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#331
07-13-2017, 07:04 AM
 Turion Platinum Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,677
I'll draw up the charge circuit with part numbers when I get the chance, but here is the way it goes together. The BASIC circuit is without any of the red lines.

The charge circuit adds the red lines. I show the charge circuit positive connected between the boost module and the motor to pick up the positive. I have been thinking about moving that connection to the other side of the motor so that the motor, with its built in off time, controls the pulsing of the coil. Haven't looked at that yet, but it is on my list.

Dave
__________________
"I aim to misbehave" Malcolm Reynolds
"Try Not! Do or do not. There is no 'Try' ". Yoda

Last edited by Turion; 01-15-2018 at 11:03 PM.
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#332
07-13-2017, 07:16 PM
 wayne.ct Silver Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 543
The negative of the output of the boost module

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Turion I'll draw up the charge circuit with part numbers when I get the chance, but here is the way it goes together. The BASIC circuit is without any of the red lines. The charge circuit adds the red lines. I show the charge circuit positive connected between the boost module and the motor to pick up the positive. I have been thinking about moving that connection to the other side of the motor so that the motor, with its built in off time, controls the pulsing of the coil. Haven't looked at that yet, but it is on my list. Dave
In the attached jpg, what does the negative of the output of the boost module connect to, if anything?
__________________
There is a reason why science has been successful and technology is widespread. Don't be afraid to do the math and apply the laws of physics.
#333
07-13-2017, 07:56 PM
 Turion Platinum Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,677
Nothing. The neg input and output are connected together, so you don't connect anything to the neg output.
__________________
"I aim to misbehave" Malcolm Reynolds
"Try Not! Do or do not. There is no 'Try' ". Yoda
#334
07-13-2017, 08:54 PM
 SkyWatcher Gold Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,251
Hi all, thanks turion for sharing.
Hmm, what about connecting the output of the charge circuit (in my case, i will use my stingo charger) to battery 3.
I will be trying this tonight, though i will be using a 12 volt 7 watt led bulb, instead of motor.
peace love light
__________________

#335
07-13-2017, 09:08 PM
 Turion Platinum Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,677
If the charger is connected to battery 3, it will charge faster and kill the potential difference faster. Personally, I want my load between the positives to run as LONG as possible at incredibly LOW cost. That's why I recommended moving battery 3 to a "4th position" once it has charged up in the three battery system and using the charge circuit to charge it further and really top it off. When it moves to the battery 1 position it will be at MAX charge.

I should also mention that if you run the light between the positives you will NOT get the same effect as with a pulse motor. That collapsing coil spike as well as the generated back emf that comes out of a pulse motor and hits battery 3 is a significant part of the "magic" of this circuit.
__________________
"I aim to misbehave" Malcolm Reynolds
"Try Not! Do or do not. There is no 'Try' ". Yoda

Last edited by Turion; 07-13-2017 at 09:11 PM.
#336
07-13-2017, 09:08 PM
 BroMikey Platinum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 5,435
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Turion I'll draw up the charge circuit with part numbers when I get the chance, but here is the way it goes together. The BASIC circuit is without any of the red lines. The charge circuit adds the red lines. I show the charge circuit positive connected between the boost module and the motor to pick up the positive. I have been thinking about moving that connection to the other side of the motor so that the motor, with its built in off time, controls the pulsing of the coil. Haven't looked at that yet, but it is on my list. Dave
Thanks for the picture, I knew I was reverting back to old thinking
with my diagrams. I got to keep this on my mind. Then I will update
my diagram.

__________________

#337
07-13-2017, 09:36 PM
 SkyWatcher Gold Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,251
Ok, thanks turion, i only have 3 - 12 volt lead acid batteries at the moment, so that is why i will connect the output to the 3rd battery.
Then i will use the 24 volt motor i have and connect a prop on it or something, for some useful cooling of me body.
peace love light
__________________

#338
07-13-2017, 11:24 PM
 BroMikey Platinum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 5,435
I am still looking at this diagram. This is how my kind of
boost circuit hooks up and it has a 400 watt ceiling plenty

__________________

#339
07-14-2017, 04:48 AM
 SkyWatcher Gold Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,251
Hi all, oh well, i kind of figured that would be the case, can't use the output from the stingo to charge the 3rd battery, unless i use a separate strand from the multistrand coil.
Turions drawing is correct mikey, you dont need to connect the negative output of the boost converter to anything, probably because it's already connected internally.
I know, because i'm running this 24 volt scooter motor off the positive of my boost converter, into the positive of the 3rd battery.
Will this stock motor give any magic i wonder.
peace love light
__________________

#340
07-14-2017, 07:19 AM
 Turion Platinum Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,677
Stuff

Sky,
A stock motor CAN work, but the EFFICIENCY is the problem. It depends on the motor. The significant part of the pulse motor was the off time, but also the fact that it allowed the BEMF to come out of the motor down the wire to battery 3 in a charge pulse. Lots of stock motors send that BEMF into the unused (at that instant in time) motor windings to dissipate so that it DOESN'T come back out the wires and fight the incoming voltage. The unique thing about running between the positives is it provides another outlet for that created voltage, but if the motor doesn't ALLOW that voltage to come back out, by design, the setup will work, but NOT as efficiently as a pulse motor will work. And believe me, I have probably tried a couple HUNDRED stock motors over the last ten years, at a minimum. I probably have 30 on my shelf right now still waiting to be tried. The more efficient the motor, the more they have figured out a way to keep the BEMF from "assisting" you by coming back out of the motor as a charge pulse. Hope that makes sense.

I don't know if either of you have built John B's Zero force motor, but I've got tell you that I truly believe it is the GREATEST gift John left us. Built correctly (and there are multiple replications out there on YouTube that are correct, including several by John) that motor runs on NO AMPS, almost PURE voltage. There are so many ways that a motor like that can be used.

Think about what is produced when a coil collapses....all that high voltage at NO amps. But the zero force motor NEEDS no amps. Its advantage is that it produces high speed with no amps, and once you get a weight moving at high speed, you have torque. Now my buddy Bob and I (mostly Bob to be honest) have done all kinds of research on the Zero Force motor for the last year because we viewed it as the PERFECT motor to run between the positives and turn a generator (MY generator or ANY generator) If we could figure out a way to increase the torque of the machine, even BETTER, and we have done that. My contribution has always been thinking of things nobody else has thought of, and Bob has the energy and time to see what works, plus bounce his ideas off me. I had to change my phone plan from unlimited data to unlimited TALK and text.

When you combine a motor that runs on pure voltage and hardly ANY amps with a generator that speeds up under load so it NEEDS NO TORQUE, run on the 3 or 4 battery system, what do YOU think the potential is?

NOW think of one of the generator coils, putting out 150 or so volts DC as the "batteries one and two" of the three battery system, and a BANK of batteries as battery 3, with a motor that loves voltage running between them. You are FORCED to put a load on battery 3 because you have TOO MUCH POWER to keep your potential difference where you want it without BIG loads. And all the OTHER coils on your generator are putting out USABLE power.

Every SINGLE thing that we need to make working systems has been given to us. I have working systems because I have taken those pieces and put them together.

Then I have looked at the things that could be improved, like the torque of the Zero Force motor or the reduction of the magnetic lock in the generator, and improved them enough to greatly increase the efficiency. I'm also smart enough to know that all of those things could be improved even MORE.

I will say one last thing about John's stuff. He was warned early on about showing too much and so he built small toy machines to show us principles. When you start building BIG machines, like a 12" Zero Force motor instead of a 4" machine, or a 12" rotor on your generator with 60 pounds of wire on the coils, and BIG, expensive,deep cycle batteries, you SEE things that people who are working with toy machines and 7 1/2 amp hour batteries will NEVER SEE happen. I have stated time and again that the 3 battery system will not work with toy batteries, yet just the other day someone posted on you tube that they had "tested" the system and it does not work. And they used "brand-new" 7 1/2 amp hour batteries. As far as I am concerned, that individual is an idiot and gets EXACTLY what he deserves.

I have 3 banks of 6 volt deep cycle golf cart batteries for my testing of the 3 battery system. Layout attached. At \$150 each that is \$1,800 for batteries.

If you are going to be a SERIOUS researcher into this stuff, I would advise you to FIRST spend the money to get yourself those batteries. Not just so you can see this stuff work correctly, but because ANY system you build will STILL need a place to store the power you produce so that it can be used. Even USED golf cart batteries that are all sulphate up are better than toy batteries. As long as the plates are in good shape, the 3 battery system will restore them to like NEW condition. At a MINIMUM you need 8 batteries, which is what I had until this last week. I was using 250 amp hour batteries (8 of them) as my third group, but finally bit the bullet and bought more deep cycle batteries because I know from experience the difference it makes.
__________________
"I aim to misbehave" Malcolm Reynolds
"Try Not! Do or do not. There is no 'Try' ". Yoda

Last edited by Turion; 01-15-2018 at 11:03 PM.
#341
07-14-2017, 08:52 AM
 BroMikey Platinum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 5,435
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Turion Sky, A stock motor CAN work, but the EFFICIENCY is the problem. I don't know if either of you have built John B's Zero force motor, but I've got tell you that I truly believe it is the GREATEST gift John left us. Built correctly (and there are multiple replications out there on YouTube that are correct, including several by John) that motor runs on NO AMPS, almost PURE voltage. There are so many ways that a motor like that can be used. Every SINGLE thing that we need to make working systems has been given to us. I have working systems because I have taken those pieces and put them together. I will say one last thing about John's stuff. He was warned early on about showing too much and so he built small toy machines to show us principles.

Wow what can i say. Resting from his labors.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by SkyWatcher Turions drawing is correct mikey, you dont need to connect the negative output of the boost converter to anything, probably because it's already connected internally.
Hello Sky

Yes you are right many of them are internally connected unless you
get the bigger ones sometimes like mine that allow for isolated
grounding. Then you have to connect them somewhere.

__________________

#342
07-14-2017, 03:21 PM
 Turion Platinum Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,677

BroMikey,

Just a word of caution. Some D.C. To D.C. Boost modules will NOT work with this setup. We found that early on. It has to do with their internal circuit. That is why we referenced ones that DID work which we found on e-Bay. I don't remember the part number, but I'm sure I could go back and look at my purchase history to find it if you need it. They were only a couple \$\$ each so I bought many of them. I even mistakenly had one order sent to Matt I think. LOL. It has been a while.
__________________
"I aim to misbehave" Malcolm Reynolds
"Try Not! Do or do not. There is no 'Try' ". Yoda
#343
07-14-2017, 08:28 PM
 BroMikey Platinum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 5,435
Think the ones you had posted looked like this but I am not sure
on the voltages. This \$2 unit might work.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/150W-Boost-Converter-DC-to-DC-10-32V-to-12-35V-Step-Up-Voltage-Charger-Module-/192120373402?hash=item2cbb44409a:g:KyMAAOSwax5Yu3V Q

__________________

#344
07-14-2017, 09:38 PM
 Turion Platinum Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,677
Input voltage on that one is 10 volts, and it should work.

This is the one I got. Might be the same one. I didn't look, just copied and pasted from me e-Bay history
1pc 150W DC-DC 10-32V to 12-35V 6A Step Up Voltage Charger Power Boost Converter

I wanted one that put out enough AMPS to run a motor or other devices between the positives, and this one put out 6 amps. If you can find one that does the job and puts out HIGHER amps, the higher the better because your load can use the breathing room.
__________________
"I aim to misbehave" Malcolm Reynolds
"Try Not! Do or do not. There is no 'Try' ". Yoda

Last edited by Turion; 07-14-2017 at 10:59 PM.
#345
07-15-2017, 02:09 AM
 BroMikey Platinum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 5,435
This is the one I bought but you got to hook up the grounds.
Somebody blew one of the smaller one's up so I got this one.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Controlled-400W-Constant-Voltage-Constant-Current-DC-Boost-Converter-US-/292081800462?hash=item44016e950e:g:xxgAAOSwyltZXGC 3

--------------------------------------------------------------

__________________

#346
07-15-2017, 03:57 AM
 SkyWatcher Gold Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,251
Hi all, i figured out a way to do some testing, even though i only have 3 tractor batteries.
I'm using my 400 watt boost converter, run normally from a computer power supply.
Then, I'm using that, at 25 volts output voltage, in place of the 2 primary batteries.
I am then using the stingo charger between the positives, into a tractor battery.
Then, using the output from the stingo, into separate tractor batteries.
At least this way, i can do some testing and measure what the boost converter is using, minus losses.
peace love light
__________________

#347
07-15-2017, 05:12 PM
 SkyWatcher Gold Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,251
Hi all, interesting numbers so far.
Input to boost converter = 11.67 volts at 1.15 amps = 13.42 watts.
Output from boost converter = 25 volts at .49 amps = 12.25 watts.
Output from stingo radiant pulses = 13.8 volts at .29 amps = 4 watts
Total watts out = 16.25 watts
Ratio input/output = 121% output
peace love light
__________________

#348
07-16-2017, 08:43 AM
 BroMikey Platinum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 5,435
Quote:
 Originally Posted by SkyWatcher Hi all, interesting numbers so far. Input to boost converter = 11.67 volts at 1.15 amps = 13.42 watts. Output from boost converter = 25 volts at .49 amps = 12.25 watts. Output from stingo radiant pulses = 13.8 volts at .29 amps = 4 watts Total watts out = 16.25 watts Ratio input/output = 121% output peace love light

great work Sky

Spool update twin gen coil COP 3 and up, build. Costume spools to
fit my winder that are heavy duty. 2" spools 5/8" width. See the
heat swollen ends. See drawing above for construction plans.

A total of 24 spools are in progress for this tiny build. However
learning to wind coils of any size that speed up your rotor under
load is no small thing to me.

__________________

#349
07-18-2017, 07:42 AM
 BroMikey Platinum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 5,435
Spool construction in progress. Refrig parts of low density PE gets
butchered by unruly hole saw hack.

http://flyer.thenetteam.net/3batterygen/spoolconstruct6.jpg

-------------------------------------------------------------------

__________________

#350
07-18-2017, 10:24 AM
 BroMikey Platinum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 5,435
Here are two great examples of non research of acceleration
of motors under a load or which most will add a question mark
at the end of their title.

These guys have no clue about what is going on with a standard
motor or a regular generator that is just like a motor. Not even a small
picture of what they are wondering about.

In the video the guys hook a conventional (big zero) motor to a
conventional generator. What a joke. The 36v motor is running on
4vdc in one of these video's. This is to create and running condition
that is easy to listen to when any changes are made.

In other words we can hear the motor speed up and slow down with
any of the electrical changes being made such as resistors put into
the line.

The question is "WHY DOES THE SYSTEM SPEED UP?" Is this the pot
at the end of the rainbow or a good example of bait and switch?

To understand what happens during these tests we must know how
motors are made and for what frequency and power level. Generators
included.

Motors are designed for one range of frequencies, one amount of
current, a certain voltage where motor magic takes place. This is
the place in the design straight from the factory called OPTIMUM.

In magnet motor and magnet generators that are running in their
optimized band of power/ resonance band means that for the price
of the current and hardware a fair shake is offered in horse power to
power a device.

Same with generators. Running a generator off a motor is a huge
drag. In this video like almost every video on the web the motor
is shown to draw power after it is already connected to a generator
that is free wheeling.

In the video trick, the guys shows an amp reading of 1.55 amps. When
he loads the stepper motor being used as a generator it speeds up. Of
course it does because without the belt and the generator the motor
will run at 750ma so as the stepper acting generator finds it's field
creating a resonance, relief comes.

All this video proves is that he has no understanding of how motors
and generators are designed to run exactly where they are rated.
Motors run as generators in open circuit create a very high voltage
in it's coils and pose lots of drag not being designed in that range
for that purpose.

This is not true research. For this to be true research the experimenter
must be aware of the current draw before the dragging generator coils
are hung around the motors neck.

In these video's the motors will run on half the current shown as with
the free wheeling generator. So in this case 750ma for the motor and
when the generator is added another 750ma. In the video a 1.55amp
or 1550ma draw goes down a few points when loads are connected.

Then the statements are made that they are beating Lenz law. This
is called non research, non thinking folks who haven't got a clue

Further to state the obvious, to beat lenz or get a greater efficiency
from any apparatus before and after measurements must be taken
to make a determination.

In these video's the guys are thinking they might have hit that pot
of gold while they are only wasting more power.

----------------------------------------------------------------

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__________________

Last edited by BroMikey; 07-18-2017 at 10:29 AM.
#351
07-18-2017, 03:16 PM
 Turion Platinum Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,677
Thoughts

Here is how I look at it.
1. If I have a motor that is free wheeling and under no load, it will consume a certain number of watts per hour of operation.

2. If I place a rotor with magnets on the motor shaft, I have created a load, which will increase the watts consumed per hour. No way to get around that.

3. If I place a coil with an iron, ferrite or metglass core near the rotating magnets, an additional load is placed on the motor because of magnetic drag and more watts are consumed.

4. If the coil is connected to a load, more watts are consumed

As far as I know, there is no way to avoid the additional watts consumed in 1-2 above, so I will only address 3 and 4.

If there is a watts per hour consumption of the motor in number 3, and you can change the core material or the physical configuration of the machine to reduce the watts consumed per hour without decreasing the output of the generator coil, that is significant to me.

If you can take the coil you have in number four, remove the wire, and rewind it so that rather than increasing the watts per hour consumed when the coil is put under load, it reduces the watts consumed per hour by the motor, without decreasing the output of the generator coil, THAT is significant to me.

And always remember, there is going to be a motor speed that is MOST efficient at producing speed and torque for the specific load you have.

I know there are folks out there who DO NOT agree with this view of things, and I can honestly say I do not understand WHY. I would really like to know and understand why the believe I am off on the wrong track here. I would really LIKE to understand their thinking because they could be entirely correct and I could be completely WRONG. But I want to have an intelligent conversation about it, not be given hints and secret clues.

I can significantly reduce the magnetic drag and get the motor to speed up when the coils are under load, so I feel like I am headed in the right direction.
__________________
"I aim to misbehave" Malcolm Reynolds
"Try Not! Do or do not. There is no 'Try' ". Yoda

Last edited by Turion; 07-18-2017 at 03:18 PM.
#352
07-18-2017, 08:53 PM
 BroMikey Platinum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 5,435
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Turion ........ remove the wire, and rewind it so that rather than increasing the watts per hour consumed when the coil is put under load, it reduces the watts consumed per hour by the motor, without decreasing the output of the generator coil, THAT is significant to me. ........... But I want to have an intelligent conversation about it, not be given hints and secret clues.
"Good luck with that" finding someone that can find their head with
both hands, better yet lead the best you can and they will come
out of their programmed coma in time.

When I strike up these conversations, I do it with a mix of the devils
advocate, sarcastic slapstick with bludgeon revenge on the world of
nerds who think they are leading edge. I am glad they try.

They will all come running like the hounds of Baskerville, of course
trying to prove the data wrong, it's that "teacher told me" stuff (yawn)

Once I get going by cannon balling the conversation I become submersed.

At first major thoughts escape me but after a few talks I remember what
what I was going to say. What you have laid out for the group for
investigative practices is good stuff basic rule of thumb for a thinking
person. I guess the rest are not thinking.

Now shocking results just came in. Nothing to do with reading a book,
copy the answers so you pass, that is called cheating yourself. You got
to get down here where we live with dirty hands. Yes rewind the coils
right? And rewind and rewind, guess what I just found out?

You won't find this in a book that I am aware of either.

So I went away from standard 100-200 foot coils for generating up to
720 feet. Because it is a multifilar winding, I can rewire the ends any
way I like.

1) The motor is the prime mover and draws X amount just like Turion Man
has explained.

2) With the addition of the weight of the rotor and magnet a greater
amount of power is added to the initial.

3) that is 1+1=2 for those having trouble following me

4) Next are the coils being brought close to the rotating magnet with
their iron cores.

5) Going slow that is 1+1+1=3 or motor amps (1) motor and rotor
amps(1)and motor and rotor and gencoil amps (1) each a new
measurement.

Now here is the place I have been trying to get. I would expect all of
the above, that is, when I place my coil up to the rotating rotor magnets
for the power draw to increase even without loading the coil just a static
or idling condition.

There is 720 feet on this coil. What surprised me is that without a load
the system can see inside the coil when I change wiring configurations.
For example if I put the coil setting of 3 in series and 2 in parallel WITH
NO LOAD the system KNOWS what I have done.

WOW. The same amount or wire and the everything else the system
current draw will change with mere wiring patterns. For example if
I connect all of the 120 foot wire coils in parallel in the static condition
of no load the amp draw skyrockets. The iron core is one force to
consider and I will try to install an empty core on the system rotor to
see what the increases will be without wire.

So now I connect the six 120 foot winding in series IN THE STATIC
condition or NO LOAD. The system knows what I have done, it sees
inside the coils and acts accordingly.

In my case the motor cost me 1 amp to 1.2 amps running all by itself.
Adding the rotor and running at the same 14.75vdc the current goes
from 1.2amps on up to 2 amps.

Now when I add a coil, in the STATIC NO LOAD condition in parallel, the
system responds and my draw goes up to 4 amps total.

When I take the same coils of wire, same mass and connect in series
the additional drain only goes up 300 ma making my draw 2.3 amps

Like you said Dave, I find this characteristics significant.

So the system sees what winding patterns I use without ever connecting
a load. Why does it act this way? What makes the coil in series less
intrusive on the prime mover than the parallel coil.

The answer is based in the delay of response to current however small,
the parallel coils if they could be measured should show a greater
magnetic field around them even in the static condition.

Delaying the timing response of current to rotating magnets is the right
direction to go in and that is what the series connection does whether
we understand it or can explain it makes no never mind.

So I need more feet to delay even more. I have not powered anything.
I have a motor, a rotor and a coil that responds this way without loading.

I am going slow on purpose so I don't get confused in the clutter of endless
data variables. The point is that all I have done is play with the length of
wire to understand the systems response.

The system is telling me that the more wire I add, the less drag on the
system will be realized. Not rocket science.

Thanks Turion, I can't wait to see your coming genius on the 2 coil
life long ambitions.
__________________

Last edited by BroMikey; 07-18-2017 at 11:07 PM.
#353
07-24-2017, 09:42 PM
 moflint Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 32
Turion,
Thanks for sharing all this VERY good stuff.
I'm one of those idiots still using 7.2ah batts, lol, but I'm just about to invest in proper 100ah deep cycles. Once I have these new batts do they need "conditioning" as in, completely drained till the bulb goes out, then pulse charged, and repeat x10?
Thanks,
Mark
__________________

#354
07-24-2017, 10:52 PM
 Turion Platinum Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,677
Mark,
No. Draining them and pulse charging them is going to knock the sulfation off the plates so eventually they will hold more and last longer, but you don't need to spend the time doing that.

And please understand, I have no problem with the folks who try running on the potential difference using small batteries to see if you can actually do it or not. Everybody has to get their feet wet and not everyone jumps in the deep end first. The bone of contention I have is with the folks that go on YouTube to make videos to prove this DOESN'T work and are running loads far in excess of the C-20 discharge rate of the batteries and are using small batteries (that have incredible resistance to being charged). There is literally NO margin for error when you are working with small systems trying to do this stuff and those people are dead in the water before they even START.

Dave
__________________
"I aim to misbehave" Malcolm Reynolds
"Try Not! Do or do not. There is no 'Try' ". Yoda

Last edited by Turion; 07-25-2017 at 03:07 PM.
#355
07-25-2017, 05:14 AM
 BroMikey Platinum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 5,435
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Turion The bone of contention I have is with the folks that go on YouTube to make videos to prove this DOESN,T work and are running loads far in excess of the C-20 discharge rate of the batteries and are using small batteries that have incredible resistance to being charged. There is literally NO margin for error when you are working with small systems trying to do this stuff and those people are dead in the water before they even START.

Here is another brainstorm I picked up somewhere. Also people
trying to reinvent all of the wheels. Save yourselves the trouble and
be a hero for you first.

We need some Indians and not all Chiefs, most of you have no idea
how to get any extra watts out of any device so go ahead an admit it
or show us one.

__________________

#356
07-25-2017, 07:16 AM
 moflint Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 32
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Turion Mark, No. Draining them and pulse charging them is going to knock the sulfation off the plates so eventually they will hold more and last longer, but you don't need to spend the time doing that. And please understand, I have no problem with the folks who try running on the potential difference using small batteries to see if you can actually do it or not. Everybody has to get their feet wet and not everyone jumps in the deep end first. The bone of contention I have is with the folks that go on YouTube to make videos to prove this DOESN,T work and are running loads far in excess of the C-20 discharge rate of the batteries and are using small batteries that have incredible resistance to being charged. There is literally NO margin for error when you are working with small systems trying to do this stuff and those people are dead in the water before they even START. Dave
Thanks - understood. I certainly know what you mean about zero margin for error with the small batts. I have seen a total gain by using the 3-batt system and my stingo circuit, but only a small margin, like a few 100ths of a volt after 4 hours of rest of the batts. I expect that to increase with bigger batts. Cheers.
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#357
07-25-2017, 08:08 AM
 BroMikey Platinum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 5,435
Quote:
 Originally Posted by moflint I have seen a total gain by using the 3-batt system and my stingo circuit, but only a small margin, like a few 100ths of a volt after 4 hours of rest of the batts.

Doesn't sound very good a few hundredths of a volt when we are
talking about extending the run times.

Here let me start fresh, run a pulsing or switch mode inverter on a
battery and count the joules up. Next recharge your batteries.

Now run between the positives as shown in the diagram BUT, BUT
never exceed the C20 rate. Now you have done it already, you have
extended the run time because you have negated 99 percent of the
resistance losses than when batteries are drained improperly.

Next go back to your conventional setup with just an inverter from
a battery pack and run at the C20 rate as you were instructed. Unless
you add that in I will assume you need to be rereading what is being
said here.

Okay so if you or anyone else is going to throw out a few loose
statements, be sure you will asked if you followed procedure. A
return answer of "YUP" is inconclusive.

Now run the tests in this way as shown never going beyond the
batteries rated C20 charge and discharge curves. Withe your 3ah
battery you will only be able to discharge 65 percent of it's total
power so as not to destroy it. So that is a 2ah battery in practical
terms.

Unless you understand your batteries and the systematic approach
required to follow these instruction, you will be lost and fail as you
have been doing. Or maybe you think so.

Now 2ah = 2000mah divided by 20 hours means your batteries
can deliver 100ma to the inverter/charger/booster/charger/whatever
it is you have. Also you must create and maintain a potential difference
in voltage that will send a current thru the inverter to the charge bank
not exceeding 100ma.

You may need very small circuit such as a 99 percent efficient car
charger that is the size of your thumb to stay in range of such a small
ma rating and remember you are going to need half of that to run
your supervisory section. So find out how much it eats and give that
as a freebee into your calculation.

Actually I just showed you that even with your 65 percent charger
stingo charger circuit you are getting more than normal. This is why
you get fooled, because you don't realize how inefficient such a small
system is when half of the minuet amount of power is lost to LED's
or resistors from a poorly engineered toys.

To make the test properly that is, or give it up. This thread is about
splitting the positive using properly rated devises and not exceeding
the C20 rates. The stinkgo or other circuits I am sure are good for
something like learning to built boosters.

Stick to protocol and if not that is fine too, just don't try to compare
what is being shown here with your concoctions. Give the rates of
discharge or other details that gives us an idea that you understand
your batteries and circuits you are using.

The answer is yes, you are getting the extra but don't realize that
the figure you are getting is way higher because you have not counted
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Last edited by BroMikey; 07-25-2017 at 08:23 AM.
#358
07-25-2017, 08:41 AM
 moflint Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 32
Quote:
 Originally Posted by BroMikey The answer is yes, you are getting the extra but don't realize that the figure you are getting is way higher because you have not counted your inefficiency losses.
Yes - I have proved the split-positive system works, at least to myself, now I have to improve on efficiencies such as swapping to bigger batteries, thicker cables etc.

Thanks for all the great stuff you've shared in this thread.

Mark
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#359
07-25-2017, 09:20 AM
 BroMikey Platinum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 5,435
Quote:
 Originally Posted by moflint Yes - I have proved the split-positive system works, at least to myself, now I have to improve on efficiencies such as swapping to bigger batteries, thicker cables etc. Thanks for all the great stuff you've shared in this thread. Mark
You are very welcome Mark. You are a winner. The info comes directly
from certain men who have been in the field for decades. I am just
a parrot most of the time. Sometimes I verify good results also.

A happy parrot I might add. Happy to have such great men to follow.

Keep us in the loop on your progress
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#360
07-25-2017, 09:54 AM
 moflint Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 32
Quote:
 Originally Posted by BroMikey You are very welcome Mark. You are a winner. The info comes directly from certain men who have been in the field for decades. I am just a parrot most of the time. Sometimes I verify good results also. A happy parrot I might add. Happy to have such great men to follow. Keep us in the loop on your progress
Thanks BroMikey. We all stand on the shoulders of those who came before us, who also stood on the shoulders of their predecessors. The greatest gift we have is to discern the truth when we see it, and go where it leads.
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