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-   -   Splitting The Positive (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/20486-splitting-positive.html)

BroMikey 07-18-2017 10:24 AM

Here are two great examples of non research of acceleration
of motors under a load or which most will add a question mark
at the end of their title.

These guys have no clue about what is going on with a standard
motor or a regular generator that is just like a motor. Not even a small
picture of what they are wondering about.

In the video the guys hook a conventional (big zero) motor to a
conventional generator. What a joke. The 36v motor is running on
4vdc in one of these video's. This is to create and running condition
that is easy to listen to when any changes are made.

In other words we can hear the motor speed up and slow down with
any of the electrical changes being made such as resistors put into
the line.

The question is "WHY DOES THE SYSTEM SPEED UP?" Is this the pot
at the end of the rainbow or a good example of bait and switch?

To understand what happens during these tests we must know how
motors are made and for what frequency and power level. Generators
included.

Motors are designed for one range of frequencies, one amount of
current, a certain voltage where motor magic takes place. This is
the place in the design straight from the factory called OPTIMUM.

In magnet motor and magnet generators that are running in their
optimized band of power/ resonance band means that for the price
of the current and hardware a fair shake is offered in horse power to
power a device.

Same with generators. Running a generator off a motor is a huge
drag. In this video like almost every video on the web the motor
is shown to draw power after it is already connected to a generator
that is free wheeling.

In the video trick, the guys shows an amp reading of 1.55 amps. When
he loads the stepper motor being used as a generator it speeds up. Of
course it does because without the belt and the generator the motor
will run at 750ma so as the stepper acting generator finds it's field
creating a resonance, relief comes.

All this video proves is that he has no understanding of how motors
and generators are designed to run exactly where they are rated.
Motors run as generators in open circuit create a very high voltage
in it's coils and pose lots of drag not being designed in that range
for that purpose.

This is not true research. For this to be true research the experimenter
must be aware of the current draw before the dragging generator coils
are hung around the motors neck.

In these video's the motors will run on half the current shown as with
the free wheeling generator. So in this case 750ma for the motor and
when the generator is added another 750ma. In the video a 1.55amp
or 1550ma draw goes down a few points when loads are connected.

Then the statements are made that they are beating Lenz law. This
is called non research, non thinking folks who haven't got a clue
about any of it.

Further to state the obvious, to beat lenz or get a greater efficiency
from any apparatus before and after measurements must be taken
to make a determination.

In these video's the guys are thinking they might have hit that pot
of gold while they are only wasting more power.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SxmlKs9C8E

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ccGjGw7OB8

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https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_SxmlKs9C8E/hqdefault.jpg

BroMikey 07-18-2017 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turion (Post 302851)
........ remove the wire, and rewind it so that
rather than increasing the watts per hour consumed when the coil is
put under load, it reduces the watts consumed per hour by the motor,
without decreasing the output of the generator coil, THAT is significant
to me.

........... But I want to have an intelligent conversation about it, not be
given hints and secret clues.

"Good luck with that" finding someone that can find their head with
both hands, better yet lead the best you can and they will come
out of their programmed coma in time.


When I strike up these conversations, I do it with a mix of the devils
advocate, sarcastic slapstick with bludgeon revenge on the world of
nerds who think they are leading edge. I am glad they try.:yahoo:

They will all come running like the hounds of Baskerville, of course
trying to prove the data wrong, it's that "teacher told me" stuff (yawn)

Once I get going by cannon balling the conversation I become submersed.

At first major thoughts escape me but after a few talks I remember what
what I was going to say. What you have laid out for the group for
investigative practices is good stuff basic rule of thumb for a thinking
person. I guess the rest are not thinking.

Now shocking results just came in. Nothing to do with reading a book,
copy the answers so you pass, that is called cheating yourself. You got
to get down here where we live with dirty hands. Yes rewind the coils
right? And rewind and rewind, guess what I just found out?

You won't find this in a book that I am aware of either.

So I went away from standard 100-200 foot coils for generating up to
720 feet. Because it is a multifilar winding, I can rewire the ends any
way I like.

1) The motor is the prime mover and draws X amount just like Turion Man
has explained.

2) With the addition of the weight of the rotor and magnet a greater
amount of power is added to the initial.

3) that is 1+1=2 for those having trouble following me

4) Next are the coils being brought close to the rotating magnet with
their iron cores.

5) Going slow that is 1+1+1=3 or motor amps (1) motor and rotor
amps(1)and motor and rotor and gencoil amps (1) each a new
measurement.

Now here is the place I have been trying to get. I would expect all of
the above, that is, when I place my coil up to the rotating rotor magnets
for the power draw to increase even without loading the coil just a static
or idling condition.

There is 720 feet on this coil. What surprised me is that without a load
the system can see inside the coil when I change wiring configurations.
For example if I put the coil setting of 3 in series and 2 in parallel WITH
NO LOAD the system KNOWS what I have done.

WOW. The same amount or wire and the everything else the system
current draw will change with mere wiring patterns. For example if
I connect all of the 120 foot wire coils in parallel in the static condition
of no load the amp draw skyrockets. The iron core is one force to
consider and I will try to install an empty core on the system rotor to
see what the increases will be without wire.

So now I connect the six 120 foot winding in series IN THE STATIC
condition or NO LOAD. The system knows what I have done, it sees
inside the coils and acts accordingly.

In my case the motor cost me 1 amp to 1.2 amps running all by itself.
Adding the rotor and running at the same 14.75vdc the current goes
from 1.2amps on up to 2 amps.

Now when I add a coil, in the STATIC NO LOAD condition in parallel, the
system responds and my draw goes up to 4 amps total.

When I take the same coils of wire, same mass and connect in series
the additional drain only goes up 300 ma making my draw 2.3 amps :thumbsup:

Like you said Dave, I find this characteristics significant.

So the system sees what winding patterns I use without ever connecting
a load. Why does it act this way? What makes the coil in series less
intrusive on the prime mover than the parallel coil.

The answer is based in the delay of response to current however small,
the parallel coils if they could be measured should show a greater
magnetic field around them even in the static condition.

Delaying the timing response of current to rotating magnets is the right
direction to go in and that is what the series connection does whether
we understand it or can explain it makes no never mind.

So I need more feet to delay even more. I have not powered anything.
I have a motor, a rotor and a coil that responds this way without loading.

I am going slow on purpose so I don't get confused in the clutter of endless
data variables. The point is that all I have done is play with the length of
wire to understand the systems response.

The system is telling me that the more wire I add, the less drag on the
system will be realized. Not rocket science.:thumbsup:

Thanks Turion, I can't wait to see your coming genius on the 2 coil
beginner setup, well your beginnings. Your beginnings are someone's
life long ambitions.

moflint 07-24-2017 09:42 PM

Turion,
Thanks for sharing all this VERY good stuff.
I'm one of those idiots still using 7.2ah batts, lol, but I'm just about to invest in proper 100ah deep cycles. Once I have these new batts do they need "conditioning" as in, completely drained till the bulb goes out, then pulse charged, and repeat x10?
Thanks,
Mark

BroMikey 07-25-2017 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turion (Post 303065)
The bone of contention I have is with the folks that go on YouTube
to make videos to prove this DOESN,T work and are running loads far
in excess of the C-20 discharge rate of the batteries and are using
small batteries that have incredible resistance to being charged.

There is literally NO margin for error when you are working with small
systems trying to do this stuff and those people are dead in the
water before they even START.


Here is another brainstorm I picked up somewhere. Also people
need to follow a seasoned leader instead of wandering around aimlessly
trying to reinvent all of the wheels. Save yourselves the trouble and
be a hero for you first.

We need some Indians and not all Chiefs, most of you have no idea
how to get any extra watts out of any device so go ahead an admit it
or show us one.


http://flyer.thenetteam.net/3battery...rboostmod1.jpg

moflint 07-25-2017 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turion (Post 303065)
Mark,
No. Draining them and pulse charging them is going to knock the sulfation off the plates so eventually they will hold more and last longer, but you don't need to spend the time doing that.

And please understand, I have no problem with the folks who try running on the potential difference using small batteries to see if you can actually do it or not. Everybody has to get their feet wet and not everyone jumps in the deep end first. The bone of contention I have is with the folks that go on YouTube to make videos to prove this DOESN,T work and are running loads far in excess of the C-20 discharge rate of the batteries and are using small batteries that have incredible resistance to being charged. There is literally NO margin for error when you are working with small systems trying to do this stuff and those people are dead in the water before they even START.

Dave

Thanks - understood. I certainly know what you mean about zero margin for error with the small batts. I have seen a total gain by using the 3-batt system and my stingo circuit, but only a small margin, like a few 100ths of a volt after 4 hours of rest of the batts. I expect that to increase with bigger batts. Cheers.

BroMikey 07-25-2017 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moflint (Post 303075)
I have seen a total gain by using the
3-batt system and my stingo circuit, but only a small margin, like a
few 100ths of a volt after 4 hours of rest of the batts.



Doesn't sound very good a few hundredths of a volt when we are
talking about extending the run times.

Here let me start fresh, run a pulsing or switch mode inverter on a
battery and count the joules up. Next recharge your batteries.

Now run between the positives as shown in the diagram BUT, BUT
never exceed the C20 rate. Now you have done it already, you have
extended the run time because you have negated 99 percent of the
resistance losses than when batteries are drained improperly.

Next go back to your conventional setup with just an inverter from
a battery pack and run at the C20 rate as you were instructed. Unless
you add that in I will assume you need to be rereading what is being
said here.

Okay so if you or anyone else is going to throw out a few loose
statements, be sure you will asked if you followed procedure. A
return answer of "YUP" is inconclusive.

Now run the tests in this way as shown never going beyond the
batteries rated C20 charge and discharge curves. Withe your 3ah
battery you will only be able to discharge 65 percent of it's total
power so as not to destroy it. So that is a 2ah battery in practical
terms.

Unless you understand your batteries and the systematic approach
required to follow these instruction, you will be lost and fail as you
have been doing. Or maybe you think so.

Now 2ah = 2000mah divided by 20 hours means your batteries
can deliver 100ma to the inverter/charger/booster/charger/whatever
it is you have. Also you must create and maintain a potential difference
in voltage that will send a current thru the inverter to the charge bank
not exceeding 100ma.

You may need very small circuit such as a 99 percent efficient car
charger that is the size of your thumb to stay in range of such a small
ma rating and remember you are going to need half of that to run
your supervisory section. So find out how much it eats and give that
as a freebee into your calculation.

Actually I just showed you that even with your 65 percent charger
stingo charger circuit you are getting more than normal. This is why
you get fooled, because you don't realize how inefficient such a small
system is when half of the minuet amount of power is lost to LED's
or resistors from a poorly engineered toys.

To make the test properly that is, or give it up. This thread is about
splitting the positive using properly rated devises and not exceeding
the C20 rates. The stinkgo or other circuits I am sure are good for
something like learning to built boosters.

Stick to protocol and if not that is fine too, just don't try to compare
what is being shown here with your concoctions. Give the rates of
discharge or other details that gives us an idea that you understand
your batteries and circuits you are using.

The answer is yes, you are getting the extra but don't realize that
the figure you are getting is way higher because you have not counted
your inefficiency losses.

moflint 07-25-2017 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroMikey (Post 303076)


The answer is yes, you are getting the extra but don't realize that
the figure you are getting is way higher because you have not counted
your inefficiency losses.

Yes - I have proved the split-positive system works, at least to myself, now I have to improve on efficiencies such as swapping to bigger batteries, thicker cables etc.

Thanks for all the great stuff you've shared in this thread.

Mark

BroMikey 07-25-2017 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moflint (Post 303078)
Yes - I have proved the split-positive system works, at least to myself, now I have to improve on efficiencies such as swapping to bigger batteries, thicker cables etc.

Thanks for all the great stuff you've shared in this thread.

Mark

You are very welcome Mark. You are a winner. The info comes directly
from certain men who have been in the field for decades. I am just
a parrot most of the time. Sometimes I verify good results also.

A happy parrot I might add. Happy to have such great men to follow.

Keep us in the loop on your progress

moflint 07-25-2017 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroMikey (Post 303079)
You are very welcome Mark. You are a winner. The info comes directly
from certain men who have been in the field for decades. I am just
a parrot most of the time. Sometimes I verify good results also.

A happy parrot I might add. Happy to have such great men to follow.

Keep us in the loop on your progress

Thanks BroMikey. We all stand on the shoulders of those who came before us, who also stood on the shoulders of their predecessors. The greatest gift we have is to discern the truth when we see it, and go where it leads.

moflint 07-25-2017 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turion (Post 303086)
moflint,
Are you running much of a load on the 3 battery system? It really is not designed to "gain" anything, simply to run the load for 'free." Not even with BIG batteries. Just the bigger the batteries and the more amp hours you have to work with, the larger the load you can run. But NEVER any real gains. Just maintains steady.

No - I did not run a load at all. I ran a (modified) dual stingo circuit for about 45mins, drawing aprox 2amp at 12v (24v to 12v split positive). I measured the total battery voltage before the run, and had not used the batteries for about 24 hours prior to that. After the run I disconnected all leads and let the batts sit for 4 hours. At this point there was a slight gain in the total batts. These are little 7.2ah batts, rather abused! 6 batts: 2 x 12 for 24v, 2 x 12 for 12v, and 2 x 12v for 12v being pulsed by the stingo.

It's fairly pointless I know, no load, no point! But at least it demonstrated to me that a gain occurred PLUS the recycled energy added to it made the whole system slightly more than 100% efficient. There are real losses in charging batteries (especially mine!) and running that circuit at 2amps for 45 mins. I am sure the gain would have been greater with better batteries.

This test was a few months ago. I've been concentrating on a small Adam's motor since then because I think a motor holds more promise due to the extra power on the shaft. I have not investigated your scooter motor yet as I've only just found this thread - but I'll take a good look over the next few days.

Thanks for sharing your hard earned experience!

Mark.

moflint 07-26-2017 12:41 AM

I will take a look at the modified scooter motor. I'm interested to see how the timing is handled. On my dual pole motor I've tried both hall sensor, and trigger coil setups. I believe the trigger coil gives a more "negative" spike than the hall sensor, but not sure which, if any, is better for batteries in the long term.

moflint 07-26-2017 03:42 AM

Well, I kinda hope you stick around and do the vid, lol. But everyone needs some downtime :-)

moflint 07-27-2017 09:46 PM

Correction
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by moflint (Post 303090)
No - I did not run a load at all. I ran a (modified) dual stingo circuit for about 45mins, drawing aprox 2amp at 12v (24v to 12v split positive). I measured the total battery voltage before the run, and had not used the batteries for about 24 hours prior to that. After the run I disconnected all leads and let the batts sit for 4 hours. At this point there was a slight gain in the total batts. These are little 7.2ah batts, rather abused! 6 batts: 2 x 12 for 24v, 2 x 12 for 12v, and 2 x 12v for 12v being pulsed by the stingo.

It's fairly pointless I know, no load, no point! But at least it demonstrated to me that a gain occurred PLUS the recycled energy added to it made the whole system slightly more than 100% efficient. There are real losses in charging batteries (especially mine!) and running that circuit at 2amps for 45 mins. I am sure the gain would have been greater with better batteries.

This test was a few months ago. I've been concentrating on a small Adam's motor since then because I think a motor holds more promise due to the extra power on the shaft. I have not investigated your scooter motor yet as I've only just found this thread - but I'll take a good look over the next few days.

Thanks for sharing your hard earned experience!

Mark.

I realised that I'm using a slightly different "3 battery system": I am splitting the positive with a common negative across 2 batts (or batt BANKS) but then the coil collapse/switch event pulse is going to a 3rd bank. This is what I did with my test when there was a slight gain in the batts - however the only load was the actual pulser (stingo) circuit. Here is a diagram attached.

BroMikey 07-28-2017 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moflint (Post 303143)
I realised that I'm using a slightly different "3 battery system": I am splitting the positive with a common negative across 2 batts (or batt BANKS) but then the coil collapse/switch event pulse is going to a 3rd bank. This is what I did with my test when there was a slight gain in the batts - however the only load was the actual pulser (stingo) circuit. Here is a diagram attached.

Humm...:thinking: You got me on that one, better let an experienced
professional take your example into consideration. I don't comment
unless I can be sure I would be telling you correctly.

Thanks and keep us up to date. Turion will chime in on his handheld I
am sure, he is rich.
:blowout:

moflint 07-28-2017 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turion (Post 303155)
Hard for me to say, since I do not know what the "stingo" circuit looks like. So hard from to tell how it fits in. If it is a simple bifilar coil charge circuit, I'm not sure what is used as a pulse, or where that is in the circuit. We have been discussing, and BroMikey posted a schematic for running either a motor or an inverter between the positives with a charge circuit in parallel that has its output going to a third set of batteries. I know that works, and I would say that if you are using a charge circuit that pulses a coil between the positives and takes the output of a bifilar coil to a third battery bank, you use SO LITTLE AMPS with a circuit like that, that the battery can recover on its own, and the coil collapse of the primary charges one group of batteries while the voltage induced in the second wire charges the third set of batteries. It proves the point, but once you increase the size of the coils to get useful work, you will probably pull too many amps out of the batteries. Once again, it is the small batteries with high resistance that are going to be the issue.

Again, I don't know how the whole circuit is put together or what parts are in the stingo circuit, so I'm just guessing. Since it appears you are doing something a little different, I would advise you to take careful notes and if it WORKS, don't FIX IT!

I posted the diagram not as a recommendation but just to clarify what I did to avoid any confusion with the "standard" config here. And to confirm splitting the positive is actually very awesome! I didn't cycle any of the battery positions and I doubt it would have made a working system as I had no dc boosters in it to balance charging for cycling round. I might resurrect this experiment now I have the dc booster info, but I'm pursuing the motor route because I think that motors offer an extra source through the permanent magnets and easier to multiply out by adding more litzed windings to the coils. I've some mods to make to my motor and will post results when I'm back testing. Cheers.

BroMikey 07-30-2017 05:51 AM

Winding machine refinements. HDPE bushing and mini washers
for shimming. Two type of spools are shown. The large case of
200 spools was only $20 some dollars TO THE DOOR. That is what
I call a deal.

The small spools worked and I got 40 of them for really really fine wire.

Deburirng and polishing of spools for 24 spools was done today, this
stuff takes time. An additional 24 disks were cut and some got thru
the finishing process and some not.

I made a pipe inside a pipe washer cutting device for the HDPE rings
shown in the picture. The two pipes can be used together or separately
where you strike the end putting the soft material against paneling.

Finding hdpe washers is hard and the price plus wait time caused me to
make my own in an hour.

I still have a batch of shaft collars to order plus washers as the end is
in sight to be set up to wind coils. Never done it and getting time to
put your mind to the job can be pressing for a beginner.

The heavy duty spools are twice the weight of the tiny ones at
3.120' X -3/4". Three forms of washering create excellent stability
as well as having a free turning yet a tension adjustable format.

These larger spools will allow me to hold up to 150feet of 22awg wire,
my educated guess. This way i won't have to go thru this all over again
every time I change AWG (Wire size) and since Turion said he was
doing some winding this week using a 23awg wire I felt like I should be
about right with this tooling.

Each empty spool weights 14 grams and full 75 grams, so 60 grams
of copper wire or 2-1/8 OZ multiplied by 24 strands =

60g X 24 = 1440 grams per finished coil on a "C" core of laminated iron.

28 grams per oz so 1440 divided by 28 = +51 OZ or divide 16 =

51oz / 16 = 3.2 pounds of copper on core material. One reason coils
must be long is to produce a delay at low RPM's requires it. Back yard
inventors do not have all of the latest CNC equipment capable of
running 10,000 rpm's not to mention the engineering to keep a magnet
in the rotor at those speeds.

I will be happy to get results during this first try at 1000-1500 RPM's
this way no special bearings or super balancing, out of my realm of
not only finances but ability to tool up is needed.





http://flyer.thenetteam.net/3batterygen/200spools1.jpg


http://flyer.thenetteam.net/3batterygen/200spools2.jpg


http://flyer.thenetteam.net/3batterygen/200spools4.jpg


http://flyer.thenetteam.net/3batterygen/200spools5.jpg


http://flyer.thenetteam.net/3batterygen/200spools6.jpg


http://flyer.thenetteam.net/3batterygen/200spools7.jpg


http://flyer.thenetteam.net/3batterygen/200spools8.jpg




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BroMikey 08-06-2017 11:35 PM

Winding table extensions.

Today I am setting up my winder better and wanted to share my
trampoline pipe design.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBuw4v3Kzxc


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http://flyer.thenetteam.net/3battery...ngmachine4.jpg

BroMikey 08-07-2017 07:25 AM

Multifilar winder table update finished

What an awesome day it was, I work outside and the temp was mild.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTPvCC5V7XY

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http://flyer.thenetteam.net/images/14AWG4PowerA.jpg

BroMikey 08-13-2017 06:16 AM

WINDER CONTROLS

A video to show my winder process controls. It takes time and
money to build machinery, you can't just wake up one day and say
today I am going to do experimental research without tools.

However many have ordered their coil built by a job shop, either
way it has to be done in order to proceed. I like my way best
because now I can wind my own coils without waiting weeks of
delay and thousands of dollars for setup.:thumbsup:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9Fa140DeLA

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http://flyer.thenetteam.net/3battery...ercontrols.jpg

BroMikey 08-13-2017 07:01 PM

Hey that is an idea, thanks Dave

I will make a new video soon to show you my new system, come what
may. Got try something, right? But once it is done, look out here come
the coils.

I have been finding out what you have explained the hard way. One spool
drags the other forward no matter how hard I tried, like making sure
plenty of washers were in between? Or who knows what I thought, right:p

Anyway it took me all of about 10 minutes to figure that one out when my
wire balled up and spit out a wad some big it looked like spaghetti dinner.:D

Easy come easy go.;) This why I had been using that second hand
rewound wire knowing anomalies would occur. Before long I had ordered
collars to put in between each spool that have a thin series of metal and
HDPE.

It really works good now. I didn't like the spacing so I went to these.

These are rubber grommets instead that require a slight amount of force
to install. Shaft size .0375 or 9.5mm then the grommet is 8mm or 5/16.

It is much better for spacing. Gonna show ya soon and the serious
pal's who will come behind me and surpass.:thumbsup:


This rubber grommet is not the exact dimension but you get the idea.

The metal is to wide to suit me so my grommets are half as thick.

My collars are 1/2" wide with set screw and my grommets are 6mm wide.





https://static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/..._AW01?$mdmain$


https://static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/..._AS01?$mdmain$

citfta 08-14-2017 12:11 AM

A simple solution I found if only winding two wires is to put the spools on the rod with the wire coming off opposite of each other. In other words one spool has the wire coming off the top and the other spool has the wire coming off the bottom. This causes the two spools to rotate in opposite directions and with them touching they each cause the other to keep tension on each other. I haven't tried that with more than two spools but I think it would work with more than two as long as each one turns the opposite direction of the ones next to it.

I use the same wheel measuring device to measure my wire except I mounted some small clear plastic tubing on the board supporting the wheel to guide the wires onto and off of the wheel.

Carroll

BroMikey 08-14-2017 01:52 AM

Lots of good stuff there guys thanks I will think about this.:thumbsup:

BroMikey 08-14-2017 10:02 AM

You are correcting my inaccurate thinking, this is important. I jumped
to conclusions from your winding setup, since it did not show room
for 24 -60 spools I assumed you no longer needed that many. But
after your clarification about how you need +3 volts for charging
batteries I see now why that you need your coils to be adjustable.

But the biggest mystery (I am sure agree) is that the coils MUST be
series connected to work. In other words like Tesla pointed out there
must be this bifilar, trifilar, quadfilar, and so on for our coils to properly
operate.

Even with years of refinements Thane still uses a bifilar coil in his demo's.

Others who use a single wire on youtube show that speeding up under
load is possible but none of them have any serious inventions and probably
are just beginners with a ball of wire.:beamup:


Quote:

Originally Posted by Turion (Post 303670)
I am using # 23 AWG wire and have pretty much settled on 24 strands. I can fit right at 3,000 feet of # 23
............... those are just guidelines.

But you MUST have series connections for these coils to work.

Waiting for parts. They will be here in three days.

............ six magnets on the rotor and 12 coils.

I have a second machine that has five pairs of coils and six magnets







Putting Two and Two Together

........ recommending coils have 2400-3000 feet
of wire on them and so using 6 large spools in your video I realized you
are using 400-600 feet per strand.


BroMikey 08-14-2017 07:56 PM

You are correcting my inaccurate thinking, this is important. I jumped
to conclusions from your winding setup, since it did not show room
for 24 -60 spools I assumed you no longer needed that many. But
after your clarification about how you need +3 volts for charging
batteries I see now why that you need your coils to be adjustable.

But the biggest mystery (I am sure agree) is that the coils MUST be
series connected to work. In other words like Tesla pointed out there
must be this bifilar, trifilar, quadfilar, and so on for our coils to properly
operate.

Even with years of refinements Thane still uses a bifilar coil in his demo's.

Others who use a single wire on youtube show that speeding up under
load is possible but none of them have any serious inventions and probably
are just beginners with a ball of wire.:beamup:


Quote:

Originally Posted by Turion (Post 303670)
I am using # 23 AWG wire and have pretty much settled on 24 strands. I can fit right at 3,000 feet of # 23
............... those are just guidelines.

But you MUST have series connections for these coils to work.

Waiting for parts. They will be here in three days.

............ six magnets on the rotor and 12 coils.

I have a second machine that has five pairs of coils and six magnets


Putting Two and Two Together

........ recommending coils have 2400-3000 feet
of wire on them and so using 6 large spools in your video I realized you
are using 400-600 feet per strand.


SkyWatcher 08-14-2017 11:21 PM

Hi all, just a quick thought.
I wonder if a single strand would be equivalent to multistrands in tesla style, if after each layer is done, we run the wire across the top, back to the beginning again and keep winding and repeat that process.
peace love light

BroMikey 08-14-2017 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turion (Post 303692)
I use 24 strands, that is only 125 feet per
strand, not 300-400 per strand.

..............THREE strands of # 23, 800-1000 feet long and those
coils would speed up under load above 2800 RPM.

I have lots of smaller coils With no strands in series that also sped
up under load at SPECIFIC RPM's.

But what I have learned is that if you wind in parallel and have AT LEAST
one series connection for each strand, you don't have to work nearly
as hard to get your coils to speed up under load.


Yes i remember your past posts "OPTIONS" options meaning a way to
adjust the voltage but most of all the 2 stage coil winding process had
to be a given.

Speeding up under a load at one frequency or at one RPM is not as
good as coils that will be able to run speeding up under load for
many many RPM's.

What people don't think about til they get there is that when you
load your device this alters the RPM and depending on the voltage
you may need to raise or lower by adding or taking away 1 strand.

It makes sense. Also to answer SKY you mentioned how coils using
the series connection pattern more easily speed up under load. To me
this has many implications such as we have heard about a coils self
capacitance or ability to store more voltage as we are dealing with a
delay.

Also not storing voltage with the long lengths but the bifilar coil might
also do some emf cancelling within it's own field being wound this way.

As we have heard before 2 short wires wound to form a bifilar do not
respond exactly the same way as 1 single wire of a comparable length.

The bifilar has value.

BroMikey 08-16-2017 06:26 AM

What I like about this video is that the magnets are practically a mile
away from the coil poles which proves a lot of points. Or i think it does.

The motor in the middle has a rotor with magnets and 3 coils on bolts.

Being so far from the coil poles has little or nearly no drag on the system
yet when he engages those great big coils it speeds up a bunch. Naturally
the amount of speed up will depend on how much excess energy is being
sent to the motor but in this case he is using an ESC controller to tune it
so I think maybe this is a good example of coils with high impedance
assisting the rotor.

I don't know, it just seems like a good example to me. Most other demo
do not impress me much. Thane also used a wide gap between magnets
and poles in his beginning demo's. The is something to that.

Closing the gap comes later.:thumbsup:




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCFak6CYzIQ

--------------------------------------------------


https://ytimg.googleusercontent.com/.../mqdefault.jpg

BroMikey 08-16-2017 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turion (Post 303736)
How much flux from a passing magnet can a
coil accept? It should have a limit should it not? So slowly move the
coil away from the rotor until the output is affected.


That's it Dave I agree. I have been trying to wrap my mind around this
thought as well. As I move my coil away and then in closer it gains in
voltage. This is not a load test only static. This is as far as I am.

Saturation is the word I am thinking about. According to small amount of
information floating around saturation of magnetic fields in coils has some
negative effects in this process and is why Permalloy core material are
advocated in some experimentation.

It is be perception that there is a tipping point that is reached very
quickly with the use of iron cores where Permalloy widens this range
of cutoff. It could be that by increasing this area of of variation,
saturation VS non-saturation that the builder will find a great
window of opportunity for harvesting energy without the process
collapsing during operation.

For some reason I think saturation is a word for discussion and all those
other words like hysteresis and the like are foreign to me. I remember
them but don't use them enough. Also tinned wire will help as well as
winding coils uniformly.

For me the fun begins. Spacing layers during coil winding with clothe.

So many questions to be answered. I have a bunch of Bedini spools I
want to put up to this rotor with a "C" pattern. I will post data.

It is good for me to have someone lead and voice (put into words) the
thoughts that across many of our experimental minds.

When a very large magnet stays in front of a small coil saturation will
occur so this teaches us something. The object of all of our experiments
are to keep fields pulsing and so the question is how much?

How much on time and how much off time. Some say 1% on time and
others say 90% on time for a wide range of pulsing experiments. I don't
think that saturation is good for this. I can't talk very well in terms
of book smarts, I go by what it feels like. I mean I can sound book
smart don't get me wrong, I just think much of what we parrot is
showboat empty words.

My friend John Bedini taught me that copying the answered got me
to pass but didn't give me the right answers.:D God Bless you John:thumbsup:

I really love that guy. Especially when he went ballistic on the crowd of
numb chucks.:rofl:

SkyWatcher 08-17-2017 12:53 AM

Hi all, couple interesting videos.
peace love light

https://youtu.be/4p9feKmnPNU

https://youtu.be/GzowSsDaGvE

BroMikey 08-17-2017 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyWatcher (Post 303752)
Hi all, couple interesting videos.
peace love light

https://youtu.be/4p9feKmnPNU

https://youtu.be/GzowSsDaGvE

I know what the title says Sky but these video's are inconclusive as
far as I can tell. Do you understand if Pat is getting more out than in?

Pat puts me to sleep with his gentle low tone and I can never get a
straight answer from him in text form either, or anyone else. Pat is a nice
guy who is unsure of what he has or has not got.

Then he will see this post and instead of speaking out where we can
understand his boast, he plays the victim card and disappears back onto
youtube with more question mark video's.

Pat will not speak to me because he knows I won't pet him. Do I pet
anyone? No and if I don't like what you say I tell you, don't I Sky? We
have had our differences Sky but it has never damaged our relationship
as fellow experimenters.

I would like for Pat's video demo to prove something but he never tries
to prove anything as far as I can tell. It has been years and years of
Pat's video's and the only thing I can see changing is that his daughters
Piano playing has improved dramatically.

Pat parades a hero victim chip on his shoulders that makes it impossible
to interact with. He looks down from above in his condescending small
world of isolation where he talks and you listen, don't nobody ask
no questions because THAT is considered a declared war against his
findings.

It is a shame that Pat will not humble himself. I hit him a few times and
he went into military mode to stay.:) He is growing up now, who knows
what the future holds.

I just can't get a straight answer out of the guy and he will do a few
video's and then come back and rebut stating in no way are these free
energy experiments.

He is afraid.


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