you wait 30 minutes
after you connect the loads then read the voltage, you may have
a better reading.

Using this approach my pack under load the first 30 min dropped to
12.08 volts, this is close to a half of a battery and now after 14 plus
hrs of runtime still have 30% left.

Running figures it looks like we will get very close to the 400 plus watt
hours i had thought should be available on this first discharge. Once
the battery pack is really dead (Very bad for lead batteries) I can go
back to generating with greater charging ability due to the increased
differential required.



My old 1970's block transformer trickle charger open voltage reads
19vdc and under load charging at 2 amps then quickly to 1.5amps
is holding a higher potential over the battery plates to get energy
to move, somewhere around 14volts.

It has been stated that you need to hold a potential difference of
2.5v over the battery voltage. This number is 14.5vdc for efficient
charging to take place and not keep batteries so low of a charge
they get ruined.

This is why a booster is the next step in the experiment. Taking batteries
down low is not always bad as long as you don't leave them discharged.
Reverse chaging is part of battery maintenance and first requires that a
battery is discharged below 1v.

If you are doing experiments with batteries that can not sustain a reverse
charging cycling without failing then your experimental data my become
inaccurate due to internal shifts accompanied with degraded plates.

Or it may be that you do not have true deep cycles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LX_o3hl2Dv4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LzcGXHjpdM





Lifepo4 batteries at 3.2v coupled with some supercaps seems like a
great alternative for those who already have bikes running on these.



PS Never mind that man behind the curtain telling you to kneel in
his presence, he must build new walls to protect his empire.
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Old 11-29-2017, 12:57 AM
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BroMikey BroMikey is online now
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By the numbers



The discharging under a load voltage is 11.51v which after disconnecting
from the load read 11.57v. This means we have used up 30% of the 50%
we started with now have 20% to burn.

The watt hours are 205 after 18hrs of discharge time. the next entry will
show us a certain path of where this battery voltage will go. Maybe we will
get to 400wh? I don't know but what I do know is that we need this
battery down to 10.45v and may take another 12hrs to do it.
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Last edited by BroMikey; 11-29-2017 at 07:26 AM.
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