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  #1  
Old 09-13-2015, 11:00 PM
wayne.ct wayne.ct is offline
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What is Cold Electricity?

Let's imagine a simple circuit composed of a battery, a CSR (a current sense resistor) and a resistor for a load. A simple DC circuit. You hook this circuit up and a few seconds later the load resistor is hot, the CSR is hot and the battery is getting warm.

You pick some different components and hook them up. This time, the load resistor gets hot, but the battery and CSR stay cool. You can't feel them getting warmer and your thermometer seems to tell you "nothing is changing temperature wise" in regards to the battery and the CSR.

Probably half of you out there know exactly where this is leading. I'm not aiming this at you. This is for the readers that come on this forum saying, "I want to do what you are doing, but I don't know anything about electricity or electronics. All I know is that Tesla was a genius and his discoveries have been lost."

If you think you have a valid comment or question, I will be glad to hear it. But, it seems to me that a bunch of shallow thinking is getting promoted on this forum. (And I have been a member for quite a while now.)

When Tesla talks about radiant, that is THE SAME THING that we know as radio waves. True, there are radial and longitudinal components, but they are both radio waves. We also have a new vocabulary when it comes to inductors, capacitors, and a whole slew of other new stuff. But, cold electricity is nothing more or less than high voltage, low current circuitry.

If you think you know a better definition or description of cold electricity, this would be a good place for you to lay your cards on the table and explain what you think cold electricity is.

To expand on my thoughts, in great detail and with examples, please download and carefully examine the attached zip file which contain a spreadsheet. It simply uses Ohm's law and the power equation (watts = volts times amps) to show what happens in the simple (DC) circuit described above. It should be very helpful to you, if you are a beginner in the area of electricity and electronics.

Good luck with your experiments and I hope you come up with something that will change the course of history.

Also, by the way, I saw a video posted recently in which a well regarded member of this community discussed a circuit idea related to the notion of cold electricity. I really started to wonder what he is thinking. So, please, share your ideas here if you think I'm on the wrong track.
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File Type: zip Cold Electricity.zip (10.2 KB, 133 views)
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  #2  
Old 09-14-2015, 12:30 AM
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Hi Wayne,

What a brave person you are to try and bring some sanity to this forum. I wish you luck on that.

I would add one other qualification for "cold electricity". High frequency is also a factor. A high voltage low current DC source does not behave the same as a high voltage low current rf source. And I believe that what a lot of people on this forum are describing as "cold electricity" is nothing more than the normal behavior of rf energy.

Respectfully.
Carroll
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Old 09-14-2015, 01:30 AM
Bob Smith Bob Smith is offline
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Hi Wayne
This topic ought to bring out some colourful conversation
By its very name, "cold", there is an endothermic quality to this form of energy, the way I see it. That is, instead of giving off heat, it acts in the opposite way, running cold. As you say, it involves low current. In my understanding, it is current/amperage that is tied to exothermic reactions or heat production.

I would argue, based on my experience that you don't need hi voltage for CE. I do agree with your position that there is little to no conventional current/amperage involved. However, voltage level may well play a factor in the density of a cold charge, dictating its ability to perform work. Higher voltage >>> higher charge density >>> greater ability to perform work.

I would also take a slightly different view on the role of HF. In my experience, CE is accessible at relatively low frequencies. However, the key to tapping into it seems to be tied to resonance, or resonant frequency. In terms of HF, the higher you go with overtones, you may also be able to access greater charge densities.
But there's something about a coil at resonance that seems to render it capable in certain instances of drawing in a CE charge.

Great topic!
Bob
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Old 09-15-2015, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by wayne.ct View Post
This time, the load resistor gets hot, but the battery and CSR stay cool. You can't feel them getting warmer
I don't know the answer but I can say that the only time i have come across cold electricity was at the UK Free Energy conference '07, maybe '08. We had a demo of pulsed cracking of water into HHO, the Dave Lawton method, and part of the equipment went white. This was frost.
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Old 09-15-2015, 08:14 PM
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I think the relevant word here is "Electricity".

Hot "water" and cold "water" are the same thing.

Similarly hot "electricity" and cold "electricity" are the same thing.

I believe there is a conventional explantation of semiconductor switches getting
cold, I've read it but cannot recall where.

In my opinion there is only one electricity, it can cause heating or it can
cause cooling depending on what is actually happening.

..
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Old 09-15-2015, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by wayne.ct View Post
If you think you know a better definition or description of cold electricity, this would be a good place for you to lay your cards on the table and explain what you think cold electricity is.
This is a good topic to hash out, because I think it lies central to our discovery and understanding of the type of devices characterized as free energy or overunity.

The first consideration is symmetry. If we can agree there is such thing as hot electricity, it only seems natural to suspect there is an opposite, behaving very similar but when the two are combined in equal quantities, you get a neutral or balanced result. Nature has a fascination for ying and yang.

I have been studying the Ruslan Kulabuhov device for months now and Ruslan himself has stated the two key components of this device are Cold Current and Back EMF. This particular device uses a rigid earth ground where it would appear electrical charge is kept in balance.

Another concept I think is key, is inertia. If you have an electrical flow of current and you abruptly stop it, the current itself has inertia, it continues to move some amount, some distance for some time after the gate is closed. So one has to ask themselves what happens just past the gate. Certainly you don't pull an electrical vacuum at that point; something must fill that void. My thinking is the "void" is filled with this mysterious cold current. If you allow the hot current to reverse direction and go back to that void, you lose the cold current, but if you don't let the hot current reverse by adding a second gate, now you have forced nature to show its other side.

The best way to visualize the above scenario is to look at the operation of a hydraulic ram pump.
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Old 09-16-2015, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by wayne.ct View Post
If you think you know a better definition or description of cold electricity, this would be a good place for you to lay your cards on the table and explain what you think cold electricity is.
My personal opinion is that "cold electricity" is a figment of Gerry Vassilatos' imagination. Cold is just a lack of heat. It isn't some separate thing. You'll notice in all of the accounts discussing "cold electricity" that what is actually cold is some device, not the electricity itself. So it could be said that the electricity is somehow affecting the device such that it sheds heat, leaving less heat in the device than in the surrounding environment.

Tesla did this with vacuum tubes when he was experimenting with Roetgen rays. What he was doing was using electricity to enhance the degree of vacuum in the bulbs. From "On Roentgen Rays" article of March 11, 1896 in Electrical Review: “After some time the reddish light subsides, the streams becoming again white, whereupon they get weaker and weaker, wavering around the electrode until they finally disappear: Meanwhile, the phosphorescence of the glass grows more and more intense, and the spot where the stream strikes the wall becomes very hot, while the phosphorescence around the electrode ceases and the latter cools down to such an extent that the glass near it may be actually ice cold to the touch. The gas in the bulb has then reached the required degree of rarefaction.” The entire article is worth the time to read it.

On Roentgen Rays by Nikola Tesla


Quote:
When Tesla talks about radiant, that is THE SAME THING that we know as radio waves. True, there are radial and longitudinal components, but they are both radio waves. We also have a new vocabulary when it comes to inductors, capacitors, and a whole slew of other new stuff. But, cold electricity is nothing more or less than high voltage, low current circuitry.
Radiant energy is a generic term meaning energy which is radiated. It isn't some exotic, unknown, mysterious "new" untapped energy source. At least not as used by Tesla, although today it is made to seem that way. Actually Crookes was the first one that I am aware of that used the term "radiant energy" and he got it from an 1816 paper titled "On Radiant Matter" by Michael Faraday. Faraday was making a case that "radiant matter" should be considered a fourth state of matter along with solid, liquid, and gas. We know "radiant" matter today as "plasma".
Crookes, On Radiant Matter

I disagree with you about radiant energy being radio waves unless you consider X-rays and particles emitted by atomic decay and cosmic rays to be radio waves. Tesla considered the "rays" to be particles which carried an electrical charge which also bleeds into wireless transmission of energy - particles traveling in straight lines that carry electrical charge.

There's a long, drawn out explanation at the following link that traces how the idea evolved through time from "radiant matter" to "radiant energy" to what we today call "atomic energy" or "nuclear energy". See Reply #19 at the following link:
Understanding Tesla

Again Gerry Vassilatos is largely responsible for most of the BS surrounding "radiant energy". There are a couple of telling features about his "Secrets of Cold War Technology" book that identify it as pure contrivance. First, there are no references for any of the claims made in the book. And if it is read carefully you will see that he makes assertions that could only be known if he witnessed some events that occurred before he was born. Although an enjoyable read it is full of BS and should be considered fiction - fiction needs no references.
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Old 09-16-2015, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Dog-One View Post
This is a good topic to hash out, because I think it lies central to our discovery and understanding of the type of devices characterized as free energy or overunity.

The first consideration is symmetry. If we can agree there is such thing as hot electricity, it only seems natural to suspect there is an opposite, behaving very similar but when the two are combined in equal quantities, you get a neutral or balanced result. Nature has a fascination for ying and yang.

I have been studying the Ruslan Kulabuhov device for months now and Ruslan himself has stated the two key components of this device are Cold Current and Back EMF. This particular device uses a rigid earth ground where it would appear electrical charge is kept in balance.

Another concept I think is key, is inertia. If you have an electrical flow of current and you abruptly stop it, the current itself has inertia, it continues to move some amount, some distance for some time after the gate is closed. So one has to ask themselves what happens just past the gate. Certainly you don't pull an electrical vacuum at that point; something must fill that void. My thinking is the "void" is filled with this mysterious cold current. If you allow the hot current to reverse direction and go back to that void, you lose the cold current, but if you don't let the hot current reverse by adding a second gate, now you have forced nature to show its other side.

The best way to visualize the above scenario is to look at the operation of a hydraulic ram pump.


That's very close to my views on this as well.

Another way I've heard it described was as 'coherent electricity' instead of 'cold electricity'. Think of it as the difference between laser light and regular light.

Much like the different properties between a light bulb and laser beam, coherent electricity would have different properties in the same electrical circuits. It may act on battery chemistry differently, or have different magnetic properties (or no magnetic properties?), or act on dielectrics differently, etc. Anyway, it's a good starting point to understand when we hear about some overunity devices being hard to measure. Bedini talks about pulses that can't be measured with any meter or scope but can charge a battery just fine.

Because you are extracting from a below-ground state, the electricity produced may be in this coherent state before being scattered by resistive circuits.
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Old 09-16-2015, 08:43 PM
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Good to see so many people start grasping this simple idea....
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Old 09-19-2015, 02:47 AM
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Continuing the pondering that 'cold electricity' is actually 'coherent electricity' (the same difference as laser light vs conventional scattered light).
Lets look at various systems and see if we can narrow down a few more properties of coherent electricity.


Bedini speaks of 'Pulses that cannot be picked up on a scope or meter, but will charge a battery just fine'. The conclusion from this:
* Coherent cannot be picked up directly with a shunt because the resistance scatters coherent EM back into conventional EM. This would be akin to shooting a laser into opaque glass. The glass lights up but scatters the beam in the process.


Floyd Sweet's videos shows him managing to run motors and light bulbs just fine on coherent electricity, which would lead to one of two conclusions:
* 1: Coherent electricity has an associated magnetic field just like conventional electricity
or
* 2: The resistance of the wire is converting coherent electricity back to conventional, and that is where the magnetic field is coming from. Coherent electricity either has no direct magnetic field or its magnetic properties mimic a superconductor.
I don't know the answer but I suspect the 2nd proposition is closer to reality. If the 2nd is the case, this form of electricity might be called 'electro-dielectric' as opposed to the 'electromagnetic' that we are used to.


Don Smith and Eric Dollard and others reference FTL propagation in dielectric setups. This suggests that:
* Coherent electricity likely has dielectric properties, making its propagation velocity likely around 1.53c.
It also suggests that:
* Capacitors can convert coherent to conventional.


Almost every system seems to light bulbs just fine, and with a rare exception in certain HV Tesla circuits, few report their bulbs running cold. This would mean:
* Resistance converts coherent to conventional.
If we're designing a circuit based on this, it means:
* In general, any wire where coherent EM flows should have low winding resistance. Secondary and load side of circuit should minimize resistance.


Systems that report getting cold seem to do so in different regions. Bedini reported the magnets themselves got cold, Sweet said directly shorting leads would create frost on the wires, one odd experiment on OU forum mentioned when he blew a MOSFET that the junction was ice cold. This would suggest that:
* The below-ground energy well can be generated multiple ways in multiple places.
* Coherent EM is almost universally derived from a coil and magnetic field, and has dielectric properties.


One more consideration to determine where coherent EM comes from in an OU circuit:
* Since coherent electricity seems to flow toward below-ground-state regions, energy may not actually be flowing foward, but instead flowing backward into the sink. I'm not sure how to exploit this in a circuit, but it's still worth mentioning.

--------------------------------------------

On toward creating coherent EM:

* Laser light is created when over-exited particles return to a ground state. Following that logic, Coherent EM should arise from electrons falling into a below-ground state.

* Laser light propagates best in a low resistance path. Coherent EM likely needs a low resistance path to flow as well (short wire, thick wire, silver coated wire, litz wire)

* Diode laser light comes from the gap between the P+N junction in a transistor, and propagates at a 90deg angle to the impressed dielectric field.

And lastly:

* Laser light is generated as a one-way action. Energy translated into light does not get reflected back into energy, at least at the source. Receiving laser light on the other end does not affect the source in any way.
In a circuit, this means we need to generate currents that do not reflect back to the source (heat pump, water hammer, diodes, parameter variation, etc).

--------------------------------------------

I don't have any neat experiments to show off, yet.
Just trying to narrow down a few parameters so when we build our circuits, we are not completely in the dark.
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Old 09-19-2015, 02:19 PM
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Since coherent electricity seems to flow toward below-ground-state regions, energy may not actually be flowing foward, but instead flowing backward into the sink
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Old 09-20-2015, 06:29 PM
wayne.ct wayne.ct is offline
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Cold Electricity is many things

It has been 7 days since I started this thread. Sometimes I don't have time to check in consistently.

It seems that there are many ideas for a definition of cold electricity, including the idea that it is an entirely imaginary notion. Skipping that opinion, it appears that cold electricity is one or more of the following.

1. Cold charge (and what exactly is that?)
2. That which produces a endothermic condition
3. Something pertaining to frequency
4. Something pertaining to charge density
5. Something related to back EMF
6. Something having to do with inertia of electrons
7. An electrical vacuum
8. A mysterious cold current
9. X-rays
10. Another name for coherent electricity.

As far as I can tell, we don't really have a consensus view of cold electricity. No one mentioned the thermoelectric effect, also known as the Peltier effect. It seems that the idea of cold electricity may have originated with Gerry Vassilatos. Thanks for everyone's comments in the thread. It does seem there is some measure of sanity and insanity within the community.

Also, by the way, I should have said radiant is electromagnetic waves instead of radio frequency. That way, X-rays would be included along with lower frequency EM we call radio waves.
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Old 09-20-2015, 06:35 PM
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Of course radio waves or electromagnetic waves, of special kind.
Like polarised light or laser or other way of coherent or isolated or twisted or intermittent or undulated wave....and it's interaction with matter...
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Old 09-20-2015, 07:35 PM
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You might have an easier time identifying what it is if you reach some consensus about what it does (i.e., what are its manifestations)- my two cents' worth.
Bob
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Old 09-21-2015, 03:20 AM
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Originally Posted by wayne.ct View Post
No one mentioned the thermoelectric effect, also known as the Peltier effect.
Good point!!
Not sure , but Iotayodi's post of a vortex tube might describe this, where positive electric flow creates our negative gradiant that sucks in energy from the other side of a PN junction.

----------------

This actually gives us a few experiments to narrow down the source if a peltier is indeed a manifestation of 'cold electricity'.

* Stick a big neodymium magnet next to a peltier module junction and measure the difference in performance with, without, and at various angles. If there is no change in current flow or temperature, then it would suggest cold electricity does NOT have magnetic properties (assuming Peltiers are a manifestation of it).

* Same experiment as above, except use a big coil instead of a magnet and apply sharp DC pulses or AC sinewaves. It may only respond to changing magnetic fields and not static fields. Repeat the experiment in reverse and try to get a voltage on the coil by pulsing the peltier. Look for one-way actions

* Use a peltier module as the 'air gap' in a simple transformer and measure effects between transformer windings and peltier junction. Does one field induce power in the other?

* Find a way to put a peltier in a static or dielectric field and measure the results. Like putting one near a tesla coil terminal and measure the results. Repeat with a running peltier and measure changes in temperature or current flow. If cold electricity has dielectric properties, you may see some changes.
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Old 09-21-2015, 05:54 AM
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Speculation...

A predominately negatively charged force. Closely associated with HF through an appropriate dielectric. More longitudinal qualities than transverse. Natures "balancing force."

How to manifest? Start with HF positive potential values through a dielectric causing spatial tension, negative charge floods in to negate the imbalance.

The rates of the action is a subset of spatial resonance (friction) and voltage (pressure).
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Old 09-21-2015, 07:03 PM
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Consensus?

Thanks for the additional input.

There is no consensus. It would be nice if someone could step forward and say in positive terms what it is, when it occurs, how to produce it or the circumstances in which it appears. I don't really care about empty conjecture and speculation regarding how all these conventional terms converge and possibly produce cold electricity. I am not searching for cold electricity because I have pretty much told you what I think it is. I want to know how to build an experiment in which something unusual will be manifested. I thought cold electricity might be the project I am looking for.

So, don't give me a million possibilities and tell me to go do it. Give me ONE concrete example and say to me to duplicate this experiment and you will be able to see it.

The best answer, so far, is actually the most negative and discouraging answer. That, of course, would be the post by thx1138.

It seems that Gerry Vassilatos was the first to put forward the notion of cold electricity and his theory was not very strong. thx1138 thinks and says it is entirely imaginary. I would assume that he means the concept is empty and without foundation.

Tesla did many experiments involving very high voltages if we were to describe them in contemporary terminology. Tesla called these "high potential" "high pressure" and used a lot of similar language. It still seems to me that cold electricity is nothing more or less than what you may see when high voltages are present. Another term in contemporary usage is "electrostatic field", sometimes "electrostatic potential" or "electrostatic voltage". I agree with the characterization of EM into categories of longitudinal and Hertzian. It seems clear to me that the radio waves of Alexanderson and Tesla are not the same as what are mostly in use today.

What apparatus should one construct to reproduce an endothermic result in a portion of a circuit involving high voltages? Or, is cold electricity another version of the Peltier effect, a version that does not require the use of semiconductors?

Has anyone witnessed any sort of demonstration in which the presenter claimed to show cold electricity? Maybe we should be discussing endothermia? Has anyone seen endothermia and cold electricity equated outside of this thread?

I would like to hear first hand reports from anyone that has something to say. Since we don't have any (many?) first hand reports so far, redirecting to primary sources would be good. The reference to Gerry Vassilatos was interesting, but it was obviously not much of a source, at least not in a positive way.

Regarding cold charges, is there an experiment or experimenter that can explain more about that?

Thanks again for the comments. And Bob, I read your posts and I heard you.
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Old 09-22-2015, 11:06 PM
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The only thing I have direct experience with is the Peltier device. I have an Igloo "iceless" cooler. The Peltier device will never provide electricity but it consumes a lot of it. My cooler came with a 120V 60Hz->18V 30 Amp power supply. Besides the Peltier device there is also a fan to blow air across the external heat sink to remove the heat. The Peltier device basically moves heat from the inside of the cooler to the outside air via thermal semiconductors but it will only drop the temperature inside by 30F - 40F degrees from ambient. The newer ones might be somewhat better and/or use less power. I think they were initially developed to provide solid state refrigeration on submarines. They're great for that because they have no moving parts to make noise and the submarine is nuclear powered so there's plenty of power to run it. (ahhh, that radiant energy again )

The opposite effect, generating electricity from heat, is accomplished via the Seebeck effect. That's what makes a thermocouple work. In a gas fired water heater a thermocouple projects into the pilot light flame and it generates a few milli Volts to let the controller know that the pilot light is lit. If the pilot light flame goes out the thermocouple voltage is not present and the controller will not open the main burner valve because there is no pilot light flame to ignite the main burner. It additionally turns off the pilot light gas flow so it doesn't accumulate. That's why you have to push the control valve in to light the pilot light - that bypasses the pilot light gas flow valve.

Edit: What's interesting about the Peltier and Seebeck effects is they occur at the interface between two different two materials.

Peter Lindemann produced a book titled "Free Energy Secrets of Cold Electricity". In it he cites Gerry Vassillatos' book but, again, there isn't much usable info. He gets into the Edwin Gray "radiant energy" motor and shows a lot of photos and patents of Gray and Tesla. He does not, however, explain what "radiant energy" or "cold electricity" is and you can't really build anything from the info. BTW, the "lost/suppressed/etc" Gray motors have been found and they don't work. I spent about a year of my life screwing around with the Gray motor stuff and never got anything worthwhile. So this one is is on a par with Vassillatos' book IMO.
Free Energy Secrets of Cold Electricity

Floyd Sweet's VTA/SQA was said to produce circuits that ran cooler than the ambient temperature. He doesn't mention "cold electricty" but I included it here because of the reported cooler running circuits. I looked at the VTA/SQA for a while and gave it up because no one knew how the magnets were "conditioned". I've since found more info on that and am looking into it again. But again, there's no plans that would enable you to build a working device. There are schematics and photos. If the magnets could be figured out it might be reproducible.
Nothing Is Something by Floyd Sweet

The important part of the following video is the talk about the "magnetic bubble". Please let me know if you see anything else that stands out to you.
VTA semi-successful replication (a few seconds)

IMO, Tom Bearden has some interesting comments on how the Sweet VTA works. He's calling it "negative energy" rather than "cold electricity".
Secrets of Sweet activation and related information

I'm pursuing the "magnetic bubble" info in regard to the Hendershot generator. It probably won't turn into anything because the Hendershot device doesn't use a barium ferrite magnet as far as I know although the armature was said to be "soft iron" which could be ferrite but I'm pretty sure it was Permalloy. It looks too thin to be ferrite and have the perimeter dimensions needed. A Permalloy armature attached to a radar magnetron magnet creates a sort of "magnetic bubble" in the center of the armature because the center pole of the magnet, which is the opposite polarity of the outer poles, is physically recessed away from the armature. The bubble shows up clearly under magnetic field viewing film. That's what got me interested in the VTA magnetic bubble. I don't however, remember seeing anything about cooler temperatures in regards to the Hendershot generator.

In the end I don't have anything helpful yet other than knowing a few things to avoid - Gerry Vassillatos, Peter Lindemann, Edwin Gray, and Peltier devices.
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Old 09-23-2015, 12:39 PM
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It seems that Gerry Vassilatos was the first to put forward the notion of cold electricity and his theory was not very strong. thx1138 thinks and says it is entirely imaginary. I would assume that he means the concept is empty and without foundation.
I think Vassilatos made up the phrase "cold electricity" as a marketing ploy to sell books. It's similar to Edwin Gray's "splitting the positive" and Peter Lindemann's use of the term "radiant energy" without explaining what it is. There may, indeed, be a phenomena that causes the circuit to be cooler than the ambient environment but it is not the electricity that is cold but the equipment.

Quote:
What apparatus should one construct to reproduce an endothermic result in a portion of a circuit involving high voltages?
Tesla noticed it when building Roentgen (X-ray) tubes. So that would be one device but it was a byproduct of the tube evacuation not a form of electricity. I think that may be the source of what Vassilotos twisted into "cold electricity".
On Roetgen Rays

Quote:
Or, is cold electricity another version of the Peltier effect, a version that does not require the use of semiconductors?
See above post. A Peltier device uses semiconductors but they are made of thermally conductive materials and it is the heat that is conducted rather than electricity. I think of it as the electricity heating the "gate" in a "thermal transistor" that allows the heat to flow from the source to drain.

IMO, "cold electricity" is a misleading phrase. Although we think of cold as the opposite of hot, cold is really just less hot so it's a relative term. I have some rural property where the water source is a windmill. In the 100F summer temperatures taking a shower under the windmill invokes screams from the "freezing" water. In the winter 30F temperatures the same water feels good because it is warm. The water is always 68F because it's from +200 feet below ground. The point is that it's the environment that changed temperature, not the water. Like Farmhand said, there's only one electricity.

Just thinking out loud here:
Typically, we hear that shorting the circuit causes ice to form on the wires at the point of contact and that is a manifestation of "cold electricity".

Evaporation is a cooling process. When the refrigerant in an air conditioning system expands (evaporates) in the expansion coil it cools the metal of the expansion coil from the inside out. That, in turn, cools the air passing over the expansion coil by absorbing the heat in the air and in the process causes condensation of the water vapor in the air on the outer surface of the expansion coil. If there is insufficient air flow through the evaporator coil to carry away the cooled air, the water accumulated on the evaporator coil will continue to cool until it freezes, further reducing the air flow until the entire evaporator coil is a block of ice.

So the question is, how can we use electricity to cause evaporation near the surface of the wire sufficient to cause icing? Typically, there wouldn't be much air flow over the wire in a lab or shop. High voltage, high frequency electricity may play a role here because it would be on the surface of a bared wire exposed to the air and using the right frequency might disassociate some chemical in the air to be the equivalent of evaporation. Tesla's use of HV, HF electricity in the "On Roetgen Rays" article sort of reinforces this idea although it was the gas in the Roetgen tube that was being "evaporated". But also note that it was a localized effect just around the electrode which would be similar to the exposed end of a wire.

Am I blubbering again?
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Old 09-23-2015, 03:10 PM
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Thanks for the additional input.
There is no consensus. It would be nice if someone could step forward and say in positive terms what it is, when it occurs, how to produce it or the circumstances in which it appears. I don't really care about empty conjecture and speculation regarding how all these conventional terms converge and possibly produce cold electricity. I am not searching for cold electricity because I have pretty much told you what I think it is. I want to know how to build an experiment in which something unusual will be manifested. I thought cold electricity might be the project I am looking for.
From what I have seen, many people throw terms around like 'cold electricity' or 'radiant energy', etc. often without having any real idea what they are talking about.

The closest thing that I can recall reading about that mentioned 'cold electricity' in a way that made some sense to me was in regards to Floyd Sweet's devices, if I recall correctly now. From what I recall, it was mentioned that Floyd Sweet's device would actually show a notable drop of temperature in part or parts of the driver device, indicating that it was either producing electricity in an unusual way, or it was producing an unusual form of electricity. Whatever was going on, the device could still power conventional loads like light bulbs and motors, but it was mentioned that this electricity had some unusual properties. Floyd Sweet, who by all accounts was a highly educated man with a high degree of technical expertise, apparently never fully revealed how his devices worked, and he may have deliberately mislead people sometimes to help keep his secrets from getting out to others. He appears to have taken his secrets with him to the grave.

Based on the above, I think that 'cold electricity' is something which when being produced causes parts of the generator or circuitry to become quite noticeably colder than the surrounding environment, as opposed to ordinary electricity which causes heating in wires and components due to resistive or other types of losses in the circuitry or device. This 'cold electricity' may have other unusual properties as well. I personally have not seen any video demonstrations of any claimed over unity devices in recent years where this sort of cold electricity effect has been demonstrated, although I have come across a claim or two that mentions a similar type of effect.

I would also be interested in hearing of any experiments or video demonstrations that may demonstrate this type of effect in regards to over unity devices.

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Old 09-23-2015, 03:35 PM
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Here is an excerpt describing the 'cold electricity' effect that Floyd Sweet's devices were
supposed to show, as described by some witnesses:

" Some observers of the light emanating from ordinary 120 volt
100 watt incandescent bulbs powered by the VTA claim the light is
different, softer, than normal incandescent light. The VTA
magnets and coils when powering loads of over a kilowatt become
cold and temperatures of 20 degrees Fahrenheit below ambient have
been observed. Similar reports of below ambient temperature of
energy machine components have been reported by other inventors,
such as John Bedini and John R.R. Searl.

When the VTA output wires had been accidentally shortened,
first an extremely brilliant flash occurred. When the wires in-
volved were examined shortly afterward, they were found covered
with frost. Unfortunately this also caused the VTA magnet to
fracture and the machine ceased operating. In one instance the
machine operation ceased during a local earthquake. The physical
shacking was not believed to be sufficiently severe to disrupt
the machine magnet/coil relative placement or physical shock to
the magnet such as a hammer blow might impart. The best specula-
tion is that the machine was affected by the intense electromag-
netic pulse known to originate from earthquakes. "

Excerpted from:
FLOYD SWEET'S VTA UNIT by Walt Rosenthal
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Old 09-23-2015, 07:59 PM
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wayne.ct

Tesla and Dollard might be some credible sources if you can agree with these interpretations of their work.

Many believe that this different form of power appears after the capacitor or capacitive effect in the circuit. Or in simplest words, dielectric power.

Effects of Tesla’s Cold Electricity and Radiant Energy in Hairpin Circuit
Tesla’s “hairpin circuit” produces cold electricity using radiant energy. Cold electricity is what Eric Dollard would call a pure dielectric field and is also produced in a properly constructed and tuned Tesla coil. It is constructed with a spark gap or other disruptive/polarizing device and capacitors to the other part of the circuit which is only connected through capacitors. Extremely high voltages and frequencies are perfectly safe to handle in this circuit. The circuit or even loads can be shorted and continue to work. Loads only need to be connected by one wire. Power consumption decreases when a load is applied due to radiant energy. Radiant energy is produced generally by a high voltage capacitive discharge that is interrupted.

https://markzive.wordpress.com/2013/...irpin-circuit/

I love the subject matter wayne.ct. But for every 1 person that accepts this simple way to manifest cold electricity, 10 people will come out of the weeds and give you competing explanations.

Even though Tesla and Dollard (and lets not forget Lindemann) have weighed into the subject, the prevailing social interpretation is that Cold Electricity doesn't exist.

My last comment on this...I believe that once the threshold of cold electricity is produced, it is not the only force or power produced by the circuit. So most would prefer to stay with their interpretation of which elephant they see, and leave it at that.
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Old 09-23-2015, 08:47 PM
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Manipulating magnetic flux

Any time you have a coil of wire and a changing current through the wire you have a situation where the magnetic flux is changing. What I don't know and would like to find out is what is happening and what can be made to happen. If instead of having resistance losses I should find I have the opposite taking place, I suppose I could call that negative resistance or cold electricity, but I don't know yet how to make that happen.

The video of Mike Watson and Don Watson (no relation) was interesting in that they both seemed to say that they had partially duplicated Floyd Sweet's VTA. The magnetic "bubble" is a region on a surface of a magnet or other material where a circular north area surrounds a south region. (or vice versa?) It seems that you have to magnetize your own barium ferrite materials to get the necessary polarization. That is something I have not tried to do. I don't know that I am going to go that route any time soon, but I might.

In any case, the video of the two Watsons had some basic construction information. To me, it all seems related to manipulating the magnetic flux. I have built a device that was intended to let me manipulate the magnetic flux. I took some measurements and looked at the voltage induced in the secondaries, but I have more experiments to do with that particular arrangement. I suppose I'll get some answers eventually. So far, everything seems to act like a fairly normal transformer but with some unusual voltage spikes.

Very few people are willing to tell exactly how to do what they did, especially if they think they have something revolutionary. If they do claim to have something, they try to conceal the secret of how they got it to work. I suppose they think they are going to get rich if they hide their discoveries.
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Old 09-23-2015, 09:04 PM
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Extremely high voltages and frequencies are perfectly safe to handle in this circuit. The circuit or even loads can be shorted and continue to work. Loads only need to be connected by one wire. Power consumption decreases when a load is applied due to radiant energy.
I'm not ready to risk my life on something I don't understand but i would like to build a device where I can add some loads and use less power at the same time. In fact, that is what I am working on now without much success so far.
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Old 09-23-2015, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidE View Post
Tesla and Dollard might be some credible sources if you can agree with these interpretations of their work.

Many believe that this different form of power appears after the capacitor or capacitive effect in the circuit. Or in simplest words, dielectric power.

Effects of Tesla’s Cold Electricity and Radiant Energy in Hairpin Circuit
Tesla’s “hairpin circuit” produces cold electricity using radiant energy. Cold electricity is what Eric Dollard would call a pure dielectric field and is also produced in a properly constructed and tuned Tesla coil. It is constructed with a spark gap or other disruptive/polarizing device and capacitors to the other part of the circuit which is only connected through capacitors. Extremely high voltages and frequencies are perfectly safe to handle in this circuit. The circuit or even loads can be shorted and continue to work. Loads only need to be connected by one wire. Power consumption decreases when a load is applied due to radiant energy. Radiant energy is produced generally by a high voltage capacitive discharge that is interrupted.

I love the subject matter wayne.ct. But for every 1 person that accepts this simple way to manifest cold electricity, 10 people will come out of the weeds and give you competing explanations.

Even though Tesla and Dollard (and lets not forget Lindemann) have weighed into the subject, the prevailing social interpretation is that Cold Electricity doesn't exist.
Why don't you ask Eric if your interpretation of his and Tesla's work is correct? Don't forget to make it clear that you're talking about the "hairpin circuit" which Tesla described in terms of impedance phenomena. He might be around to give you an answer today.

Eric Dollard
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Old 09-24-2015, 12:39 AM
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Oh ****... dR-Green is here.

That will suck the ether out of any room.




Go for it friend, the cut and paste buffer is ready for you.
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Old 09-24-2015, 01:41 AM
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Originally Posted by wayne.ct View Post
Any time you have a coil of wire and a changing current through the wire you have a situation where the magnetic flux is changing. What I don't know and would like to find out is what is happening and what can be made to happen. If instead of having resistance losses I should find I have the opposite taking place, I suppose I could call that negative resistance or cold electricity, but I don't know yet how to make that happen.

The video of Mike Watson and Don Watson (no relation) was interesting in that they both seemed to say that they had partially duplicated Floyd Sweet's VTA. The magnetic "bubble" is a region on a surface of a magnet or other material where a circular north area surrounds a south region. (or vice versa?) It seems that you have to magnetize your own barium ferrite materials to get the necessary polarization. That is something I have not tried to do. I don't know that I am going to go that route any time soon, but I might.

In any case, the video of the two Watsons had some basic construction information. To me, it all seems related to manipulating the magnetic flux. I have built a device that was intended to let me manipulate the magnetic flux. I took some measurements and looked at the voltage induced in the secondaries, but I have more experiments to do with that particular arrangement. I suppose I'll get some answers eventually. So far, everything seems to act like a fairly normal transformer but with some unusual voltage spikes.
The discussion about Floyd sweet's device reminded me of the following. It took me a while to find it again. Although this uses some special materials, it seems relevant but it's not about electricity. They use permanent magnets.
Magnets used for cooling

The magnetic bubble is interesting and the following link shows how to make one but it destroys the equipment that makes the bubble. The Watsons were talking about using pulses at 60 Hz to make their bubbles so that definitely wouldn't have been destructive like Russ Greis' shown at the link. His was just a one-shot attempt with materials on hand. There is a photo of the bubble in the Permalloy Hendershot armature under magnetic field viewing film further down in the thread. There's also a Sweet VTA schematic there.
Successful Replication of "Polymagnets"
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Old 09-24-2015, 03:08 AM
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Electricity and Magnetic Flux

We seem to be drifting off topic. I wonder if anyone else has a cogent definition of cold electricity. Conventional physics seems to posit a direct connection between electricity and magnetism. Specifically, if you have a "flow" of electrons a magnetic field instantaneously appears, i.e. it propagates faster than c. Likewise, if magnetic flux strength changes (and a conductor is present) electrons instantaneously experience a force and start to move. This is also faster than light. All this totally confounds Einstein. I'm not sure this relates to cold electricity. But, if you think it does, please explain where I am going wrong. Please be direct and explain as simply as is consistent with logic.

If you need a multi-pole magnet and a Floyd Sweet energizing coil, that seems reasonable, but I guess the technology is still not discovered and/or is not out in the open. It seems that the best definition of cold electricity is electric potential and hot electricity is electric current. I.e. cold electricity is volts or EMF. "hot" electricity is amps or electron flow.

Perhaps "hot" electricity is diamagnetic and cold electricity is dielectric? This seems to be related to Eric Dollard's view. If you think you understand the four-quadrant theory and you think it is related to cold electricity, please explain.
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Old 09-24-2015, 02:33 PM
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As I stated... Tesla, Dollard or Lindemann may be a good source for an updated interpretation of Cold Electricity. We do have quotes from long dead inventor Tesla, which are not always interpreted as meant, its always a best guess in that regard. And the live ones must be willing to come forward to gives us a hint as to how they see it.

Otherwise, flavor of the day will in time cause this thread to turn gray with infinite variations.

An interesting note that is VERY on topic is that many weather stations have now began to add to their weather graphics positive and negative lighting strikes. This may be a big clue as to the yin and yan of electricity type.

One question to Mr. Infinite Impedance dR-Green. Does Cold Electricity exist and what are its properties? Here is your opportunity to add value to the thread (over and above trying to displace my posts). Go ahead, I am all ears.
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Old 09-24-2015, 03:52 PM
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wayne.ct

As I stated... Tesla, Dollard or Lindemann may be a good source for an updated interpretation of Cold Electricity. We do have quotes from long dead inventor Tesla, which are not always interpreted as meant, its always a best guess in that regard. And the live ones must be willing to come forward to gives us a hint as to how they see it.

Otherwise, flavor of the day will in time cause this thread to turn gray with infinite variations.

An interesting note that is VERY on topic is that many weather stations have now began to add to their weather graphics positive and negative lighting strikes. This may be a big clue as to the yin and yan of electricity type.

One question to Mr. Infinite Impedance dR-Green. Does Cold Electricity exist and what are its properties? Here is your opportunity to add value to the thread (over and above trying to displace my posts). Go ahead, I am all ears.
Preventing disinformation is adding value. Of course, depending on one's intention.

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Go for it friend, the cut and paste buffer is ready for you.
I would be liable to misrepresent you as I have no motive to do otherwise. You should represent yourself. I already know what the answer is going to be. And I suspect you do too, which is why you won't ask the question.
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