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  #301  
Old 04-19-2019, 02:28 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Relevance?

Hi Rakarskiy,

Please comment on my previous post and how you feel it relates to the subject video which started our exchange. Namely:



Then explain the relevance of your last post, on the Russian flywheel experiment, to the subject video.

Thanks,

bi
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  #302  
Old 04-19-2019, 04:15 PM
Rakarskiy Rakarskiy is offline
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The fact that I counted, in the video, our "cunning mathematician" did not impress me. I disagree with his calculations. The fact that it takes into account the radius of the flywheel in the calculation is true. Judging because it introduces the force for acceleration of the flywheel, not through the axis, but closer to the circumference line, it is also true (similarly impose the force of the jolt and your American engineers). You argued that the calculation is not true, and there is not any additives. The calculation is really slippery, but the flywheel at certain speeds has a quadratic increase in the energy index. For this, I gave an example conducted under the guidance of Professor Guli (inventor of the super flywheel). My answer satisfied you.
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  #303  
Old 04-19-2019, 04:38 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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No

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakarskiy View Post
The fact that I counted, in the video, our "cunning mathematician" did not impress me. I disagree with his calculations. The fact that it takes into account the radius of the flywheel in the calculation is true. Judging because it introduces the force for acceleration of the flywheel, not through the axis, but closer to the circumference line, it is also true (similarly impose the force of the jolt and your American engineers). You argued that the calculation is not true, and there is not any additives. The calculation is really slippery, but the flywheel at certain speeds has a quadratic increase in the energy index. For this, I gave an example conducted under the guidance of Professor Guli (inventor of the super flywheel). My answer satisfied you.
Thanks for your explanation, but the kinetic energy or angular momentum of the rotor (flywheel) does not enter into the power and efficiency calculations of the motor in the video demonstration because it is spinning at a constant speed at the point where the experimenter makes the measurements and calculations.

As you can plainly see in the Russian paper you posted, they are interested in and measure the acceleration (and deceleration) of the flywheel. A change in speed (RPM) is needed to use or store energy in the flywheel. That energy is simply irrelevant in a constant speed power or efficiency calculation. That is why I call the bad math guy in the subject video an idiot.

Sorry if you disagree but no sense of me posting more. I have explained my stated opinion.

Thanks for the discussion.

bi
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  #304  
Old 04-19-2019, 06:28 PM
Rakarskiy Rakarskiy is offline
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bistander, The “cunning mathematician” amused a little, but touched on interesting points. I don't want to judge him, especially calling him an "idiot." Just a flywheel is a drive comparable to an electric capacitor. Torque can be compared with the current strength. Closing the circuit, these components begin to work. I explain to people that in a kinetic chain with a constant load it is useless. Between the battery and the lamp, turn on the electric capacitor in parallel and wait for a miracle. Similar and flywheel between engine and generator with constant mechanical strength. The flywheel works in a system where a kinetic impulse is created, which can be compared with pulsed electrical circuits.
Best wishes, be good!
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  #305  
Old 04-19-2019, 08:52 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakarskiy View Post
... Just a flywheel is a drive comparable to an electric capacitor. ...
Yes, flywheel and capacitor are energy storage devices. A capacitor plays no part in a circuit where voltage does not change. Likewise, a flywheel plays no part on a rotational mechanical system where the angular velocity does not change.

The video idiot uses bad math of flywheel angular momentum to attempt to calculate torque of a constant speed rotating member. Angular momentum and stored energy of the rotor is irrelevant at unchanging RPM where he attempts to calculate mechanical power and motor efficiency.

bi, again
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  #306  
Old 04-20-2019, 02:29 AM
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Gentlemen thanks for your hard work running numbers. I can't do
that most days unless I refresh then I forget it all.

You both are good at the figuring, it is a gift or a curse sometimes.

Let's put it like this. Does anyone know the input power in the video?

For the sake of the laymen, (Like me) what kind of power could he get
off that big flywheel? Does it seem like he can do more work with his
flywheel than he is putting in?

I don't remember if he shows the input. The man is no dummy and is
doing bench work that will pay off and feels like he has something
special. I wonder if he knows the difference with normal closed loops
systems VS what he thinks he has found?

We must work from the premise that he has some education and knows
how conventional systems work. To assume someone is a lunatic based
on a differing calculation without hands on is showing a closed door.

The "I'm always right" attitude is on display leaving no opening for
learning outside the box. Mathematicians and inventors are two
separate animals. Generally the inventors just go ahead and make it
work unable to frame the equations after the fact.
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  #307  
Old 04-20-2019, 03:16 AM
bistander bistander is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post
...
Let's put it like this. Does anyone know the input power in the video?
...
At time marker 13:15, input power is 48.84 watts from voltmeter and ammeter on the batteries.

There is no load on the motor shaft so output power is necessarily zero.

Then efficiency at the 900 RPM constant speed (which he measured) is output power / input power * 100% which is 0 watts output / 48.84 watts input * 100% = 0% efficient.

bi
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  #308  
Old 04-20-2019, 05:36 AM
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Very funny, the man in the video said hypothetically he was way
over unity tho he said he had not finished by attaching a generator.

My question is base on the weight of the wheel tell us how much
he could get out of it. It is zero yes, which shows how absurd you
are in defending your position.

Answer plz. How much. See how incapable you are? There is no shame.

It is best to be evasive like you are doing since no bench work will follow.
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Last edited by BroMikey; 04-20-2019 at 06:31 AM.
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  #309  
Old 04-20-2019, 08:29 AM
Rakarskiy Rakarskiy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Yes, flywheel and capacitor are energy storage devices. A capacitor plays no part in a circuit where voltage does not change. Likewise, a flywheel plays no part on a rotational mechanical system where the angular velocity does not change.

The video idiot uses bad math of flywheel angular momentum to attempt to calculate torque of a constant speed rotating member. Angular momentum and stored energy of the rotor is irrelevant at unchanging RPM where he attempts to calculate mechanical power and motor efficiency.

bi, again
I also do two flywheel torque calculations based on classical and centrifugal forces. The flywheel is a capacitor (drive) and at constant load (speed) will only discharge. The kinetic pulse is also a charge discharge, only in the dynamics of velocities. "The "bad mathematician" miscalculated the torque of the flywheel for the reason that T= (1/360 F)* R, must be used to calculate the arm's arm, not the circle. But first calculate the centrifugal force F=m*ω^2*R, calculate the torque of the flywheel at different speeds according to the proposed method and on the basis of the classical formula, the moment of inertia. Then overlay both graphs on top of each other and see the difference. The classical method is a linear result that is essentially wrong.
Provided that the radius in both calculations is the same. If we consider that the radius of the center of mass changes with increasing speed of the flywheel. Then the calculation will be even more categorical. To deny it in favor of the bigots of money, nothing could be simpler.
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  #310  
Old 04-20-2019, 10:47 AM
lotec lotec is offline
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Hi,
I had this rough diagram I wanted to put out there for consumption. Although I think it is in the spirit of the first experiment in SkyWatchers latest thread, I thought it might be better if I posted it here so as not to be too bigger distraction.

It is a partial side view of an axial flux generator with a two piece rotor, that is bolted together, as it passes the gen coils. The hope here is that the flux made by the generator coil, ignores the rotor, and chooses it's closed circuit path. It's untried and untested by myself.

The blue shows the flux path that does the inducting, when the generator is not conducting, and the red shows the hoped for flux path of the gen coil when it is conducting.



Edit....... ps I forgot the washers that space out the 2 pieces of the rotor.
Attached Images
File Type: png axial3.png (244.3 KB, 94 views)
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Last edited by lotec; 04-20-2019 at 11:09 AM. Reason: add on
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  #311  
Old 04-20-2019, 12:06 PM
Rakarskiy Rakarskiy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotec View Post
Hi,
I had this rough diagram I wanted to put out there for consumption. Although I think it is in the spirit of the first experiment in SkyWatchers latest thread, I thought it might be better if I posted it here so as not to be too bigger distraction.

It is a partial side view of an axial flux generator with a two piece rotor, that is bolted together, as it passes the gen coils. The hope here is that the flux made by the generator coil, ignores the rotor, and chooses it's closed circuit path. It's untried and untested by myself.

The blue shows the flux path that does the inducting, when the generator is not conducting, and the red shows the hoped for flux path of the gen coil when it is conducting.



Edit....... ps I forgot the washers that space out the 2 pieces of the rotor.


Dear colleague! Anti Lentz is a great "duck" of General science, tucked among those who are looking for the formula of their device. This figure correctly shows the formula of magnetic switching, their total vector, action-counteraction, rotor rotation, which will be minimal. But the magnetic flux in the core and how EMF is formed are fundamentally wrong. Apply the "right hand" rule to the solenoid core, to the electromagnet and as the receiving coil of the external field of excitation? You won't see the difference. The greater the external flow, the greater the attraction between the magnet and the core, and more EMF.
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  #312  
Old 04-20-2019, 04:41 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Benchwork

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post
Very funny, the man in the video said hypothetically he was way
over unity tho he said he had not finished by attaching a generator.

My question is base on the weight of the wheel tell us how much
he could get out of it. It is zero yes, which shows how absurd you
are in defending your position.

Answer plz. How much. See how incapable you are? There is no shame.

It is best to be evasive like you are doing since no bench work will follow.
Since you favor benchwork, do it and find out for yourself.

Or, go to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flywheel , scroll down to the physics section and calculate it.
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  #313  
Old 04-20-2019, 07:57 PM
alexelectric alexelectric is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotec View Post
Hi,
I had this rough diagram I wanted to put out there for consumption. Although I think it is in the spirit of the first experiment in SkyWatchers latest thread, I thought it might be better if I posted it here so as not to be too bigger distraction.

It is a partial side view of an axial flux generator with a two piece rotor, that is bolted together, as it passes the gen coils. The hope here is that the flux made by the generator coil, ignores the rotor, and chooses it's closed circuit path. It's untried and untested by myself.

The blue shows the flux path that does the inducting, when the generator is not conducting, and the red shows the hoped for flux path of the gen coil when it is conducting.



Edit....... ps I forgot the washers that space out the 2 pieces of the rotor.
the design is fine, in fact in the network there is a configuration of this type that has only the magnets on the one hand, this configuration has been configured and working to have double pole its N and S by the inductive part of the core will be more V / amp.
when I visualized in other images of the network and had only one pole, I thought that why not close for the other end with the opposite pole.
You can also try the top where the coil is not, the nucleus can be separated as Mr. Alex does.
all these prototypes should be tried with a small replica and according to the results try to make one of larger size and capacity, as well as wind turbines from 1000w to 2500w or more, the advantage if built with this coil anti lenz would move easier .
forward continue with your projects greetings
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  #314  
Old 04-20-2019, 08:28 PM
Rakarskiy Rakarskiy is offline
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The device of the compensated two-phase generator of the increased efficiency Russian patent RF 2317628

Quote:
The disadvantage of existing synchronous machines is that the magnetic flux created by permanent magnets of the rotor poles crosses the conductors of the stator winding located in the grooves of the inner surface of the stator. In this case, the generated electrical power in the generator is equal to the required mechanical power supplied to the generator rotor (excluding energy losses in the stator and mechanical energy losses in the rotor).
In connection with the above, the efficiency of all existing synchronous generators is always less than one.

The technical result, to achieve which the present invention is directed, is to create simple in design two-phase electric generators with efficiency greater than one.
Figure 1 Figure 2
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  #315  
Old 04-20-2019, 10:21 PM
lotec lotec is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexelectric View Post
the design is fine, in fact in the network there is a configuration of this type that has only the magnets on the one hand, this configuration has been configured and working to have double pole its N and S by the inductive part of the core will be more V / amp.
when I visualized in other images of the network and had only one pole, I thought that why not close for the other end with the opposite pole.
You can also try the top where the coil is not, the nucleus can be separated as Mr. Alex does.
all these prototypes should be tried with a small replica and according to the results try to make one of larger size and capacity, as well as wind turbines from 1000w to 2500w or more, the advantage if built with this coil anti lenz would move easier .
forward continue with your projects greetings
Hi Alex,
Thanks for the comments on the diagram. As far as whats out there on the network, I don't know, I only visit this site for alternate energy, I figure that most of the things out there will find their way here sooner or later.

The dual rotor test bed was a project I started working on and it was going to be used to test a few different inductors, One of which is a distant cousin of the Faraday's homo-polar generator, where the hope was it would output four times the voltage, and it would be AC. That project is on hold for now until I get access to better tools like drop saws and drill presses,

I have to ask, There is this guy called Alex, It looks like he is the inspiration for SkyWatchers latest thread, and also the above diagram, and also your name is Alex.
Are you that Alex?
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  #316  
Old 04-20-2019, 10:41 PM
lotec lotec is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakarskiy View Post


Dear colleague! Anti Lentz is a great "duck" of General science, tucked among those who are looking for the formula of their device. This figure correctly shows the formula of magnetic switching, their total vector, action-counteraction, rotor rotation, which will be minimal. But the magnetic flux in the core and how EMF is formed are fundamentally wrong. Apply the "right hand" rule to the solenoid core, to the electromagnet and as the receiving coil of the external field of excitation? You won't see the difference. The greater the external flow, the greater the attraction between the magnet and the core, and more EMF.
Hi Rakarskiy;
Thanks for the reference to the E core generator. Ill have to look into it more before I'll understand it properly.

cheers.
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  #317  
Old 04-27-2019, 08:49 PM
lotec lotec is offline
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Hi.
I hear that there are some interesting effects that can be observed by creating a delayed Lenz effect.

Here are some other ways a possible delay might be created.

1. For a relatively low voltage system. Split the two legs of the output coil into two, then hook them up to a relay. Not a great option because some conducting of the generator coils would be needed to switch on the relay, before the main discharge.

2 For higher voltage setups, there may be something lying around on the bench that could be used as lower voltage plasma switch, like a fist full of small neons, surge protectors, or a fluro light. I noticed that a lot of Gerrard Morin replications used the fluros.

3 For lower voltage, lower power setups. The output could be rectified and fed into a discharge circuit, made from tirmpots, an op amp comparitor, feeding a transistor or fet driver. This is my personal favorite for an idea because it can be tuned to discharge at any voltage along the inducted sine wave. So if speed up were to occur then the delay could continue to be shortened as the motor speeds up.

4 Or even a reed switch. Very fiddly, and not tunable.

Cheers.
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  #318  
Old 04-27-2019, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotec View Post
Here are some other ways a possible delay might be created.

1. For a relatively low voltage system. Split the two legs of the output coil into two, then hook them up to a relay. Not a great option because some conducting of the generator coils would be needed to switch on the relay, before the main discharge.



Cheers.
What does a relay do in #1, split which legs? Are you assuming ppl
already know what you are thinking? Plz explain your way of delay.
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  #319  
Old 04-28-2019, 10:19 AM
lotec lotec is offline
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Hi Bro Mikey,
Caught your videos, nice work.
Yes I could have explained that a lot better. This schematic might help. The ideas I posted where speculative at best, and not tested by me yet.
The context here is trying to use generator coils as motor coils.

The kind of delay I was proposing, is preventing the generator coils from conducting immediately at the beginning of the induction cycle. The hope here is that while they don't conduct they are not producing a magnetic field that opposes the rotor on it's approach to TDC, and at that time, the cores might be polarized for attraction.

Then at some point in the induction cycle somewhere Between 0v and the peak of the first sine, depending on the coils inductance value relative to the rotor speed, the discharge happens. If it happens at just the right time while the core is reversing polarity to repulsion, it might neutralize the attraction at TCD and maybe even provides a push as it goes past.

The relay idea is a crude one to be sure, and it's not tunable, so the time taken to turn itself on is what creates the delay. If the effect were to happen at all, the relay coil would need to have relatively small inductance compared to the gen coil and the rotor would have to be going at just the right speed. I said it wasn't a great option because the coils would have to conduct enough to turn the relay on to make the intended discharge.



All the options where designed to do the same thing, just using different methods. In hinesight I can also see a problem with the third option, and think it would work better with a Hall Effect Sensor used in a similar way to how they are in motors. The center of the discharge would be determined by the position of the sensor, and the duration of the shot either side of the center could controlled electronically with the trimpots. The circuit might look something like this, but Ive only ever used it to switch conventional motor coils, and gets some serious heat issues if I try to switch much more than 4 amps or so.



Possibly more useful for people who's machines can't rotate fast enough to get their coils into the zone. A problem you don't seem to have using your methods. I'm looking forward to see what happens next.


Regards.
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File Type: png Relay_Gen_Discharge.png (176.9 KB, 44 views)
File Type: png Hall_Effect_Gen_Discharge.png (247.4 KB, 42 views)
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  #320  
Old 04-28-2019, 11:17 AM
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Yes shorting or discharging can produce the anti-lenz effect
while collecting energy back thru that relay switching.

Now I understand your goal.
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  #321  
Old 04-28-2019, 02:16 PM
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Coils

lotec,
Why bother with all the electronics when you can get a coil to speed up under load simply by winding it correctly? You have several variables in your ideas you have not even worked out yet that will affect success. And NONE of it has been tested to see if it even works. Why not just do something we already KNOW works? If you want a no brain absolute solution to getting your coil right, and can't be bothered to build the one I have shown already working, just add a capacitor to a coil like they used to do in the good old days to increase its capacitance. A variable cap would be best. Adjust it util the coil speeds up under load. Done.
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  #322  
Old 04-28-2019, 06:21 PM
alexelectric alexelectric is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotec View Post
Hi Alex,
Thanks for the comments on the diagram. As far as whats out there on the network, I don't know, I only visit this site for alternate energy, I figure that most of the things out there will find their way here sooner or later.

The dual rotor test bed was a project I started working on and it was going to be used to test a few different inductors, One of which is a distant cousin of the Faraday's homo-polar generator, where the hope was it would output four times the voltage, and it would be AC. That project is on hold for now until I get access to better tools like drop saws and drill presses,

I have to ask, There is this guy called Alex, It looks like he is the inspiration for SkyWatchers latest thread, and also the above diagram, and also your name is Alex.
Are you that Alex?
Hello lotec
thanks for the reply,
for the gentleman that you ask I am not that Alex, that man has several videos and very interesting projects, and announces his advances,
I am another user, very interested in the new generation of energy
of the coil project that shows what I'm going to do and I'll comment on the advances
see you soon
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  #323  
Old 04-28-2019, 10:41 PM
lotec lotec is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
lotec,
Why bother with all the electronics when you can get a coil to speed up under load simply by winding it correctly? You have several variables in your ideas you have not even worked out yet that will affect success. And NONE of it has been tested to see if it even works. Why not just do something we already KNOW works? If you want a no brain absolute solution to getting your coil right, and can't be bothered to build the one I have shown already working, just add a capacitor to a coil like they used to do in the good old days to increase its capacitance. A variable cap would be best. Adjust it util the coil speeds up under load. Done.
Thanks Turion,
When you put it that way, why not indeed. The easiest solution is often the best and I like easy. That will be one of the first things I try when I get up and running.

Regards
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