Energetic Forum  
Facebook Twitter Google+ Pinterest LinkedIn Delicious Digg Reddit WordPress StumbleUpon Tumblr Translate Addthis Aaron Murakami YouTube 2020 ENERGY CONFERENCE - PRE-REGISTER NOW!!!!

2020 Energy Science & Technology Conference
PRE-REGISTER NOW!!!
http://energyscienceconference.com


Go Back   Energetic Forum > >
   

Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

* NEW * BEDINI RPX BOOK & DVD SET: BEDINI RPX

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #31  
Old 06-11-2016, 11:23 PM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,059
Also beware that China Man speak bad English sometimes
he calls this a BUCK CONVERTER but I don't think so.

It looks like a simple circuit? But i don't know.

Chip number XL4016


http://www.ebay.com/itm/8A-DC4-40V-
To-DC2-36V-Buck-Power-Converter-200W-XL4016-
PWM-Volt-Step-Down-Moudle-/262159873990?hash=item3d09f237c6:g:FgkAAOS
wHQ9WVYQj





Description
Main parameters:

Product name: DC voltage converter
Conversion method: PWM
Input voltage: DC 4-40V
Output voltage: DC 1.25-36V
Max current: 8A
Max power: 200W
Conversion efficiency: 94%
Switch frequency: 180KHz
Appearance size: 61*41*27mm

Features:

This product uses XL4016 switch voltage conversion chip, and
realizes double rectification by collaborating with MBR10200.
Max input can reach 40V, continuously adjustable
for 1.25~36V output.

Max output current can reach 8A.
Need a fan.
Recommend no more than 5A for long-time work.
Support panel installation:
1. Drill a hole for 7mm on the panel.
2. Extend potentiometer handle.
3. Tighten the screw and cover the knob.

Package List:

1 x 200W XH-M401 DC-DC 4-40V To 1.25-36V Buck Module 8A XL4016E1 Voltage Converter
__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 06-11-2016 at 11:27 PM.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

Download SOLAR SECRETS by Peter Lindemann
Free - Get it now: Solar Secrets

  #32  
Old 06-12-2016, 12:03 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,059
LTC3780 Constant voltage and current



http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-to-DC-
converter-Boost-buck-power-supply-Constant-voltage-
current-Regulators/351755769339?hash=item51e647
15fb:g:RRsAAOSwqv9V6Mrz





LTC3780 Constant voltage and current DC to DC converter 4-32V to 0.8-32V adjustable Automatic Step-up/step-down Boost/buck power supply Module Solar Wind Energy charging Vehicle Voltage Regulator led driver #1300201

Module parameters:

Module name: 8A Automatic Step-up/step-down Constant voltage and current module

Module Properties: non-isolated synchronous rectifier Automatic Step-up/step-down module

Input voltage: DC 4-32V

Input Current: 8A (MAX),Peak 10A(Long natural Radiating Working within 6A)

Quiescent Current: 5mA (working voltage not simultaneously be errors)

Output voltage: DC 0.8-32V continuously adjustable

Output Current: 8A (MAX) Peak 10A (<=6A long natural cooling inside)

Constant current output range:0.2-8A

Operating temperature: -40 to +85 C

Operating Frequency: 200KHz

Conversion efficiency: Up to 98% (Efficiency is related to Input
and output voltage, current, voltage difference)

Over current protection: yes

Short circuit protection: (input 10A fuse) Double circuit
protection, use more secure

Over-temperature protection: Yes (over-temperature
automatically reduces the output voltage)

input Reverse Polarity Protection: None, (if required in the input string into the diode)



Installation: 4pcs 3mm screws

Output preventanti-irrigation: None, when used for charging
coupled blocking diode, otherwise it will damage the module.

Wiring: none welding wire terminal output,
(IN as input, OUT is the output)

Module dimensions: length 60mm X width 51mm X height 20mm

PACKING INCLUDING:

1x power supply Module
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 06-12-2016, 11:44 PM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,059
For Your Info (FYI) This is what I found out about the scooter motor
commutator design for clamping the winding into it. I am afraid to
press it back down but I only raised each tab 2mm or less. Still
I might solder the wire on instead.


__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 06-16-2016, 04:07 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,059
Boost Converter 10AMP 400Watts

It's gonna Bee Sweet. Sposta bee here in 2 weeks









Specification:

Input voltage : 6V-40V

Input Current: 15A(max)

Output voltage : 8V-80V(adjustable)

Output power:400W(max)

Output current: maximum output current of 10A ( adjustable )

Output power: the effective power P = input voltage V * 10A

Conversion efficiency: up to 95% ( input voltage, current;
output voltage and current impact of conversion efficiency )

Short circuit protection : Fuse
__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 06-16-2016 at 04:19 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 06-17-2016, 01:47 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
You wil have to let us know if it will work wired as Matt has shown us. Some of the better boost converters I have purchased will NOT run that way. I have purchased 8 different boost converters and two of them would not run the way Matt showed us to wire them. Unfortunately, they were the more efficient ones.

Dave
I sure will and I also remembered that when I bought it, I
would like a boost that is a tiny bigger than 100 watts so
I decided to take the chance. I can always buy more.

I used 20awg wire and uses 30 extra turns hoping to run
a tiny bit more power to charge my 2000 ah 12 battery set.

I would love to charge those big batteries off this small
Pulse Motor Tesla switch rewound Kool charger.
Tell Matt I appreciate all the hard work handed over on a
silver platter, I understand now that the motor switch
is an off shoot and people don't realize how hard it is to
duplicate the motor switch action with a circuit.

When I get it running I'll post my success story for all to see.

I don't know why I never picked this experiment up? I see it
so clear now but 2 years ago? I don't know.

Keep splitting the pos.... everytime you want to run a load
Humm... I am thinking about it. I am charging batteries.

I will do what I said first, run a light bulb on pure lectric current
and watch the battery burn down. Record time and joules.

A car light bulb as a load is a great way to start because a bulb
will stay at the same amp draw all the way down to 12V + 12V
=24v to stop at. Bulbs are nice to work with, you can measure
the current once or twice say at the end and the draw will be the
same.

I will use all three batteries in parallel to run my light till the three
12volt batteries reach 12v or maybe 11.5v something like this.

I don't need my magic switching motor to do that nor a converter
yet this must be done to give me an idea how many joules my
batteries under test can hold and how many joules is consume in
conventional (Burn them amps to the ground) operation.

With an idea how many joules I have in those three batteries
I will then connect all three batteries up to the light bulb as
suggested with a split pos....... arrangement.

That I can tell you will far surpass the previous connection.

I see all of the information, the diagrams, connection paths.

The part that is making my brain go cross-eyed is how a load
with a voltage drop doesn't cost anything in joules to run.

And I know the answer too. The answer is that instead of power
going to ground and burning up it is going to another battery to
charge it. My conventional horns are sticking out all
over.


$18

__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 06-17-2016 at 02:05 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 06-17-2016, 01:30 PM
wrtner wrtner is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Post 969 In the Basic Free Energy Device thread has a link to the pdf of building the motor as well as a link to the schematic of the boost converter.
... if you know what dropbox is and have an account:
Basic Free Energy Device
__________________
 

Last edited by wrtner; 06-17-2016 at 03:40 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 06-17-2016, 07:24 PM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,059
For beginners who have many questions look here
this video tells you about boost converters.

Longer wires or longer coils produce higher voltages.


Working in 105 degree temps is kicking my other end.
Extreme high temp advisory in effect now.

http://www.energeticforum.com/289423-post1072.html






__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 06-18-2016 at 02:52 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 06-18-2016, 08:58 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,059
Okay I did my very first ever SPLIT THE POSITIVE runs
And I have to say "IT WORKS!!! Or I am loosing my
marbles?

Here is what happened. I couldn't wait any longer so I
pulled out some of my 2ah Lithium ION (Choice Batteries)
Batteries and this diagram shows you how I did it.

I ran the system 4 times and each time the current draw on
the modified household LED light bulb was always 400 mil-amp
at 3.15 volts.

These batteries are A-number one charged. All batteries started
at 3.85 well one was 3.90 volts. Now after running my load 4 times
for 10 minutes and the last time 15 minutes before switching I
am reading all batteries higher than the start so there must be
some kind of a mistake. I had to say that because it really
does seem to work. I'll keep doing it to see where I messed up.

I have this crazy feeling as I watch these batteries run this
light with no drop in battery capacity. Something is not right.

I am pretty tickled about it. Of course in the back of my mind
it can't work so I must of made a mistake right?This is to
easy. I don't want to start dancing to soon but it really look like
we have our foot in the door here.

I'll shake these meters to see if they are acting up. Nope no
rattle there.

I am liking this recirculated power. It is a regular LED bulb from
China with the aluminum heat sink and it lights the whole room
up. I didn't want to much pull on these little batteries so I only
enabled 4 LED's to match the power draw I was after.


PS I am back after letting batteries sit for 30 minutes
and a final 5th run trying to get these batteries to drop.
Battery Bank A = 7.87 v and Battery Bank B = 3.93 v

PS the is the second return, I see the loaded voltages now
changing first run 7.35 v and 4.05v now after 6 runs the
first bank loaded voltage is 7.25v so now miliamp draw
went down to 300 ma from the original 400 ma.draw.

So little by little the batteries are dropping slightly. I will hook
it direct now.


__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 06-18-2016 at 10:20 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 06-18-2016, 08:35 PM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,059
Last night I kind of jumped the gun so to speak getting
ahead of myself so here it is, the conventional curve (No Curve Yet)
that is needed to establish a norm with these batteries.

To maintain the 400ma draw I have installed a 1.5 ohm
resistor as shown. Let us see what these batteries can
do over a period of say an hour or two, then we will
split up the same three batteries to run off positive terminals
only.

Just like the regenx, everybody throws a coil on a magnet
wheel and speculates but what about the measurement during
transition? I mean some sort of establish norm must set the
precedent.



It was fun to watch the light run and battery charge the other way.

__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 06-18-2016 at 09:50 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 06-18-2016, 10:04 PM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,059
Calculations in Joules

Without a precedent of conventional operation this deduction
as to whether or not power is being recycled leaves us guessing.

If anyone has done this comparison and has it posted online
please let me see your results. The calculation is done with grade
school math using times tables to multiply volts X Amps per
second or Volts X Amps X seconds = JOULES

So many Joules per run. Each minute has 60 second so the value
of the number 60 is multiplied by your watts. This is watt/minutes

So if you are making a run like me at 400ma and 3.15volt for ten
minutes your calculation will look like this.

.400ma X 3.15volts X (TIME IN SECONDS)

Time in seconds for 10 minutes = 60 sec X 10 Min = 600 sec

So this means for my experiment

(.400ma X 3.15volt = 1.26watts) X 600 sec = 756 Joules

Now I can clearly see how many nuggets I ate up over
a 10 minute run time. Next looking at battery curves.

As a battery runs down it will hold steady at one place for
extended periods not moving many points on the scale then
all at once it will decline slightly more rapidly and next it will
decline very quickly over a short space and fail.

I will be back to show you my curve for these batteries.


(NOTATION)
To be fair conventional runs must be done the same as is required
with split positive runs. Split positive runs for my batteries need
changing around after 10-15 min. This constitutes a rest interval
however small say 2 minutes between runs, therefore each
conventional run should follow the same pattern.



For those of you who have never seriously considered all of the
efforts this man has made to show battery curves I suggest
you take advantage of it.

God Bless you JOHN B.



__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 06-18-2016 at 10:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 06-19-2016, 01:26 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,059
Here are a few numbers crunched in for my Lithium ION
2ah batteries connected in parallel and conventional mode.

I have extended the chart. I will be updating this chart
every so many minutes as I collect data.


PS notice I have included the amp hour capacity of the
batteries at the C20 rate with calculation. Look at the diagram.

Later we will need to recalculate what a split positive C20
rate would come to to be fair. In the split positive arrangement
only 2000mah are considered. A C20 rate for a 2000mah battery
comes to a load of 100ma so I would have to run a split positive
system 3 times as long to collect data.


__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 06-19-2016 at 02:29 AM.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #42  
Old 06-19-2016, 03:54 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,059
See the previous chart

This chart is bigger so the curve may be seen with
greater ease. 270 minutes into the C5 discharge for
Lithium ION batteries.

The graph has been expanded with a 1 volt area of 3 to 4 volts.
Also notice the ever dropping current from over 400ma on
start up until now at less than 300ma the run in progress.

__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 06-21-2016 at 08:31 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 06-19-2016, 05:47 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,059
Joule Count for Chart above

As an average over all mili-amp draw from 405ma starting
down to 300ma ending a figure of 350ma is found. Yet each
segment might be calculated separately each having a specific
number of joules and then add them all together.

Each time frame for a given ma draw varies.

Segment Number

(1) 3.90v-3.76v= average =3.83volts X .405 X (sec 900)
Joules = 1396 j

(2) 3.74v X .400 X 1800sec = 2693 Joules

(3) 3.70v X .380 X 2700sec = 3796 Joules

(4) 3.67v X .375 X 1800sec = 2477 Joules

(5) 3.64v X .360 X 1800sec = 2359 Joules

(6) 3.60v X .340 X 1800sec = 2203 Joules

(7) 3.56v X .325 X 1800sec = 2083 Joules

(8) 3.52v X .305 X 1800sec = 1932 Joules

(9) 3.49v X .300 X 1800sec = 1885 Joules

10) 3.44v X .280 X 1800sec = 1734 Joules

11) 3.33v X .300 X 1800sec = 1798 Joules


Total Number of Joules? Nuggets I call them = 22,960 J
There is no grey area/kind-a-sorta happy horsezhit this
is the number. I will be letting you know. All testing is
carried out to the second.
__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 06-19-2016 at 06:19 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 06-19-2016, 06:05 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,059
These Lithium ION batteries have been charging for an
hour now after reconfiguring them into a series string. I use
the C5 charge rate, just as I use the C5 discharge rate
please make a note of it.

Battery voltage must reach 12.6v in the 3 battery series
line up with each of the three batteries needing to top
out at 4.2v.

I bought some impulse relays and am brainstorming a possible
switching madness to keep me from changing batteries every
30 minute for quite probably days to finish the counter part
test to finalize this comparison run.

If you have an easy circuit to switch batteries please post
here ASAP.

__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 06-21-2016 at 08:32 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 06-19-2016, 11:28 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,059
Split Positive First Run Under Way.

This is where I will stop till the next day as I have no switch gear.
For those of you who have not switched batteries
every 30 minutes may be over charging the charging
battery, and burning up energy as witnessed by no increase
in charge voltage when the max charge is reached.

This is unacceptable therefore batteries MUST be rotated
before energy is thrown away.

In the last 2 hours of this first split positive run 2 batteries set
at 3.85v and the charge battery at 3.96v

The amp draw is closely watched and averaged, the start
voltages shown are measure after 30 seconds. Each start up
run for 30 minutes is preceded by a 2 minute rest during that
time batteries are changed around.

I am anxious to continue


PS it is day two and I have updated this chart (See Joule Count)

We have almost hit the halfway mark for joule counting after 3.5hrs

The chart is being updated every so many minutes please
stay tuned. It's looking pretty good. I wasted joules I won,t
count, not to many. Gotta be sure watt's up with this experiment.
I see everyone's post, thank you.



SECOND ENTRY DAY TWO

It looks like it's going to be on into the night before I reach
the 22,000 joules but I can tell you this, the batteries all get a rest
and some charging are along the way. I like the way that the
battery has time to recover when being charged. To give you
an idea of what I mean battery C or the charge battery
always stays at 3.95v at 200ma being fed into it.

At 300 minutes into this run

Battery A = 3.65v
Battery B = 3.45v
Battery C = 3.95v

This is the voltage while the circuit is running and circulating
200ma thru my LED light bulb. To keep a C20 rate I should be
down to 125ma, instead am going with a C10 rate. Using a
C10 rate will cost me joules as compared to the C20 rate
yet these Lithium ion batteries are made to handle that.

These experiments are more than meets the eye and very
little information in video form or otherwise is available on
the subject.

No one who has the time has taken a systematic approach
showing video footage of how energy can be recirculated.


Third entry: New graph below, I am running out of space.
See 2nd plot below.













__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 06-20-2016 at 07:50 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 06-19-2016, 11:33 AM
yaro1776 yaro1776 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 46
Hey Bro M,

Some switching info for you from James MacDonald (posting problems?) in the following:

I wanted to post some information that Bro Mikey is looking for.

It appears that the company called Blue Sea Systems makes Lead Acid battery switches which can be wired up to a few batteries to switch them In and Out of the charging circuit. They have Isolators that allow 1 battery to run the engine while another battery runs the boat electronics. They also have automatic switching for charging a battery or manual switching for adding Battery 1 and 2 to the charging circuit. The products are not cheap but they will get the job done he wants to do. I just wanted to be able to post. Maybe you can send him the information. A combination of the two below or just one of them would help in making battery switching in and out easier.


https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Syst...lue+sea+system


https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Syst...lue+sea+system

Happy switching,
Yaro
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 06-20-2016, 01:54 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,059
Quote:
Originally Posted by yaro1776 View Post
Hey Bro M,

Some switching info for you from James MacDonald (posting problems?) in the following:

I wanted to post some information that Bro Mikey is looking for.

Maybe you can send him the information. A combination of the two below or just one of them would help in making battery switching in and out easier.



Happy switching,
Yaro

Thanks Yaro

Good to know what can be purchased across the counter.

Also look at my updated graphs above.
__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 06-20-2016 at 01:56 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 06-20-2016, 04:54 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,059
This split positive battery system I built has past the equal
mark hrs ago. After 9hrs plus the light is burning along and my batteries voltages are far from 3.25v which is considered a dead battery.
The conventional system killed the battery in 5.5hrs extracting
22,000 joules to keep the light going. Now after 9 hrs of run time
I have recovered or recirculated some energy and the joule count
is over 24,000 J with no end in sight.

Battery A = 3.48v
Battery B = 3.62v
Battery C = 3.82v

It;s-a-lookin pretty dern good from over here.

See updated graphs above.


...
__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 06-20-2016 at 04:59 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 06-20-2016, 05:53 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,059
Hey Dave

I will listen to the best of my ability to understand what Bob
is saying. To split the positive without a capacitor or battery
might be done by creating a potential difference using say motor
coils that would require some form of rectification.

After rectification there is a positive and a negative.

That is what I needed, I been trying to go beyond this present
circuit to apply it to other things, this answers my question.

Keep at those exotic motors with magnets.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 06-20-2016, 06:16 PM
bistander bistander is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,669
Test question

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post
See the previous chart

This chart is bigger so the curve may be seen with
greater ease. 270 minutes into the C20 discharge for
Lithium ION batteries.

The graph has been expanded with a 1 volt area of 3 to 4 volts.
Also notice the ever dropping current from over 400ma on
start up until now at less than 300ma the run in progress.

Hi there,

Good to see you posting data. I assume these results are from this set up:

[/SIZE]


And where you calculated 22,960J. And ran for 5.5 hours. However you were attempting a C20 discharge. You were running a bit higher current, so maybe it was more like a C15. But that means you should have run for 15 hours, not 5.5. Something is very wrong with that test. Perhaps the cells were not fully charged.

I think if you want to use that as a baseline, you need to explain the discrepancy or repeat the test.

Thanks,

bi
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 06-20-2016, 08:02 PM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,059

hello Bitstander

Yes I agree that the C20 and C15 or the C10 rates do
not seem to apply with these Lithium ion batteries.

This is my first test ever with this kind of battery.

Also Lithium ion batteries are not generally charged by
such low rates like 100ma so I really am at a loss to
apply any such standards as we do with lead acid wet cells.

However I have concluded that each time I charge these
batteries I get a certain voltage for a full charge at about
4 volts after 20 minutes.

During my recirculating split positive runs I speculated
that since as little as 60ma was being returned at the end
that these batteries eventually ran down.

Also I have concluded that if I let the batteries set on the
table for a day that the same amount of power is still in them
as when I had left them.

I have also concluded that I don't know much about the
charge, discharge rates or capacity for true baseline
standards for lithium ion batteries. I maybe that the 2 ah
rating on these cells is not the actual value. This would not
surprise me as lead/acid batteries are regularly only good
for 60 percent of their joule count.

Whatever the joule count is splitting the positive is not suppose
to care. The claim is that energy is recirculated back to
battery C while running loads off of the elevated potential
difference from series batteries B & C.

I have concluded that the system does recirculate energy.

I have concluded so far with test #1 that these batteries charge
up to 4.2volts and discharge to 3.2volts as specified by the
manufacturer of these batteries.

I will have to re-figure the real amp hour ratings and their "C"
rate that is probably designed for a C5, you are right., but then
I am not sure yet about Lithium ion batteries.

This leads us to consider the possibility that internal resistance
from loading batteries at a great rate might waste some power.

Based on my observations in this simple split positive first
run I can get more energy out of this set up with the same
batteries. And it looks like I just got 50 percent more before
the system went dead.

Whatever the joule count is suppose to be the claim is that
all power can be recirculated and if correctly done will result
in a circuit that runs loads for free.

My test of course is inconclusive, so a self runner is out, THUS FAR!!

This testing has finished and I will be back with a joule count.

This document says C2 and C1 rates apply


http://powerelectronics.com/site-fil...g/504PET23.pdf


So I don't know what I am doing with these batteries. Yeah these
batteries were a poor choice.
............

__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 06-20-2016 at 09:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #52  
Old 06-21-2016, 04:53 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,059
I have been reading all comments and the one about
limiting charge current to the charge battery is a good
one.

Let me give the joule count for this latest experiment.

See setups in charts above.

Conventional mode = 22,100 Joules

Split Positive mode = 29,900 Joules

So we can see a huge difference in available joules to
light a bulb even with my crumby quick setup not very
well thought out. I couldn't wait, had to get my feet wet
you understand.


This experiment has shown me that the principle splitting
the positive offers extra power right away. However in my
build the batteries are unknown to me or I am in unfamiliar
territory by using them. Probably the miliamp usage is to high
and the charge battery is constantly over charging and burning
up energy as the max has already been reached.

I remember now watching the charge battery over charge for
several 30 minute periods where no increase in voltage occurred.

I have some bigger batteries. And that Matt
motor/switch in the works.


__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 06-21-2016, 07:38 AM
Aaron's Avatar
Aaron Aaron is offline
Co-Founder & Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 11,003
3 battery splitting the positive basic

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post
Battery voltage must reach 12.6v in the 3 battery series line up with each of the three batteries needing to top out at 4.2v.
BroMikey,

You're doing some great work here and I hope you keep posting your results.

What was the highest voltage batt 3 (single reversed batt) went to when it didn't climb any higher?

Lithium lifepo4 and lithium ions (usually cobalt based) are constant voltage batteries and not constant current batteries (like lead acids) so although they can show a higher voltage for longer, it can be deceiving to see a voltage last so long.

However, with that said, you are right about joules vs joules so whether it is a constant voltage or constant current battery, work is work from a certain voltage down to a certain voltage and that is what you want.

The Peukert Effect doesn't apply that much to lithium batteries like they do with lead acids. A lead acid 20 hour discharge will give you a certain amps discharge for 20 hours. At a 10 hour discharge, it will be 90% of that and at a 5 hour discharge, which is the most any lead acid deep cycle should be discharged at will be about 80% of the 20 hour discharge. So with lithium batts, this effect is supposed to be non existent so whether you discharge a lithium at a 20 hour rate or 5 hour rate, you should still have the full capacity.

If this is the case, then a 1 or 2 hour discharge rate should be an honest test with your little lithiums and won't take too long before you have to rotate them.

With your conventional discharge chart - 6000ma you're showing 300ma for 20 hours. If there is no Peukert effect, you should be able to hammer them with a 1 or 2 hour discharge rate and get the full real capacity.

6000ma for 2 hours is 3 amps * 3.x volts = about 10 watts. It would be a good test with all 3 batts charged and discharged at a 1 or 2 hour rate to see if you get the same as the 20 hour rate. If so, you validate the claim that lithiums have no Peukert effect and therefore, you can accelerate all your tests with multiple rotations in one day.

Do you have a factory charger for the batts that charges them up and a green light comes on when they're done? If so, what voltage are they at when they're supposed to get done?

Also, if you charge it conventionally and then discharge it at x hour rating, what voltage does the battery drop to when you get 100% of the rated amp hour capacity? If you know that number, then charge all 3 batts with a conventional charger until they're full. Then discharge one battery until you get 100% of the ah rating and it is considered dead. Put that battery in position #3 and have 1 & 2 in series and run the 3 battery test to calculate how many joules you windup getting until they're all dead. Starting with 2 full charged batts and one fully discharged, you should not be able to get more than 4ah's of capacity at the 3.x volt range until all 3 are dead.

This is the old original concept and has nothing to do with pulsing, recovery, anything other than just the simple basic 3 battery schematic John had posted for ages.

I may have missed something here, but just wanted to get a few clarifications.
__________________
Sincerely,
Aaron Murakami

Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 06-21-2016, 07:57 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,059

Wow that is great to know, keep me filled in on your
past interactions with John B.


Yes I have and do use conventional chargers and did
use a conventional charger and they went up in 2 hours or
three was it? I was watching a show and charging so then
the battery voltage was 4.2volts.

This is where lithium batteries slow way down and stop.

Yes battery 3 should be somewhat lower or over charging
takes place right away. I see that now.

And I see what you mean on discharging battery 3 and using
battery 1 & 2 to run a charge on them.

Let me think and I want to add these joules again to see
what I ended up with

Thanks Aaron, keep up the great work and I am looking
forward to your new video's in July.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 06-21-2016, 08:44 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,059
Okay here is the deal, somedays I can't see the forest for the
trees because I had to collect data every 30 minutes for two
days till I could not see straight. Now that the smoke has cleared
and you guys have chimed in I am getting things corrected such
as the "C" rate, I have fixed the error now so it reads C5 rate.

In fact I was almost delirious those 2 days over the weekend and
sitting around doing data collection in the AC was all I was good for
after spending several days out in the 108 index

Thanks to Bistander also. What you said was so true. I have these
batteries of unknown capacity and saw a G2 number on them and
figured they were standard 2 ah Lithium. But they must be 1ah
and I am only getting 600mah out of 1. Some of these batteries
are lower rated.

Like Bistander said "SOMETHING IS BAD WRONG" that was forsure
as it turns out for capacity 3 of these paralleled batteries only
rang up to 1.6ah altogether so that is very low. Then I charged
them up again (With a regulated supply on an amp meter moving the
dial every 10-20 minute til full) and did the split pos.....thing.

Thanks for the heads up guys, I really goofed. I'll figure it
all up again now that the data is in.

I just knew something was wrong and now I can get my act
straight.

.............



...............


PS the sony batteries are US17670GR and some say 1200mah and now I see these are not my new batteries, Oops
and others say 1400mah
__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 06-21-2016 at 09:31 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 06-21-2016, 04:10 PM
bistander bistander is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,669
Lithium cells

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post

hello Bitstander

Yes I agree that the C20 and C15 or the C10 rates do
not seem to apply with these Lithium ion batteries.

This is my first test ever with this kind of battery.

As Aaron mentioned, Peukert doesn't really apply to Lithium ion cells. So for a 2C, 1C, C/5 or C/20 charge or discharge, Ampere-hours will be the same. For very high rates, > 25C, that will change. But at reasonable currents, you can pretty much count on C Ah for a good fully charged cell.

And Lithium ion is nearly 100% for Coulombic efficiency; like 99.98% or thereabouts. So if your methods are good, you can count Ah in and get the same Ah out of a cell assuming you start and end at the same state of charge (SOC). And SOC can be fairly accurately determined from the cell's open circuit voltage.

I assume you were using the 18650 cells, 18mm dia 65mm long. Those are common and cheap. Here is a link to an inexpensive charger/discharger (<$20) which should be able to characterize cells for you. Take some precautions when charging Lithium as severely overcharged cells can overheat and possibly ignite.

I think these Lithium cells would make excellent subjects for your tests. They should eliminate a lot of ambiguity you find dealing with lead-acid.

bi

IMAX B6 DC Charger 5A 50W (Copy)
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 06-21-2016, 08:04 PM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,059
Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
As Aaron mentioned, Peukert doesn't really apply to Lithium ion cells.
I think these Lithium cells would make excellent subjects for your tests. They should eliminate a lot of ambiguity you find dealing with lead-acid.

[/url]
ambiguity? I.m not sure either? Yes it is true we get
anomalies with lead/acid but I think all batteries do that don't they?

For instants I told you all I grabbed the wrong batteries (and yes these
batteries are the standard cheap batteries you mentioned) so I think
maybe they have sulfates on the plates mates.

I gottem on the Bedini right now in spkie mode way way down low
for the day. I built several of these SG OSC boxes ranging sizes
and I wouldn't trade these for my right hand.

Thanks for the information on Lithium-ion and the effects of speed
charging. Yeah I figure that the way these things zap up right away
with no heat. Yes I do understand your comments on heat and over
charging Lithium ion batteries. This has been all over the web for
years now that they could EXPLODE and so because of those
entries I have always wondered if I could blow one up.

But I am to smart for that. I hate poison. I was even thinking use
a rewound cordless drill motor cage to rewind like Matt does
with his big one to see what effects that and a tiny booster
might do. Who knows maybe I'll get time.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 06-21-2016, 09:45 PM
bistander bistander is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,669
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post

For instants I told you all I grabbed the wrong batteries (and yes these
batteries are the standard cheap batteries you mentioned) so I think
maybe they have sulfates on the plates mates.
I don't think you'll find any sulfur in those Lithium cells. And not all 18650 cells are cheap. Tesla uses that size cell in their EVs by the tens of thousands. Top quality. And you pay for it.

I've never seen any evidence that pulsing has any benefit on Lithium batteries whatever.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 06-21-2016, 09:49 PM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,059
Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
I don't think you'll find any sulfur in those Lithium cells. And not all 18650 cells are cheap. Tesla uses that size cell in their EVs by the tens of thousands. Top quality. And you pay for it.

I've never seen any evidence that pulsing has any benefit on Lithium batteries whatever.
Humm interesting facts I think I paid $4 each you are
right about the price they are pricey by some people's standard's

Here is a diagram of Matt's setup.

We are charging and discharging the battery at the same time.


__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 06-21-2016 at 10:27 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 06-21-2016, 10:59 PM
Aaron's Avatar
Aaron Aaron is offline
Co-Founder & Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 11,003
lithium batteries

This kind of small 3.2v lifepo4 battery is safer than the typical lithium batts. https://www.amazon.com/3-2v-LiFePO4-...g=maimounas-20

You can probably find those cheaper, that was just a quick search - but they are generally still super expensive.

One of the primary benefits of using the lithium batts is the ultra low impedance compared to lead acids. We saw this with the big cell phone tower battery banks. Ultra low impedance to a radiant spike allows one to greatly exploit the gains. With one test where Peter charged the big bank with the 10 coiler way back, the battery bank was able to deliver almost 10 times what went into it. That was the single biggest gain I ever saw on a lead acid battery bank.

However, on smaller lead acids, although the impedance is fairly low, it is actually huge compared to the large cell phone tower battery bank and that is why so many people will never see the gain in the battery alone coupled with the fact that most people never have a high enough frequency of charge/discharge cycles.

Paul Babcock has a 24v lifepo4 setup for his SG and he can stairstep them up with real capacity and not just voltage. It is our speculation that it is the low impedance of the lifepo4 batts because of the cell tower bank results. He charges them with spikes and supposedly they don't like spikes but it is amazing how well they respond. Some builders in Energy Science Forum tried the lifepo4's and did not get the results that Babcock did. He is using 24v and I think they're using 12v so not sure how much difference there will be because of that but the resistive loss percentage is less going with higher voltage.
__________________
Sincerely,
Aaron Murakami

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
splitting, positive, advanced, videos, basic, thread, post, energy, study, qualifies, clear, video, learn, concept, verified, foundational, spite, failed, rofl, adepts, called, attempts, point, students, experimenters

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Please consider supporting Energetic Forum with a voluntary monthly subscription.

Choose your voluntary subscription

For one-time donations, please use the below button.


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v1.4.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Shoutbox provided by vBShout v6.2.8 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2007-2015 Copyright - Energetic Forum - All Rights Reserved

Bedini RPX Sideband Generator

Tesla Chargers