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  #1  
Old 12-24-2015, 03:43 AM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Oscillating Reed Switch Pulse Motor.

I'm starting this thread to help OrionLightShip replicate the "Oscillating Reed Switch Pulse Motor". I'll be available to anyone else who cares to follow along.

Firstly, let me stress that high speed magnet spinning is potentially lethal if proper safety precautions are not followed. I advise spinning inside a PVC coupling; Much thicker material then the pipe itself. I used the 2 1/2 inch diameter coupling. This thick walled material is ample protection against shattering, and should be the first item on your shopping list.

I used one CD on the top, but gluing two or three together might make more sense. The CD's need a hole close enough to the diameter of the thread spool pulse coil to fit snugly, but loose enough to push and pull the coil up and down a few millimeters each way for positioning. The CD's need to be free to slide around over the top of the coupling a little also.The Reed switch always remains fixed in position on the coil with strong glue. Naturallly, the open bottem of the PVC coupling should be facing a strong table top. This creates a complete safety enclosure. A tiny window can be cut in the side of the PVC coupling to allow for "Laser Taching" the rotor speed. We could drill a hole there to plug the "Laser Tach Lens" directly into, and build a support to hold the meter up off to the side. No shatter framents to get through that way either!
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  #2  
Old 12-24-2015, 04:00 AM
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Ok thanks, I'll start reading the link you provided and try to get up to speed. I assume from the above post that we will spinning a neoball or something....what are the specifications for that?
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Old 12-24-2015, 04:19 AM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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These are pictures of perhaps the World's first Internaly Motorized Alternator, minus the output wrap.

Left to right:

1- View of the 3/4 inch spinner in the 2 1/2 inch PVC core.
2- Miniature 1/4 O.D. , 1/8 I.D. all ceramic bearing on top of a Radio Shack 12 volt 6 amp hour battery.
3- Position of the 12 volt Reed Switch on the Hi Voltage Spool Coil. Pins should point away from the magnet..
4- Top secured for runing with coil seated down partly inside the output core.
5- The six main componants: Power coil on core, 1/8 inch brass axel, ceramic bearing, battery and Reed Switch.
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Old 12-24-2015, 04:28 AM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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K@J magnetics

RC4CDIA

3/4" od x 1/4" id x 3/4" thick
Nickel Plated
Diametrically Magnetized

$9.81

https://www.kjmagnetics.com/products.asp?cat=16

We'll be spinning this 3/4" diametric tube magnet with over 20 pounds of pull force! You might want to order two for the same shipping cost. Don't worry about reading that link, it's too eclectic.
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Old 12-24-2015, 04:57 AM
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Ok, I have two coming.
Have to go to Lowes tomorrow so I'll pick up the heavy duty coupling while I'm there.
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Old 12-24-2015, 05:10 AM
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is the shaft a brass brazing rod?
and how to source the coil?
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Old 12-24-2015, 01:16 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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1/8" Brass axle rod.

Here's a 1/8" industrial strength rod from ebay; Any local hadware store should stock this kind of industrial rod: This is not a welding rod.

NEW K&S Solid Brass Rod 1/8 8164 NIB
$1.42
Buy It Now
4 watching
|
843 sold
Stock# - k+sr8164 mfg# - 8164. This is the 1/8" Solid Brass Rod from K Precision Metals. K Solid Brass Rod 3/32. K Solid Brass Rod 5/32. K 1/16 Solid Brass Rod (3) K Round Brass Tube
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Old 12-24-2015, 01:28 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Thread spool coil form.

Here's a picture of the kind of thread spool you'll need to wind the wire coil on: These spools come in different sizes. A medium size spool gauged from the pictures should be available in a craft shop without the string.

Next you see the Radio Shack Magnet wire set. We're going to use the "Red Wire".
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Old 12-24-2015, 01:42 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Reed Switches and Alarm Battery.

While you're at Radio Shack, try and pick up "5" of these kind of 12 volt Reed switches:

RadioShack® SPST 1AMP 12V Reed Relay
Catalog #: 2750233
$3.99

Fast response, small size and low cost make this 0.5 amp relay a good choice for robotics, computer interfacing and projects that require several relays. • Maximum switching power of 10 (Watt/VA) • Maximum switching voltage of 60 VDC, 120VAC • Maximum switching current of 0.5 A • Maximum initial contact resistance of 150m ohms

Try and buy one of these 12 volt rechargeable alarm batteries too while your're at Radio Shack:

Universal Power® 12V, 7Ah Lead-Acid Alarm Battery:
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Old 12-24-2015, 03:35 PM
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tinycad

Yes... very contagious, love working on these smaller projects. Allen is this schematic how we are connecting everything up, or is there a need for the reed relay?

Reed Motor Schematic.jpg

Cool - Patrick



Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen Burgess View Post
These are pictures of perhaps the World's first Internaly Motorized Alternator, minus the output wrap.

Left to right:

1- View of the 3/4 inch spinner in the 2 1/2 inch PVC core.
2- Miniature 1/4 O.D. , 1/8 I.D. all ceramic bearing on top of a Radio Shack 12 volt 6 amp hour battery.
3- Position of the 12 volt Reed Switch on the Hi Voltage Spool Coil. Pins should point away from the magnet..
4- Top secured for runing with coil seated down partly inside the output core.
5- The six main componants: Power coil on core, 1/8 inch brass axel, ceramic bearing, battery and Reed Switch.
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Old 12-24-2015, 03:44 PM
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Oh, what is the gauge, total resistance, core width and height of the coil you made? Not the spools core, the actual core size of the wire. I think that wood spool does not allow the wire to have such a small core size.

It looks like the spool you used is much shorter than the one you have in this picture, could be the angle of the photo...
Thanks,
Patrick


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Originally Posted by Allen Burgess View Post
While you're at Radio Shack, try and pick up "5" of these kind of 12 volt Reed switches:

RadioShack® SPST 1AMP 12V Reed Relay
Catalog #: 2750233
$3.99

Fast response, small size and low cost make this 0.5 amp relay a good choice for robotics, computer interfacing and projects that require several relays. • Maximum switching power of 10 (Watt/VA) • Maximum switching voltage of 60 VDC, 120VAC • Maximum switching current of 0.5 A • Maximum initial contact resistance of 150m ohms

Try and buy one of these 12 volt rechargeable alarm batteries too while your're at Radio Shack:

Universal Power® 12V, 7Ah Lead-Acid Alarm Battery:
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Old 12-24-2015, 03:45 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THEminoly View Post
Oh, what is the gauge, total resistance, core width and height of the coil you made? Not the spools core, the actual core size of the wire. I think that wood spool does not allow the wire to have such a small core size.

It looks like the spool you used is much shorter than the one you have in this picture, could be the angle of the photo...
Thanks,
Patrick
@Minoly,

The magnet wire is 26 gauge. I can't answer those other questions. Anything should work keeping in general proportion. The important feature is the series connected bifilar wrap.
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Last edited by Allen Burgess; 12-24-2015 at 03:54 PM.
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Old 12-24-2015, 04:14 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Precision ceramic bearings.

Hello Richard,

Thank you for your email. I show you ordered 2 different full ceramic bearings from us. The part numbers are:

R144-T9/P58 LD ZRO2 (.125x.250x.093) - $48.95 each.

R144-TP/C3 Z/S #5 AF2 (.125x.250x.093) - $79.95 each.

Sorry, I am not able to offer this size flanged in a full ceramic type. Feel free to contact me with any other questions.

Michael Rudinsky
Boca Bearing Company
1420 Neptune Drive, Suite A
Boynton Beach, FL 33426
info@bocabearings.com
PH: 561-998-0004/ 800-332-3256
Fax: 561-998-0119/ 800-409-9191
Boca Bearing Company :: Ceramic Bearing Specialists
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMTVv5qpbUY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBxH...k&noredirect=1


Here's a picture of the less expensive one below. The costlier model is made from different materials for longevity, and not worth it for the running times involved.

R144-T9/P58 LD ZRO2 (.125x.250x.093) - $48.95 each.

Fitting these bearings on the brass axle requires a small amount of sanding. That completes the parts list!
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Old 12-24-2015, 04:44 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Schematic.

@Minoly,

The schematic looks pretty good. I'm sorry I can't supply you with the actual core dimension of the thread spool and the Ohmic resistance of the windings. The original coil's out of reach, in a storage locker back in Northern California.
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Old 12-24-2015, 04:59 PM
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OrionLightShip OrionLightShip is offline
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shaft bushing

From the picture with the magnet mounted on the shaft, it appears you have a plastic bushing?
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Old 12-24-2015, 05:14 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrionLightShip View Post
From the picture with the magnet mounted on the shaft, it appears you have a plastic bushing?
@OrionLightShip,

That was just a prop for the photograph. The axle holes are drilled midway through the coupling on the perpendicular, and one hole should be a little undersized to squeeze fit the sanded axle. The other photo anomaly is the position of the Reed switch pins. The pins actually face in the opposite direction, away from the coil. Approching the stationary rotor magnet with power connected to the normally open Reed switch can cause the contacts to close and weld shut. This can happen when starting the motor. You need to spin the rotor first by hand, then connect the power and approach the magnet with the Reed switch and coil while the rotor's spinning only!
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Old 12-24-2015, 05:38 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Fitting the bearings.

A level of "Chinese Style" craftsmanship is needed to fit the axle and bearings into the coupling. Don't bring glue of any kind anywhere near the ceramic bearings! Here's how I suggest you go about it:

You need to cut the brass rod down to under a foot to handle it; The ends need to be sanded to allow the 1/8" I.D. ceramic bearings to slip over the rod from each end. The center of the rod should have a 3/4" inch center section left with the original 1/8" thickness for the the bearings to snug fit onto.

One of the holes through the PVC coupling needs to be smaller then the other. The smaller hole needs to be small enough hold the sanded end of the axle rod tight. The larger hole can be exactly 1/8" inch to allow the thicker center portion to pass through. Everything holds together by highly toleranced pressure. Do not apply pressure to the bearings latteraly from the top. Use a (Toothpick) tool to move them sideways only from the lower bushing!

Finishing; The axle needs to be cut so that the far end is short enough to pass completely through the larger hole, before the thicker center part hits the smaller hole on the other side. This allows us to get the last bearing on. So, the axle goes through into the the tube rotor, then the far bearing goes on; Then the tail end of the axle needs to be short enough to push all the way through the first hole to mount the second bearing before the thicker center section hits the other wall. Then it comes back through and everything tightens up.

The rotor tube magnet specifications state that the I.D. bore hole is 1/4". Actually, the dimension is larger to allow for a 1/4" insertion.

The magnet rotor will sail for a very long time with a tiny push. You'll be amazed by the length of "free wheeling time" if you succeed at mounting the rotor this way on the ceramic bearings. Deep satisfaction reward!
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Old 12-24-2015, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen Burgess View Post
A level of "Chinese style" craftsmanship is needed to fit the axle and bearings in the coupling. Don't bring glue of any kind close to the ceramic bearings. Here's how I suggest you go about it:

You need to cut the brass rod down to under a foot to handle it; The ends need to be sanded to allow the ceramic bearings to slip over the rod from each end. The center of the rod should have a 3/4" inch center section of the original 1/8" thickness for the the bearings to snug fit onto.

I'm not sure I'm up to the task here since this is not reduced to cookie cutter. I'm not what you would call a highly skilled builder by any means. I don't have any hope, with the information given, that I would be able to replicate what you have accomplished.

I'd rather opt for a cooperative venture, send my magnets and a hundred bucks to Patrick and let him share the results....

what say you Patrick?

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Old 12-24-2015, 06:55 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrionLightShip View Post
I'm not sure I'm up to the task here since this is not reduced to cookie cutter. I'm not what you would call a highly skilled builder by any means. I don't have any hope, with the information given, that I would be able to replicate what you have accomplished.

I'd rather opt for a cooperative venture, send my magnets and a hundred bucks to Patrick and let him share the results....

what say you Patrick?

@OrionLightShip,

The brass sands down very easily. You can buy individual drill bits. It's not that hard to manage. Sleep on it. You can do it Pal!
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Old 12-24-2015, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen Burgess View Post
@OrionLightShip,

The brass sands down very easily. You can buy individual drill bits. It's not that hard to manage. Sleep on it. You can do it Pal!

Perhaps I'm just panicky I'm in the middle of an electrostatic build and my work space in this apartment is tiny. I will be slow on the go at best, logistics of taking care of my Mother takes up a lot more of my time than I thought it would. I know...excuse excuses....well onward. I just need to take things one step at a time.

My offer to Patrick still stands though!
I think a lot of great things could be accomplished through working in coop groups instead of everyone taking the shotgun approach to things.
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Old 12-24-2015, 09:05 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Drill holes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OrionLightShip View Post
Perhaps I'm just panicky I'm in the middle of an electrostatic build and my work space in this apartment is tiny. I will be slow on the go at best, logistics of taking care of my Mother takes up a lot more of my time than I thought it would. I know...excuse excuses....well onward. I just need to take things one step at a time.

My offer to Patrick still stands though!
I think a lot of great things could be accomplished through working in coop groups instead of everyone taking the shotgun approach to things.
@OrionLightShip,

A 3/32" drill bit along with the 1/8", allows 1/32" to sand from the brass rod to slip the bearing over and 1/32" of extra material left in the small PVC hole to pressure the end of the axle rod. By placing the brass axle rod in an electric drill chuck, it only takes about three seconds to sand that much brass away with fine grit metal sand paper. The 3/32" drill bit is the only extra piece of equipment you need to buy, then everything snap fits together like Legos. A hacksaw blade would help too. Don't forget, the length of the finished axle is under 3" in length. This means you only need to sand 1" of rod on each end! Patience and attention to detail will pay dividends. There's hardly any real work involved! I covered all the pitfalls! I could finish this project in around ten minutes with all the tools and parts in place.
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Old 12-24-2015, 10:53 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Brass axle.

The finished brass axle is merely three inches long. Only one inch on each end needs to be sanded down a tiny amount. That's all that's required to finish the axle. You can drill an eighth inch hole on each end of the PVC coupling and shim the ends up afterwards with tiny toothpick slivers to keep the axle fixed in position. This is not hard to do!

You simply thread the rotor first with the axle followed by a bearing on the inside of the coupling, then you pass the axle through the first hole, and slip the second bearing on and re-seat the axle back into the first hole; Then you press the bearings into the tube magnet holes and over the axle thickness, by pushing on the bottem of the bearings with a hard toothpick.
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Old 12-25-2015, 12:09 AM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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The single bearing option.

I ruined three bearings, two from glue and a third from lateral pressure. I did alot of spinning on the sole remaining bearing alone. The force of gyroscopic precession tends to make the magnet tube want to travel laterally. It's going to try and loosen one of the two bearings depending on the direction of spin. I found that one single bearing alone, slipped over one sanded side of the axle, and butted up against the thickened portion and centered so the force of precession works in the direction of the thick side of the axle, will work as well or maybe even better then two. Inertial stability seems to overcome the force of precession with speed. Better to start with two bearings though. I thought of ways to deal with this, like tiny cotter pin wires, and miniature "C" ring clamps, but never got around to it. I'm sure ther're even better ways to do it I haven't thought of, and I'd sure like to see someone think a better way up. These kinds of bearings perform exceptionally, although they're just a little tricky to work with for now. My approach is satisfactory, but not perfect.
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Old 12-25-2015, 07:27 AM
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Ideas

Not trying to toss in a wrench, but here are a couple ideas that may help you out with this build if you decide to go BIGGER some day, and may help with other projects you have in mind for the future.

Options for larger build - YouTube

Dave
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Old 12-25-2015, 12:46 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Larger bearings.

@Turion,

Thanks for the input. I spent nearly all my time focusing on the problems associated with mounting and running the precision ceramic bearings, but I can assure you and everyone else that your "Outsized" version will only reach a small fraction of the top end speed!

The oscillating Reed switch has no upward speed limit. The only other way to spin in the upper "Mach" ranges would be to use a bearingless spinner. The 3/4" tube could spin in a divited dish on a ball bearing, but shielding from shattering while controlling the Reed switch oscillation gap would create a problem. Mounting the Reed switch on a remote controlled gimbal, and covering the unit with a transparent lid would work.

The rotor magnet flux strengthens as the neo-spinner speeds up, requiring a small distance adjustment in the Reed switch and coil to sustain the oscillation. Hyper relativistic effects can be witnessed at super fast spin rates. Those heavy bearings stand zero chance of spinning a rotor up in that range. The ceramic bearings would reach ten times the R.P.M. enclosed in the safety of the protective PVC housing. I believe the Reed switch in oscillation can outperform the transistor!
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Old 12-25-2015, 01:29 PM
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I understand the large bearing issues, but even small ceramics have a bit of drag, the beauty is they do not heat up adding to the drag.

The best solution for any size with unrestricted rotation is magnetic bearings. Of course purchased they are through the roof expensive, but simple ones can be built for near nothing and if you have access to a 3d printer they can be built really quick and really easy. Small high powered neo's are real cheap.

I have no concept of what "Hyper relativistic effects" means, but it sounds like you need some speed. Magnetic bearings and possibly air shielding you should be able to go fast no matter the size.

I would be willing to help if someone wanted to try.

Just my two cents

Also I would like to see a schematic if thats no problem I still fail understand what is supposed to happen.

Matt
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Old 12-25-2015, 02:23 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Magnetic bearings.

@MatthewJones,

3d printed magnetic bearings is something that sounds very interesting. 3d printing a ceramic bearing axle with bushings might be an even bigger help. There's really no problem with the build that I outlined!

One of the "relativistic" effects I demonstrated in one of my videos was neo sphere weight gain with high speed spin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_atlyEC7o4

There's a schematic attached below:
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Old 12-25-2015, 02:36 PM
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I am working on the model now, magnets shouldn't exceed $10 dollars + shipping, can be 3d printed or cut from bread board via cnc.
Should have a working model in weak or 2, shipping holidays ect...

Do you have a link to the video? Or any videos that pertain. I am kinda simple. I need to see it function or at minimum plans, schematic, ect...then I can build it.

Cheers
Matt
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Old 12-25-2015, 02:45 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Build schematic.

@Matthew Jones,

There's nothing to the circuit! It's just a Reed switch in series with a bifilar coil and battery. There would be nothing to see in a video because it's totally enclosed. Go back and look at post #3 with the five pictures: The power to the coil passes directly through the Reed switch. There's nothing more to it, that's it! It's infernally simple!

I'll be here to help guide you through the build. I'm thrilled that you're undertaking a replication.

Enlarge the picture below, there's a nice view of the coil, but what you see there is all of it! The six main componants: Power coil on core, 1/8 inch brass axel, ceramic bearing, battery and Reed Switch.
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Old 12-25-2015, 03:16 PM
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I think I get it, I didn't realize the reed was the switch. Whats the specs on the coil?

Matt
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