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  #1  
Old 06-01-2008, 01:13 PM
bobo36us bobo36us is offline
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Gravity Power Anyone???

You must click on all three. Short and easy reads.

http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/free1.htm
http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/free2.htm
http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/free3.htm

Thoughts?????
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  #2  
Old 06-01-2008, 09:39 PM
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gmeat gmeat is offline
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hi Bob,


I dont believe that would work because the electric pump would just be a circulating system whatever you pump out will cause all of the containers to want to collapse.

-Gary
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Old 06-01-2008, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobo36us View Post
Don't know how much energy you can get from those 3 waterwheels, but you are dealing more with atmospheric pressure & the weight of the water than with gravity. However, that is an interesting concept. You might want to hook a mechanical pump in somewhere that the waterwheels powered without an electric motor. I saw one years ago that you initially spun the wheel by hand & it then ran on it's own from the weight of the water hitting it & the inertia of the wheel(acted like a big flywheel). This was a wheel approx. 6' in diam. which I saw run for years on it's own. You could probably use a hand crank on the exposed end of the 1st shaft to get it started.
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Old 06-02-2008, 12:37 AM
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Chip Shorter Chip Shorter is offline
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I think Dr. Lindemann is doing research on Johann Bessler who in 1712 had a self running gravity wheel. It ran for 54 days.
Also Nebojsa Simin has a pendulum that is claimed highly efficient/OU. Gravity like magnets is always on.
Seems to me if we couple these with devices that we know of on this board to be highly efficient we could go OU very easily.
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Old 06-02-2008, 01:47 AM
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selamatg selamatg is offline
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This other Idea.....

Hi All,

Here is the other idea without using any pump...this will continue flow and you can built as scale as you want...

Sorry this only quick drawing...

Step one as pic 1.jpg

Fill up the tank with 80% of the capacity (left 20% for air) all must be sealed..
close all valve (1-4 valve) all pipe use same size ..for 55 gallon drum size your maximum pipe size should be 5/8"

step two as pic 2.jpg

open valve #1, fill up the pipe as picture shown then close the valve back.

Step three as pic. 3.jpg

Open valve #2 full then open valve #3 slowly..wait for a few second till decrease the flow from valve #3 ( I recommend between 5-10 second for 55 gallon drum size) to create vacuum condition.

Step four as pic.4.jpg

Open valve #4....then you will have water flowing from inlet pipe to the thank and the output flow from the thank increasing by slowly....

the flow is depend of how long the inlet pipe..I'll recommend no more than 10 mtr below the tank.


Hope you all understand with the explanation because English is not my first language.

Regards,

Selamatg
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  #6  
Old 06-03-2008, 05:53 PM
Jan H Jan H is offline
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how about the energy needed for the pump to fight the air trying to get in?

this sounds too good to be true guys.
Is there an actual movie of this machine? Because drawing with paint is one thing. Making something actually work is another.
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Old 06-05-2008, 03:30 AM
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That really work

Hi,

I have seen that system work about 15 years ago....
There is in small village in East Java.

I hope not any miss with my drawing.

Also I have made the small replication 1 year after and work too..
Using 6 liter water tank and 4mm water hose



Regards,

Selamatg
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Old 06-05-2008, 01:24 PM
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So, if I understand correctly, the gravity pulls the water out form the big tank, creating vacuum in the same time. The vacuum then pulls the water up form the other pipe and refills the tank and so on. In other words we have a water pump, that works forever? Did I understand right?
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Old 06-05-2008, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetijs View Post
So, if I understand correctly, the gravity pulls the water out form the big tank, creating vacuum in the same time. The vacuum then pulls the water up form the other pipe and refills the tank and so on. In other words we have a water pump, that works forever? Did I understand right?
Hi Jetijs,

You are right, that how the work...continue as the vacuum stay there, in other word no leaking in the system. but the important thing is do not open valve #4 before you sure vacuum create in the tank by looking the low flow from valve #3 or you can put vacuum gauge on top of the tank.

regards,
Selamatg
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Old 06-05-2008, 05:24 PM
Jan H Jan H is offline
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how can the vacuum created by the water be strong enough to lift up water that is positioned lower than the main tank?
I'm sorry if i sound skeptical, but I still find it hard to believe that a bottle and a hose can win the one watt challenge.
Because if it does what you say it does. Than hooking up a water wheel-generator on the flow would be a piece of cake.
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Old 06-05-2008, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan H View Post
how can the vacuum created by the water be strong enough to lift up water that is positioned lower than the main tank?
I'm sorry if i sound skeptical, but I still find it hard to believe that a bottle and a hose can win the one watt challenge.
Because if it does what you say it does. Than hooking up a water wheel-generator on the flow would be a piece of cake.
Because the vacuum happen in larger diameter and water on the pipe just maintenance the vacuum (to keep water output from valve #3 flowing). that in my understanding.

very important you should create high vacuum condition first before open valve #4.

regards,
selamatg
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Old 06-05-2008, 06:06 PM
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I just did a small scale test, nothing special, just two tubes in a plastic 1l bottle. Does not work, because it is easier for the vacuum to suck air from the outlet tube than to suck up water from the inlet tube. So far I do not see how this can work without a water pump on the outlet that does not allow the air to get in the tank.
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Old 06-06-2008, 03:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetijs View Post
I just did a small scale test, nothing special, just two tubes in a plastic 1l bottle. Does not work, because it is easier for the vacuum to suck air from the outlet tube than to suck up water from the inlet tube. So far I do not see how this can work without a water pump on the outlet that does not allow the air to get in the tank.
Thanks Jet for your info,

But, I really did 14 years ago in small setup and work good. maybe your pipe / hose output to short because that happen with me before.

Also, we cannot expect for big flow with this system...

the other info I don't think any electricity in the village where I saw that device working. I will try again when have spare of time later. Seem very interest to try again.


selamatg
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:19 AM
Jan H Jan H is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by selamatg View Post
Thanks Jet for your info,

But, I really did 14 years ago in small setup and work good. maybe your pipe / hose output to short because that happen with me before.

Also, we cannot expect for big flow with this system...

the other info I don't think any electricity in the village where I saw that device working. I will try again when have spare of time later. Seem very interest to try again.


selamatg
Why would there be no scalability in this system? the amount of vacuum created is not due to the amount of water in the tank but only the height of the water. So it is not so that a big tank can pump up water from a small tank that is in a lower position. Think about water pressure increasing as you go deeper into the sea. The amount of water in the sea has nothing to do with that.

Yes if you make the hose so long it goes to the same level of the small water container it will actually flow. But since there is no height diffrence all your potential is lost. And all you will have built is a siphon.

Think about it if this would have worked the romans (skilled with water and waterflow) would have powered the world 3000 years ago.

I would say... don't waste your time... but.... make me a liar, and prove me wrong.
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Old 06-06-2008, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan H View Post
Why would there be no scalability in this system? the amount of vacuum created is not due to the amount of water in the tank but only the height of the water. So it is not so that a big tank can pump up water from a small tank that is in a lower position. Think about water pressure increasing as you go deeper into the sea. The amount of water in the sea has nothing to do with that.

Yes if you make the hose so long it goes to the same level of the small water container it will actually flow. But since there is no height diffrence all your potential is lost. And all you will have built is a siphon.

Think about it if this would have worked the romans (skilled with water and waterflow) would have powered the world 3000 years ago.

I would say... don't waste your time... but.... make me a liar, and prove me wrong.
Jan,
Thanks for your comment.

I do believe that gravity / vacuum pump will work, maybe I forget something. I just try using plastic bottle and didn't work because the bottle cannot handle the vacuum.

I will try again sometime with proper setup....Understood what you say this "maybe" waste of my time, but I will try again sometime. and will post the result.

btw...below is link for other alternative

http://ewb.students.mtu.edu/guatemal..._ram_pumps.pdf

regards,
selamatg
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Old 05-09-2009, 08:04 PM
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This is a really neat concept. I will have to try this when I get time. I understand the priciple, but I don't know if it's feasible or not. I think the two forces may equalize after a time. Vacuum versus gravity, both rarely understood by themselves, but when opposed to each other? Thanks for the link. Stealth
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Old 05-09-2009, 11:51 PM
CloudSeeder CloudSeeder is offline
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smaller diameter return hose being spiral like an Archimedes screw.

Such a system could work. If you're intending on building one there Stealth you might consider the smaller diameter return hose being spiral like an Archimedes screw. That might reduce the amount of pressure or work or something.

What is a $1.00 challenge? or was it one watt challenge? What challenge are we talking about?
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Old 05-10-2009, 01:13 AM
CloudSeeder CloudSeeder is offline
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You guys are all wet <> Jan knows the vacuum wasn't working alone.

Jan was right. There isn't enough vacuum to pull heavy liquid like water up from a lower tank. The vacuum is just working as an auxiliary motor (pump). The real energy making this system work is air pressure, the air sitting on top of the water in the pan. How many miles above the pan, as if a tall tower of air is sitting on the water at 20+ psi.

You need to have a larger pan to access a wider tower of air
pressing down on the water, not just a deeper pan.


If you add more big drums of water in series as he did in his drawings then the pan of water has to be even wider but the total number of drums may have a limit due to water-to-pan friction. This system, and again Jan is right, should have worked thousands of years ago already at the ocean. Any city on the shorelines of any major body of water should be able to build one BIG TANK -without any need for additional tanks- then prime the system by electrical pumping of the water to fill the tank and seal it with the generator inside. But would one big tank be the correct choice?

Consider these points before deciding:

#1 The generator should be built of ceramics to withstand the chemicals in the water &
to protect the wiring would have to be sealed; otherwise corrosion would kill the generator.

#2 You would probably want a hole drilled in the side to make swapping in new generator units much less painful.

#3a You could use a thousand smaller water tanks and a thousand smaller generators that would be much easier to
swap out so long as the width of the lower pan was multiplied a thousand times.

#3b this has a very real advantage as a heavy a** giant generator having to be hoisted up by
a crane and then carefully installed is a nightmarish idea.

#4 Don't forget to filter the water before entering the system. I suggest a system for
extracting the Gold from the ocean water, yep, that's what I would do.

This entire system should be enough to supply the world with generous electricity and a generous wealth of oceanwater~suspended gold particles. You should have listened to the female.


World Energy + World Economic Woes Solved
World Poverty brought to its Knees
<> May 09, 2009 <>

James T. Kirk Come on Down
We're approaching Federation Territory
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Last edited by CloudSeeder; 05-10-2009 at 01:19 AM. Reason: World Energy + World Economic Woes Solved <> May 09, 2009 <> World Poverty brought to its Knees by Ocean Gold Extraction
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Old 05-10-2009, 02:14 AM
CloudSeeder CloudSeeder is offline
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Generator Mounting First Choice is::

The first choice would however be to mount the generator on the outside of the tanks. The generator shaft would extend inside the tank to be the waterwheel axle. The waterwheel inside the tanks would not be on bearings but directly connected to the shaft/axle... so that water corrosion of bearings would not be able to occur.

Done deal. This is not the only way to accomplish such a system. I was holding my system back looking for a more opportune time to present itself, but since this thread opened the can of worms for solving World Poverty World Electricity and World Hunger I went with the flow. This is good a time as any I reckon.

But there is a 2nd system if this one should somehow fail to work.
The second system cools the ocean surface and slows hurricanes down.
...
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Last edited by CloudSeeder; 05-10-2009 at 02:17 AM. Reason: There is a 2nd system if this one should somehow fail to work; the 2nd system cools the ocean surface i.e slows hurricanes.
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  #20  
Old 05-25-2009, 12:55 PM
bobo36us bobo36us is offline
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Further advancement

Glad to see this revived :-)

I was thinking the only drawback in this system might be the more
containers, the harder the draw on the pump.

Then I thought, what about a closed system!

Think about it................
Suction pressure = CONSTANT atmosphere pressure
Discharge pressure = CONSTANT atmosphere pressure

The pump is literally just recirculating water, the same as
it would even if there were only one container in the system!

But we can add as many containers (pumps) as we like.
How many does it take to get overunity? 2,3,4? That means
every additional pump is providing useful work, with the help
of mother nature. No laws of physics are being broken here.

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Old 05-25-2009, 08:42 PM
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I like your idea. I had one similar in mind just the other day. There are fountain pumps that require a very small amount of electricity to pump a lot of volume of water, not under pressure mind you, but this system does not need pressure anyway. With enough turbines, or wheels, you could produce a massive amount of electricity. Good Luck. Stealth
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Old 05-26-2009, 07:53 AM
haethae haethae is offline
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I had a similar idea while trying to design a noiseless fountain. I wasn't sure how the water would keep the vacumm when it hit the open air, but looks like keeping it in a closed container would do the trick.
Anyway, when you've got your water at rest before you start up, the levels should be equal in the big tank and the smaller tube. However, I tihnk if you added some kind of watertight platform that could move up and down, you could use the weight of the water in the tank to push up the water in the tube. Airtight with the sides, but moves freely, made out of plastic or something so it floats, when it gets too low and thre's no more water under it, close off the tube and a hole in the middle of the platform opens up and allows some water to go under it.
After explaining it, this sounds much more far-fetched and complicated to incorporate than in my head.
Hmm, thinking about this again has given me another idea. I'll focus on it tomorrow and see if it has any relevance.
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