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 Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

#601
11-15-2017, 10:15 PM
 BroMikey Platinum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 4,827
24 hrs of battery measurements

Thanks to John Bedini I found Aaron and his site.

https://youtu.be/_5KiF0HctCA

__________________

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#602
11-16-2017, 02:15 AM
 BroMikey Platinum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 4,827
Battery voltage

As of 8:00 O'clock putting me at the 29 hr mark voltage is 11.30v
and the amps are still right at 490ma. So a 30 point decline in 5 hrs.

If the curve continues (I don't think so) it won't reach 10.50 to trip
the alarm till tomorrow. Using our adjusted watt average of 6.35 w and
multiplying by the 29 hour run this far :

Let's lower that down to 6.30 watt average so then

6.30 X 29 = 182 WATT/HOURS from the 16ah 12v battery. Luc was
getting 70WATT/HOURS for a single new 5AH battery so using his
number I will need more than 3X that or 210WATT/HOUR because
this is a 16ah

Looks like i may reach that figure sometime this morning and I go to
bed around 3 am for the past 40 years. Luc's drain current was around
150ma and mine is over 3 X that at 500ma which is right in line with
the size of the battery. Looks like a C36 hr rate?

So my maximum draw within the C20 rate I can run 800ma.

I know that many of you think this is boring but we must see what our
battery can hold before we can go for the extra and really be sure
we are getting any.

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Last edited by BroMikey; 11-16-2017 at 03:05 AM.
#603
11-16-2017, 05:01 AM
 BroMikey Platinum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 4,827
Battery Voltage Dropping

At 10:45pm the voltage dropped below 11v and is now reading 10.98v
staying close by so I hear the ringing go. It stinks of an acid
smell as it gives off it's last breath of energy. Got to go open the
door. I'll be back soon. If is goes to 1:00am or 3:00am I'll chime in
and show the figures.

Deja Vu the last time i ran figures like this that takes hard work
another site deleted them all and I have seen very few people on the
web doing this boring job, with the exception of Luc.

Can't wait to see the look on all the faces when i split the positive
with this same inverter and send some back to the front end with
a small boost converter that operates in the 97 percent efficient
range.

BRB
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#604
11-16-2017, 09:22 AM
 BroMikey Platinum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 4,827
Final Battery Baseline

Excuse me did i say 36hrs? No it wasn't it only ran 34 hrs at around
a 6.2watt average multiplied by 34 hrs or

6.2 X 34 = 210 watt/hours

The 24 hr mark was 3:00 pm and at 1:00 am I disconnected.

The battery is dead so I connected it up to the 3 battery function.
More video coming

https://youtu.be/bHDifuYTtNQ

-------------------------------------------------------------

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Last edited by BroMikey; 11-16-2017 at 09:26 AM.
#605
11-16-2017, 11:02 AM
 BroMikey Platinum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 4,827
It takes a while to upload and process video, I'm going to bed.

It is going up now. I am camped out for the night.

The Split Positive to Inverter video start time out is 1:45am and it is
now just about 5:00 am now and after a little over 3 hours the
battery differential has dropped from 14.8v beginning to 13.12v now.
The two run batteries are at 12.38v and 12.34v each having a
12.60v sitting

The amps have dropped to 550ma and the charge battery has risen
from a 10.50v after resting 45 minutes is now 11.61v.

Looks like i will leave it run 8 more hrs till I get up so my battery
keeps going higher, then i'll start thinking about when to connect
the boost circuit at around 12.2v ? I think?
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#606
11-16-2017, 06:51 PM
 BroMikey Platinum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 4,827
https://youtu.be/tY46iaY0-5w

I let the circuit run over night so I could get some charge back into
my battery and the inverter is taking the controlled amount of current
that it is designed for just as it did in the first test and at 8:30am I
got up to use the restroom and here is what I saw.

The differential was 12.58v, batteries 1 & 2 were 12.24v & 12.22v
and battery 3 was only up to 11.91v so I went back to bed.

I had to get up at 11:30am today and checked my batteries. They
all read the same reading. Battery 1 &2 were 12.13v & 12.12v while
the differential voltage was 12.11v with the charging battery charging
away the reading was 12.13v the amp draw was the same at 500ma.

At the beginning of testing straight off the battery the amp draw
was always a little bit higher at 550ma and after the experiment or
run got going the amp draw pretty much stays the same at 500ma
in both setups.

I could give a rats rear end, i am a regular guy with a garden light running
a pulse between positives that is using new split positive hook up that
is suppose to increase my time for the light.

I just don't know, so I am trying it. I stopped the run because all
batteries are equal. Time to connect the booster. I need 68 hrs to
break even on my time in the garden lighting.
__________________

Last edited by BroMikey; 11-16-2017 at 07:05 PM.
#607
11-16-2017, 09:24 PM
 BroMikey Platinum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 4,827
The experiment is stopped and this is a copy of battery voltages
with an average current draw of 500ma going to the inverter.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by John_Bedini It appears that this device is becoming over compcated, this is a simple device . To answer the question about the 12 volt battery it is charged at 15 volts anything below that the battery is not charged. You must bring the battery to the end of the charge curve. You need the reserve energy to get the correct Amp Hrs. In the demnstration I gave with the three battery system the balancing of the voltage is important weither we use 3 volts or 24 volts that is not important, it's the differnce potential energy to charge the third battery You must chose the load very carefully for this process to work. The load must run and charge the third battery. John

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Turion John, I understand what you are saying, and I understand the original intent of the 3 battery system. It was to rotate the three batteries and all three would remain charged. If the load was right. What I stumbled upon quite by accident was that if you have the right "bad" battery in the third position, something happens, almost as if a gate is opened, and you can run the setup WITHOUT rotating the batteries...battery three increases in voltage, and sometimes even the primaries (batteries one and two) increase in voltage, and the motor runs loads while a load is also across battery three. In over eight years of experimenting with this setup, I have seen that happen several times. The first time it happened, it lasted for several weeks and I thought I was going to be rich. I have seen it last for days. I have seen it last for hours. Then suddenly it stops happening and the primaries begin to discharge. On two occasions when it was "working" I disconnected all the connections on the batteries and discovered that battery 3 had flipped polarity. It is possible that this is what has happened EVERY time it has been "working". Several other folks have replicated this setup WITHOUT rotating the batteries and seen the same thing, although from the reports I have gotten the best anyone has had was a run of a couple days before it quit working. What we HOPED to find was a consistent method of getting a battery in the third position to achieve whatever state it needs to be in for this "gate" to open. We have not been able to do that yet. As I said, I think it is about getting battery 3 to flip its magnetic polarity, not its electrical polarity, although I believe it flips its electrical polarity at the same time. But just because it flips its electrical polarity doesn't mean it has flipped its magnetic polarity. So at least what I have been working on is not the same as the original intent of the circuit you were demonstrating, because I was NOT rotating the batteries. I realize that may just confuse folks, but I wanted to be sure that the difference between the two experiments is clear, even though the circuit is exactly the same. Dave
Quote:
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Last edited by BroMikey; 11-17-2017 at 04:30 AM.
#608
11-17-2017, 09:21 AM
 BroMikey Platinum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 4,827
Got it running and balanced out for my first try.

Starting at 2:00am and counting. My differential is 12.55v

It's 4:00am and my diff. is 12.75v the 2 runs are 12.18v and the
charge battery is 11.70v at 2:00am the charge batt was 11.85v
so it looks like divergence or a greater potential difference

https://youtu.be/a48H03Y9LmE

__________________

Last edited by BroMikey; 11-17-2017 at 10:16 AM.
#609
11-17-2017, 08:25 PM
 BroMikey Platinum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 4,827
I got up at 1:30pm the fuse had popped again so I checked the
voltages. A1 &B2 were 11.86 and 11.84 the charge went way up
due to no power being sent back to the front end at 12.12 all
these voltages while the circuit runs.

I tried the booster again with 2 separate battery banks and is works
normal, it seems non isolated converters will not work with this
inverter. Learning the hard way.
back and forth unstable, finally I ran it again with a 70,000uf cap
across the boosters source battery or C3 to see if that might help
and I was able to adjust it way better, then it just popped.

Looks like I'll have to rotate the batteries sometime down the road
unless my other 2 converters come in time in the mail.

Maybe a blocking cap could allow the use of a non- isolated booster?

After running the little booster to charge up the front end it popped
after 20 minute but while my battery C3 was under a load and being
charged the voltages were 11.76v again the run batteries were 12.02v
and 12.04v during operation at this time.

The only other time I have used a boost converter was an isolated one
and I had not trouble with stability.

The inverter does not like my 900 watt common ground booster so
it looks like for switchmode inverter circuitry the isolation is a must

It is 6:30pm the run batteries are 11.74v and 11.76v the charge is
11.81v and the diff is 11.51v More video soon.
__________________

Last edited by BroMikey; 11-18-2017 at 12:48 AM.
#610
11-18-2017, 02:42 AM
 BroMikey Platinum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 4,827
It doesn't look good. Going south well before time.

All of my goofing around burning power and using a joule thief at
poor efficiencies and burning out one booster, I fear has doomed
my run. But I hope everyone is getting the idea on how to hook
one of these up if they get the right circuits. The right tuning
might make for a better test.

Thus far i have little control.

Can't give up tho it is to much fun.

I had a digital booster that gave me perfect control but these same
tests go south all about the same, however i have never documented
the exact data points.

It is 8:30pm

The differential is maintaining right at 11.44v while the other readings
decrease. A1 & B2 are 11.52 and 11.54 the charger has raised B2 two
data points at the expense of 550ma at 11.71v on the charge battery.

https://youtu.be/tZuF7yZ9Vvs

It's 9:30pm run batteries 11.48v & 11.51v boost circuit raising B2 three
data points. Diff is 11.39v and the charge battery 11.66v

It is 12:30am Sat morning

A1 & B2 11.28v & 11.35V with a diff of 11.18v and the charging C3 11.51v

It's almost 2:00am and I just swapped out the mickey mouse joule thief
one one of my smallest 4 channel SSSG bedini oscillators that gives me
more Horse power up to 20 watts. I is running at a full amp on the input
off the 11.45v Charge C3 battery then boosting to (IN GENMODE) to 23v
maybe 400ma is my guess after the translation has always been that
amount.

This drives the Charge (C3) battery down and pushes up the run side
to achieve a greater differential. My diff. was down to 11.04v and I did
not like that. I am starting to become aware more of the objective.

Keep the run side up high and the charge side down at a low resistance
to charge. Keep the run side maybe up to 25 or 26 volts by using the
booster that drives the charge battery down to a low potential.

For the moment 9 watts going back to the front end in hopes of catching
up. I should have been doing this all along but this is how you learn.

Next time around should be better.

it's now 4:30am the run batteries 11.04 & 11.20v with the diff at 11.16v
charge batteries 11.12v. The SSSG osc is barely keeping the nose of
this ship up, hopefully it will still keep from crashing over night.

At 7:30am this morning I was up checking the setup.

Batteries A1 & B2 were 8.5v & 9.4v the diff was 11.51v and charge 6.85v
__________________

Last edited by BroMikey; 11-18-2017 at 10:05 PM.
#611
11-18-2017, 10:58 PM
 BroMikey Platinum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 4,827
Experimental failure

SEE THE GRAPH UPDATE BELOW

With all the burnouts and bad tuning i learned what not to do.

I knew I didn't have the right stuff but had to give this a try for
me and others who think it was worth a shot. As can be seen my
run burnt power right and left and didn't even get close to 68hrs.

But what surprised me was that I could run batteries down so low and
still have 11.51v hitting the inverter. I should have known but I just
didn't think about it til it happened.

So that would mean, say I was living in a camper (been there) all by
my self and the sun had not come up for several days to charge my
3 dead 110ah batteries that choked the inverter at 10.5v day before
yesterday and I wanted to charge my laptop.

Just hook those 3 batteries up in split positive formation and you might
get another day out of them. Of course you might slaughter your
batteries unless you changed over to ALUM.

Anyway that is not the experiment. I was never told by Dave or Desa or
anyone else to make this test, I was told not to do it this way. Got
try it anyway.

A special thx to everyone who has come before me to show test results
you guys are awesome, even if you do talk to much.

It is 8:30pm

The differential is maintaining right at 11.44v while the other readings
decrease. A1 & B2 are 11.52 and 11.54 the charger has raised B2 two
data points at the expense of 550ma at 11.71v on the charge battery.

https://youtu.be/tZuF7yZ9Vvs

It's 9:30pm run batteries 11.48v & 11.51v boost circuit raising B2 three
data points. Diff is 11.39v and the charge battery 11.66v

It is 12:30am Sat morning

A1 & B2 11.28v & 11.35V with a diff of 11.18v and the charging C3 11.51v

It's almost 2:00am and I just swapped out the mickey mouse joule thief
one one of my smallest 4 channel SSSG bedini oscillators that gives me
more Horse power up to 20 watts. I is running at a full amp on the input
off the 11.45v Charge C3 battery then boosting to (IN GENMODE) to 23v
maybe 400ma is my guess after the translation has always been that
amount.

This drives the Charge (C3) battery down and pushes up the run side
to achieve a greater differential. My diff. was down to 11.04v and I did
not like that. I am starting to become aware more of the objective.

Keep the run side up high and the charge side down at a low resistance
to charge. Keep the run side maybe up to 25 or 26 volts by using the
booster that drives the charge battery down to a low potential.

For the moment 9 watts going back to the front end in hopes of catching
up. I should have been doing this all along but this is how you learn.

Next time around should be better.

it's now 4:30am the run batteries 11.04 & 11.20v with the diff at 11.16v
charge batteries 11.12v. The SSSG osc is barely keeping the nose of
this ship up, hopefully it will still keep from crashing over night.

At 7:30am this morning I was up checking the setup.

Batteries A1 & B2 were 8.5v & 9.4v the diff was 11.51v and charge 6.85v
__________________

Last edited by BroMikey; 11-18-2017 at 11:02 PM.
#612
Yesterday, 11:22 AM
 BroMikey Platinum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 4,827
NEW TEST RUNNING

4:30am this setup on Sunday morning, good night.

Run batteries 12.55v and 12.53v charge battery is charging 10.63v
and the diff is dead on 14.50v and I had to take some out of the run
batteries to get the diff below 15v. The inverter would not start up
and run on 15v so 14.5 is holding for the longest time .

The current is exactly the same every time I run this small inverter
at 550ma and the little joule thief is my only boost pump and is running
at 500ma.

It is a balanced system for the moment and seems to be hanging in
one spot forever. Let's hope so. The dead batteries tied together in
parallel are making for a much much lower resistance to the on coming
charge and after sitting on these meters for days I can tell a there is a
huge change.

__________________

#613
Yesterday, 08:26 PM
 BroMikey Platinum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 4,827
Here is pretty much what DESA said he was doing, tho I can't find
his posts anymore. Seems like with 2 boosters the losses would double.
DESA did not use an inverter,he used the mod mtr

DESA WROTE: Gift that keeps giving.
As it is set now if I only recuperate CFL 20W this is in the money. Please let me know if my measurments or asumptions is wrong.
David.-image-jpg

Quote:
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Last edited by BroMikey; Yesterday at 08:53 PM.

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