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  #1  
Old 02-06-2016, 04:34 AM
CANGAS CANGAS is offline
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MU METAL....is it attracted to a magnet?

This is posted here because I am an inventor whose specialty is mechanical devices and I sometimes become interested in MAGNETIC mechanical devices.

I have tried to research this question the best I with no satisfaction.

Is mu metal attracted (or repelled) by a nearby magnetic field?

Hopefully somebody with personal experience can give an answer.

thanks in advance.


CANGAS
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  #2  
Old 02-06-2016, 04:55 AM
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Michelinho Michelinho is offline
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Hi,

Mu metal is strongly attracted to a magnet. see this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeHkO_Y0Cjo

Take care,

Michel
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Old 02-06-2016, 08:16 AM
mikrovolt mikrovolt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CANGAS View Post
This is posted here because I am an inventor whose specialty is mechanical devices and I sometimes become interested in MAGNETIC mechanical devices.

I have tried to research this question the best I with no satisfaction.

Is mu metal attracted (or repelled) by a nearby magnetic field?

Hopefully somebody with personal experience can give an answer.

thanks in advance.


CANGAS
only a few metals are attracted to magnetic material.
Is Mu metal ferromagnetic? yes. so magnetic flux is attenuated on the other side.

MuMetal is a "soft" ferromagnetic material that does not retain a macroscopic internal field after the removal of an external magnetizing field. Most alloys are permalloys containing approximately 80% Nickel (Ni), 20% Iron (Fe) and small amounts of Molybdenum (Mo).

Mu metal is used for absorbing magnetic flux.

Can I shield one magnet from another?
No. There is no such thing as a magnetic insulating material. High permeability material works to shield from magnetic interference by attracting and diverting the field through itself. The only way in which to halt the attractive or repulsive forces between two magnets is to separate them by the distance proportional to their respective magnetic field strengths.
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Old 02-06-2016, 02:46 PM
RAMSET RAMSET is offline
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Cangas
this may be in your field of interest

modified simple machine lever shows OU of 200%

also to note SmOky 2 [contributing in the thread] did have a successful run years back with Archer Quinn's spinning magnet device .[a considerable run]

apologies for the intrusion

I will remove this if you wish ?

Chet K
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  #5  
Old 02-07-2016, 07:21 AM
CANGAS CANGAS is offline
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[QUOTE=RAMSET;285877]Cangas
this may be in your field of interest

modified simple machine lever shows OU of 200%

also to note SmOky 2 [contributing in the thread] did have a successful run years back with Archer Quinn's spinning magnet device .[a considerable run]

apologies for the intrusion

I will remove this if you wish ?


Chet K[/QUOTE]

Dear RAMSET, your good intentions are recognized and greatly appreciated. There is no need for you to alter anything already done.

Almost exclusively, when I make a thread, i have a very specific purpose in mind, and it is nettling to get response outside the narrow band of my purpose. I am never just going fishing to see what bites my hook.

I began looking for free energy and over unity in earnest about 25 years ago. In that time I have carefully enough examined somewhere between 300 and 500 possible schematas. In all the excitement I lost count myself. Some of them of my own invention. Most quickly or, eventually failed, under my excruciating scrutiny. Most, not all.

I am flatly oppressed by the present geopolitical and financial climate and feel an overwhelming need to remain silent until "the Moon is in the 7th house and Jupiter aligns with Mars" before making any strong public hint that I might know a way to out-compete Big Oil, Big Money, Big Government, Et Al. So To avoid rude visits by rude MIBS I sit on my thumbs until.....

I do not need to capture any more grand invention ideas to fulfill my inventing destiny and possibly deliver humanity out of poverty globally. But my nature given to me when I was still in the womb irresistably forces me to consider any new idea that presents itself to me. So when I had mu metal come into my attention, I have chased it to see where it may go. It does not matter if it leads to another way to get free energy or not.

My sincere thanks to you for your pertinent response to my question.


CANGAS
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  #6  
Old 02-07-2016, 09:11 AM
Ernst Ernst is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CANGAS View Post
"the Moon is in the 7th house and Jupiter aligns with Mars"
When exactly is that?
(sounds a bit 60's, hair & all)



Ernst.
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Old 02-07-2016, 02:13 PM
thx1138 thx1138 is offline
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I had not seen that video by Russ. Good info but there are a couple of things to note about it.

Russ' magnetizer device is very, very strong so its magnetic field is very large and strong. That field is 3 dimensional so the target of his magnetization is not shielded from the field. It would need to be completely surrounded by the mu metal to be fully shielded. I suspect the results would be quite different if he built a cylinder of mu metal, capped the cylinder on both ends with mu metal, and suspended the target from the top with some non-magnetic material.

I've done some work with HyMu80. There are many different alloys with differing quantities and mixtures of materials that produce different results. So the metal can be formulated for specific purposes. Permalloy was the first patented material and Mu Metal is another. They are essentially the same material with different brand names and there are others.

I've run into mu metal in a couple of places. I have a 1960's vacuum tube oscilloscope that uses it to shield the CRT tube so that the electrons in the tube aren't affected by the magnetic fields generated by the electronics in the case.

I've also run into it in relation to the Hendershot Magnatronic. Attempting to stay as close as possible to the original device, I bought a 1930's phone ringer from eBay to get the ringer coils for my Hendershot build. When I disassembled it I scratched the heel irons which were medium grey colored and the scratches were a very bright silver color. That led me to nickel which eventually led me to Permalloy which was the original mu metal.

Doing research on that I found it is still used today to shield magnetic compasses in avionics. In that application it is shielding the compass from the the fields generated by the electronics behind the dash board in which the compass is mounted. That took me back to Hendershot and his relationship with aviation and Lindbergh and thinking of the fields generated by magnetos, etc. in the Spirit of Saint Lois. One of the articles I found about Lindbergh's Atlantic crossing that was written just after he completed it mentioned that other aviators of the day were amazed that he found England so precisely. They were saying that with the compasses of the day and dead reckoning navigation Lindbergh could have ended up anywhere from Scandinavia to North Africa.

We know that Hendershot worked on aviation compasses. I suggest that his work on compasses was his contribution to Lindbergh's endeavor, not any type of auxiliary power as surmised by others. I suspect Hendershot used Permalloy to shield the magnetic compass in some way.

The interesting thing about mu metal is that it totally loses its magnetization when the magnetic field is removed. If the remanence isn't exactly zero it is very close to it. The 1930's phone ringer coils I obtained have Permalloy cores and after how many ever years of usage show absolutely no magnetic field. It also has a very small hysteresis loop so it can be used for much higher frequency transformers than silicone steel. Permalloy or mu metal transformers can still be found today but they are pricey.

One down side is that it is expensive. Three pieces 2"X6"X3/16" cost me $200US. $200US was the minimum order. I'm using them as the armature in my Hendershot build experiments. No joy as yet but still working with it.

Thinner sheets like what is used for shielding can be found on eBay, Amazon, etc.

Another down side is that is not easy to work with. It can't be ground to size with abrasives or pieces welded together because heat will destroy the magnetic properties. I was going to cut and weld together several of the hard drive keepers like Russ used in his video but found doing so would make it unusable. About the only way to cut it is with something that produces chips at the cutting surface like a hack saw or milling machine and it has to be done slowly so as not to generate heat. And it can't be joined with any heating methods so whatever is used needs to be one continuous piece before forming it to the size or shape you need.

I suspect it could make some interesting magnetic amplifiers.

Here's where I got my armatures:
Scientific Alloys, Inc.
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  #8  
Old 02-08-2016, 06:03 AM
CANGAS CANGAS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernst View Post
When exactly is that?
(sounds a bit 60's, hair & all)



Ernst.

Yes, late 1960s. Song title, "Age Of Aquarius".

I used the lyric as a metaphor for saying that conditions have to get just exactly right before I can have a good chance of success in avoiding all of the Satanic obstacles heaped up to stop anybody who would dare to try to give free energy and universal prosperity to humanity.

CANGAS
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Old 02-08-2016, 06:11 AM
CANGAS CANGAS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thx1138 View Post
I had not seen that video by Russ. Good info but there are a couple of things to note about it.

Russ' magnetizer device is very, very strong so its magnetic field is very large and strong. That field is 3 dimensional so the target of his magnetization is not shielded from the field. It would need to be completely surrounded by the mu metal to be fully shielded. I suspect the results would be quite different if he built a cylinder of mu metal, capped the cylinder on both ends with mu metal, and suspended the target from the top with some non-magnetic material.

I've done some work with HyMu80. There are many different alloys with differing quantities and mixtures of materials that produce different results. So the metal can be formulated for specific purposes. Permalloy was the first patented material and Mu Metal is another. They are essentially the same material with different brand names and there are others.

I've run into mu metal in a couple of places. I have a 1960's vacuum tube oscilloscope that uses it to shield the CRT tube so that the electrons in the tube aren't affected by the magnetic fields generated by the electronics in the case.

I've also run into it in relation to the Hendershot Magnatronic. Attempting to stay as close as possible to the original device, I bought a 1930's phone ringer from eBay to get the ringer coils for my Hendershot build. When I disassembled it I scratched the heel irons which were medium grey colored and the scratches were a very bright silver color. That led me to nickel which eventually led me to Permalloy which was the original mu metal.

Doing research on that I found it is still used today to shield magnetic compasses in avionics. In that application it is shielding the compass from the the fields generated by the electronics behind the dash board in which the compass is mounted. That took me back to Hendershot and his relationship with aviation and Lindbergh and thinking of the fields generated by magnetos, etc. in the Spirit of Saint Lois. One of the articles I found about Lindbergh's Atlantic crossing that was written just after he completed it mentioned that other aviators of the day were amazed that he found England so precisely. They were saying that with the compasses of the day and dead reckoning navigation Lindbergh could have ended up anywhere from Scandinavia to North Africa.

We know that Hendershot worked on aviation compasses. I suggest that his work on compasses was his contribution to Lindbergh's endeavor, not any type of auxiliary power as surmised by others. I suspect Hendershot used Permalloy to shield the magnetic compass in some way.

The interesting thing about mu metal is that it totally loses its magnetization when the magnetic field is removed. If the remanence isn't exactly zero it is very close to it. The 1930's phone ringer coils I obtained have Permalloy cores and after how many ever years of usage show absolutely no magnetic field. It also has a very small hysteresis loop so it can be used for much higher frequency transformers than silicone steel. Permalloy or mu metal transformers can still be found today but they are pricey.

One down side is that it is expensive. Three pieces 2"X6"X3/16" cost me $200US. $200US was the minimum order. I'm using them as the armature in my Hendershot build experiments. No joy as yet but still working with it.

Thinner sheets like what is used for shielding can be found on eBay, Amazon, etc.

Another down side is that is not easy to work with. It can't be ground to size with abrasives or pieces welded together because heat will destroy the magnetic properties. I was going to cut and weld together several of the hard drive keepers like Russ used in his video but found doing so would make it unusable. About the only way to cut it is with something that produces chips at the cutting surface like a hack saw or milling machine and it has to be done slowly so as not to generate heat. And it can't be joined with any heating methods so whatever is used needs to be one continuous piece before forming it to the size or shape you need.

I suspect it could make some interesting magnetic amplifiers.

Here's where I got my armatures:
Scientific Alloys, Inc.

You have encapsulated a great amount of good practical knowledge in one post.

An inventor never knows if he will ever have another good idea. One may arrive the next minute, or the last one may be The Last One. I felt an urge to explore mu metal but do not know what will happen next.

Thanks for your information.


CANGAS
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  #10  
Old 02-09-2016, 02:19 AM
Ernst Ernst is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CANGAS View Post
Yes, late 1960s. Song title, "Age Of Aquarius".

I used the lyric as a metaphor for saying that conditions have to get just exactly right before I can have a good chance of success in avoiding all of the Satanic obstacles heaped up to stop anybody who would dare to try to give free energy and universal prosperity to humanity.

CANGAS
I C

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikola Tesla
I don't care that they stole my quote* . . I care that they don't have any of their own



Ernst.



*) Quote is slightly modified to fit the situation. The original quote says "idea" where this quote says "quote"...
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