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Bedini RPX Sideband Generator
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  #271  
Old 04-12-2017, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAMSET View Post
Mikey
I cannot watch videos too easily ,but I have a question

if both coils have a total 100 feet of wire ,one single wrap another Bifiler

are you stating that DC resistance will be half in the 100 feet of Bifiler
as apposed to the 100 feet in a mono wound coil
same length of wire ...half the DC resistance ??

I will delete this comment if I misunderstood
or at your request

respectfully
Chet K
Hey Ram
Don't worry about stepping on any of my biggest toes, I forgive
and forget fast especially after a good ole fashion brawl, it's a man
thing.

Good to see you hanging out.

Yes that is correct according to the video not for 100 feet though.

In THE OLD SCIENTIST video and in the picture the amount of wire
used was 680 turns of 22 awg wire and the spools looked to be around
a 2" diameter and with this we might guess the length.

But I think the awg of the wire is actual less because the feet are
less than 680 feet. My mistake. I will correct this thought, however
according to the video measurements THAT spool that looks to be
about 15" long and approx. 2" diameter holds 680 turns and this is
what we have to work with.

Yes that is right Ramset when using the same number of turned
split up like a bifilar and series connecting the winding, the resistance
value is not quite half but close enough.

You really need to see the video. He has been around for years and
has a lot of nice test equipment. Nice everything, scopes you name it.

The lower resistance value may be due to the assisted flow as the
reconnect in series is in the same direction as the first wire flowing.

Then when watching the video he double verifies everything with
two other forms of measuring instruments such as the LCR regular
and then he switched to a precision LCR metering device, then he

looks at the scope as he runs a generator on the coils to find RES.
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  #272  
Old 04-13-2017, 12:01 AM
RAMSET RAMSET is offline
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Bro Mikey
well forgive any sloppy typing ,I had a retinal reattachment surgery in February, and apparently its failing again, going under the knife again
tomorrow.
but this question [mine yet to come]and the condition you describe is very very intriguing.

a friend wound two coils last night after reading your post ,they have the same
resistance as your example [from the old scientist] ,but they are smaller in size

His results showed no disparity ??

he suspects there may be a need to pass a threshold for this to happen ?? [bigger coils... actual replication]
or that perhaps there was some error in the actual test probe placement ?

this would truly be an amazing gift ....simply utilizing
this coil characteristic .

all my comments here are sincere ,
have you ever seen this yourself ?
or know someone who has ?
I would love to wind some wire on the lathe myself ....
but seems not for a while...
respectfully
Chet K
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Last edited by RAMSET; 04-13-2017 at 01:36 AM. Reason: changed improper spelling of key word
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  #273  
Old 04-13-2017, 01:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAMSET View Post
Bro Mikey


he suspects there may be a need to pass a threshold for this to happen ?? [bigger coils... actual replication]

I would love to wind some wire on the lathe myself ....
but seems not for a while...
respectfully
Chet K
Okay I have briefly reviewed that OLD SCIENTIST says his wire is .5mm
or .021 " = 24awg so I was wrong on that. Then the length should be more
like (GUESSING) 7" X 680 turns.

I will be back. I will ask God to help you with your eye experiment.
The Lord is kind and gracious showing mercy to all generations.
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  #274  
Old 04-13-2017, 07:14 AM
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Hello Ramset

I went back and listened very closely and deduced that only
for one test OLD SCIENTIST connected two ends of his bifilar
coil together while reading the other two ends or the ends of
wire on the other side. This is cancellation and forms what is
known as a HAIRPIN.

In other experiments I have witnessed that inductance meters
will read zero using short coils and so a very long coil will read
almost nothing as in this case. However I can not explain the
resistance value.

In most regular series connected paths using the bifilar one side
might read 50 and the other side 53 which would lead us to think
both added together should be around 100, when in reality the value
the readings show as much as twice the assumed value in raw tests.

Again a few video's back a standard transformer is shown to be
modified to be used as a bifilar where resistance and impedance
simply disappears.

In yet other evidence multi-filar coils shown with various connection
paths are beyond the scope of simple descriptions. This changes
everything about the coil so we may have more options to tune
our coils to meet the need.

Often shooting in the dark for a specific tuning the right coil setup
could make quick work of finding the keyhole on the lock.



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  #275  
Old 04-13-2017, 08:57 AM
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I have updated the picture to reflect the most probable data that
was not available and needed to be filled in. For instance the coil
diameter was found at 2.35" Dia X 3.14 pie = 7.379" circumference
so then

7.379" X 680 turns = 5017" / 12" to get feet = 418 feet of 24awg
at 26 ohms per thousand feet of 24awg

So then 418 feet out of 1000 feet gives a value of
.418 X 26 ohms = 10.868 ohms just like OLD SCIENTIST has.

Depending on the selected connection path resistance and impedance
may be greatly reduced that can allow for huge changes.

The lower frame shows a HAIRPIN connection path. With this circuit
inductance cancels and many other things can occur.

As shown by the low figure for this large unit as compared to many
other much smaller coils that read zero inductance. In this case nearly
zero inductance but not zero. Approx. 130 times lower than the
standard solenoid reading.



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  #276  
Old 04-14-2017, 08:47 AM
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Okay Ultraman TK has corrected us from YT and this is fine.
Thx TK for doing some of this work and I say it's okay if the
results show the same however this does not end anything you
understand.

But you are probably right for such a tiny coil. What are you going to
to with the other measurements such as inductance, surely you must
has a meter.

You see while TK is right on static readings during powering tests the
impedance (A form of resistance) changes dramatically.

For now i think it is important to show what we probably guessed about
the standard resistance of magnet wire. Let's start here with TK's
video.

TK presents are large cross section of the people who can only see
the conventional theories and has trouble going outside the box. It's okay
this is fine, no problem.

But remember this, if you can read and understand the math I posted
about bifilar papers written in the 1940's you would realize that this
is no new data, we are just now learning this, that is all.

The bifilar math and theory went orbital with the rise of early radio.

But still, let us start with the obvious and again thanks TK for taking
the time to address this area of research so we all can investigate
together on youtube.

Here is TK on the testing of DC resistance of wire coils.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fraTy20BAsY
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  #277  
Old 04-14-2017, 09:13 AM
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Okay we will address TK's video later, this has nothing to do with
dc ohms on a bifilar coil, or does it? You tell me. I am asking all of you
to think about WHY this Bedini is speeding up under load.

What are we doing on this split the positive THREAD? What?

1st I have addressed the Modified motor Matt Jones invented and
all of his instructions on how to hook three batteries to power his
motor on differential energy, something that has been done in many
circuits. Also the converter that sends power back to the source
batteries, just as it was pointed out in TURION's

"BASIC FREE ENERGY DEVICE" thread.

2nd we are discussing accelerating the generator under a load.

Remember JOHN BEDINI? Of course we all remember and now miss
him but his work will last forever, watch.

This is a bifilar coil. This Bedini speeds up when using a bifilar coil
as it powers the LED'S. I know what some are going to say that any
coil can do this. Really? Maybe not.

I also have more data coming on bifilar coils that read far different
from conventional and as we experiment the solution to find what we
are looking for will come.

What are we looking for? We are looking for a coil that speeds up the
prime mover or the drive motor while delivering usable energy some might
call free energy.

As you watch this small wheel speed up when a bifilar is used as a
generator coil to power lights what do you think that says about
the values of this coil and why was a standard coil not selected
for this job?

Why? Why is Thane Heins using the bifilar and not a conventional
solenoid? I will tell you why again and as time goes on you won't have
to hear the same repeats to grasp the reason.

It will become clear. Something inside of a bifilar changes when
powered up, what is it?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j-0CvWYT8w
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  #278  
Old 04-14-2017, 09:53 AM
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Let's begin our study today of the bifilar by seeing a magnet
pass a bifilar coil in slow motion. What do you think is happening?

This what is happening as our rotor magnets pass the bifilars



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BusoqPXYYM0
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  #279  
Old 04-14-2017, 10:02 AM
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Another dual transformer transferring energy to power a regular
light bulb on 120ac then using the secondaries that have been
altered as biflars that now face one another getting them to ring.

The ringing increased the power transfer. Not free energy yet.
Or is the effect occurring without additional primary draw?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbpso7zAlvU
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  #280  
Old 04-14-2017, 11:19 AM
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TK says he is back and going to run another tests. Look at this
guy telling us about inductance of the Tesla mult-ifilar pancakes

Here he is on Youtube. You will see right away what I have been
talking about. 1st his tube statement.


Published on Mar 30, 2013

A bi-filar is definatly more inductance than a single. As a motivator (generating a magnetic field) it is a more noticable field.

A quad filar has 50% more inductance than a bifilar; a bi filar has
100% more inductance than a single, or than the sum of the parts.

The flatter the coil, the more notable the effect, chaos, or
overlapped windings reduces the inductance.

56+58 = 114; actual 224
13+14 = 26; actual 41

quadfilar 0.026 + 0.026 + 0.26 + 0.026 = 0.104 ; actual 286

0.26 + 0.26 - actual 0.083
0.26 + 0.26 + 0.26 - actual 0.171
and the 4th in series - actual 0.295

so the result is more than 10x a single winding for 4 windings.

the result is 4x a single winding for 2 windings.

So by that I guess it would be 25x a single winding for a
hex-filar coil... but there must be diminishing returns...

The flatest pancake coil is 33 turns each (total 66). So the quad
filar would be like 16 turns.

So if I made like a 32-filar coil with 2 turns, and put them all
together?... but then isn't it at some point really getting back
to mono-filar coil with an offset of 1?

----
The wider, quad-filar coil (usually to upper left) is fairly flat.
When I took it out of its form it lost integrety a bit.
The narrow-er quad-filar coil is actually somewhat overlapped,
so it's 2x2 winding basically.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQi-5xSeP_U
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  #281  
Old 04-23-2017, 08:30 AM
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I have some 100 year old hardwood that are real 2" X 4" that I cut
as shown. The bracketing is 304 ss to stop the flux from jumping
ship.

The sleeve is almost a thin conduit that bearings fit nicely into and
the coil bobbin is yet to be fashioned. I have fiberglass sheeting to
cut some sanding then a little mat and or clothe as a means of
constructing to fit my split flyback core.

More fun to follow when coil experiments begin.



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  #282  
Old 04-26-2017, 07:35 AM
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Yet another brief example of a motor generator coil being
shorted out while running under a small load Accelerating.

Or ACCELERATION UNDER LOAD or Regenerative acceleration
also other key words ReGenX as coined by Thane Heins.

As can be seen this coil is way larger than the average coil
for such a tiny magnet and this added length will delay the
current at TDC where magnet and coil interactions are slightly
offset. Enough to cause the two to benefit one another.

A lot longer wire can cause this effect as well as other things.
Other things to enter into the equation are using multifilar
coils to achieve this effect with a coil size reduction due to the
wide range of tuning flexibility such as bifilar or trifilar
field changes can offer.

Things like capacitance and inductance alterations
in the multifilar coils. Tuning the coil to operate at the rpm
or frequency needed without huge EMF increases that might
be associated with long coils.

RICHIE'S video shows the effect.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJcRh_3I3VU

______________________________________






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  #283  
Old 04-27-2017, 06:07 PM
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Where's the beef?

With ALL the examples of coils speeding up under load that have been shown and STILL not a single person has taken the coils, the 3 battery circuit, the modified motor, and put together a machine that puts all these things into practical application. And people wonder why I don't bother to post much anymore. You have EVERYTHING for a working machine yet nobody is building one. It hurts my brain.
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  #284  
Old 04-27-2017, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
With ALL the examples of coils speeding up under load that have been shown and STILL not a single person has taken the coils, the 3 battery circuit, the modified motor, and put together a machine that puts all these things into practical application. And people wonder why I don't bother to post much anymore. You have EVERYTHING for a working machine yet nobody is building one. It hurts my brain.
I understand your frustration. Maybe in your mind, we, the people, have everything for a working machine. The answer for humankind, who do not listen. And maybe your are right. You did post everything.

What bothers me though is that you post over and over your frustration, while it would be best to start a thread with the first post being the blueprint to build and be clear of the outcome of the build, as to wat is to be expected, the "claim", the "promise", the "reward".

In other words, make your information easily accessible, instead of bickering and demanding others to plow through hundreds of incoherent post.
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  #285  
Old 04-27-2017, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
people wonder why I don't bother to post much anymore. You have EVERYTHING for a working machine yet nobody is
building one. It hurts my brain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickDick View Post
I understand your frustration.

What bothers me though is that you post over and over your frustration,


Our cities are in bad bad shape.


I am in tears about this daily. Well inside I cry a little when I see the
USA in the fallen state and seemingly disrepair. I am doing these tests
and I don't care who follows me or not.

Turion you are my inspiration and have pointed out with each pat
on the back that this all comes from Matt on the key Modified Motor.

Here is what could happen. A cordless drill motor might be modified
and might not but someone should give it some thought so we might
use a system the same way so beginners can attain this quickly.

For instance if a cordless drill motor could be done like the winding
charts above several 3.7v Li-ion batteries and they could be splitting
the positive at lunch time.

Then people could see the first step even if they were teenagers
without all day and a machine shop.


Ours is not to reason why. What I am doing is following the leaders
which first requires me to judge the matter that I am considering.
I have done that, case closed, this works well and is a gift.

It is a free gift and it flows from the hearts that are giving it. Freely
they receive and freely give to each of you. The only question that
remains is "Are you able to receive it"?

A gift is worthless to anyone who is unable to interact.

Okay enough of me doing poetry. I made and am making parts.
Today my motor stand is on the rise, it is adjustable. It is my
adjustable motor platform. It is so cool, I got to show it to you.

I will very soon. Also I want to say how glad I am and how good
I feel today after being so sick for the last month. These dern
sprays coming from airplanes on the farm lands nailed me good.

Oh one more thing, just because most won't post doesn't mean they
are not doing the tests. So now someone can do a short post at my
request.

Who is testing these circuits? Who? Let me know.
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  #286  
Old 04-28-2017, 03:39 PM
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Slick,
Since my complaining bothers you, I'll refrain from doing that. And no, I won't be spending any more of my time laying things out in simple steps since I have already done ALL of that many times, except for how to wind the coils, which has been shown HERE several times now. If people can't be bothered to spend a few days reading through what took many years of my life and thousands of dollars to come up with, I figure they have exactly what they deserve. So I'll be on my merry way. I will pop back in when I have the final output numbers on the latest setup though. I'm done being a cheerleader for people who can't get up out of their chair and actually build something their own.
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  #287  
Old 04-29-2017, 02:01 AM
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Hey Dave

Ran out of time, had folks over for dinner but I made more progress
on my adjustable motor stand. It works well because all four corners
can be moved in very small increments to align perfert.

Rubber mounts also. I am looking forward to running the numbers and give
out my coil specification when I get a speed up. As I am going over the
normal coil VS the bifilar I found my self thinking that the bifilar coil
might have less kick back than one continuous conductor.

Any thoughts on that? It is just a passing thought. I am working on
several coil sizes, throwing out my first one being to small. Now I am
at around a spool size of 2" X 1.5" with the core .60" or a little over
1/2" so this one is small but not as small as the first one.

This one uses a flyback core and I remember you saying that ferrites
from a HF flyback might not collect enough at the lower frequencies
and am thinking about another core material.

Welding rods bend in a "C" form or cut some of this transformer iron
to work. Did you ever use Bedini's welding rod for cores on your rigs?
I am sure through the years you might have tried them all.

Custom spools are an issue or maybe you know of or recommend
iron "C" cores with spools? Did you really use iron cores?
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  #288  
Old 04-29-2017, 04:03 AM
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Response

I have used welding rod cores and some steel rod I got at the metals place that has a smaller diameter. It worked better. I have also made cores out of #12 shotgun shot that work really well. If you want to make "C" shaped cores that's a perfect solution. Mix it with epoxy and pack a rubber tube bent into the correct shape. Then cut the tube off when finished. If you are going to try that, be sure to use a few welding rods in there as well as sort of a "support frame" or it will break into pieces very easily unless you figure out a way to put a couple solid layers of epoxy on the outside after it has dried. The shot is compacted so tightly that there is not a lot of surface for the epoxy to bond to. I have some C cores I made that way and will take a picture. I think the ones I have I routed a "C" shape the size I wanted into some plywood I had glued together to make it thick enough. I lined the "form" with "Cling Wrap". The I cut three or four pieces of welding rod and bent them into the same shape. I put some shot mixed with epoxy into the form then the welding rod and then more shot, tamping it down so it was packed in tight and flat on the top as well as the bottom. I'll take a picture or two or shoot a video so you can see. It is also a good way to make large toroids with an iron core.

As for coils... always as many strands as you can stand to wrap together. It gives you the most options.

Now that my generator is working like I want it to, I am on to experimenting with different coil cores, wire sizes and configurations. It is a huge data accumulation project that involves winding lots and lots of coils. Not a lot of fun.
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Last edited by Turion; 04-29-2017 at 04:13 AM.
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  #289  
Old 04-29-2017, 05:35 AM
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I have used welding rod cores and some steel rod I got at the metals place that has a smaller diameter. It worked better. I have also made cores out of #12 shotgun shot that work really well. If you want to make "C" shaped cores that's a perfect solution. Mix it with epoxy and pack a rubber tube bent into the correct shape. Then cut the tube off when finished. If you are going to try that, be sure to use a few welding rods in there as well as sort of a "support frame" or it will break into pieces very easily unless you figure out a way to put a couple solid layers of epoxy on the outside after it has dried. The shot is compacted so tightly that there is not a lot of surface for the epoxy to bond to. I have some C cores I made that way and will take a picture. I think the ones I have I routed a "C" shape the size I wanted into some plywood I had glued together to make it thick enough. I lined the "form" with "Cling Wrap". The I cut three or four pieces of welding rod and bent them into the same shape. I put some shot mixed with epoxy into the form then the welding rod and then more shot, tamping it down so it was packed in tight and flat on the top as well as the bottom. I'll take a picture or two or shoot a video so you can see. It is also a good way to make large toroids with an iron core.

As for coils... always as many strands as you can stand to wrap together. It gives you the most options.

Now that my generator is working like I want it to, I am on to experimenting with different coil cores, wire sizes and configurations. It is a huge data accumulation project that involves winding lots and lots of coils. Not a lot of fun.
yeah we are done with dinner drinking a small glass of Champagne

And I see your details, this is putting me at ease knowing that cheap
cores can be had this way that really work well enough to get me in
the ball park. This opens up availability for many shapes with simple
tools.

This gives me flashbacks of john Bedini's expose's on the subject.

I heard this before and wondered if it was truth or fiction, now hearing
this from you i can take hold of this as reality.

I know Thane and others in the 1900's used a variety of Permalloy thin
films in a stack formation that I have no concept of the why. No idea
about how to target the saturation vs un-saturation curves at which
permeability numbers 1000-10,000-100,000. I am at a loss to explain
all of this in detail for the moment.

Entropy charts for saturation and permeability are not my bag lately
but it will be in my sights from here on out. There is an optimum range
as you know that is probably found better through trial and error often
times than spending endless hour running precise numbers that usually
do not end the search of fine tuning.

I read Thanes Patents and he goes on about using certain numbers
in a range of a permeability. Math and understanding of basic laws
are fine while in the end offer only a dim picture of the end product.

You spent many years now searching and running the numbers, you
know what I am talking about. Something about the number of magnets
are directly related to the frequency based on RPM'S.

This is ballpark openers. Now let's say (and I do) I have a 20 pole set
of magnets, well each time the dual pole core trips all 20 at 2 grand
rpm's we can do the numbers.

I love numbers. Going to come back later and show you the unimpressive
pictures of my primitive rig. I am a rigger. Doing an experiment is what
my life has been all about.

I spend long hours experimenting with new designs and I enjoy every
minute of it. All day long my life has been one more new experiment
after another learning how to repair the latest technology.

I am old and feel like I am just beginning to catch on.

The rpm's and frequency using 20 magnets should be no problem to
calculate for resonant tuning of a coil. My current coil area is significant
when I begin to determine the number of strands to be used.

Things like this go through my mind

TO be continued......................................... ...

Talk to me Turion Man Thx Turion for being the asset you are.
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  #290  
Old 04-29-2017, 07:35 AM
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The more magnets you have on your rotor, the easier it will be to get results at lower rpm. I don't have HALF as many as you do and I get speed up under load. I don't have bifilar wound coils connected in series either, but what I have works.

You should be able to turn your rotor past about 4 coils of the size you are talking about without having an issue with amp draw. Every coil pair added increases the amp draw because of all the steel in the core. and the motor having to move magnets PAST those coils. Speed up under load gets rid of some of those additional amps. So you have to look at the number of magnets on the rotor, how it affects the amp draw, the production it gives you, the lower rpm you can run at, and the safe operating amp draw of the motor. Lots of variables to have to play with.

I have over 60 pounds of wire in the coils on my generator. I still want to try ferrite cores because the magnetic attraction of the ferrite to the magnets is supposed to be less, the output of the coil greater, and the weight less. My machine is heavy enough already!
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Old 05-01-2017, 11:58 AM
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Progress

3 battery motor generator setup. Matt Mod Motor and rotor
more to come.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPNJNeuGWqA

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  #292  
Old 05-01-2017, 11:08 PM
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The video got cut short but I ran the voltage up to 18vdc and
then dropped it back down to 15vdc with changing amp draw.
The amps climb to 4 during accelerate up to a higher rpm and once
the desired speed is reached the current goes down to 2.2 approx.
for 14.75vdc.

I have just now realized that my "C" cores are not the right size because
they do not reach across far enough to have opposing poles "N" & "S"
I remember now Thane skipping two magnets as his "C" material
is long.

This means I won't be wasting my time and with Turion's latest entry
about #12 shot bee bees and thin welding rod homemade cores I have
reconsidered what one of my first cores will be.

The first thing is to have the "C" cores the proper size.







https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPNJNeuGWqA

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  #293  
Old 05-02-2017, 02:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
I have over 60 pounds of wire in the coils on my generator.
Here is a Thane Heins setup that is more than a proof of a concept
he has lots of wire here and just so everyone understands how much
60lbs looks like I will show you a full roll.

Each roll weights around 11 pounds and costs $100 plus dollars.







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  #294  
Old 05-02-2017, 04:20 AM
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Info.

About $120.00 per 11 lb. spool here in California, with free shipping. Not every coil holder will work with every rotor. I first figured out a way to hold my coils, and that determined the size of the rotor I could use and the spacing between the magnets. Here is an example of one of the first, best, and simplest coil holders I used when I went to the larger coils with the standard 3 x 3 1/2 bobbin with the 3/4 inch center hole.

Coil Holder Final - YouTube

Another tip. And these are things I learned the hard way, so pay attention you guys. Since I want coils on BOTH sides of my rotors, what I do is use 1/2 inch thick material for my rotor. I drill a pilot hole through the plastic so that I can inset magnets on BOTH sides of my rotor (and have them back to back). I leave a thin layer of plastic between the magnets, but they are so strongly attracted to each other that GOOD LUCK getting them back out. Yes, this double the number of magnets I need, but I no longer worry about magnets flying out of my rotors because the glue didn't hold. Once those two magnets have locked onto each other, even with the thin layer of plastic in between, they aren't going anywhere.

So now you have the motor to use
You have several videos here of how to wind the coils.
You have the coil holder
You have info about how to build the best rotor.

That's all I have to share. Hope it helps.

Dave
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Last edited by Turion; 05-14-2017 at 04:38 PM.
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  #295  
Old 05-02-2017, 07:32 AM
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Great to have you add in some construction practices tips from
day to day, really saves a lot of scheming.

The coils packs took me a few minutes to grasp but I see it now.

With that setup, did you get much excess output on the generator
vs the input power needed to run the modified motor? Even a cop of
2 would be great.
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Old 05-02-2017, 03:35 PM
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The answer to that depends on your motor. Each coil pair (of mine) puts out 130 volts at 2.7 amps or 351 watts. My motor is pulling 10 amps at 24 volts or 240 watts with just ONE coil pair in place. (And this is a STOCK motor for right now) If I recover just 70% of the input energy using the 3 battery system (and even crappy little batteries are capable of THAT) I am down to 72 watts input for 351 watts output which is a COP>4 The amp draw DROPS when the load is attached, so the COP becomes GREATER and because the motor speeds up, the output also increases. But there is a baseline for you.

Now your input amps are going to go UP, as you add coil pairs, depending on the size of the magnet, the distance from the core, and the size of the core, so there is no way for me to calculate the reality of your build. What you have to do is settle on a coil that speeds up under load, and then build different rotors with different sized magnets in them and different NUMBERS of magnets in them until you see what is MOST EFFICIENT. If you get the same output from a 3/4 inch magnet as you do from a 1" magnet, why use a 1" MAGNET that has a stronger attraction to the iron core and costs you AMPS to turn the motor ?????
The amount of FLUX your core will accept at a specific speed of rotation is finite! Bigger magnets are NOT going to cram more flux into the core. MY coil pairs increase my amp draw by about 8 amps per pair, and speed up under load eliminates about 5 amps per pair, so I get an increase of three amps (3 x 24 volts = 72 watts of which 30% CANNOT BE RECOVERED USING CRAPPY BATTERIES) per coil pair. It boils down to costing me 21 watts to get back 351, but at some point the amp draw on the motor becomes just too much for it to handle.

For this reason I changed my coil holder from the one I showed you, and have gone to a configuration that eliminates most of the magnetic drag of the rotor past the coil.

Attached is a picture of the "C" cores I promised, but you do NOT need "C" cores if you wind the coils like Thaine showed you. You will get speed up under load with a standard coil bobbin that fits in the coil holder I showed.

Here is another tip about building rotors. Cut out 3 rotors from thin plastic and drill the center hole in all three. Now take TWO of them and drill holes for the magnets all the way through with the two stacked on top of each other so that the holes in both will be aligned. Now put the third piece with NO HOLES in it between the other two. You can now put your magnets into the holes in the two outside pieces, and the magnets will stick to each other through the center piece, holding them solidly in place. No glue, no muss, no fuss. You can put coils on BOTH sides of this rotor using the coil holder I showed. If you want, you can glue all three pieces of plastic to each other with just a little super glue. The thicker the outside plastic pieces, the less FLEX there will be in the rotor, and that is just one of MANY problems I learned to overcome in my build. With strong magnets and large rotors, the rotor will flex (bend ) and the magnets will hit the iron core. I use a SPECIFIC kind of plastic for my rotors, and have some other things I do to eliminate the flex of the rotor, but those are just some of my ideas. You can always go to an aluminum rotor and eliminate flex altogether.

Dave
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0080.JPG (25.4 KB, 37 views)
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Last edited by Turion; 05-03-2017 at 01:07 AM.
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Old 05-03-2017, 05:09 AM
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Gotcha!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
The answer to that depends on your motor. Each coil pair (of mine) puts out 130 volts at 2.7 amps or 351 watts. My motor is pulling 10 amps at 24 volts or 240 watts with just ONE coil pair in place. (And this is a STOCK motor for right now) If I recover just 70% of the input energy using the 3 battery system (and even crappy little batteries are capable of THAT) I am down to 72 watts input for 351 watts output which is a COP>4 The amp draw DROPS when the load is attached, so the COP becomes GREATER and because the motor speeds up, the output also increases. But there is a baseline for you.

Now your input amps are going to go UP, as you add coil pairs, depending on the size of the magnet, the distance from the core, and the size of the core, so there is no way for me to calculate the reality of your build. What you have to do is settle on a coil that speeds up under load, and then build different rotors with different sized magnets in them and different NUMBERS of magnets in them until you see what is MOST EFFICIENT. If you get the same output from a 3/4 inch magnet as you do from a 1" magnet, why use a 1" MAGNET that has a stronger attraction to the iron core and costs you AMPS to turn the motor ?????
The amount of FLUX your core will accept at a specific speed of rotation is finite! Bigger magnets are NOT going to cram more flux into the core. MY coil pairs increase my amp draw by about 8 amps per pair, and speed up under load eliminates about 5 amps per pair, so I get an increase of three amps (3 x 24 volts = 72 watts of which 30% CANNOT BE RECOVERED USING CRAPPY BATTERIES) per coil pair. It boils down to costing me 21 watts to get back 351, but at some point the amp draw on the motor becomes just too much for it to handle.

For this reason I changed my coil holder from the one I showed you, and have gone to a configuration that eliminates most of the magnetic drag of the rotor past the coil.

Attached is a picture of the "C" cores I promised, but you do NOT need "C" cores if you wind the coils like Thaine showed you. You will get speed up under load with a standard coil bobbin that fits in the coil holder I showed.

Here is another tip about building rotors. Cut out 3 rotors from thin plastic and drill the center hole in all three. Now take TWO of them and drill holes for the magnets all the way through with the two stacked on top of each other so that the holes in both will be aligned. Now put the third piece with NO HOLES in it between the other two. You can now put your magnets into the holes in the two outside pieces, and the magnets will stick to each other through the center piece, holding them solidly in place. No glue, no muss, no fuss. You can put coils on BOTH sides of this rotor using the coil holder I showed. If you want, you can glue all three pieces of plastic to each other with just a little super glue. The thicker the outside plastic pieces, the less FLEX there will be in the rotor, and that is just one of MANY problems I learned to overcome in my build. With strong magnets and large rotors, the rotor will flex (bend ) and the magnets will hit the iron core. I use a SPECIFIC kind of plastic for my rotors, and have some other things I do to eliminate the flex of the rotor, but those are just some of my ideas. You can always go to an aluminum rotor and eliminate flex altogether.

Dave

I just took your picture!!! What an excellent post Dave. This post is a
keeper for all to see. I will ask you later some interesting questions but
for now this is what I do first.

Document the material, it is like getting a telephone call and then you
write down all of the information so later you have the details on paper
rather than trying to recall everything from memory.

Your toroid cores are another world. We will get to that.

The values in amp draw before and after speed up under load are a
giant leap forward to this group. This is the holy grail of that open door
into science we have been looking for.

Also the primary drive unit data on recovery of a large percentage adds
to COP at the end of the day.



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  #298  
Old 05-03-2017, 06:30 AM
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Dave's / Turion Man's one of many coil pack designs

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  #299  
Old 05-04-2017, 05:21 AM
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6/5 or6/7

If you go with the six coil holder(s) I showed, you might want to go with 5 or 7 magnets on the rotor so that you only have to break magnetic lock of ONE coil pair at a time. (A coil on each side of the rotor; one aligned with the N side of the magnet and the other aligned with the S side of the magnet I call a coil pair.) It will STILL cost you amps to turn the magnets on the rotor past all those cores, but it won't draw 200 amps on start up trying to break the magnetic lock of six magnets at once. Can you say "ROASTED MOTOR?"

So coil holder, 3 piece rotor and then another coil holder.

Start with a PAIR of coils and then add a second pair. If your data looks good, add a third pair, but watch how rapidly the amp draw goes up when you add those coil pairs. There is a REASON we use water, wind or diesel engines to turn generators and NOT little electric motors.

Dave
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Old 05-08-2017, 01:27 AM
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Hello Dave

Yes I hear you loud and clear the amps crawl right up there on
startup. Gotta be careful about the draw. Got to have switches.

Here is an example of a conventional generator torque/ cogging.

The "C" core might leave a path of escape as the rotor magnet struggles
to exit? I don't see this guys cores at all.


Here is the cruel reality for today's generator.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D_lJka2wDg

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Last edited by BroMikey; 05-08-2017 at 02:08 AM.
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