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  #61  
Old 01-16-2016, 08:37 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is online now
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Core saturation.

@Erfinder,

The important test is what effect increasing core saturation has on the output coil position for AUL. A primary winding can do the job of shifting the output coil position if there's a correlation. Luc's on the test bench with the apparatus so stay off his back!
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  #62  
Old 01-16-2016, 09:13 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is online now
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Air coil core.

@Erfinder,

Air core coils are on the scale of core permeability along with all the other elements. The essential criteria of CMF coil inductance and rotor magnet gauss apply to the air core along with all the other cores.

The ideal core would be a very high permeability ferro-ceramic with low remanence, not an air core. Two wraps, one to control saturation and the other output can add a dynamic control mechanism to the AUL coil. Two diodes, one tunnel for the saturation wrap and a zener for the output feed can automatically regulate an ideal coil core distance from the rotor magnet to sustain acceleration.

The reverse lenz effect stalls out as the accelerating rotor increases the saturation of the core, this includes air, because the increased core saturation retards the wave refection, and throws the timing off. The "Symbionese Diodes" reduce core saturation as the rotor accelerates to keep the acceleration timing on dwell.

Luc is uniquely set up to do the basic special testing for this advanced coil concept, so just keep your shirt on Mr. Erfinder and stay tuned for some exciting advances!
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  #63  
Old 01-16-2016, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotoluc View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr3x0xTqM_k

The coil used in the demo has 5.3 Ohms dc resistance and between 26 to 27mH at any point on the 1/2" round rod core.

Luc
Thanks, that was nicely done. I have done the same experiment but never watched it on the scope.
I think a motor would be a neat thing to try. Like in Tesla'a patent.

Cheers
Matt
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  #64  
Old 01-17-2016, 12:06 AM
gotoluc gotoluc is offline
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Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
Thanks, that was nicely done. I have done the same experiment but never watched it on the scope.
I think a motor would be a neat thing to try. Like in Tesla'a patent.

Cheers
Matt
Glad you liked it Matt

Tesla's motor is now on the building list.

Here are the results of the specially wound coil I showed in the video but did not demonstrate.

Using a wire resistance chart I was able to calculate the coil to be 0.00135 Ohm.
It has 16uH Inductance (on core)

With an amazingly low magnet rotor frequency of 45Hz and coil position at the furthest position on the rod core, 2.3 in. or 58mm away from magnet rotor, when shorting the coil with its own 10AWG 12 inch long wire leads = 0.002 Ohm load resistor, the magnet rotor goes to 46Hz and 37mV RMS is maintained across the coil = .685 Watt
Open coil voltage at 45Hz is 106mV

Regards

Luc
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  #65  
Old 01-17-2016, 12:33 AM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is online now
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Core saturation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
Thanks, that was nicely done. I have done the same experiment but never watched it on the scope.
I think a motor would be a neat thing to try. Like in Tesla'a patent.

Cheers
Matt
@Matthew Jones,

Maybe you could try adding a magnet to the back of the core rod to see how the higher saturation effects the coil location.
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  #66  
Old 01-17-2016, 12:41 AM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is online now
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Gotoluc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erfinder View Post
I have no idea what you want. Which hard work do you reference?

So folks like myself who don't prioritize "proper measurement" aren't working....curious..



The funny thing is you honestly think that the scope is going to show you something.....




yes.....



Yes I have....twice...

Quote from you on OU

"This effect is far from being new as I found out from user Erfinder that The Great Nikola Tesla had developed this in 1894 and was granted a patent (see attached)."

End OU qoute
.

Now the second video is a practical application the concept, far removed from what you find in the patent, far from my demo, JLN's demo, and yours. Now if you are aware of whats going on there....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ovlURyj8T4



You aren't paying attention.....


Regards
@Erfinder,

I agree with you, Luc's a condescending snob who acts like a "Stuck in a Rut" Nazi.
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  #67  
Old 01-17-2016, 12:59 AM
gotoluc gotoluc is offline
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Originally Posted by Allen Burgess View Post
@Erfinder,

I agree with you, Luc's a condescending snob who acts like a "Stuck in a Rut" Nazi.
LOL sychro, that's the best one I've heard in a while

BTW, I tried a magnet on or around the core but nothing special to report.

Regards

Luc
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  #68  
Old 01-17-2016, 01:26 AM
barbosi barbosi is offline
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Dear Luc,

Could you please consider to take your experiments to a separate thread.
I'm sure you and many followers would relish your experimental work.

Turion opened this thread with a candid need to explore for more and I'm sure he realizes now that acceleration under the load was just a trampoline. Many researches are patiently looking forward for unfolding principles and clutter with measurements concerning Faraday vs. Lenz laws are not helping.

Rest assured that if I find interesting your inquiries, I'll be the first to ask questions and defend the neatness of your thread.

Regards.
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  #69  
Old 01-17-2016, 01:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Allen Burgess View Post
@Matthew Jones,

Maybe you could try adding a magnet to the back of the core rod to see how the higher saturation effects the coil location.
You should tune it down a bit. Your turning into an a$$hole real quick. People can do their own experiments or ask others to do them but to trying to insult somebody into working for them is just ignorant. Since you haven't contributed anything why don't you pipe down and gather what you can from whats offered. That would be the good thing to do.

A magnet on the back of the rod will most likely just change the position of the coil as it will prevent saturation any deeper into the rod. Its kinda plain to see if you understand what your working with. To much magnetism will either prevent the effect or put the effect out of scope. Its not hard thing to understand.

Matt
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  #70  
Old 01-17-2016, 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by barbosi View Post
Dear Luc,

Could you please consider to take your experiments to a separate thread.
I'm sure you and many followers would relish your experimental work.

Turion opened this thread with a candid need to explore for more and I'm sure he realizes now that acceleration under the load was just a trampoline. Many researches are patiently looking forward for unfolding principles and clutter with measurements concerning Faraday vs. Lenz laws are not helping.

Rest assured that if I find interesting your inquiries, I'll be the first to ask questions and defend the neatness of your thread.

Regards.
Sure, if that's what Turion wants

Let's see what he has to say.

You seem to have many opinions about me, my work and what is relevant... I wonder why

Thanks for your opinion anyways

Luc

PS still looking forward to your evidence of me applying or paying for any patents.
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  #71  
Old 01-17-2016, 01:47 AM
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That was a comment made by Romerouk....and even though I don't know him, of course I have heard of him, I am in agreement with what he said, hence my immediate reply to his post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erfinder View Post


I like your idea....its practical! How would you go about realizing it?

Regards


That is not a particularly easy question to properly answer. How about I think on this for a few days and acquire some consultation. I think there is a record that needs to be broken.
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  #72  
Old 01-17-2016, 03:23 AM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is online now
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Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
You should tune it down a bit. Your turning into an a$$hole real quick. People can do their own experiments or ask others to do them but to trying to insult somebody into working for them is just ignorant. Since you haven't contributed anything why don't you pipe down and gather what you can from whats offered. That would be the good thing to do.

A magnet on the back of the rod will most likely just change the position of the coil as it will prevent saturation any deeper into the rod. Its kinda plain to see if you understand what your working with. To much magnetism will either prevent the effect or put the effect out of scope. Its not hard thing to understand.

Matt
@Matthew Jones,

Look; What effect do you think accelerating the rotor magnet has on the level of core saturation? If adding a strong enough magnet to the back of the core would cause us to have to reposition the coil, wouldn't additional rotor acceleration move the "Sweet Spot" and throw the timing off?

Winding a high perm ferrite rod core with a D.C. magnetic coil connected to a potentiometer, and raising the core saturation half way would allow the operator to achieve AUL at CMF, then bleed saturation away from the core to balance the additional saturation from the accelerating rotor thereby extending the acceleration period by maintaining the advanced "Lenz Reversed" timing; Plus, Luc's not trying to get it to work!
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  #73  
Old 01-17-2016, 06:04 AM
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Thoughts

We have a bunch of folks here sharing information that benefits ALL of us. So far we have three or four people sharing what they have ACTUALLY done, and while they all do NOT agree, the presentation of information, FACTS if you will, cannot possibly be of harm. It is the folks who ain't done POOP (again with the poop, sorry erfinder) who throw up all the roadblocks.

What will KILL this exchange of information is the same thing that always kills these kinds of threads. Either someone's ego gets bruised because someone was too sarcastic or too insulting, or someone comes into the thread to purposely disrupt things and try to short circuit things by causing conflict or leading everyone down the wrong path purposely.

Here's my philosophy on this kind of research. You can tell me I am stupid, fat, ugly, bald and lazy, and that my mother wears army boots. I don't CARE. I HAVE no ego when it comes to this research because it is just too damn important to let ANYTHING stand in the way. We SHOULD be able to disagree. We SHOULD be able to get pissed off and slam the lid of our laptop and walk away. But we should also have the courage to come back to the fight and keep contributing to the forward momentum that has been made so far. If you choose to take your ball and go home because someone here is an assh#@&, it isn't just the person who offended you that suffers, (you MIGHT even make them happy) it is the whole damn planet. Think about that for just a minute, PLEASE!!!!! I haven't posted in a while because I have NOTHING on my bench that is working right now to share, but I will SOON. So until then I am listening and learning.

There are some sharp people contributing here, and while they do NOT agree, and may be approaching this all from DIFFERENT directions, I believe we have a common purpose. DO we not? I mean if we're not here to make things better, why ARE we here? This planet is in a hell of a mess right now, and the solution to free energy MIGHT be within the grasp of the contributors on THIS forum...on THIS thread.

Louis L'Amour used to write in the western novels he wrote that nothing could stop a man who knew he was in the right and kept on coming. So don't let egos get in the way. Don't listen to naysayers and detractors. Ignore the people who aren't sharing ANY experiments they have done themselves and just want to talk. IGNORE the people who do nothing but post YouTube videos. Let's keep working, and let's not quit or lose focus. Let's ride pardners!

Dave
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  #74  
Old 01-17-2016, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Turion View Post
We have a bunch of folks here sharing information that benefits ALL of us. So far we have three or four people sharing what they have ACTUALLY done, ...

... Let's keep working, and let's not quit or lose focus. Let's ride pardners!
Here, here Dave!


Make it four or five:

Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY


The work I am focusing on is the raw air-core coil as implemented by Dally, Ruslan, Akula and some others.

There are reasons why some of the contributors here approach this subject using mechanical methods and there are reasons why I do not, primarily simplicity. That's not to say we aren't all on the same farm. There is plenty to learn about helical wraps of wire regardless of how there are manipulated.

If you haven't followed that particular thread over at OU, I won't suggest that you start because it is painful at the very least. The basic premise some theorize can happen is that you can mix current from one source with voltage from another and get real power out in watts. Ten years ago I would have said this is complete horse**** nonsense and there are many still around that continue to think this way. Lots of talk about charge carriers, electron spin, hell you name it, someone has tried to spew it.

Going back to basic coil, I have found numerous things you can do that I certainly was never told to be possible, so I didn't even think to try. Then comes along these Russian demonstrations of devices self-looped powering loads with no obvious source of input. What to do? Try the damn thing and find out, it's the only way to know. Well I did and sank like a rock after several attempts because I had no clue what I was doing. This time is going to be different. I'm starting with the basics and slowly methodically moving forward, testing and probing at every possible angle to find something else I didn't know I could do. Because in the end I will either figure it out or die trying. No gimics, no hype, just scenarios and observations. I've witnessed enough already to know there is a lot more going on with a simple piece of wire than meets the eye. Anymore I have a hard time referring to any form of conductor as a passive component. It's almost as though it has inherent intelligence and it will trick you left and right if you let it.
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  #75  
Old 01-17-2016, 02:41 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is online now
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Core magnets.

@Gotoluc,

Quote from Luc:

"BTW, I tried a magnet on or around the core but nothing special to report"

I know you have plenty of magnets. Keep stacking them on untill it helps to reposition the coil. Trust me; This may turn out to be important. Try switching the polarity. Simply passing a single magnet "Around the core" ain't gonna cut it!

Mario Savio of the Berkley free speech movement stated: "Use of vulgarity is permissible when it draws attention to a more important issue".
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  #76  
Old 01-17-2016, 05:26 PM
Bob Smith Bob Smith is offline
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Maybe I'm wrong, but what keeps coming to me is that the primary coil should have a high impedance. This can be done with a core, but as Erfinder says, a core is not needed. A higher gauge wire and high number of turns should do it, I would think; shorting the coil also hugely increases its impedance, does it not?

With a high impedance primary, there should be a larger induced voltage spike from the passing magnet, and an accompanying larger CEMF response.

Any thoughts?
Bob
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Old 01-18-2016, 01:08 AM
gotoluc gotoluc is offline
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Okay, we can stop this now, it's gone far enough.
I must admit the reality of AUL effect is not as good as it looked in my video demo, which I purposely did to demonstrate what many are seeing in their tests and as a learning tool for those who play around with this stuff.
I know better not to use a solid steel rod, a bolt, welding rods, or even for that matter transformer laminations. Unless you want to show or demonstrate this effect just to waste power.

Core Hysteresis is what causes AUL and it comes at a cost to the prime mover.

When you use quality cores like Metglas, 90% or more of AUL goes away.
However, the phase shift you saw in the video by sliding the coil further away on the core still remains and I would suggest this is what needs to be further tested (obviously with the right cores) to see if this has any advantages.

I will post a new video demonstrating the reality of AUL when using Metglas core compared to a solid steel core.
Some of you will be surprised of how drastic the change is.

I'm sorry if this has caused some people grief or trouble. My intention is to bring awareness on the subject which has been highly debated over the years.

Stay tuned for the comparison test

Luc
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  #78  
Old 01-18-2016, 03:44 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is online now
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Originally Posted by gotoluc View Post
Okay, we can stop this now, it's gone far enough.
I must admit the reality of AUL effect is not as good as it looked in my video demo, which I purposely did to demonstrate what many are seeing in their tests and as a learning tool for those who play around with this stuff.
I know better not to use a solid steel rod, a bolt, welding rods, or even for that matter transformer laminations. Unless you want to show or demonstrate this effect just to waste power.

Core Hysteresis is what causes AUL and it comes at a cost to the prime mover.

When you use quality cores like Metglas, 90% or more of AUL goes away.
However, the phase shift you saw in the video by sliding the coil further away on the core still remains and I would suggest this is what needs to be further tested (obviously with the right cores) to see if this has any advantages.




I will post a new video demonstrating the reality of AUL when using Metglas core compared to a solid steel core.
Some of you will be surprised of how drastic the change is.

I'm sorry if this has caused some people grief or trouble. My intention is to bring awareness on the subject which has been highly debated over the years.

Stay tuned for the comparison test

Luc
@Gotoluc,

Quote from you:

"Core Hysteresis is what causes AUL and it comes at a cost to the prime mover".

Here's a quick review of some basic fundamentals:

1.- "The permeability of a material changes with the amount of magnetic flux forced through it".

2.- "The specific relationship of force to flux (field intensity H to flux density B) is graphed in a form called the normal magnetization curve".

3.- "It is possible to apply so much magnetic field force to a ferromagnetic material that no more flux can be crammed into it. This condition is known as magnetic saturation".

4.- "When the retentivity of a ferromagnetic substance interferes with its re-magnetization in the opposite direction, a condition known as hysteresis occurs".

You state that 90% of the AUL goes away with the Metglas core. The Metglas B-H curve describes a proportional relationship between saturation and hysteresis; Therefore, it should be possible to control AUL with an electro-magnetic winding around the Metglas core! Increasing saturation of the Metglas core with an electro-magnetic winding should increase hysteresis and help augment AUL.

This would add negative efficiency to the system with a second power supply to the electro-magnetic core winding; However, a self powering loop from the output coil to the core winding controlled by zener and tunnel type diodes would result in a push; Because the power to dampen the core would come from the increased output from the acceleration, right?

The advantage of this control mechanism would come from the ability to bleed saturation away from the core as the additional rotor accelerated saturation appeared; Balancing the (saturation-hysteresis) level would help keep the wave reflected timing on position, and widen the acceleration window! That's the beauty of the tunnel diode!

Looping output from the pickup coil to the electro-magnetic core winding would saturate the metglas core with a synchronous A.C. current. Testing would require a synchronous A.C. input as well, not D.C. as I initially proposed which would fight the diametric rotor magnet with a static core polarity.
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  #79  
Old 01-18-2016, 05:39 PM
barbosi barbosi is offline
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@Luc

Dude, I think I understand your confusion. You have missed few episodes from the “Free Energy” series. Not only that but you missed all the re-runs. There were with people like Tesla, Naudin, Thane, whoopy, Steorn, and all were excited about AUL (well Tesla was actually kind of aloof).

Then Erfinder comes and tells us “Previously on Free Energy...” and makes a quick review on the old series. He also gives us a quick peek and as it turns out, AUL is not going to be part of the plot anymore. Got it? Got it? Got it I ask ya?
MAN, a new serie is about to begin. New episodes!

And now after few attempts to dry your laundry on the optic fiber cable you come and say “I'm sorry if this has caused some people grief or trouble”?

Good, have a seat and be quiet. I cannot agree with you when you say “Okay, we can stop this now, it's gone far enough.” We cannot stop now, we need more. I heard the new serie is going to be interactive.

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Old 01-18-2016, 05:58 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is online now
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Metglas core saturation.

@Gotoluc,

The simplest and most effective testing approach would be to run the A.C. coil output through an A.C. lighting rheostat into the electro-magnetic Metglas core winding to regulate the (hysteresis-saturation) level. This way, the core polarity will oscillate synchronously with the rotor magnet. The core winding would substitute for the resistor load and could be wound to matching Ohmic resistance for maximum AUL. This basic adaptation should help control and extend the acceleration window!
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  #81  
Old 01-19-2016, 03:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Smith View Post
Maybe I'm wrong, but what keeps coming to me is that the primary coil should have a high impedance. This can be done with a core, but as Erfinder says, a core is not needed. A higher gauge wire and high number of turns should do it, I would think; shorting the coil also hugely increases its impedance, does it not?

With a high impedance primary, there should be a larger induced voltage spike from the passing magnet, and an accompanying larger CEMF response.

Any thoughts?
Bob
Hi Bob,

By primary, you mean the prime mover coil, correct? Just want to make sure we're on the same page. Maybe bi or multifilar? I just finished testing modified coil driver circuit with very good BEMF recovery and my coil has only two windings of 2.85mH each but when connected together it measures 11.15mH. I'm filling 10uF/400V cap and discharging into various larger capacitors (1,500uF and up). When done right (right timing) it doesn't have any effect on the input or speed. There is a lot of power which can be obtained and recycled into the system from that one little coil and it is free.

Regards
V
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  #82  
Old 01-19-2016, 03:44 AM
Bob Smith Bob Smith is offline
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Hi V,
I think we're on the same page, though I'm only at the stage of conjecture on applying my findings with a high impedance coil in a different pulsed circuit. You've moved much further ahead than I and I admire your work. Thanks for sharing your findings along with the photo.

Perhaps others more knowledgeable and skilled than myself will have more comments or questions.
Bob
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Old 01-19-2016, 04:12 AM
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If anyone is interested in my second video demo, you can join me at my OU forum topic. If you're not a member just register and send me a PM and I'll have you approved faster.
I have moderator privileges there and keep my topics clean.

Study of Generator Coil Acceleration Under Load (moderated)
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Old 01-19-2016, 06:25 AM
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Thoughts

erfinder,

the more time I spend looking at this, the more I hope I am beginning to understand where you are coming from. I need to get a machine in front of me that is working so I can observe the same things you are observing. That is my goal at present. It may take me a while, as I have a ton on my plate, but I will get there.

Dave
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Old 01-19-2016, 07:48 AM
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erfinder,

the more time I spend looking at this, the more I hope I am beginning to understand where you are coming from. I need to get a machine in front of me that is working so I can observe the same things you are observing. That is my goal at present. It may take me a while, as I have a ton on my plate, but I will get there.

Dave
Same here. I managed to put together similar setup. Waiting for magnets and calculating what size and length of wire should I use.

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  #86  
Old 01-19-2016, 07:51 AM
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Thoughts

Self induction (with inductive reactance), mutual induction, and phase shift.

You showed us a simple example of phase shift, but I am looking at other way to accomplish that. Specifically, the use of coil pairs that when connected in series would produce the phase shift in relation to another coil pair connected in parallel, or to a single coil while the other coil of the pair is a generator coil. With the option of switching from parallel to series and series to parallel.
The two coils in the coil pair would probably have different length and size of wire, but possibly not. I am looking at a device without permanent magnets or coil cores, which would allow more specific control than a permanent magnet setup would. I can see how some of the things I have done with the 3BGS setup might come into play here as far as circuits are involved. I haven't thought it all through, which is why I need to get something built.

I could be in left field, but that's where I my thinking has taken me. I never claimed to be smart, just persistent.

Dave
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Old 01-19-2016, 08:13 AM
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What would happen if we have one winding (layer) done in opposite direction to the others?

Just thinking.

V
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Old 01-19-2016, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by erfinder View Post
You said you are beginning to understand where I am coming from. Instead of filling me in, you demonstrate that you don't understand
You still have my attention. You have informed me of where you are going, now that this off your chest, please.....tell me where you think I coming from.

Regards
Since you have already determined that I do not understand where you are coming from, I won't waste my time or yours.
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Old 01-19-2016, 09:58 AM
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Jeff Wilson (Bit's-n-Bytes) built what was dubbed "the Wilson coil", it fits the description of coil in your question. Jeff was giving out signed copies (LOL) of schematics of his two cap pulser design at the 2010 conference. Maybe someone here has a copy they can upload for you. I have not been able to locate it here on the forum.

The reason why I post this is because we don't appreciate each other. Many questions which are being asked here and else where have already been answered. Many concepts being revisited, have already been beat to death. I mean no one any disrespect, if my responses come over harsh, the same old same old is taking its toll.

That's a really nice and clean model.

Regards
Yes, that's the one I had in mind. I have built Jeff's TVA and also have his "Pulsinator" device. I have circuits diagrams copies as I kept and archived most relevant posts from Tesla Switch thread. I thought it may be useful. Wrong guess.

One question; when you have mentioned proper geometry, is it about angular offset balancing in order to reduce cogging or something totally different?

Thanks
V
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Last edited by blackchisel97; 01-19-2016 at 10:10 AM. Reason: edit
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Old 01-19-2016, 01:39 PM
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Moderated thread.

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If anyone is interested in my second video demo, you can join me at my OU forum topic. If you're not a member just register and send me a PM and I'll have you approved faster.
I have moderator privileges there and keep my topics clean.

Study of Generator Coil Acceleration Under Load (moderated)
Gotoluc's inviting everyone to join him on his Overunity thread where he has the power to personally delete your comments if he sees fit. He's no longer interested in commenting about the topic on the Energetic forum because he can't act like a Nazi dictator over here.

I was severly sanctioned off Gotoluc's "Moderated OU Thread" and can't even comment on any of the numerous, broadly audienced threads I initiated over the years due to his excessively strict standards! Luc recruited Citfta for first sergeant, and all she's done at OU is chronically defecate on the Energetic forum.
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