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  #181  
Old 06-17-2019, 11:07 PM
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Output

Output is based on
1. Number of magnets
2. Mass of the individual magnet
3. RPM of the rotor
4. Core material
5. Winding of the coil.

If you want to increase output, use more magnets that are thicker and turn the rotor at a higher rpm. I have given out the specs for my coils snd rotors countless times as well as the speed, 2800 rpm that I am running at.
Dave
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  #182  
Old 06-18-2019, 02:01 AM
Doogy2Shoes Doogy2Shoes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post

It's true, this is why Thane tells us that the range is greatly increased.
He tells us a lot of things. When it comes to proving it...not too concerned about showing any proof, is he?

I can tell you that I figured out a way to heat a house with an electric vacuum cleaner. Does that mean its true? I should be able to prove it before you say that it is true.
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  #183  
Old 06-18-2019, 05:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doogy2Shoes View Post
He tells us a lot of things. When it
comes to proving it...not too concerned about showing any
proof, is he?
Doggy
You can't even acknowledge the basic concepts of the Tesla patent
so what business do you have setting yourself as judge jury and
executioner?

You have attacked me and everyone who invents something solely
based out of your inability to wrap your head around it. What Thane
has tackled is not a new idea, he just happens to be one of the few
who has the time and money to do it. Thane is flux harvesting the
collapsing magnetic field. Somehow or another with tronix he is able
to do the same thing as the principle learned from Tesla.

You must start from the beginning to understand Thanes work.

Simply all motors today have a rotor magnetism that fights it's
approach and fights the departure leaving only a need to dump
more raw power to get the HP.

Our work centers on how to stop these conflicts. As a magnet pole
gets close to a coil we have it so there is no opposition. Then right
at TDC (TOP DEAD CENTER) our coils thrust the rotor foreword and
produce. That's all it is. Why can't you see this? It is not hard.

What did Tesla call a coil that is lenz free? Self---what? Better read
the 1 page patent, don't you think? Start by thinking about a coil
that is used to generator power even tho the same coil can be used
other ways.

What happens? Do you know how generator coils work on the
market today? No, of course not, you read a book and teacher told you
the best he or she could as per the govt controlled book store. The
teacher must ONLY TEACH OUT OF THESE BOOKS.

Now i will repeat for the sake of others as well as yourself.

When a rotor magnet gets close to a generator coil on the market today
the coil sees the magnet getting closer and closer then the magnetism
or flux begins to build up in the coil making it's field the same as the
hard magnets polarity. Okay got that? Let's say the the rotor magnet
that is on it's way to the coil and core is a NORTH. Okay? It is a north
hard magnet and the coil makes itself a NORTH field. NOW, I ask you
what happens when to magnets that are north poles are forced close
together?

Yes two magnets of the same polarity will resist each other or fight against
coming close together. This is how a conventional generator coil works
because this is what factories build. So now the two north poles were
forced tight together and they are right on top of each other. This is called
TDC.

At TDC the hard magnet is still and will always be a north but the
north field that the coil collected up from the hard magnet flips to a
south field after TDC as it moves away keeping the hard magnet back
keeping the hard magnet from moving on around the circle. More HP plz
is the answer for conventional generators.

In order to go beyond to the Tesla patent you must first grasp present
day generator action. So again, did you understand? And you want
Thane to come out and explain his work when you don't know how
generator work today? I can't get a decent answer back that you see
how generators work on the market today.

Now to explain Tesla's coils for electromagnets? Can you show us you
understand any of the standard systems? No. This is why you can't see
how our generators have reversed the process and still collects all of the
flux into the core WITHOUT EFFORT or opposition forces. LENZ FREE!!

And you want Thane to write all of this out for the everyday shmoe?

Good luck with that



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  #184  
Old 06-18-2019, 09:35 AM
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I learned something from Thane just like I learned stuff from my
experiments. Thane's first test was using 30awg wire got 100ma and I
got that also using good cores and 50lb magnets.

His coils looked like about 10,000 ft of wire. He tried many flux path
re-routing experiments that only a trained eye in some cases would
see.

Next i learned from Dave that 23awg gave 500ma but 3 separate
conductor giving 500ma each at far less feet per circuit. This is 1500ma
per coil with voltages down in a usable range at 100-200vac.

Now looking at the wire ratings in the transmission column it shows
a max of 700ma for 23awg. Next the 25awg was max 500ma, this is
for a big coil not short runs that these ratings are good for.

Now using tiny magnets of 9lb each not 50lbs like my larger rotor I
would like to see what I can produce in the way of current per the
3 channels on the 3000foot coils suggested by Dave and then work
up by putting bigger magnets on till I reach about 300ma per circuit
or 3 X 300ma.

When i do this (Not if) I will have the measurements from both a weak
magnet rotor and the stronger ones. Of course finding out how much
extra it takes to drive the rotor. Well that WAS my plan but knowing
that the counter magnets will cancel out the hard start cogging of cores
it should not matter how big the rotor magnets are or how big the
cores are. I am sure there will be a small amount of difference.

What does that say? Theoretically I could have 400 lb magnets on the
rotor using a one inch thick steel rotor coming into contact with 2" cores
and it wouldn't take anymore drive input as long as cancellation was
perfect.

All that is left is getting the steel rotor mass up to speed whatever that
a steel wheel would need without anything but the wheel itself.

Without the cancelling magnets it might take a huge diesel engine to
turn a generator rotor that big while the other way with the counter
opposing magnets could be turns by someone peddling a bike.

A person using a 10 speed gear from a bike could easily get a 1" thick
15" flywheel rotor turning and with 400lb magnets that would make
a lot of juice. As long as the generator coils were this type the current
would flow and the guy peddling would get a small relief each time
one coil was engaged.

If the coils were conventional the minute current began to flow the
person peddling would not be strong enough to continue.

So you can see that the system works the best the way Dave has
explained.



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  #185  
Old 06-18-2019, 04:19 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Question for Turion

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post
...

When a rotor magnet gets close to a generator coil on the market today
the coil sees the magnet getting closer and closer then the magnetism
or flux begins to build up in the coil making it's field the same as the
hard magnets polarity. Okay got that? Let's say the the rotor magnet
that is on it's way to the coil and core is a NORTH. Okay? It is a north
hard magnet and the coil makes itself a NORTH field. NOW, I ask you
what happens when to magnets that are north poles are forced close
together?

Yes two magnets of the same polarity will resist each other or fight against
coming close together. This is how a conventional generator coil works
because this is what factories build. So now the two north poles were
forced tight together and they are right on top of each other. This is called
TDC.

At TDC the hard magnet is still and will always be a north but the
north field that the coil collected up from the hard magnet flips to a
south field after TDC as it moves away keeping the hard magnet back
keeping the hard magnet from moving on around the circle.
...
Hey Turion,

Do you agree with BM's explanation?

bi
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  #186  
Old 06-18-2019, 07:00 PM
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Explanation

Yes and No.
His is a generalized description of what WE are doing, not commercial generators
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  #187  
Old 06-18-2019, 07:20 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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How about this part?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Yes and No.
His is a generalized description of what WE are doing, not commercial generators
Does this describe what happens in your generator?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post
...

At TDC the hard magnet is still and will always be a north but the
north field that the coil collected up from the hard magnet flips to a
south field after TDC as it moves away keeping the hard magnet back
keeping the hard magnet from moving on around the circle.
...
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  #188  
Old 06-18-2019, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Does this describe what happens in your generator?
This is the magnetic cogging you talk about. It is an opposition
force in generators. Care to explain it better? Or are you going to say
the fields all help each other and that generators have no opposing
fields in them.

Is that right BI? Generator fields today all work in perfect harmony?

Most generators don't have hard magnets but they still all do the same
thing. Take a stepper motor. When you try to generate with one the
rotor is opposed on the approach and on it's departure of TDC.

So give us all the reasons why I am wrong. You have no clue.


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  #189  
Old 06-18-2019, 10:11 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Just a simple question

I didn't say I agree, or disagree. I did not say anybody is right, or wrong. I simply asked Turion if he agrees with your description of how your (and his) generators operate.

bi
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  #190  
Old 06-18-2019, 10:20 PM
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A north hard rotor magnetic field induces a North field in a coil as
it gets closer and close to it. It wants to stay north in the coil so
when the hard magnet tries to get any closer the north coil field
tries to stop the hard north magnet from getting further.

However you want to further teach on the subject in depth would require
the student to have an 8 year engineering degree. No one here has this.
We have people who can not read the patents who think they know
because they went to a distinguished college.

We don't want to depend on others for our experimental data. Anyone
not having any first hand testing data is in no position to correct the
students.

I guess I'll have to repeat again. Where is the acknowledgement about
how generators work? Where are the advanced thinker with data who
can confirm normal everyday generator action?

Where is the acknowledgement of the Tesla patent

"COILS FOR ELECTROMAGNETS" if you understand Tesla it is because
you are a gifted thinker, the rest will have to humbly follow blindly
for a while in order to shed the scales from their eyes acquired thru
blindly following false teachings. AKA public schools.

Govt controlled thinking is what we have today, not investigators.
Science is investigation. Most folks here have never done any.






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  #191  
Old 06-18-2019, 10:46 PM
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When a North hard magnet with it's field approaches core material
it is drawn toward the iron block. As the iron block receives flux it
turns into a repelling north magnetic field so just before TDC it
pushes against the hard magnets north field making it hard now to
move foreword.

However in our generator the hard magnet only sees the attraction
of the core material, there is no opposition. Why? These Tesla coils
are wound in such a way as to delay this normal north field response
til after TDC. The energy is collected up into the coil and held there
longer (msec) so the opposition north field occurs as the hard magnet
is leaving the coil cores pole and at this point gets a big big push
in the right direction. Not the other way around.

I am gonna keep saying this and no one is going to back me down. This
is the way it is and all I am doing is holding out a stick to a blind man
the rest will be up to you to ponder thru the day til is takes root.
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  #192  
Old 06-18-2019, 10:51 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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How generators work

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post
... Where is the acknowledgement about
how generators work? ...
This is how generators work.

bi



From: https://www.slideshare.net/mobile/sa...s-applications
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  #193  
Old 06-18-2019, 11:03 PM
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Like I said explain it in your own words based on your experimental
data. Spare us of the endless and meaningless formula copy and
paste out of a book.

I asked for an acknowledgement of certain items discussed and you
paste a formula? Thus you are unable to comprehend the materials
talked about. It's okay you will not be abandoned.

Formulas are great for engineering generators that are on the market
today. These formula's have many augmentations depending on what
size or type a conventional machine that is being produced in a factory.

These version specific formula's do not apply in blanket form to our
application. In our formula's the - minus signed are changed to
+positives.
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  #194  
Old 06-18-2019, 11:42 PM
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Description

It appears you are asking if the description BroMikey gave is what happens in my generator. The answer to that is no. As the rotor magnet approaches the coil, there is no attraction to the iron core that affects either the rotation of the rotor or the rotation, speed or amp draw of the motor. As the rotor magnet leaves the core behind in its rotation there is no attraction to the iron core that affects either the rotation of the rotor or the rotation, speed, or amp draw of the motor. As the rotor magnet approaches the coil core, there is no field generated in the core that repels the approaching magnet, so no effect on the rotation, speed, or amp draw of the motor. As the magnet moves away from the core there is no magnetic field in the coil core that either attracts or repels the magnet that is moving away, so no effect on the speed, rotation or amp draw of the motor.

At all times the amp draw and speed of the rotor is as if the coil or coils did not exist. That is the simplest way to put it. The only work required by the motor is to turn the rotor. That is the advantage of this generator.
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  #195  
Old 06-19-2019, 12:37 AM
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Generators/ Motors

Motors are generators and generators are motors. That does NOT mean that the BEST motor configuration makes the best generator or the best generator configuration makes the best motor. The best motor configuration would be to have six coils on the rotor and six coils on the stator that all aligned at the same time. A simple pulse from four batteries in series through all the coils at the same time into four batteries in parallel would give you the best motor configuration. Then put the parallel batteries in series and the series batteries in parallel and pulse the opposite direction. The amp draw at this high voltage will be minimal and the generator we have talked about here will turn with MINIMAL amp draw, which is the whole purpose of the design.
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  #196  
Old 06-19-2019, 01:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
... As the rotor magnet approaches the coil,
there is no attraction to the iron core that affects either the rotation
of the rotor or the rotation, speed or amp draw of the motor......
so no effect on the rotation, speed, or amp draw of the motor.

At all times the amp draw and speed of the rotor is as if the coil or
coils did not exist
.

That is the simplest way to put it.

The only work required by the motor is to turn the rotor.
That is the advantage of this generator.
Agreed, very simple explanation but for some to simple. All magnets
are attracted to iron cores but as you say not enough to mention as this
does not effect the drive input amp draw.

However if you read the stuff wrote I was speaking about conventional
generator action. The part you talk about pulsing 4 series batt's
thru a motor to 4 parallel batteries is also incomplete. This the part I
have not gotten to yet and I know you are busy and wrote it before.
I just have a hard time following your explanations.

I know you are doing your best to help.
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  #197  
Old 06-19-2019, 01:39 AM
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Here I have stated the same thing.
Outside of this is conventional generator action that
I have been detailing.


Theoretically I could have 400 lb magnets on the
rotor using a one inch thick steel rotor coming into contact with 2" cores
and it wouldn't take anymore drive input as long as cancellation was
perfect.

All that is left is getting the steel rotor mass up to speed whatever that
a steel wheel would need without anything but the wheel itself.

Without the cancelling magnets it might take a huge diesel engine to
turn a generator rotor that big while the other way with the counter
opposing magnets could be turns by someone peddling a bike.

A person using a 10 speed gear from a bike could easily get a 1" thick
15" flywheel rotor turning and with 400lb magnets that would make
a lot of juice. As long as the generator coils were this type the current
would flow and the guy peddling would get a small relief each time
one coil was engaged.

If the coils were conventional the minute current began to flow the
person peddling would not be strong enough to continue.





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  #198  
Old 06-19-2019, 01:55 AM
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Okay let us begin again.

First we start with Turion's generator setup that cancels everything
out twice which is a bad place to start when trying to understand
normal generator action.

To understand Turion's machine we must start with what most schools
teach.The govt schools tell us that a north pole hard magnet approaching
a core and coil induces a north magnetic field into the coil and this
generate electricity the way it's done today.

So there is normal or conventional generator action #1 and there
is the lenz free generator action with all of it's effects #2 and then
there is lenz free generator action WITH counter cancelling magnets
to change everything in the way it effects the drive.

What I noticed over the past 6 years is inventors talk about all 3
at once expecting everyone to follow them. This is because inventors
and builders do not think about the 3 separate functions.

#1 conventional generator action

#2 RegenX generator action

#3 Regenx generator action compounded with cancellation magnets.

Only one man does this that I know of and his name is Thane Heins.
Even Thane does not cover cancellation tho his video work on how
schools teach conventional is helpful to the inquisitive mind.

Confusion seems to rule these threads.

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  #199  
Old 06-19-2019, 03:35 AM
Doogy2Shoes Doogy2Shoes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post
[SIZE="2"][FONT="Arial Narrow"][I][COLOR="Blue"]Doggy
You can't even acknowledge the basic concepts of the Tesla patent
so what business do you have setting yourself as judge jury and
executioner?
Stop changing the subject.

Did I say I was an executioner? We all want Thane Heins or anyone else to succeed at this.

I asked why Thane will not post video proof that he has extended the battery range of the EMMO bike.

You answered that he still needs to 'optimize' it:

"Thanes innovation still requires a specific set of cores and magnets with there geometry to be optimized."
It is generating extra or surplus current. In his own words , "NOT power" (not surplus power) And it is speeding up its RPM without using extra power to speed up.

So he will have extended battery range, after it is optimized.

So we have to figure out a way to translate the increased RPM and
surplus current into either extra electrical power or extra mechanical
power.
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  #200  
Old 06-19-2019, 05:57 AM
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Two very different paths

You cannot mix these two different paths.

One path uses generator coils and opposition or neutralizing magnets. The machine is run by a separate motor, hopefully on the 3 battery system.

The other method is Thane's method where the coil is fired as a motor coil at top dead center. It CANNOT take advantage of the opposition magnets using this process. It has NO NEED for opposition magnets using this process. The magnet is attracted to the core on the way in, and then the coil is fired as a motor coil. There is NO magnetic "lock" because you are firing the coil as a repulsing electromagnet at the moment when the magnetic lock takes place. The rotor magnet "motors" away from the coil.

There is no "mixing" of these two methods. Never has been.

It boils down to which method takes the LEAST amount of power to run while producing the MOST useful power. I know what my generator is capable of producing and how much it takes to run the motor. I have NO IDEA what it takes to run Thane's setup, or what it produces.

Thane will NEVER talk about magnetic neutralization. Never. It has NO PLACE in his design.

With Thane's setup...How much input POWER is needed to fire the electromagnet at the moment of magnetic lock to neutralize the attraction of the magnet to the iron core PLUS create motive force? How much powers used for all the switching? How much power does the generator coil produce as it is approached by the rotor magnet, because it generates NO power as the rotor magnet is moving away. During this phase it is "motoring"

With my setup, how much power is needed to power the motor? 24 volts at 12 amps with my big machine, and less with the smaller machine. How much power does it produce? 1.5 amps per coil at 130 volts x the number of coils on the machine. There are ways to increase the output, but some of them require increased input.

I have NO IDEA which method produces more power. My machine takes advantage of simple mechanical principles. His takes advantage of electronic switching.
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  #201  
Old 06-19-2019, 07:55 AM
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Aul.

Acceleration under load. The first priority must be to prove your motor is 100% efficient, if not any acceleration is just a change in overall performance.
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  #202  
Old 06-19-2019, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doogy2Shoes View Post
Stop changing the subject.

Did I say I was an executioner?
The subject is about your frustrated wet dream thinking that Thane
should be stopped because he is lying to his investors, those are your
words.

Now these are mine "Unless you can answer a few simple quiz problems
on the way books say motor or generator work there is no way you are
going to jump into an advanced discussion on Thanes 3 types of
new processes or the 3 subjects addressing motor action on this thread.

You scream for answers and carry on like a lunatic but when an answer
comes in the form of a question you do not address it.

#1 Did you read the Tesla patent ?
#2 What did you get out of it?

Still waiting for an answer.

Thane's 3 rd process being developed started in 2017 and he is using
2 other forms of recovery. Yes it is going to take time.

Thane said he can get 50amps back while running down the road with
his ebike. The range is unlimited. You got a problem with that nutjob?
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  #203  
Old 06-19-2019, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Quantum_well View Post
Acceleration under load. The first priority must be to prove your motor is 100% efficient, if not any acceleration is just a change in overall performance.
What are you talking about, plz clarify. Do you have one? COP > 20
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  #204  
Old 06-19-2019, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
........hopefully on the 3 battery system.

The magnet is attracted to the core on the way in, and then the coil is fired as a motor coil. There is NO magnetic "lock" because you are firing the coil as a repulsing electromagnet at the moment when the magnetic lock takes place. The rotor magnet "motors" away from the coil.

During this phase it is "motoring"

My machine takes advantage of simple mechanical principles.
His takes advantage of electronic switching.
According to Thane it can motor and generator at the same time
using the circuit shown, and it is simple but hate depending on digital
circuitry when a more direct approach is available.

I like hearing about firing motor coils now. I have not given it much
thought as it applies to my rigs, for now a scooter motor in fine.
Someday I would like to try using 2 coils to motor with and disconnect
the scooter motor while the other 10 generator coils do their thing.

Wouldn't that be something.
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Old 06-19-2019, 11:39 AM
Doogy2Shoes Doogy2Shoes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post


Thane said he can get 50amps back while running down the road with
his ebike. The range is unlimited. You got a problem with that nutjob?
Wake up call, Mikey.
If you think you are helping things with your childishness, think again.
You are making things worse.

Thane has never claimed to have had his modified scooter or his modified ebike out on the road.

More wishful thinking on your part?

He has never driven the modified Hero scooter or the modified EMMO ebike.

I think we can all figure out that if he'd been motoring down the road on the modified Ebike with infinite range and no recharge required, it might have occurred to him to put it on video.

He would have figured out that videoing the event, and Youtubing it as proof, would have helped him to attract a lot of support.

But instead of doing that, Thane told you himself , on Youtube, that there is no increase in power.

You just admitted here yesterday that the design needs to be optimized to actually work.

Yet here you are, right back again today, claiming that Thane was motoring around on he ebike with infinite range?

And when someone tries to get through to you with simple logic, you change the subject and pretend you are above it all.
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  #206  
Old 06-19-2019, 12:46 PM
Doogy2Shoes Doogy2Shoes is offline
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btw, no one reading this thread or posting here is 'carrying on like a lunatic'. with the exception of you
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Old 06-19-2019, 02:19 PM
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Turion Turion is online now
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Motor/Generator

Mikey,
Thane is generating during part of the time and motoring during part of the time as well as collecting the coil collapse from the motoring pulse, so he says it is motoring and generating at the same. Power is either going INTO the coil or it is COMING OUT of the coil. It cannot go both ways at the same time. Every bit of energy put INTO the coil instead of THROUGH the coil (3 Battery system) is wasted energy. YOU know that. Thane does not. He will NEVER recover all the possible energy until he understands running on potential difference.

You are limited by the rotation of the rotor and the field on the magnet as to the possible generating time each magnet can produce. When some of that is used for the motoring phase your generating phase is decreased. That is physics. Collecting the high voltage spike is nothing new. Putting it all together into one machine is awesome, but I am not convinced that his output is more than a simple generator run by a pulse motor on a potential based system using magnetic neutralization. What are his input and output numbers in watts of power consumed and produced? If he can get MORE watts out of a coil than I can get by winding it a specific way, I am all ears. But you will have s hard time convincing me that when he sends a pulse into a motor to drive it as a motor coil and that pulse is LOST by going to ground, and then he collects the collapse of the coil as a high voltage no amperage spike, he gets more than a generator coil run for the entire time possible and run on a motor powered by a potential based system that recovers the energy. Now if Thane were PULSING the coil using a potential based system, I might pay more attention.

Thane has put a lot of time and money into this and I respect that, but until I see numbers, I am sticking with what I already know puts out a specific amount of watts.

Does Thane have patents or just patent applications? Hard to patent increased capacitance from a multifilar coil when Tesla did that already, a few years back and that patent is now in the public domain.
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  #208  
Old 06-19-2019, 02:37 PM
Doogy2Shoes Doogy2Shoes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post

With my setup, how much power is needed to power the motor? 24 volts at 12 amps with my big machine, and less with the smaller machine. How much power does it produce? 1.5 amps per coil at 130 volts x the number of coils on the machine. There are ways to increase the output, but some of them require increased input.

I have NO IDEA which method produces more power. My machine takes advantage of simple mechanical principles. His takes advantage of electronic switching.
nice work.
What is the next step you have planned?
Is there any way you foresee being able to use or store the extra or surplus power generated?
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Old 06-19-2019, 03:20 PM
Doogy2Shoes Doogy2Shoes is offline
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Originally Posted by Turion View Post
until I see numbers, I am sticking with what I already know puts out a specific amount of watts.

Does Thane have patents or just patent applications?
He has patents https://patents.google.com/patent/US20140111054A1/en
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Old 06-19-2019, 04:24 PM
Doogy2Shoes Doogy2Shoes is offline
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Originally Posted by Doogy2Shoes View Post
He has the above ReGenx generator patent allowed a year or two ago, and a very recent ReGenX motor one which is allowed but is filed under secrecy provisions. Presumably this is because they only have U.S. protection and are still in need of patent protection worldwide....

These are encouraging developments to be sure, but ....
no videos proving infinite range yet. It could be possible that Thane
wants to protect himself and the IP because it is so disruptive.

If this is the case, why won't he at least state that it is so.

And if he is so fearful for the security of both himself and his IP
that he refuses to provide enough proof for investors to put big
money in....then he is in limbo.

So lets just assume that he has a monumental breakthrough and is operating in secrecy now.
How many months has he made these claims....and how many months/years has he had, how much time has he had, to spark major backers into getting behind this? Plenty.
And yet there are no major backers.
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Last edited by Doogy2Shoes; 06-19-2019 at 05:23 PM.
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